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Quandary is cool and I will not relish crushing his army beneath my flashy armored foot.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:56
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ok new PMs distributed. There's still technically ~30 minutes until we meet my 24 hour window so here's hoping Spoonsy was just twiddling his thumbs and chaoslord is around and Ridonkulous is a fast reader
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Jan 7, 2016 20:00
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Chic Trombone posted:Ahaha I remember that game Yeah, this is not the first time I've played a woman in an Ecco game.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:02
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EccoRaven posted:ok new PMs distributed. There's still technically ~30 minutes until we meet my 24 hour window so here's hoping Spoonsy was just twiddling his thumbs and chaoslord is around and Ridonkulous is a fast reader Did what you asked of moi and told you so and telling you so here
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Jan 7, 2016 20:02
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EccoRaven posted:In what can only be described as serendipitous, both Quandary and Max PM'd me at the same time each snatching a different player. Hmmm!!!! 
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Jan 7, 2016 20:05
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Good choice, King.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:07
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Spoonsy posted:Did what you asked of moi and told you so and telling you so here You need to PM me! I am your thread leader.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:08
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Asiina posted:You need to PM me! he also needs to include his stats as a separate thing, not in his role PM! Gosh this is going to be a loooooong game isn't it
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Jan 7, 2016 20:11
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EccoRaven posted:he also needs to include his stats as a separate thing, not in his role PM! I also totally misspelled your name in my initial PM, which went nowhere, which is what the problem is.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:16
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Qal's people need to be liberated from the dark haze of unknowing, and become educated, like the good peoples of Arrentia.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:35
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I did the thing 
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Jan 7, 2016 20:41
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all we are waiting for is Ridonkulous. while that happens, this thread will be LOCKED, because I am going to save time and PM people their charisma items/level 4 stat bonuses/etc. I will post again with the game threads (though the enterprising among you can already find them). then this thread will be locked until post-game. hooray!
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Jan 7, 2016 21:00
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JOCASTA/MAX/GOOD THREAD: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3759143 QAL/QUANDARY/EVIL THREAD: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3759141 see you all on the other side!
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Jan 7, 2016 22:12
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 And just like that, he was gone. During the retreat from the massacre in the forest, Qal seemed to have just simply... disappeared. He did not burn in the flames, the soldiers saw him leave the forest safely, but it was like he was there, and then suddenly he was not. As if the world blinked, and with it, this mysterious figure passed away. All that remained was his staff, his cloak, and a small pile of books and journals written in a mysterious code. The staff would be disenchanted by the finest scientists in the Empire and studied; the books would be kept in the Archives at the Imperial University, accessible only to the royal family and scholars with reginal permission; and as for the cloak, it was given to Jocasta as a final trophy from what was at the time the hardest campaign she had ever fought. She kept it on a small hanger in her chambers until the day she died, where it was accidentally discarded by a funeral maid. With Qal gone, and with Bleh's troop devastated from the battle, they lifted the white flag of surrender. They laid down their weapons, dispelled their magickal auras and barriers, and allowed the Guard to put them in chains. Even though so few had survived the war, one tenth of them were still executed that night: the traditional Arrentish decimation after a victory, a sacrifice to the goddesses for their salvation. The rest of the captured soldiers, save for Bleh, were kept in chains and carted to cities throughout the Empire, along with however many Nemchek civilians could be found. As everything in the Empire inevitably does, they all found their way to Dromay, where Queen Krelo assembled a massive Triumph, showcasing the spoils of war and the Empire's sheer power. Above is part of a frieze depicting part of that triumph. You can see Krelo's youngest daughter, Prendota, standing on the royal chariot decked in flowers. She stands next to Dana dei Cappezzi, the so-called "Lord of Hats," a hero of the campaign as a confidant to Qal but secretly a double-agent in league with the Guard. Though lowborn, he was rewarded for his service with titles of nobility, a few ten thousand acres of fertile land in Mereaux, and a chance to get to know the lovely Prenny a little better. Their third companion is Prendota's bodyguard, dressed as the goddess Wisdom. Clemente "Bleh" Garcia, a Livireen mage and mercenary, was granted citizenship in exchange for his surrender. As a final act of loyalty his hands were severed, preventing him from using any magicks in the future. He was declared provisional governor over the ashen waste that was once the Black Woods of Nemchy - now called "Shapoy" in Arrentish texts. The Imperial custom of dismantling the local culture and replacing it with a model of their own was easy when it had been so brutally beaten and shattered. The surviving pockets of woods and groves were lifeless, devoid of the magicks which used to pulse and glow from the very pollen in the air. The few remaining villages in those woods were even more so, as its people bowed their heads, and began seventy generations of mourning. Jocasta survived the war, but was bitter that her mother ordered her into a dark forest surrounded by traitors and saboteurs with no support or warning. Jocasta rightly determined that Krelo wanted Jocasta to die gloriously in battle so Jocasta could never inherit the throne. Indeed, we all know about the disastrous Palace Coup after Krelo passed away, and how it nearly destroyed the entire Imperia. Perhaps ironically, Qal's journals were deciphered by Jocasta's sister, Zosia, which indirectly turned out to be what would save the Empire, ushering in the Triamulierate and the so-called Pax Jocaston. But that's a story for another day. If you're interested, take my capstone seminar next semester. Thus concludes the story of the Nemchek Campaign. It was an exciting time in Imperial history... but I can tell from your bored faces I've lectured long enough. Remember the exam is on the syllabus. Three hours, three essays selected from the seven questions I listed. Check your emails for the review class my TA is preparing, it should put you in a very good place for the exam. But as long as you study and took good notes, you shouldn't find yourselves "suck in the Hillsbog" as it were. Heh heh. Any questions? --- Ariadne meg-Tullain, Professor Emeritus, Imperial Military History, the University of Ravenwood.
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Feb 12, 2016 03:54
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THE GAME IS OVER QUANDARY A.K.A. "THE DARK WIZARD QAL" HAS BEEN DEFEATED MAX A.K.A. "THE PRINCESS JOCASTA" IS VICTORIOUS All town players in the Jocasta thread, and all scum players in the Qal thread, have won the game. All town players in the Qal thread, and all scum players in the Jocasta thread, have lost. And yet you all managed to play a month-plus long Soldiers game moderated by ECCO and not die in real life. I think in that sense, everyone is a winner. But in a more correct sense it's definitely the Joastas. Good work.
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Feb 12, 2016 03:55
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BELOW ARE LINKS TO THE SETUP THE MOD DOC THE SCUMDOCS AND THE DEAD DOC It's a LOOOOOOTTTTT of information to parse. I am tired of typing today, and so Asiina will field all of your specific questions. Everything is made public in the vain hope that someday someone might want to run a Soldiers game based on Tao's setup again. Note that this was a BETA, in that I was the literal dog from the internet when I made this setup. There were a LOT of things I would do differently if I could. A list of some of those changes are in the mod doc under the tab "v1.1". Many of my modding decisions can seem, even in a generous light, as "not very well thought out." I accept this. The biggest problem is the scum nightkill. It was very, very weak - there was not a successful death from the kill all game, e.g. This has been hashed out in the respective scumdocs (and then some more in the dead doc) at length. For the ten of you who survived the game, the long-short is, previous Soldiers games have had so many deaths that it's impossible for a town to win on its own merits alone - attrition wins the day, and it's a race over who dies last rather than who can win first. In my zealous attempt to extend the length of the game I may have gone a little overboard. Which might not have been a problem if the OP wasn't grossly misleading. This was not by design; I wrote the "the NK can kill so many people!!!!" part of the OP when I first was making the setup, and at the time that was a genuinely true statement, but at the eleventh hour I decided to lower the damage from the NK significantly (to the vanilla 5HP), which was just too far. The scum in both threads dislike how impotent they felt because of their lack of an effective nightkill. That's my bad. I apologize sincerely, and my patch to that mechanic was too little too late. Still, if I ran the setup again, I still would not keep it as a normal nightkill - rather it would be something pegged specifically to be devastating to a player, but not life-ending unless the target is already weakened (even slightly). That would closer capture what I intended the nightkill to "be" this game - not as a way to remove players directly, but rather a way to win through attrition, to help keep "confirmed" players out of battle (thus encouraging scum to get in), to weaken the power of healers, and to (especially mid to late game) become one of the most important factors in victory or defeat. The lack of an effective nightkill allowed the healers in the Jocasta thread (who seemed abundant but in truth it was mostly just Murmur Twin) to negate the NK's effects while still managing their wounded competently. This was the critical edge that allowed the Jocastas to eke out a victory, I feel, especially at the end when the Jocastas were at full health while the Qals were almost all hurt or wounded (or even maimed). Despite that, I was amazed at how close everything was. For most of the game the two threads mirrored each other's successes and failures very closely. Heck, the final battle only happened like it did because the Jocastas were absolutely surgical with their attacks (Asiina will write up about this later because it was just that impressive). Had that last battle gone a little differently, Quandary and Max may have met on the battlefield, and (especially with the right support), Quandary would probably have won (since Qal was designed to be the stronger fighter, and Quandary laid out his stats making him even stronger). Overall, despite many bumps, I thought this game was, well, something of a success. For me at least. It was absolutely exhausting. I am not sure if I'll ever run one again, and if I do I will need at least two more Asiinas to keep me sane. But I had fun reading it, and I hope, my setup problems aside, you all had some amount of fun playing it, too. I would be remiss though without taking some time to talk about Asiina. She was absolutely incredible to work with; she was kind and understanding, but also firm and not afraid to tell me when I was doing something dumb. She would cover my slack when I was unavailable without any complaints, and she did a drat great job handling her thread too. And it wasn't even her setup! She was just absolutely stellar. I cannot extol her praises enough, and I hope everyone else shares in the respect I have for her right now. There's a lot of other stuff but I have been typing almost nonstop for hours now and my fingers are very tired (I type with two fingers so it's just my indexes that are tired but the rest want to grab tacos and shove them into my mouth so they deserve a treat too). If you have stuck with me this far, then you deserve a treat. Here is the mod doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-p-qhkxC58W5UwqNHS6jEJ75pJZtZdapdTK5DS8qebk/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=664703568 The Jocasta scum doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YCHiVCyYF4el3iHVYURsDcVO2CtAKkQ69E83l9Aa-ns/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=2086284865 the Qal scum doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18eQX5tpRbNEjy9WU9NLD12NI-8KcULGiSmBW7BKVZMg/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=146618436 The dead doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hQS3rbimMluFVTDZijguTC5TnQCgInXeWppr_zwaONE/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0 And the single .txt file from which Asiina made the docs and into which I wrote the insanity that was this setup: http://pastebin.com/gDvjgmeV way late edit! all the lorebits: http://pastebin.com/X88RNm1E As a parting note in the past I have been known to get a little heated up in post-game discussions about balance, so I want to just say that, if you have any concerns or criticisms regarding the setup or my modding, I will address them in the following post: EccoRaven fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 03:55
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Feb 12, 2016 03:55
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I enjoyed the game immensely! Great game everybody!
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Feb 12, 2016 03:57
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CCKeane posted:I enjoyed the game immensely! Great game everybody!
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Feb 12, 2016 03:57
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yes
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Feb 12, 2016 03:59
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Really good game, it was fun all fellow Qalures
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Feb 12, 2016 03:59
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I am that bird irl atm making aglio e olio
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Feb 12, 2016 04:00
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kaschei posted:Thanks for running it, Ecco! And Asiina!! Seriously she deserves as many props as me if not more (after all she had to work with me, while I had to work with her; she clearly got the raw end of that bargain)
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Feb 12, 2016 04:00
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First things first, all credit to Max and his thread. No way around it, they outplayed us. They had the better scum play and the better townie play. I hate to admit it, but you guys earned this win. This game was simultaneously the most exciting, exhausting, thrilling, frustrating, and entertaining game I've ever been a part of. It's extremely exhausting feeling responsible for every town lynch, but equally exciting when it goes right. By far my best mafia moment of all time (which is a lot of mafia moments) was pushing so drat hard for that QPQ lynch, getting the lynch on scum, and then turning around and getting the 1-2 punch on merk and Opop. I don't know anything I'll ever do again in mafia is going to feel as good as that did. Likewise though, every time we lost a battle or mislynched I felt responsible, and it made things much harder. I think I went back and forth on every single battle ranks probably 50 times trying to do what I thought limited our exposure to scum (not that it mattered, because hats was a mainstay of the front line anyways). Overall a blast of a game that goes down as my favorite mafia game ever, but I would never in a million years want to be the king again. I would highly recommend everyone else volunteers if another Soldiers game were to be run again, though. Ecco; my employer will be sending you an invoice for 30-40 hours of work hours spent on this game, pay however is easiest for you. One thing I didn't really like was that I quickly learned I had to keep quiet with my own opinions because if I didn't everything I said was parroted almost immediately by both town and scum alike. That's why I adopted my general policy where I didn't do much but prod for content until the last day-ish of the deadline, and then began giving reads. I'm not sure it was the best way to go about it, but I think it probably was best to give the town some space to discuss with tainting their reads. As far as battle, as I'm sure you noticed my general strategy was to stick with what had worked in the past and with a notable exception (Hats) it worked pretty well. I go back and forth on thinking I should have subbed out injured people better to protect them, but I think that would have just ended in my putting in Opop or Merk or something which would have been worse. I don't know, all things considered I think I'm ok with how I managed who I put into battle with the information we had. If I could go back and change one thing though, I would have worked to make sure that everyone was more thorough in claiming what they did in battle. I think we could have outed hats, but I was too scared about giving Max information through claiming battle actions to realize how much information we were losing by not really claiming those actions. I was confident the game was going to be won on scumhunting, but that was only a part and in that sense I failed the thread. As far as scumhunting, it's not an excuse but I really do think we were hurt by the town. The majority of the town was fine and helpful, but there were a number of players that either were just shitposty or straight up MIA, as well as a number of mind boggingly poor actions by townies. Sinistral did whatever the gently caress he did that last day then dissapeared, Caps straight up slept through an entire battle phase, and imgay just did imgay things. It's definitely not an excuse, but I think it didn't help. Special shoutout to TNL - I was given two advisors and chose TNL and merk. I didn't talk to merk all that much except to grill him on why he was being so scummy and for him to tell me to put him in battle, but I talked to TNL a bunch before I did and I think talking to him helped me out a lot. I wish he would have lived longer, but I still want to make sure the thread knows how helpful he was overall. As for day actions, the moddoc will go into more detail, but essentially I had three actions. I had a 50% chance of getting an investigation, could get 4 items to distribute, or I could kill an advisor and gain all their health (this is which I did to merk, so I murdered him and moved my HP up to 20). I used the investigated 4 times and failed three of them (one on TNL and two on merk), with my one succesful investigation telling me imgay was town. I really wish that my investigations would have rolled better (especially on merk, finding out he was scum d2 would have been huge), but such is life I guess. To the scum team in Jocasta, despite you guys all getting killed I think you did the best that was possible in this sort of game where town get a HUGE advantage through battle of being able to out scum as well as confirm townies. It's a testament to our poor scum hunting that we didn't do quite as well. Also, to the mods (and everyone else), this really was a great game and I appreciate all the effort you guys put in. I got harsh and grumpy and yelly at points, but I promised that that was my competitiveness coming through because I wanted every advantage rather than any ill-will. I really do think the game was run extraordinarily well all things considered and appreciate all the effort. I know I missed a lot of things to talk about (like I said I have A LOT of thoughts about this game), but I'm happy to answer anything else people want to discuss. Great game to everyone, it was a blast and I'm looking forward to playing in mafia games with all of you in the future.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:00
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Hello, I really enjoyed this game from the perspective as one of the thread leaders. I realized I was playing a very different game from everyone else, so my experiences will differ. Thanks Ecco for running this game. I don't know how you did it with all the interacting parts, but congrats. Also, Hats for. overall MVP. He played a great game, through and through.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:00
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I had a great time, thanks a ton Ecco and Asiina! Now go read the Qal Scumdoc so you can watch me freak out over minor things.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:00
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Kaschei is the worst Qal town ever. If he hadn't sent in his OPG ability during the prelim phase, he could have changed it and I wouldn't have died. Of course, I could have cast armor on myself but being a Bish in the bog meant that nobody in the back row could target me and given the numbers in the OP, I wasn't expecting to be hit so hard by one single person. I knew Keane wasn't going to be attacking me and I thought hats was a ranged person who would hit the back row. Ecco actually did make a mistake because Jose never should have been able to target me.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:02
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Hahahaha I love reading the scumdoc and merk wouldn't shut up about the scum having all OPG votes in that either.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:02
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Here is my pre-prepared wall of text: Just gonna give my thoughts here. First and foremost a huge congrats to Ecco for making this game and have it work (with some minor balance patches). I think it's the most complicated setup I've ever seen with so many different factors that could affect day phases and battle outcomes, but she managed it like a pro. I think that this game went really, really well. There were a few hiccups and tweaks that needed to be done, but a soldiers game has a lot of moving parts, and this one especially was incredibly complex. There were many things happening at each point to keep track of and even with the two of us it was hard. So sorry if anything got messed up, or if you got a correction in a PM. There weren't as many mod errors as people thought (most were people just not reading the rules closely enough), but there definitely were a few that I know I'm responsible for. Hopefully when you see the scope of the moddoc, you'll understand. Well done to both threads, it was a real nailbiter before that last battle (which I'll do an in depth analysis of in a minute) and it was nice to see everyone having a good time playing mafia. I'm always a biased mod who roots for the scum team, but I have to give MVP to Hats who knocked it out of the park. Often abandoned at night and having to decide on his own who to NK, he managed to make it all the way to the last day with relatively little suspicion (and I think if it wasn't down to the 3 of you he may have been able to do convince some people and not get lynched). It wasn't just a new player pass, he did really, really well. I hope you stick around Hats, because you are awesome. Now to the not so cheerful part. I think some of the annoyance and heated discussion will come on behalf of the scum teams, and in some ways they are right. There were miscommunications in the rules that lead the scum teams astray. The threads found those rules on one of the final days, but it was the one about the NK being able to 1-shot people, when it couldn't 1-shot a single person. That was a mistake we should have caught. That said, I think the perspective of scum in a soldiers game needs to be different and treat it more like a mafia-like than "true mafia". The scum team doesn't need to eliminate all town to win, they just have to be a big enough thorn in town's side to cause them to be weaker in battle than the other team, whether via being in battle themselves, or causing more healing to have to be spread around. I think if the scum teams thought of themselves more as sabateours, and not assassins, they would have planned their NKs differently. When you read the scumdoc there are so many nights when they talk about who they think is weak enough to kill, when realistically there was nobody they could kill that night. Instead they should have thought of it in terms of what will cause the most havoc the next day. Again, part of that is mod communication issues for not making their role in the game clearer, but I think it was mostly a perspective issue rather than a broken game issue. Another thing may be between threads, with Quandary seeming much weaker than Max. He wasn't really, but his skills were elsewhere. Both leaders had a cop, but Max's was more reliable. Both leaders had advisors, but Quandary could vig one of his and gain all of their HP for himself. Both leaders could get items and give them out (inventor style), and while Max had a lot of mediocre items (1 HP water and the like), Quandary could cause people to do extra damage in battle or heal a lot more, or protect them. They also both had battle actions, but Quandary's were a lot stronger than Max's. One thing that I think could be good in the future would be to buff up the leader's HP so that they felt more comfortable joining the battle at critical points rather than just at the end. It would make their battle actions a lot more useful. There also could be more actions that affected the battle without them being in it (there was one, but there could be more). With so much focus on battle, it'd be nice to have the leaders be able to contribute more to it than just picking the fighters. I also personally think a few town were a little too powerful, but I know Ecco had chess like roles so those people were the equivalent to Queens, but I think spreading the love around a little more would be great too. MMT was very difficult to break through, Viva was able to stunlock rows and kaschei was able to do 10 damage to an entire row. Those were my general thoughts about the game, and I look forward to arguing with you all!
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Feb 12, 2016 04:03
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 O hateful creatures, loathed of the Gods, Those chains may be undone, that wrong be cured And many a means of rescue may be found; But when the dust has drunk the blood of men, No resurrection comes for one that's dead.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:03
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This was fun ecco. Thanks for all your hard work.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:03
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You too asiina! 
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Feb 12, 2016 04:04
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Also here is the breakdown of the last battle and how Jocasta basically wallhacked their way to victory: I want to talk about Battle 8, because it was insane luck that it turned out the way it did, and it couldn't have gone better for Jocasta if they had access to the mod doc. So before the battle here were the standings: code:KoB, PBS, and Atoramos all hit Birdstrike and murder him super dead for like a million damage, but the rest of the damage on Flying Leatherman (from JoseV) and tithin (from chaoslord) isn't enough to kill either of them. Meanwhile, Jocasta (and Hats) aims their poo poo perfectly. The three highest HP town outside of Quandary are PBS, JoseV, and Taste. PBS has 6 HP and is hit with a combined total of 8 damage from Ixt and tithin. JoseV has 6 HP and is hit with a combined total of 7 damage from Leatherman. Taste has 10 HP and is hit with a combined total of 12 damage from bowmore and Hats! Not only did they take out the three highest HP targets, they spread their damage out such that none of those targets took more than 2 extra damage above their HP. It was a precision strike. And then since Qal lost and there were two people with 1 HP who NOBODY TARGETTED, they both died from the battleground rules. It seriously was incredible luck that it turned out the way it did. Also lol your great hero birb was the only one to hurt Hats. 
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Feb 12, 2016 04:04
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I AM SO PROUD OF YOU PEOPLE IN THE JOCASTA THREAD HOLY poo poo
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Feb 12, 2016 04:04
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I enjoyed it. It took me a while to get in the groove but I was feeling decent and enjoying it by day 3. A few real life things got in the way and I apologize, but thank you to the mods and (most of) the players for it being an awesome return to mafia. I seriously never planned on playing forums mafia again, so this was a nice return. If any of the Qal dudes are all in a game sometime and need a person, shoot me a PM.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:04
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TMMadman posted:Kaschei is the worst Qal town ever. If he hadn't sent in his OPG ability during the prelim phase, he could have changed it and I wouldn't have died.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:07
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hi all I am going to write a big angry post but first things first I enjoyed this game and thought Ecco and Asiina did a great job handling the flow and managing action quickly.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:07
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I had very few ways outside of the NK to prove I was town, and had an ability that let me abstain from battle. If I used it in the front row, it had a chance of panicking the rest of the front line. I'm pretty sure the NKs are the sole reason I wasn't a lynch candidate near the end, so thanks for that. I did what I could to try and scumhunt, but in the end I just couldn't overlook the trio of Sinistral, TT and PBS. Hats did a good job of coming off genuine, and it's fun to see a newer player contributing that much without slipping.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:07
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Asiina posted:Also here is the breakdown of the last battle and how Jocasta basically wallhacked their way to victory: God damnit, I think if max had been in battle the last day we could have at least forced a draw because I was a loving tank in battle.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:08
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Atoramos posted:I had very few ways outside of the NK to prove I was town, and had an ability that let me abstain from battle. If I used it in the front row, it had a chance of panicking the rest of the front line. I'm pretty sure the NKs are the sole reason I wasn't a lynch candidate near the end, so thanks for that. I did what I could to try and scumhunt, but in the end I just couldn't overlook the trio of Sinistral, TT and PBS. Hats did a good job of coming off genuine, and it's fun to see a newer player contributing that much without slipping. Sorry I thought you were scum so had, Atoramos. I really thought you and merk had some 12th dimensional chess going on.
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Feb 12, 2016 04:09
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