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It's hard to say what's not worthwhile. Like people bitch a lot about Penny, and not unrightfully but to say she's pointless is impossible. She could end up super important somehow, who knows.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:12
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Penny is the future Lady of Casterly Rock so I'd say she's somewhat important.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:16
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TOOT BOOT posted:Cliffhangers are exciting and give you something to talk about between books but the sheer length of time between books drives people crazy. I'm sure that's part of the reason why the fanbase is so hostile, it's intensely frustrating to have half the cast left on a cliffhanger for 5-10 years. It's been 11 years realtime since Brienne encountered Lady Stoneheart and for all we know she will die 5 chapters into TWOW. I hope she will. There's too many POV characters. That's a good place to trim the fat. I hope GRRM has an asteroid fall on her, Samwell, Dorne, Aegon, Penny, and every group with the word Company in the title. The other part of the hostility is that he never actually says it'll be 5 or 6 years. It's always that he's a few months from finishing. For example, right now. That makes people stick around and keep checking his blog for updates and well, you know how that goes.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:41
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They probably didn't need 3 POV characters to tell the story of Dorne. There's Ariannes big ol nips; Darkstar, Oakheart getting owned and then a good space by Doran. That's all the happened really
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Feb 2, 2016 21:54
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It's pretty epic GRRM immediately finished and wrote then released that WOW chapter where Arianne does gently caress all for 20 pages. Altho I guess it's understandable he can't release some better stuff without spoiling his book.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:56
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That was probably supposed to go near the end of ADWD and was cut along with the Winterfell and Meereen battles to rush the book out to coincide with season one. Or it was always supposed to be in TWOW but just written out of order, as you said it's uneventful so probably better placed at the start of a book than at the end (unlike those two battles.) GRRM said he spent something like 10 years writing and rewriting that Mercy chapter, sorting out the chronologies of a dozen different major storylines must be a nightmare. I wonder how ADWD would have looked if GRRM had spent even more months/years on it and if it had been edited more thoroughly, I think it would be the longest book in the series. Was Kevan always intended to be the epilogue character (was there even supposed to be an epilogue) or was that chapter hastily written to give the book a more definitive ending?
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Feb 2, 2016 22:16
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All I know for sure is I'll watch the ten part Netflix documentary published posthumously about the strange and unique writing habits of GRRM and about how the plot kept morphing and changing as he had to suddenly deal with Internet fans; massive popularity and an ongoing television series. I really do wonder what ASOIAF would look like written in a vacuum
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Feb 2, 2016 22:19
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Austrian mook posted:All I know for sure is I'll watch the ten part Netflix documentary published posthumously about the strange and unique writing habits of GRRM and about how the plot kept morphing and changing as he had to suddenly deal with Internet fans; massive popularity and an ongoing television series. I really do wonder what ASOIAF would look like written in a vacuum Probably would have been 3 books long and include the Arya/Jon/Tyrion love triangle he originally wanted. Like if he just sat down and hammered them all out with no input from editors and publishers and fans or whatnot.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:55
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GRRM has been dealing with creepy fans for way before ASOIAF got picked up by HBO. His wife was one of them.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:00
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Solice Kirsk posted:Probably would have been 3 books long and include the Arya/Jon/Tyrion love triangle he originally wanted. Like if he just sat down and hammered them all out with no input from editors and publishers and fans or whatnot. You jest but The WInds of Winter is going to end with Tyrion marrying Arya to secure Dany's hold of the north and Arya is gonna have a fling with Azor Ahai. It's still gonna happen
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Feb 2, 2016 23:07
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Arya is going to wind up dead with Needle in her hands just like Jon said in the first book or whatever. Hell, she might even be the faceless man that will eventually be hired to kill Alayne Stone or Sansa or whoever she is when she eventually takes over the Eyrie.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:21
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Or Daenerys, if Kindly Man decides to send in the protege for Valyrian dragon lord. It would make a (yet another) cliffhanger at the climax of TWOW.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:39
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Guys, guys, guys, I just had this weird loving thought: What if Jon Snow isn't actually dead for good. What kind of mind-gently caress for the audience would that be?!
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Feb 3, 2016 16:06
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Apoplexy posted:Guys, guys, guys, I just had this weird loving thought: What if Jon Snow isn't actually dead for good. What kind of mind-gently caress for the audience would that be?! I'm unconvinced. Can you rephrase this, possibly in the form of a 30,000 word essay?
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Feb 3, 2016 16:11
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Apoplexy posted:Guys, guys, guys, I just had this weird loving thought: What if Jon Snow isn't actually dead for good. What kind of mind-gently caress for the audience would that be?! That's just stupid. Even in fantasy people shouldn't just be brought back from the dead all the time. What kind of schlock garbage writing would that be?
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Feb 3, 2016 16:53
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Solice Kirsk posted:That's just stupid. Even in fantasy people shouldn't just be brought back from the dead all the time. What kind of schlock garbage writing would that be? Right?
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Feb 3, 2016 17:28
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Guys, wait, what if Jon was dead the whole time.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:15
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Shyamalan go home, don't you have twists to plan for new movies 
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Feb 3, 2016 18:32
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Basically Jon Snow is Goku and he's training with King Kai for his big fight against the Others before Melisandre wishes him back with the Dragon Balls.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:37
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Nerd.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:53
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More seriously, what do people reckon to Preston Jacobs theory that Quintin isn't dead?
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Feb 3, 2016 20:38
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OrthoTrot posted:More seriously, what do people reckon to Preston Jacobs theory that Quintin isn't dead? He may not be dead, but he'd certainly be well done. Quentyn "Cooked' Martell.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:52
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I just looked up that theory, and it seems insane to me. Unless I am misremembering terribly, the PoV during that scene is Quentyn himself, and he is narrating when he is barbecued. GRRM has certainly given us fake outs and misdirection before, but when a character is killed in their own PoV it's as close to solid as you can get. If he backtracks that then literally nothing in the narrative can be taken as truth and anything you want can be instead.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:54
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Quent doesn't actually die in his own pov chapter, he is critically injured and dies three days later as told in Barristan's chapter. Though it's definitely a crackpot theory.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:58
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I remember his "eyes boiling into pus" and the horrible agony of being Dragon BBQ bits, but not if he actually dies - it's been a couple years since I read ADWD. Regardless, when you're that hosed you won't enjoy your life, even if you survive.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:45
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People who believe the theory usually claim that Quentyn was engulfed in flame but suddenly developed a genetic fire resistance ("like Dany" they say, failing to understand that her fire resistance was a one time thing caused by magical interference, and that Targs aren't immune to fire) and successfully tamed a dragon ("because why else would the chapter be called 'The Dragontamer'?!"). They think the horrifically burned person who dies four days later in Barristan's bed is someone else and that the Dornishmen deliberately tricked Barristan into thinking it was Quentyn. The identity of the burned person is usually said to be either a random masked Brazen Beast or perhaps even the Tattered Prince because such a big deal is made about the latter's face being hidden. As for Quentyn, he's allegedly riding around on Viserion somewhere and will make his triumphant return during the Battle of Fire. Basically, they think this:  
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Feb 3, 2016 23:07
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I'm excited about Theon's storyline in the upcoming season because it'll be interesting to see how a PTSD-stricken eunuch regains some dignity in Ironborn society. j/k they're probably going to double-down on the humiliation.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:25
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There's no way Theon's missing dingdong doesn't come up if he tries to be king, what is he does when it doesn't work out for him though is beyond speculation. Maybe he will be king when Euron gets deposed.
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Feb 4, 2016 11:15
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I personally think it would be awesome if Theon kills Euron in S7. But I shouldn't get my hopes up, it'll probably be Dany.
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Feb 4, 2016 11:27
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The boat chick he hosed in season 2 will come back in a surprise twist holding his son and that will be his heir and they will crown him immediately
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Feb 4, 2016 11:39
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The only way Theon kills Euron is if he somehow manages to accidentally drop both of them into a volcano.
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Feb 4, 2016 11:42
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In It For The Tank posted:People who believe the theory usually claim that Quentyn was engulfed in flame but suddenly developed a genetic fire resistance ("like Dany" they say, failing to understand that her fire resistance was a one time thing caused by magical interference, and that Targs aren't immune to fire) and successfully tamed a dragon ("because why else would the chapter be called 'The Dragontamer'?!"). They think the horrifically burned person who dies four days later in Barristan's bed is someone else and that the Dornishmen deliberately tricked Barristan into thinking it was Quentyn. The identity of the burned person is usually said to be either a random masked Brazen Beast or perhaps even the Tattered Prince because such a big deal is made about the latter's face being hidden. As for Quentyn, he's allegedly riding around on Viserion somewhere and will make his triumphant return during the Battle of Fire. I thought her handmaiden going HOT WATER BURN BABY in the very first episode was foreshadowing her resistance to fire. I thought it was just that she was the true "blood of the dragon" vs. Viserys who just got owned as he was somehow deemed cosmically inauthentic in that he did not have the same resistance. "Targs=fireproof" is not what I think but rather that yeah, this one person is particularly special in this particular world... else we'd have no reason to give a toss and she wouldn't be a main character. Not crazy to say only one person has this ability in the same world whose physics disallow gunpowder. But Quentyn = so very dead. Three days dying. I guess the problem with writing so many fakeout deaths (and ACTUAL death followed by resurrection) is the audience is unable to come to terms when someone is really dead in the story. See: Syrio loving Forel* *e: I did enjoy that little bit of dialogue between Arya and the Hound that confirmed it. After that, those assholes just kinda got real quiet. 
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Feb 4, 2016 15:26
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Harold Stassen posted:I thought her handmaiden going HOT WATER BURN BABY in the very first episode was foreshadowing her resistance to fire. I thought it was just that she was the true "blood of the dragon" vs. Viserys who just got owned as he was somehow deemed cosmically inauthentic in that he did not have the same resistance. "Targs=fireproof" is not what I think but rather that yeah, this one person is particularly special in this particular world... else we'd have no reason to give a toss and she wouldn't be a main character. Not crazy to say only one person has this ability in the same world whose physics disallow gunpowder. the world's physics disallow gunpowder?
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Feb 4, 2016 16:03
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Harold Stassen posted:I thought her handmaiden going HOT WATER BURN BABY in the very first episode was foreshadowing her resistance to fire. I thought it was just that she was the true "blood of the dragon" vs. Viserys who just got owned as he was somehow deemed cosmically inauthentic in that he did not have the same resistance. "Targs=fireproof" is not what I think but rather that yeah, this one person is particularly special in this particular world... else we'd have no reason to give a toss and she wouldn't be a main character. Not crazy to say only one person has this ability in the same world whose physics disallow gunpowder. You can't really debate the Targ fire resistance / immunity poo poo anymore. GRRM said it was supposed to be a one time thing but then he put some more of it in the book such as her riding Drogon away after he melted her hair i.e. just missing a shot to the face and even mounting him was capable of giving burns. Show wise she has several total immunities like holding dragon eggs, etc. It's just one of those things that he hosed up writing wise like the UnKiss. Quent is definitely dead though. TommyGun85 posted:the world's physics disallow gunpowder? Yeah, GRRM has said the elements for gunpowder don't exist in their world.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:08
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sulfur, potassium and charcoal dont exist? what the loving gently caress is he talking about? dude sure does like to say things that make no sense instead of just admitting it doesnt exist because he doesnt want it to or hasnt been discovered yet.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:14
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He didn't go into details about it, but yeah it's totally about his desire to keep gunpowder out of the plot for ease of writing. Speaking from playing strategic Total War games I've always hated the era in which gunpowder units were added. It just destroyed my immersion in the game and suddenly everything had to revolve around gunpowder and your defense to said gunpowder. I think GRRM has specifically said the same thing, that he finds it too hectic or inelegant, I'm not sure. This is also the same guy who cared so little about authenticity for the main building of his series (the Wall) that he draaastically over built the thing and when the designers for the show showed him what actually the height he specified in the book he responded with "....I wrote it way too big!" He pretty much tries to keep to descriptive vague stuff when at all possible.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:21
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That's because gunpowder changed war drastically. It becomes your primary goal because it's simply the best.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:22
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Would The Hound with a primitive firearm be able to beat a mounted Ser Robert Strong
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Feb 4, 2016 16:27
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I wonder if that explains the fact that their society is stuck in the medieval era and can't seem to move on for hundreds of years. No cannons to make castle defenses irrelevant.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:27
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There also seems to be a major halt to technological development in the world for the past thousand or so years. I'm sure having a mini-ice age every 10 years doesn't help.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:28
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