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Yeah I can't recommend ever completely removing razorback from a list.
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Feb 16, 2016 19:39
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It's entirely possible I'm talking out my rear end because I haven't lucked into any razorbacks yet and I'm saving my dust to make other factions at least playable (like getting ironcliffe guardians)
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Feb 16, 2016 19:40
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll apply the suggestions when I get the chance, and then run a few games against AI to get a feel for the flow and make alterations from there. The reasons I was running 2 Jaxi was because I found myself drawing them late in the game in situations where they were useless or prone to dispel's, so I thought using 2 would reduce that. Obviously I was wrong.
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Feb 16, 2016 19:49
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The Jumpoff posted:Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll apply the suggestions when I get the chance, and then run a few games against AI to get a feel for the flow and make alterations from there. The reasons I was running 2 Jaxi was because I found myself drawing them late in the game in situations where they were useless or prone to dispel's, so I thought using 2 would reduce that. Obviously I was wrong. Jaxi work well towards the mid game if you have Vaner's buff spell for a bit of burst damage to take out something annoying or just hit the general. They can also act as lightning rods for spells that you'd prefer not target your important things.
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Feb 17, 2016 00:48
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Cromlech posted:Is this game a friendly introduction to card games having not ever played one legitimately? I feel that card games all hover around 4-5 big name decks pre-block (I have a few Magic friends so I've heard a few terms.. I think uhhh) so like, I don't know - I feel like these games kinda punish you for not strictly adhering to the meta. Can you customize and make a deck around a set of cards and have it feel it can contend against the bigger name decks? There is no shame in net decking either, especially when you are first learning to play. There are lots of budget lists out there that will set you on your way and get you climbing the ladder. Once you get a feel for the game you can make your own decks if that is what is fun for you. If you want to be super competitive than yeah you are going to have to play to the state of the metagame. Really good builders can sometimes exploit holes in the metagame but imo you have to be really familiar and decently skilled to pull that off.
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Feb 17, 2016 01:01
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The game is still in beta so things can change, I don't know if I'll stick with this if its going to be full aggro like hearthstone all over again. I'm kinda feeling it between minions that with either rush/damage gambits, or minions that spawn something else after dying.
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Feb 17, 2016 01:19
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I don't have the deck for it but after having to play against their bullshit, I highly recommend Lyonar, one of their win conditions is not dying and drat are they good at it
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Feb 17, 2016 01:57
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 Mage Magmar is terrifying and stupid, all at once. If you manage to get a turn 2 chrysalis burst, then you have an okay chance to win. If you don't, the game devolves into cat-and-mouse as you attempt to remove any threats they have while setting up for a chrysalis burst or value owlbeast plays. You win or lose based almost entirely off what eggs you can hatch. What else should I add or take out?
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Feb 17, 2016 03:32
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Okay it turns out I had some dust and I made a couple razorbacks and I was extremely wrong about them not being useful  Jeeeeesus this deck is broken good. I imagine third wish vet is even more stupid but this'll do for now. I'll probably drop the dreamgazers for headhunters or something else down the line and probably shift around the numbers of hearth sisters, primus fists, and frostfires depending on how often they get used but this is probably close to as a finished deck as I've ever gotten e: The sad thing is that my slowass Magmar deck that's not complete isn't far behind in win rate, so many people don't play around frenzy Control Volume fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 04:01
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Oops, Zurael doesnt bring back Mechz0r
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Feb 17, 2016 04:11
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Just finished Lyonar v Lyonar, my mechzor vs his regular lyonar. he cast 3 Keepers, brought back...3 x ironcliffe guardians. I still managed to drag the game to both of us having 6 cards left before I ran out of steam. I am so loving sick of Keepers.
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Feb 17, 2016 04:34
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Keepers are a real pile of rear end but I can't help but laugh when vetruvian plays one and brings back....... a dreamgazer.
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Feb 17, 2016 04:42
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The worst submarine posted:
Ignoring for a second that Chrysalis Burst and Arcanysts are both god-awful gameplans and I can't imagine either of them working on a conscious opponent more than 1/10 games, they don't play very well together. Both Chrysalis Burst and Prismatic Illusionist (which seem to be your only 2 and very dubious win conditions) have horrible anti-synergy with Natural Selection, Plasma Storm, and Mana Burn. You also have Owlbeast and Prismatic Illusionist, who both want you to spam spells, with a bunch of expensive and unspammable Magmar spells: Plasma Storm, Fractal Replication, Egg Morph, Earth Sphere. I would either ditch the latter and focus on spells you can actually spam (Diretide Swipe, Amplification, the Sonar Stun spell) or keep the latter and replace the Arcanysts with actual good Magmar cards (Makanator Warbeast, Spirit Harvester, Flash Reincarnation).
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Feb 17, 2016 04:43
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Control Volume posted:I don't have the deck for it but after having to play against their bullshit, I highly recommend Lyonar, one of their win conditions is not dying and drat are they good at it  Right, time for another deck chat. I made several changes since the last post so let's look at them  2 drops: Sadly, the lions had to go. I still stand by my statement about the strategic depth that they can add to a faction that's so slow, but the problem is that they'll not get to do that on average. I experimented with cutting a lion and a jaxi for 2 mystics, but it again didn't provide that much use. Like, outside from the few times where the double move allowed a clever play, the lions just aren't worth it. So yeah, static value triumphed over possible strategic value. I can see them doing work in an aggro deck with surge, but not in a control list. Rip immolation carry strat, you were too niche for this meta. 3 drops: I went back to tripple knights and got rid of the sentinels I ran briefly. Thing is, while they do provide some useful utility and lower the curve, their bodies are too weak for this style of deck. And tbh, their removal use can also be done by spells or board trades so I'm not sad about letting them go. As with the lions, I feel they are better suited for aggro where you can also use their gambit on your own stuff for greater effect. 4 drops: Nothing special here. The maidens got dropped for the two sorcerers, and I added a third emerald. I found that the extra heal is pretty much needed against aggro abyss and songhai anything. It's a little less crucial against Vanar, but still a good way to last until you've worn them out because your provokes aren't reliable plays. 5 drops: Nothing changed here, because why would it with cards like these???? 6 drop: Elyx is still there, but tbh he's kinda just a replacement for archon spellbinder until I can get one. Yes, the additional big provoke drop in my list is nice when people only plan around 3 guardians, but the stats on archon are so drat good. I could be persuaded to run elyx and a spellbinder, but I'd need to cut a card for that first. Probably a regalia and I'll ellaborate why next. Artifacts: I added another regalia because the card is kinda bonkers and sometimes wins a game by itself. However, despite all of its power, I've grown a tad iffy on the card. Like, it's a pretty slow play in a tempo heavy meta and that's bad. There are plenty of board states where it's basically just a way to trade away some hostile minions for 4 mana and x cost in life. A doable play when your deck is made for the distance, but not exactly a good one since you opponent also adds more cards to the board while he runs his old poo poo into you. And it's also bound to your general so it has no use against things that aren't in your reach. But for now, the extra tanking and damage is something that my deck can use so it stays. But as I said in the previous lines, I'd cut it for spellbinder or even a third keeper/twillight. In the end, I would probably cut both to fit those other cards because 3rd wish decks poo poo on it so hard. But as with the lions and sentinels, I can see this card being a lovely way to push face in a lyonar smorc deck. Spells: Not much changed here, but I started to run one decimate. I realize that this card is controversial and clunky, but it is a direct tech against 3rd wish. Vet players often get real cocky after they play the wish and pressure you with their general. Well, get decimated rear end in a top hat. And of course, even if they don't, their blast minion usually chills out in the back and isn't next to their general. People also don't consciously play around decimate most of the time, so it's possible to grab some value in almost any matchup. And it also counters Mechazor which seems a little less common right now but it's still a thing. But take note, your own general counts for the card so hostile minions next to you will not die. And I only run one copy since the card is narrow, and any player with half a brain will not play into it again if it has been used once already. But on the flipside they might play into immolation when they think you run more than one decimate! And lastly, I settled on a single bond because more is kind of a waste. Like, the sole use of the card is to get lethal, and since I play for the distance it's fine to burry it in the deck. Also I feel that when I have to use bond for board control, then I'm in a game that's very likely lost so why bother with more copies? The future: As stated before, spellbinders and another keeper/sorcerer are on my crafting sheet. It'll probably take a while until I can get another legend, but the sorc is doable and will likely replace a regalia real soon. I also feel that the body and spell recycle does the most for my deck as of now. Other than that, I don't really know what else the deck could use so go nuts if you have ideas. I haven't used this list for a serious push into diamond as of now, but will do so on the weekend.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:08
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drat I haven't played since the last half of January and the meta changed overnight. I just replaced my Keepers with Dancing Blades 
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Feb 17, 2016 19:46
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The worst submarine posted:
I think I played this deck! Are you hanging around mid-Gold tier? I'm slogging my way to Plat with a mid Lyonar build. This looks fun to hilariously lose with. Tin Tim posted:Well met IMO you have too much healing. 3x Emerald, 3x Sundrop AND 3x Mystics is overkill. I'd drop a Sundrop and an Emerald in favor of a Regalia and Twilight Sorc. Don't underestimate the value of stacked Regalias, I advocate 3x of them solely for that purpose. I would also suggest either adding or dropping a Divine Bond. Having two puts you into OTK range much easier, while having one isn't consistent enough to add more value than, say, another Keeper (or maybe another dispel?). Lyonar midrange is a blast to play right now, since the meta is so fast.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:57
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PaintVagrant posted:Oops, Zurael doesnt bring back Mechz0r Yyyyep, I learned that one the hard way, too. And, hey, as long as we're talking Mechaz0r decks:  In case it's not obvious, I'm still pretty heavily limited by what cards I actually have (Vindicators are worth their weight in gold and I need a full playset) and I haven't really played for the last few months, so I'm sure there's plenty of slots where newer cards would be better. Most of the 1-ofs are probably getting changed up except for Earth Sphere and Bounded Lifeforce; I found those extremely useful as a lategame fallback when the deck kinda starts running out of gas. But even with that being said, I've found it to be pretty reliable in rapidly pounding people's faces in even if Mechaz0r doesn't come out.
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Feb 17, 2016 20:15
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orangelex44 posted:IMO you have too much healing. 3x Emerald, 3x Sundrop AND 3x Mystics is overkill. I'd drop a Sundrop and an Emerald in favor of a Regalia and Twilight Sorc. Don't underestimate the value of stacked Regalias, I advocate 3x of them solely for that purpose. I would also suggest either adding or dropping a Divine Bond. Having two puts you into OTK range much easier, while having one isn't consistent enough to add more value than, say, another Keeper (or maybe another dispel?). Lyonar midrange is a blast to play right now, since the meta is so fast. Tripple regalia? drat, that's ballsy. How do you deal with tempo decks that just eat your charges with small fucks? Or with 3rd wish decks/ranged weenies just blasting them off? Like, the major downside of regalia is that you don't put something on the board and need your general to be able to rake in value. And since people generally say that the meta is fast, a 4 mana play like that seems counter intuitve. But hey, I'm still new so I could be wrong as hell on this. As said the card is baller, but 3 sounds extreme. I can get one back into the deck though, and I explain below. So I went yolo and grabbed a 40 pack booster because I dig the game so much. I milked their generous f2p model a good bit already so it's only fair to give back  Instantly rewarded! So I went and cut the two regalias to fit another twillight and the archon. Now I'm going to cut a sundrop to get a regalia back in, and keep an eye on emerald to see if I want a 2nd regalia instead of 3 emeralds. I'm really looking forward to the weekend where I can play the deck a bunch and figure all this stuff out. Oh and for the hell of it, the 40 packs had archon, elyx, 3 decimates(lmao), storm kage, mirkblood, tusk boar, eclipse, dark nemesis, lady locke and jax truesight. Then I blew my last 200 gold on two more packs and got zen'rui and vorpal reaver. A fine day for legends it seems 
Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 21:19
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You want at least 2 regalia.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:24
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So here is my current Songhai decklist: Seems to work fairly well. Usually once I gain tempo control I can usually throw enough spells a turn to do 3 to 6 points of damage. My biggest issue is either grabbing board control early or getting swarmed. The general rules are Sabrespine Seal gets used on either my General or my tigers. Unfortunately my Four Winds Magi only really last a turn but they usually help me keep the hurt going. Basically by the 5th round if they have 8 or less health I win. Any suggestion though?
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Feb 17, 2016 21:37
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Two Arclyte Regalia is good. Divine Bond is overrated, and I can only imagine it is more so with an aggro meta. It was passable when people were playing control and had to play around it in a generally slower board, but with faster decks and more minions on the board getting the same value out of it makes the card way less desirable. Dropping Emerald Rejuvenators is a really bad idea.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:40
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Stretch Marx posted:So here is my current Songhai decklist: Always play 3x boar in songhai. The silhouettes are weird because you don't have mask of shadows or cyclone mask. If you're playing a spell-heavy list you should be running alcuins/twilights, alcuins are better for spamming spells which is what your deck is leaning towards. 3x twin strike and 3x ghost lightning is insane AoE overkill. Ghost lightning without 8 gates isn't worth it just to have a cheap spell. Onyx bear seal is good for stalling the game out. The random rock pulverizers are also weird. Unfortunately, songhai is always expensive to play optimally. koolkal fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 21:45
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Androc posted:Yyyyep, I learned that one the hard way, too. And, hey, as long as we're talking Mechaz0r decks: Also new patch! The devs say that balance updates are coming (Keeper, Third Wish, anything else on the chopping block?), but meanwhile we get Unranked Mode, which is a great way to chowder through those "win 4 games with Vetruvian" quests with when you have nothing much more threatening than a Howling Dervish. e: Also this is a weird opinion but I really hope they go back through some of these monthly cards and think about making them faction-specific. Khymera is one of those cards that opens itself up to cheesy plays in Magmar and is completely unplayable everywhere else. RoboCicero fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 22:13
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GreyPowerVan posted:You want at least 2 regalia. amazeballs posted:Two Arclyte Regalia is good. RoboCicero posted:Also new patch! The devs say that balance updates are coming (Keeper, Third Wish, anything else on the chopping block?), but meanwhile we get Unranked Mode, which is a great way to chowder through those "win 4 games with Vetruvian" quests with when you have nothing much more threatening than a Howling Dervish.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:49
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Tin Tim posted:How much top end do you guys run then? Like, does your curve top at 5 or what? Cause I'm struggling to see what else to cut to cram in 2 or even 3 regalias otherwise I like to play a little slower, and overall curve higher than your setup, so I've got 2 seven drops (Pandora and Red Synja), five 5 drops (2 Keepers and the Ironcliffes),and five 4 drops (2 Emeralds and the Regalias). My deck is probably not optimal, but I've found that if I force myself not to clear for the first 2-3 turns and instead prioritize having minions on the board, I have the proper removal for the actually scary stuff later while also keeping decent board control. In exchange for more dudes, I do not run Holy Immolation (it's a great card, but I've never got one to drop), but instead use 2x Tempest, 1x Decimate, and Arclyte Sentinals for non-Martyrdom removal. I've become a big fan of Arclytes; a 2/4 body that can do removal OR the surprise extra damage play has a ton of utilization that the current meta doesn't expect. Two Divine Bonds is my theoretical win condition, but in most situations I win because I can maintain minions on the board while my opponent cannot, and also have 24 points of total healing in the deck (which is why 2 Emeralds seems like plenty for Lyonar). Why the two different 7-drops? Easy, they're the ones that dropped. However, I really like having 1 of each, since their best use is so different. Pandora is a guaranteed 19 stats on the board across two minions, and also a "you need to deal with this poo poo NOW" card, and ALSO has phenomenal stats to Bond. Synja is a slightly lower threat, with less stats in a worse distribution, but can save your rear end and better at turning around a poor board with the guaranteed 7 damage to a minion on entry. The last bit of advice I've gleaned from working my way through ranked the last couple months is not to overdo it on removal. I used to run a ton of dispel (both the AOE spell and the 2-drop minion), plus 3x tempest, plus the Sentinals - but in the end, I cut way down because it's usually better to be putting dudes on the board to force you opponent to react instead of reacting to what he's doing. That's why I *do* still run tempest, because it's guaranteed to address everything the other guy's running - a real help with Jaxi and Jax plays especially. As I said earlier, my deck's not optimized, but it's more fun to me than the pure net decks and it's gotten me to rank 6 (and almost certainly will ride to Platinum, I'm just waiting to get win-of-the-day to play again), so I'm not worried about it. Oh, and it's a real good idea to tech a single Rust Crawler to remove rear end in a top hat artifacts before they become Big Problems. edit: well, i'll get to Plat so long as I'm not up against Vetruvian five times in a row again. loving broken class... orangelex44 fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 01:00
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koolkal posted:Always play 3x boar in songhai. I had Alcuins in the deck but I found I spent more time waiting for the right spells to appear to actually use them. But I'll probably throw them back in. I also don't have any Onyx bear Seals or they'd be in there. The twin strike and ghost lightning are mostly there to continue my spell combos while slowly weakening the board and keep minion spam manageable. The same thing for the pulverizers though I'm probably taking those out as well. The silhouettes are actually really useful for escaping from getting cornered. Mist Walk doesn't throw you far enough to really be useful but the silhouettes allow you to both shift out of a stuck position while leaving a minion behind to run interference.
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Feb 18, 2016 01:26
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RoboCicero posted:Also new patch! The devs say that balance updates are coming (Keeper, Third Wish, anything else on the chopping block?), After the way they did January nerfs, I think it's more likely we will see: "Drain Essence (cost increased to 1) Windblade Adept (Zeal attack bonus reduced to +1) Legendary Neutral 4/4 for 3 that dispels a random enemy at the end of each turn See you next month!"
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Feb 18, 2016 01:35
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Avasculous posted:After the way they did January nerfs, I think it's more likely we will see: lol
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Feb 18, 2016 04:08
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Avasculous posted:After the way they did January nerfs, I think it's more likely we will see: What?
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Feb 18, 2016 04:26
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koolkal posted:What? That's the point, dude. The January nerfs didn't really address the cards the community generally agreed were OP, and instead tweaked things that were pretty tangental or had been considered a tad strong months ago. Additionally, they added a couple really good value cards for the month that didn't help balance any.
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Feb 18, 2016 04:59
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Are they going to be adding in any more faction cards soon? It would be nice to have some competition with the neutral staples and further differentiate the factions.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:04
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orangelex44 posted:That's the point, dude. The January nerfs didn't really address the cards the community generally agreed were OP, and instead tweaked things that were pretty tangental or had been considered a tad strong months ago. Additionally, they added a couple really good value cards for the month that didn't help balance any. I only play songhai and lantern fox absolutely needed a change so the community is retarded if they think that Not to mention new fox is good enough to play and songhai is still relevant Their biggest mistake was not also nerfing 3rd wish at the same time
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Feb 18, 2016 05:13
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Using a loremaster to copy a Ventruvian's third wish against them is the funniest loving thing. gently caress your lasercat. gently caress you.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:26
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Tin Tim posted:How much top end do you guys run then? Like, does your curve top at 5 or what? Cause I'm struggling to see what else to cut to cram in 2 or even 3 regalias otherwise I just scrolled up and re-read your deck list and you have two Regalia in it already? I am now confused. Either way the deck image in your original post looks really solid. You said you had a Decimate in there and I couldn't find it in the image, but I agree - Decimate is good, especially against Vetruvian.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:26
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Gravy Train Robber posted:Are they going to be adding in any more faction cards soon? It would be nice to have some competition with the neutral staples and further differentiate the factions. Yep, there's at least 3 expansions and a mini-expansion planned which will add a ton of new card to every faction.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:37
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amazeballs posted:I just scrolled up and re-read your deck list and you have two Regalia in it already? I am now confused. Either way the deck image in your original post looks really solid. You said you had a Decimate in there and I couldn't find it in the image, but I agree - Decimate is good, especially against Vetruvian. Here's the new and current list  I got to play a couple of games with it, but lost horribly to Vanar every time. I guess I probably still play too aggressive, but on the other hand I can't really deal with their tempo surges without the right draws otherwise. Especially regalia performed super bad due to their attack buffs/ fenrirs stripping the charges right off. But I think I may be stressing too much and just need to play the game more to learn the motions better. Speaking off, orangelex44 posted:I like to play a little slower, and overall curve higher than your setup, so I've got 2 seven drops (Pandora and Red Synja), five 5 drops (2 Keepers and the Ironcliffes),and five 4 drops (2 Emeralds and the Regalias). My deck is probably not optimal, but I've found that if I force myself not to clear for the first 2-3 turns and instead prioritize having minions on the board, I have the proper removal for the actually scary stuff later while also keeping decent board control. orangelex44 posted:Oh, and it's a real good idea to tech a single Rust Crawler to remove rear end in a top hat artifacts before they become Big Problems. Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 21:57
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RoboCicero posted:I love Kujata for timing plays, but I'm not sure that Mechaz0r is a good deck for three of them. Most of your minions are really cheap and pretty fragile, but if you're findining that it works. Aren't you running into problems with card draw? I know that's what void hunters are for, but they come out pretty late, especially given you're not packing more traditional Magmar threats (basically all the Slithdars). You're not wrong about the minions being fragile, but I definitely stand behind the full kujata playset. I almost never want to have more than one out, but they're absolute removal magnets. I wouldn't argue with card draw being an issue as games stall out- hence the lategame backup singletons- but I feel like void hunters come out plenty fast at 2-3, and they trade aggressively to boot. I've had my eye on mogwais, but I sort of worry that they might be too slow.
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Feb 18, 2016 22:04
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Tempo Vanar is so much fun! I'm short some of the epics, but I replaced them with the 2/2s that shove a nearby enemy across the map and the ones that dispel and it's been working out fantastic. I lost to a Magmar that spawned a bunch of eggs in one turn, but every other game has been won by bouncing or displacing the minion that my opponent thought was protecting them. Nice 4/8 provoke guy you have there, it'd look better eight spaces away!
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Feb 19, 2016 01:00
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Tin Tim posted:Oh woops, I actually posted the wrong image. My bad! Yeah that list is solid. At this point just keep playing it and don't be afraid to make your own calls on what to change around. Obviously don't be quick to judge but if Arclyte Regalia feels like a dead card in your hand too often its a good idea to scrap it. The only comment I have is that Sundrop is the best healing spell in the game and not running three of the best healing spell in the game is unsettling to me. BJPaskoff posted:Tempo Vanar is so much fun! I'm short some of the epics, but I replaced them with the 2/2s that shove a nearby enemy across the map and the ones that dispel and it's been working out fantastic. I lost to a Magmar that spawned a bunch of eggs in one turn, but every other game has been won by bouncing or displacing the minion that my opponent thought was protecting them. Nice 4/8 provoke guy you have there, it'd look better eight spaces away! I agree! I am running a list I found for combo/tempo Vanar. It abuses Avalanche and 
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Feb 19, 2016 03:56
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amazeballs posted:The only comment I have is that Sundrop is the best healing spell in the game and not running three of the best healing spell in the game is unsettling to me. I dunno, if you're also running Mystics and Rejuvenators it can be a bit much. I've never lost a game and went, "boy, if I'd only had another Sundrop!"; at some point you need minions or removal. My losses as Lyonar I usually attribute to either excellent early draws by the opponent before I can establish board control, or an inopportune board wipe I couldn't compensate for - healing doesn't really fix either problem.
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Feb 19, 2016 04:09
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