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Goodpart posted:A not-insignificant amount of primary school teachers "just love kids" and will announce it at every given opportunity as if it's their most important qualification. Day loving one of uni in a b.Ed and you're doing the stupid meet and greet bullshit, the question gets asked: "Why do you want to be a teacher?" -- the response from the primary school lot was exactly what you'd expect, and almost all of them were denser than a second coat of paint. Ironically this is one of the understated qualities of a good teacher. You kind of have to be a bit dumb, and willing to put up with a lot of bullshit 'for the kids'. If you are getting into education with a respect for knowledge and a desire to provide rich learning experiences (as described in something like the Quality Teaching Framework), then you are setting yourself up for a lot of pain as novice teacher. I felt really bad whenever I resorted to using a more traditional textbook based approach (which was all the time). When I discovered that veteran teachers spent their holidays coming up with one or two sets of quality lessons, I felt less bad about myself and more frustrated with the profession of teaching. I understand the motivation behind a personality test to weed unsuitable teachers out, but I can't see it working in practice. It is pretty easy to bullshit out the qualities of a good teacher (which you constantly hear from lecturers or at an open day sales pitch). The sort of personality problems that might get picked up on a personality test (poor communication/English skills) will almost certainly manifest when the student undertakes a prac. In other words, it seems like a personality test is attempting to band aid problems associated with how practicums are rubber-stamped, instead of being used for their intended purpose.
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Jan 24, 2016 04:52
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re: teachers, pay them more and let the market work out who the better teachers are
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Jan 24, 2016 05:52
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That doesn't justify being an astoundingly lovely teacher (and believe me, I've had my share of those). I was the kind of student who didn't mind learning out of books, but if you're just a straight up horrible person or don't know your subject then no amount of teacher training is going to make you better. Allow me to tender the following examples: A maths teacher who showed her work, but the work was all wrong An English teacher who couldn't pronounce 'Mahatma Gandhi' properly and didn't know the man's real first name (we were discussing quotations from him, so it was rather relevant) and got extraordinarily pissy with me when I corrected her A Geography teacher who didn't know anything about the Balkan States PE teachers who cared only about football and literally nothing else A History teacher who tried to have me expelled just for being autistic, despite me doing nothing wrong besides forgetting to hand in an assessment Any kind of teacher who pretends bullying isn't a thing or doesn't matter Remember, students have to contend with bullshit too.
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Jan 24, 2016 05:54
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No see you've conflated resilence with being stupid, and that's part of the problem. The best teachers are intelligent, intuitive and care deeply about the job, but also have a thick enough skin to deal with the bullshit associated with being in a school -- of which there is a lot. But EVEN THEN, the ones who are otherwise suited for the job that don't make it are a combination of poorly supported, poorly resourced, poorly coordinated, bullied, chronically underappreciated, overworked, or just loving mismanaged. I can safely say that I left due to at least five of the above, and I've been told since that they're still trying to patch the hole I left there six months ago. The real problem is the crowd of teachers who are dumb, lead by dumb people, working with dumb people. They get into this awful holding pattern of being the warm body in the seat, offering literally nothing, just loving happy to be there because it's secure work and the holidays are only X weeks away. The school meets its standards because of the swans who furiously paddle around these barnacles, and amusingly, they're usually the contracted workers that the school can't justify keeping at the end of the year. You may think this is only the case in the worst schools but they're frighteningly common. The executive tends to get along well with the warm body sorts because they're unchallenging and unflinchingly obedient, so in return they're held to account far less. The real proof is out of the mouths of babes. The kids know what's up. Pracs only weed out the worst of it; anyone who is functional but disordered will make it through with ease. I wholeheartedly support a personality test and a rigourous aptitude test on the proviso that the department compensates successful applicants more adequately; else it's just slashing the job market to reduce overflow in the name of "quality control". Like, you're talking about the education and wellbeing of an entire generation of kids here. You don't gently caress with that. To wit, the primary lot would be hacked to pieces if it happened because the quality of teachers (and human beings) tends to skew at least a little more favourably in high schools. That's not to say there aren't great primary teachers or poo poo secondary ones, but anyone who's been through a b.Ed course or similar knows what's up. Goodpart fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 06:01
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Birb Katter posted:re: teachers, pay them more and let the market work out who the better teachers are That's actually a nice design imo
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Jan 24, 2016 06:01
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I think the main problem is that the school system in general is fundamentally broken. It was created by idiots with a ridiculous amount of false assumptions centuries ago, it needs a total overhaul
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Jan 24, 2016 06:11
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Jan 24, 2016 06:19
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This is just ambiguous, are you crying for the flag, are you crying because the UPF guys don't know that the Betoota Advocate is satire or both?
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Jan 24, 2016 06:23
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It brings up a good theory: if you throw in a symbol for everyone to be proud of, what's the inevitable protesting rear end in a top hat going to actually do? Will they burn a flag that also has their favorite symbol on it?
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Jan 24, 2016 06:28
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Birb Katter posted:This is just ambiguous, are you crying for the flag, are you crying because the UPF guys don't know that the Betoota Advocate is satire or both? death of the author, interpret my single smiley as you will (it's because the UPF guys are inhumanly stupid - even if you'd never heard of the Betoota Advocate, to read that as anything other than satire you would have to be a paranoid, poorly educated knee-jerk reactionary who genuinely believed that Aboriginals and Moslems were banding together to usurp the country from its legitimate white owners)
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Jan 24, 2016 06:29
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Lets just make the flags out of asbestos, problem solved.
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Jan 24, 2016 07:08
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Goodpart posted:No see you've conflated resilence with being stupid, and that's part of the problem. The best teachers are intelligent, intuitive and care deeply about the job, but also have a thick enough skin to deal with the bullshit associated with being in a school -- of which there is a lot. Besides that I agree with your conclusions. I'm not a teacher, but I know enough of them. I'm a parent in the process of moving a family between schools based on a degraded learning environment. On reflection I've concluded that people can be wilfully blind to a teacher's ability due to emotional ties children have to thier friends. Teaching might be a different without that, but you obviously can't escape it.
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Jan 24, 2016 07:32
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Trapezium Dave posted:Lets just make the flags out of asbestos, problem solved. Would give this a lot more relevance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceWKrsJX9N4
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Jan 24, 2016 07:39
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drat that Stan Grant video is powerful stuff, required viewing.
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Jan 24, 2016 07:50
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Amethyst posted:drat that Stan Grant video is powerful stuff, required viewing. No-one make any jokes about it.
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Jan 24, 2016 07:51
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Starshark posted:No-one make any jokes about it. Shut the gently caress up you petty piece of poo poo.
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Jan 24, 2016 07:55
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Amethyst posted:drat that Stan Grant video is powerful stuff, required viewing. Yeah, he didn't pull any punches.
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Jan 24, 2016 07:58
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Starshark posted:No-one make any jokes about it. Amethyst posted:Shut the gently caress up you petty piece of poo poo. Don't even joke about making jokes about it apparently
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Jan 24, 2016 07:59
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How many 64ths indigenous is Stan Grant?
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Jan 24, 2016 08:02
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We also shouldn't be conflating personality here with actual aptitude. Personality, by it's own definition, doesn't change much at all during adulthood which means if you are filtering specifically for certain personality traits which are stable and express themselves in some form over a variety of situations. The issue here is that while personality is important, there's other key factors (knowledge, ability) which can heavily influence teaching ability. I haven't done a search, but I'll see if I can fond any studies conducted on "the teaching personality" or whatever. Finally, unless you are going to unleash something along the lines of the MMPI-2, then you are going to have to consider whether the test is too easy to "read" (and therefore game). This last point is crucial, the more that is riding on the personality test, the more people will attempt to answer in the way which makes them look the best. I'm really agreeing with open24hours posted:You're making a good case for reform then. Maybe make it a four (five?) year degree? Smegmatron posted:It's already six years if you do a B.Ed/B.Whatever combined or B.Whatever/M.Teach. I think you can wrap it all up in four and a half if you do a 3 year bachelors and a graduate diploma. here because it does appear that reform is needed, although I am questioning whether the focus should be on personality, or whether it should focus on ability and aptitude.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:04
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Graic Gabtar posted:At the risk of being indelicate, most of the issues you describe could pretty much be applied to any industry. Unless you are connected to the teaching game this may be regarded as a bit 'meh' to some people. Plenty of industries have stupid people doing stupid things, but if someone who sits at a desk all day half-asses their job for years on end, it hurts their employer and maybe some associated entities. If one teacher half-asses it for about a year, 30-150 kids get screwed out of a decent education not just for that year, but also for the following years because they've missed out on important foundational skills. If half a school is half-assing it for five years, you've basically screwed an entire cohort out of a chance at any sort of social mobility.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:08
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Laserface posted:How many 64ths indigenous is Stan Grant? Aborigines: You will always have to justify your racial heritage.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:09
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loving lmao man. Glad I don't need to click the "aboriginal memes" facebook page when I can just come to the auspol thread for the same racist jokes, only with a thin veneer of irony and """""humor""""
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Jan 24, 2016 08:13
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Starshark posted:Aborigines: You will always have to justify your racial heritage. You dont have to, but I think its OK to ask someone what their ancestry is.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:21
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Amethyst posted:loving lmao man. Glad I don't need to click the "aboriginal memes" facebook page when I can just come to the auspol thread for the same racist jokes, only with a thin veneer of irony and """""humor"""" I don't like you or your peoples, you dance funny and your music is bad. You are very right in this case though, this is /pol reject edgetroll here today.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:21
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Laserface posted:You dont have to, but I think its OK to ask someone what their ancestry is. Hmm, and why were you asking about Grant's ancestry I wonder 
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Jan 24, 2016 08:23
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Laserface posted:How many 64ths indigenous is Stan Grant? If you'd watched the actual video then you would actually know more about his heritage. watch the video.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:24
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Starshark posted:Hmm, and why were you asking about Grant's ancestry I wonder You know you could have just answered 32.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:31
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Laserface posted:You know you could have just answered 32. Andrew Bolt account spotted
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Jan 24, 2016 08:34
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Starshark posted:Aborigines: You will always have to justify your racial heritage. Non-Aborigines: You will always have to justify your respect for racial heritage.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:34
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Jesus. It's definitely me who ruins the thread, and not the above idiots.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:36
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Smegmatron posted:Plenty of industries have stupid people doing stupid things, but if someone who sits at a desk all day half-asses their job for years on end, it hurts their employer and maybe some associated entities. Yeah, well teaching unions obviously don't see it that way.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:37
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Amethyst posted:Jesus. It's definitely me who ruins the thread, and not the above idiots. Amethyst posted:drat that Stan Grant video is powerful stuff, required viewing. Seriously, posting provocative stuff like 'this video that shows how racist australia really is' was just asking for trouble. Or you're right. Could go either way.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:41
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Amethyst posted:Jesus. It's definitely me who ruins the thread, and not the above idiots. I asked a pretty simple question to get a rise. you just behave like a oval office. Theres a difference.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:41
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Recoome posted:I am questioning whether the focus should be on personality, or whether it should focus on ability and aptitude.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:42
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Birb Katter posted:re: teachers, pay them more and let the market work out who the better teachers are That's a pretty sick flag design, would take it over the current one
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Jan 24, 2016 08:46
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Goodpart posted:In a profession like teaching, those three things are intertwined and inseparable. The focus should be on all of the above. I agree, it'd be the best solution.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:46
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Brown Paper Bag posted:That's a pretty sick flag design, would take it over the current one Right? Make that a solid yellow sun and even out the heights of the horizontal colours so they're all the same and it's a really good flag. The southern cross is in a weird position though, can't think of where that should go straight away
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Jan 24, 2016 08:52
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Knorth posted:Right? Make that a solid yellow sun and even out the heights of the horizontal colours so they're all the same and it's a really good flag. The southern cross is in a weird position though, can't think of where that should go straight away Put a black southern cross in the sun.
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Jan 24, 2016 08:55
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Knorth posted:Right? Make that a solid yellow sun and even out the heights of the horizontal colours so they're all the same and it's a really good flag. The southern cross is in a weird position though, can't think of where that should go straight away Make the moon and star be a moon and souther cross
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Jan 24, 2016 08:55
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