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Yes, but why male models? 
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Feb 2, 2016 19:35
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Yes, but why male models? your mom was all he had to work with.
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Feb 2, 2016 19:36
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Yes, but why male models? How easy would it have been to get a woman to be nude (or near nude) for an old man in the rennaisance that wasn't a prostitute? Real question.
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Feb 2, 2016 19:41
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FreudianSlippers posted:It's pretty neat how Robert Newton really exaggerating his own accent for a film role could make that accent iconic and synonymous with piracy. Like imagine if Newton had been from Glasgow. All pirate movies would have subtitles in America. I'm not sure that's strictly true. Although he was West Country (Dorset, in fact. Which I know because he's from the same small town as me and has the same first/surname. Weird) the standard rural Dorset accent isn't that pirate. I was under the impression it was more Bristolian (which is quite distinctive) since so many sailed out of Bristol. Likely with a bit of Plymouth in the mix. Edit: had a look around, and some people suggest it came from Newton. Ehh. I would suggest the west Country accent is the closest we have to it, given that's where many were from. Perhaps that's why they cast him in the first place. Also I doubt he was exaggerating much. I come across people who speak like that a fair bit even these days. Roblo has a new favorite as of 20:12 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 19:41
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:As I recall, he simply preferred larger forms for his work. It might have been handy for art that's meant to be viewed at a distance (e.g. In the Sistine Chapel). Seems a weird explanation. It's not like scaling wasn't understood reasonably well back then.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:22
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Lord Lambeth posted:The can opener was invented 40 years after the tin can. And in some cases that was probably a good thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_beef_scandal
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Feb 2, 2016 20:26
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NLJP posted:Seems a weird explanation. It's not like scaling wasn't understood reasonably well back then. I think part of it was that the sculptors of the time (including ol' Mikey) were being heavily influenced by ancient Greek or Roman sculpture, which involved a lot of dudes. Greek sculpture in particular had a ton of naked athletes and there was this bit of belief that athletic young men were the most aesthetically pleasing thing ever. So, making a beautiful statue of a woman involved making it of an athletic young man with boobs stapled on. Another fun fact about Michelangelo; he was a cranky, angry jerk that absolutely nobody liked. One of the reasons there was a rivalry between him and Leonardo when they lived in the same city was because Leonardo was the polar opposite. If he had some extra cash laying around he'd sometimes head down to the market and buy birds just to let them go.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:26
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I think part of it was that the sculptors of the time (including ol' Mikey) were being heavily influenced by ancient Greek or Roman sculpture, which involved a lot of dudes. Greek sculpture in particular had a ton of naked athletes and there was this bit of belief that athletic young men were the most aesthetically pleasing thing ever. So, making a beautiful statue of a woman involved making it of an athletic young man with boobs stapled on. Oh yeah I mean I know nothing much about the subject but that's more or less what I thought. The scale thing was what I was saying seemed weird to me and probably not a good explanation. Still, not like classical sculpture was short of pretty celebrated female nudes.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:35
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ToxicSlurpee posted:
The Sixtine Chapel is also full of small gently caress yous to the various people he didn't like.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:36
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Roblo posted:I'm not sure that's strictly true. Although he was West Country (Dorset, in fact. Which I know because he's from the same small town as me and has the same first/surname. Weird) the standard rural Dorset accent isn't that pirate. I was under the impression it was more Bristolian (which is quite distinctive) since so many sailed out of Bristol. Likely with a bit of Plymouth in the mix. I'm pretty sure Long John Silver was meant to be from Bristol. So it's not unlikely that Newton's natural accent helped him get the job since he was from the same general region as the character he was playing. Though I'm pretty sure none of the previous film portrayals took the accent anywhere near as far as he did. The most famous pirate of all time* Edward "Blackbeard" Teach(or possibly Thatch) was also from Bristol. His flag was pretty cool:  It depicts a skeleton with a goblet in one hand and a spear in the other stabbing a bleeding heart. His flag ship was called Queen Anne's Revenge. It's not known exactly where the name came from but some have suggested that Teach was a veteran of the War of Spanish Succession, known as Queen Anne's War in the colonies. At very least it is likely that Teach was a Stuart loyalist. Teach seems to have been very aware that he as a pretty scary looking man with his bushy beard and broad shoulders and used this to his advantage to strike fear into his enemies. He would put lit fuses or matches on his hat to look extra scary during battle. However despite actively trying to look like a madman and having a spooky skeleton on his flag he seems to have been a pretty fair captain and treated his hostages fairly well and not been any more cruel or violent than his colleagues. Queen Anne's Revenge ran ashore in the spring of 1718 and was damaged beyond repair. The crew was dispersed and Blackbeard accepted a pardon only to return to piracy a few months later. Robert Maynard of the Royal Navy was then dispatched to hunt down Teach in November and managed to track down Teach only a few days later. Manyard had more men than Teach but no cannons. Teach sailed into shallower waters which were not much trouble for his smaller ship but caused Manyard's far larger ship to become stuck leaving him vulnerable to cannon fire. After a few volleys the pirates assumed there were only a handful of survivors and boarded the ship only to be met with several men that Maynard had ordered to take cover below deck. Teach and Maynard fought each other with such ferocity that Maynard's sword broke. Eventually Teach was killed but it took five shots and around 20 sword slashes to bring him down. His head was cut off and mounted on Maynard's bowspit Some other famous pirate flags: Edward England:  Richard Worley:  Emmanuel Wynne:  "Calico Jack" Rackham:  Henry Every:  Stede Bonnet:  Edward Low:  "Black Bart" Roberts:   Thomas Tew:  Walter Kennedy and/or Jean Thomas Dulaein:  John Quelch/John Phillips/?????  Christopher Moody  Some of these may be based on vague descriptions and largely guess work. *Non-fictional at least. I'm pretty sure more people know Jack Sparrow than Blackbeard. Henry Morgan might also give him a run for his money since he has a very popular rum named after him though I doubt most people that drink it are aware that the Captain Morgan in question was an actual person.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:16
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This is the flag I think is the best out of all of them. Black Bart & Death sharing a drink. Also if you're ever in the North Carolina area (I think it's near Ocracoke), you can go kayaking around the area that Blackbeard was caught and killed. It's pretty neat. There's a pretty good book I read a while back about the real pirates etc., I think it was called "Under the Black Sails" or something to that effect. Edit - Here it is - http://www.amazon.com/Under-Black-Flag-Romance-Reality/dp/081297722X Mekchu has a new favorite as of 22:41 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 22:38
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ToxicSlurpee posted:
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Feb 2, 2016 22:46
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I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been a HBO miniseries about the rivalry between them.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:53
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Another fun fact about Michelangelo; he was a cranky, angry jerk that absolutely nobody liked. Cellini liked him. But Cellini was himself a cranky, angry jerk (and cold blooded killer also), so birds of a feather maybe.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:34
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Michaelangelo also participated in art fraud by painting up a statue of his so that it looked like a Roman antique. He then sold it to a Cardinal Raffaele Riario for a hefty price. He got doubly trolled as karmic revenge, though, because a middleman cheated him out of the money and because after realising he'd been had, Riario was quite impressed by the work and invited Michaelangelo to Rome where he began working on a statue of Bacchus for the cardinal - only for Riario to say (after completion, of course) that he didn't really like it all that much and wouldn't buy it after all.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:55
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FreudianSlippers posted:I'm pretty sure Long John Silver was meant to be from Bristol. So it's not unlikely that Newton's natural accent helped him get the job since he was from the same general region as the character he was playing. Though I'm pretty sure none of the previous film portrayals took the accent anywhere near as far as he did. I believe it is an hour glass not a goblet. The symbolism of a time piece in these flags was essential as it was saying to the (hopefully) badly armed and manned merchantmen 'you have minutes before you don't have a choice in being attacked or not. Surrender.'
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Feb 3, 2016 00:20
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FreudianSlippers posted:"Black Bart" Roberts: If I remember my manual for Sid Meier's Pirates!, the ABH AMH stands for A Barbadian's Head and A Martinician's Head. He had a real hate on for Barbados and Martinique in particular.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:31
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System Metternich posted:Michaelangelo also participated in art fraud by painting up a statue of his so that it looked like a Roman antique. He then sold it to a Cardinal Raffaele Riario for a hefty price. He got doubly trolled as karmic revenge, though, because a middleman cheated him out of the money and because after realising he'd been had, Riario was quite impressed by the work and invited Michaelangelo to Rome where he began working on a statue of Bacchus for the cardinal - only for Riario to say (after completion, of course) that he didn't really like it all that much and wouldn't buy it after all. A cardinal wanted a statue of a Bacchus?
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Feb 3, 2016 00:38
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Saint James the Moor-Slayer, one of the great heros of the Reconquista, who arrived at the very last possible moment to save countless Christian lives from the vile Moors! A hero, a strong identifier of Spanish nationalism, and also the patron namesake of more than a few cities in the Americas (like Matamoros, literally, Moor Killer). Also, he's probably totally made up and a complete fabrication of the Renaissance.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:43
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WickedHate posted:A cardinal wanted a statue of a Bacchus? Before the Counter-Reformation catholic religious titles were often held or given to important people who didn't really give a gently caress about the church beyond the fact that it was a way to be powerful. Accounts of some of the popes from the medieval era are pretty much filled with accounts of heresy, hookers, massive orgies and heroic levels of alcohol abuse.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:41
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Following the Reconquista, the Spanish Jews were given the option of converting to Christianity or GTFO of Spain. The Jews that refused to covert and crossed the border into Portugal got enslaved by the portugese.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:42
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Jews and Spanish Muslims had a good relationship often times employing Jews as mercenaries or bodyguards
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Feb 3, 2016 01:52
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Present posted:Following the Reconquista, the Spanish Jews were given the option of converting to Christianity or GTFO of Spain. The Jews that refused to covert and crossed the border into Portugal got enslaved by the portugese. Most of them settled in the Ottoman empire where they had to pay a special tax, like all non-Muslims, but were protected under the law from persecution.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:01
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Before the Counter-Reformation catholic religious titles were often held or given to important people who didn't really give a gently caress about the church beyond the fact that it was a way to be powerful. Accounts of some of the popes from the medieval era are pretty much filled with accounts of heresy, hookers, massive orgies and heroic levels of alcohol abuse. Also the guys who gave us the word nepotism.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:20
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FreudianSlippers posted:Most of them settled in the Ottoman empire where they had to pay a special tax, like all non-Muslims, but were protected under the law from persecution. The Ottomans even had a military regiment in the fifteenth century, the "Sons of Moses", comprised of Jews expelled from Christian kingdoms who fought for the Sultan during the Ottoman's Balkan invasions.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:48
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Is it too late for more Chinese eunch facts? Imperial China's greatest explorer was a court eunuch! Zheng He had a hell of a fleet at his command. Eunuchs were incredibly powerful figures in the Forbidden City. They were allowed direct contact with the emperor and his concubines, and indeed many eunuchs befriended the royal concubines and engaged in the intrigues of the court. Bribery was another perk. Becoming an imperial eunuch could lift your whole family out of poverty, so many families scrambled to castrate their boys early in the hopes of improving their lot in life.   about the castration processThe "single stroke" is horrifying enough on its own. The recovery was also bad. The remaining urinary tract was plugged up while the wound healed. At the end of three days, the plug was removed. If urine flowed freely, the operation was considered a success. If not, the patient could expect to die soon. Eunuchs also kept their genitalia preserved and on their person at all times. The reasoning was that, if they died, they could be buried with their genitals to insure reincarnation as an intact man. The parents of the last eunuch, mentioned upthread, destroyed the preserved genitals during the Cultural Revolution.
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Feb 3, 2016 06:00
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Present posted:Following the Reconquista, the Spanish Jews were given the option of converting to Christianity or GTFO of Spain. The Jews that refused to covert and crossed the border into Portugal got enslaved by the portugese. Frequently even if you did convert you got accused of being a crypto-Jew and arrested anyway.
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Feb 3, 2016 06:45
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wait wait wait. Eunuchs had it all lopped off?? drat news to me
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Feb 3, 2016 06:48
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I always assumed that eunichs were somehow chemically castrated. I imagined getting a surgery like that would be pretty much a 1% success rate back then.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:08
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Just chop a dick and balls off you know some major bloodworks
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Feb 3, 2016 07:10
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I always assumed that eunichs were somehow chemically castrated. I imagined getting a surgery like that would be pretty much a 1% success rate back then. You basically doped them up with opium or alcohol and just do it.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:19
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SKELETON FRAT PARTY
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Feb 3, 2016 07:28
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RagnarokAngel posted:You basically doped them up with opium or alcohol and just do it. All I got was this jumpsuit, some nike trainers and a TNG box set.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:30
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I always assumed that eunichs were somehow chemically castrated. I imagined getting a surgery like that would be pretty much a 1% success rate back then. I've read that 50% would have been the expected contemporary rate with a skilled 'physician' but I can't recall my source at the moment - odds weren't great in any case. Surgical castration using methods that can be described as a single stroke makes perfect sense though. In a time before anesthesia surgeons felt that taking too long to operate was a form of barbaric cruelty since the patient would be aware of every little cut and movement (not to mention the medical implications of the patient going into shock) and medical practitioners were encouraged to work as quickly as possible. Working fast also limited exposure to pathogens and the like. There's that factoid lately floating around on the net of the surgery with a 300% mortality rate. In his haste to perform a speedy amputation a surgeon sliced into his assistant's fingers, leading his death, the death of the patient from the botched amputation and the death of someone nearby via heart attack/horror. That surgeon wasn't particularly incompetent either, to the contrary, he was very good by the standards of the time. hard counter has a new favorite as of 20:07 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 07:31
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hard counter posted:I've read that 50% would have been the expected contemporary rate with a skilled 'physician' but I can't recall my source at the moment - odds weren't great in any case. wouldn't want to be cruel to the men you're castrating.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:37
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Cumslut1895 posted:wouldn't want to be cruel to the men you're castrating. Well, there's mutilating the poor boy, and then there's drawing out the pain/suffering of the mutilation for longer than really is necessary. I mean, if you have to be castrated (*shudder*) would you rather want the cut to take a matter of seconds, or several long minutes? Not to mention the sooner you finish cutting up the poor child, the soon you can do your best to stop the loving bleeding. Also, I can totally see the surgeon, even a good one, slicing off his assistant's fingers. I remember reading an old Cracked articles (yes, yes, I know but sometimes they do genuinely interesting interviews) where they interviewed people who did autopsies. They said it's honestly surprisingly easy for a scalpel (which in ideal conditions is supposed to be crazy sharp) to slip and you cut your own finger, so I imagine it's a thousand times easier to slice into the fingers of someone else if you don't have a psychic link to know exactly where their digits are at all times. Doubly so in ye olden days where doctors didn't wear thick, often brightly covered rubber gloves so every digit poking into the wound would soon look like yet another piece of blood-soaked meat.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:44
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A White Guy posted:Saint James the Moor-Slayer, one of the great heros of the Reconquista, who arrived at the very last possible moment to save countless Christian lives from the vile Moors! A hero, a strong identifier of Spanish nationalism, and also the patron namesake of more than a few cities in the Americas (like Matamoros, literally, Moor Killer). There's also El Cid, hero of Spain's great chivalric epic The Lay of the Cid, a poem extolling the loyalty and virtue of El Cid as a great Christian hero. Even when he is unjustly treated by his king, El Cid's faith and trust in his liege never wavers. When El Cid is exiled on false charges, he still continues to fight on behalf of his liege against the Moors, eventually regaining his honor and titles through his stalwart defense of Christiandom. He sets the perfect example of an honorable Christian warrior, loyal to king and God unto death. The good news is that El Cid is definitely an actual historical figure who did indeed fight in the Reconquista... on the Muslim side. Whoops! After being told to gently caress off by his Christian lord, the historical El Cid turned around and hired himself out as a mercenary to the Muslims, who much admired him for his many successes against the Christians. Even the honorific title the Spanish gave him is adapted from the one the Moors gave him: al Sayyid. El Cid isn't the only chivalric hero who got a good dose of whitewashing. Over the border in France, the big epic chivalric poem is the Song of Roland, who soloed thousands of Muslims in a desperate rearguard action to protect Charlemagne's army as it retreated through the Pyrenees. At least Roland was fighting on the right side; however, there weren't any Muslims in the Pyrenees at the time. Charlemagne got bushwacked by Basques, who were really touchy about their territory and despite their Christianity weren't very happy about giant Frankish armies tromping around on their turf.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:50
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hard counter posted:I've read that 50% would have been the expected contemporary rate with a skilled 'physician' but I can't recall my source at the moment - odds weren't great in any case. Although it's highly fictionalized The Knick has some graphic depictions of the race against the clock type of surgical techniques and it's horrifying. At least they were up to the point where they knew about hygiene and sanitation.
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Feb 3, 2016 08:14
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e: wrong thread
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Feb 3, 2016 08:23
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syscall girl posted:Although it's highly fictionalized The Knick has some graphic depictions of the race against the clock type of surgical techniques and it's horrifying. I could see that. If you looked into the article I linked, there's some discussion of pre-hygiene surgery and it gets pretty  quote:"surgeons operated in blood-stiffened frock coats – the stiffer the coat, the prouder the busy surgeon",
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Feb 3, 2016 08:28
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