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MysteriousStranger posted:ISIS is self contained. They are selling the oil from the fields they took on the black market, selling black market historical artifacts (they don't destroy all of them, mostly just the replicas), collecting taxes, run a banking system, and took over several banks with a lot of cash on hand. Granted, they can't deal on the actual market for these goods, but they are doing all of this on the black market fairly easily. This isn't to say that Saudi money doesn't get to them, but not buying oil wouldn't stop this. The Saudi's own a lot of poo poo and have a pretty drat good sovereign fund. They can pay out of that for this and even if it's billions it's a drop in the ocean to them. This info is all a couple years out of date. Their oil business took a poo poo as soon as the US started bombing everything, the antiquities market is drying up and they're resorting to torturing museum curators in the hopes that they have a treasure map in their head or something, and most of the reports about them making shitloads of money by taking over a bank were based around one in Mosul where they didn't actually get much of anything. Not long ago, one of their financial gurus was captured by US forces with a ton of details on their operation in his possession, and since then, things haven't been going so well financially. They are highly dependent on foreign aid, as it's what got them their start to begin with, and it's the one constant.
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Mar 25, 2016 00:42
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DarkCrawler posted:Is it easier to radicalize criminals or regular people? All of these people were involved with crime before radicalizing. I'd say its easier to radicalize arab muslims than it is any other group. Volkerball posted:This info is all a couple years out of date. Their oil business took a poo poo as soon as the US started bombing everything, the antiquities market is drying up and they're resorting to torturing museum curators in the hopes that they have a treasure map in their head or something, and most of the reports about them making shitloads of money by taking over a bank were based around one in Mosul where they didn't actually get much of anything. Not long ago, one of their financial gurus was captured by US forces with a ton of details on their operation in his possession, and since then, things haven't been going so well financially. They are highly dependent on foreign aid, as it's what got them their start to begin with, and it's the one constant. Captured with payroll data on thousands of individuals who are walking the streets of Europe and North America this very day.
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Mar 25, 2016 00:54
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My Imaginary GF posted:Captured with payroll data on thousands of individuals who are walking the streets of Europe and North America this very day. It's really amazing and heart-crushingly sad at the same time that terrorism is mostly bankrolled by obscenely rich assholes who want to increase the price of their investments by gaming the consequences of killing innocent people.
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Mar 25, 2016 01:34
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Volkerball posted:This info is all a couple years out of date. Their oil business took a poo poo as soon as the US started bombing everything, the antiquities market is drying up and they're resorting to torturing museum curators in the hopes that they have a treasure map in their head or something, and most of the reports about them making shitloads of money by taking over a bank were based around one in Mosul where they didn't actually get much of anything. Not long ago, one of their financial gurus was captured by US forces with a ton of details on their operation in his possession, and since then, things haven't been going so well financially. They are highly dependent on foreign aid, as it's what got them their start to begin with, and it's the one constant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgCr8Ljb90g So there goes a lot of money right there. Fake edit: Apparently that video is rather popular, it's got more than half a million views when most of the other CJTF-OIR videos have views in the thousands. fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 01:53
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I just heard on the news this morning (sorry if its old info) that one of the suicide brother bombers was already put in jail (for 9 years he didnt even serve, lol) for SHOOTING AT THE POLICE WITH AN ASSAULT RIFLE. Now i'm not advocating for a super-harsh USA like prison/felon system, but that doesnt sound like a disenfranchised immigrant struggling to fit in.
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Mar 25, 2016 03:56
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is it true that Belgian police aren't allowed to do raids at night? is it because they might get lost?
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Mar 25, 2016 04:44
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boom boom boom posted:is it true that Belgian police aren't allowed to do raids at night? It's a 1969 privacy and anti-police-overreach law. There actually are some overrides built in, but "suspicion of harboring terrorists" doesn't seem to make the cut.
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Mar 25, 2016 05:03
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Fascinating article about a recent interview with Robert Pape, a terrorism analyst who's team has researched every suicide bombing from 1980 to present. http://www.thenation.com/article/heres-what-a-man-who-studied-every-suicide-attack-in-the-world-says-about-isiss-motives/
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Mar 25, 2016 05:25
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boom boom boom posted:is it true that Belgian police aren't allowed to do raids at night? You're thinking of the Polish police.  MattD1zzl3 posted:I just heard on the news this morning (sorry if its old info) that one of the suicide brother bombers was already put in jail (for 9 years he didnt even serve, lol) for SHOOTING AT THE POLICE WITH AN ASSAULT RIFLE. Now i'm not advocating for a super-harsh USA like prison/felon system, but that doesnt sound like a disenfranchised immigrant struggling to fit in. That is pretty insane that he'd get released after that, but it's true, apparently. The Belgian security system royally hosed up on more than one occasion in this sad case. To their credit, they've admitted as much, and now they seem to be having at least some success unravelling other plots in France and Belgium. That said, I'm not sure why you think this means he wasn't a disenfranchised immigrant struggling to fit in. It fits exactly what I and others have been saying: disenfranchised minorities with no prospects and facing lots of discrimination often turn to crime. Sometimes that leads to terrorism. It clearly did in this case. Obviously he wasn't struggling to fit in by the time he was robbing currency exchanges and shooting at the cops, but that doesn't mean he and his family didn't try before he fell into a life of crime. Majorian fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 07:29
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Here's a must-read on the origins of these jihadis: http://europe.newsweek.com/belgium-new-extremists-jihadi-cool-brussels-attacks-439640?rm=euquote:These European attackers are not like the Al-Qaeda members of old—the radicalized adherents to fundamentalist Islam. Many of these new age killers were small children when the World Trade Center fell in 2001 and have spent much of their lives watching major wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and now Syria. Their knowledge of Islam is quite limited; they are more like jihadi hipsters than dedicated Islamists, or what some experts in the intelligence community call “jihadist cool.” They celebrate what the Dutch coordinator for security and counterterrorism called “pop-jihad as a lifestyle.” quote:These shallow Islamists have proved to be a challenge for European countries that use a traditional de-radicalization program for Muslims lured into the world of radical fundamentalists: It’s hard to re-educate people about Islam when they knew almost nothing to begin with. In what may be the most representative event depicting the nature of these new Islamist extremists, two British Muslims, both 22, purchased copies of Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies in August 2014 just before they boarded a plane on the first leg of their trip to join ISIS fighters in Syria. quote:Here is what needs to be understood about the murderous practitioners of jihadi cool. Based on interviews with European Muslims returning from fighting in Syria, foreign intelligence agencies estimate that about 20 percent of them were diagnosed with mental illnesses before they left for the Middle East. A large percentage of them have prior records for both petty and serious crimes. And the vast majority of them come out of urban neighborhoods torn apart by economic hardship. quote:Even with all that knowledge, however, disrupting an attack from this new breed of Islamic fans—rather than religious devotees—is enormously difficult. These are small cells of like-minded young people with operational autonomy, not some organization with top-down leadership like Al-Qaeda. Many of them do travel to Syria to learn tactics from ISIS before heading back home on their own. All it takes is some guns, some homemade bombs and some desire for fame to transform a loser into a hero among his friends and allies. And then the world eagerly attributes the attack to ISIS, which takes a bow for an attack its leaders probably knew nothing about and earns more cred that it uses to attract even more devotees. Punks who murder is the name of my new Pink Floyd cover band.
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Mar 25, 2016 08:30
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double nine posted:Here's a must-read on the origins of these jihadis: http://europe.newsweek.com/belgium-new-extremists-jihadi-cool-brussels-attacks-439640?rm=eu You'd better...make your face up in your favorite disguise With your button-down lips and your roller-blind eyes... That's a very good read, thanks for posting it.  Definitely underlines how much of a "gently caress you dad!" it often is.
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Mar 25, 2016 08:55
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So basically ISIS is a magnet for depressed and neglected tweens who are looking for the most  EXTREEME way to go "gently caress you dad" and rebel against the system. This makes a surprising amount of sense.We should redirect these people to healthier alternatives, such as becoming a shitposting waste of space on 4chan or something awful.
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Mar 25, 2016 09:02
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:So basically ISIS is a magnet for depressed and neglected tweens who are looking for the most https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...a9c9_story.html One in six foreign fighters who joined ISIS were Non-Muslims who converted and joined almost immediately. It's pretty obvious the allure has poo poo to do with how much of a Muslim you are.
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Mar 25, 2016 09:09
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That koran for dummies thing is straight up four lions type stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI
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Mar 25, 2016 09:21
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Jippa posted:That koran for dummies thing is straight up four lions type stuff. I've watched this movie a million times and I've followed Middle East news daily for years, and the similarities are absurd sometimes. The people who made that movie really knew their poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2016 09:32
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Jippa posted:That koran for dummies thing is straight up four lions type stuff. The best documentary about terrorists.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:05
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blowfish posted:So basically ISIS is a magnet for depressed and neglected tweens who are looking for the most I'm pretty sure many of them actually are shitposting wastes of time. They had a large social network presence and some skilled image manipulators for their propaganda movies. Like there were these western convert jihadists in Iraq that were complaining that they wanted to go back home because it was hard to recharge their iPhones when you're in a ruined city with no power.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:07
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Cat Mattress posted:I'm pretty sure many of them actually are shitposting wastes of time. They had a large social network presence and some skilled image manipulators for their propaganda movies. Like there were these western convert jihadists in Iraq that were complaining that they wanted to go back home because it was hard to recharge their iPhones when you're in a ruined city with no power. It was really funny seeing the difference between how ISIS recruited westerners vs how it recruited people domestically in Iraq and Syria. They would have certain westerners who were fighting for them run twitter accounts targeted at westerners, where they would post pictures of them chilling out eating lays potato chips and things like that to try and convince people that life in the caliphate was totally normal.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:10
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Cat Mattress posted:I'm pretty sure many of them actually are shitposting wastes of time. They had a large social network presence and some skilled image manipulators for their propaganda movies. Like there were these western convert jihadists in Iraq that were complaining that they wanted to go back home because it was hard to recharge their iPhones when you're in a ruined city with no power. Red Army Facions members complained that there were no Coke vending machines in Palestinian training camps. The more things change, the more they are the same.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:25
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"armchair terrorist encounters reality" should be a sitcom.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:26
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Well, it seems like the police in Belgium is completely inept. If we were still dealing with communist terrorist I would have been 100% sure that the KGB has infiltrated them to silly degrees, but at least now we can be sure that it's just ineptitude. https://twitter.com/SpiegelPeter/status/713321863167008768 quote:Police in Mechelen, just north of Brussels, failed to pass on information that could have led police to Salah Abdeslam from Brussels authorities for several months, the local chief of police said Friday. http://www.politico.eu/article/local-police-had-abdeslam-information-for-3-months-didnt-tell-brussels/
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Mar 25, 2016 13:32
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blowfish posted:We should redirect these people to healthier alternatives, such as becoming a shitposting waste of space on 4chan or something awful. Funny how nobody said "if only his energy has been redirected in a more positive direction" about Dylan Roof, who IIRC killed something like 1/5th the innocent people. I say killing innocent people erases the "awe poor guy" chalk board even retroactively, but that's just me. DarkCrawler posted:What in particular, in any way or form, led you to believe that was a serious post pitying terrorists? Autism i guess...  Also i wouldnt put it past D&D.
MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 13:36
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Funny how nobody said "if only his energy has been redirected in a more positive direction" about Dylan Roof, who IIRC killed something like 1/5th the innocent people. What in particular, in any way or form, led you to believe that was a serious post pitying terrorists? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 13:43
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More poo poo going down.
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Mar 25, 2016 15:39
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GreyjoyBastard posted:It's a 1969 privacy and anti-police-overreach law. There actually are some overrides built in, but "suspicion of harboring terrorists" doesn't seem to make the cut. I hope this leads to some reforms to that law. That's crazy restrictive when there's actual terrorists running around
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Mar 25, 2016 15:41
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https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/713374853978583040
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Mar 25, 2016 15:42
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boom boom boom posted:I hope this leads to some reforms to that law. That's crazy restrictive when there's actual terrorists running around There is a LOT of the belgian security apparatus that needs to be reformed. This is one of them but there are sadly far more structural changes that need to happen and it'll be difficult because they involve changing the culture of these organisations. quote:http://europe.newsweek.com/isis-brussels-belgium-bureaucrats-terrorism-islamic-state-europe-paris-440658 quote:Belgium is a federal state and a bilingual country, which has contributed to a paralytic incompetence of its government. Officials who speak French distrust those who speak Flemish. This leaves the Dutch-speaking areas of the north in frequent, disorganized conflict with the French speakers in the south that creates patchwork layers of bureaucracy and competing police agencies that undermine law enforcement and security efforts. (The capital of Brussels has six different police agencies.) Because of this extreme decentralization, Belgian investigators are renowned for not communicating with colleagues in other agencies and locations. Such disorganization allows terrorists to organize without detection. quote:The lack of cooperation in Belgium extends to its allies as well. An American intelligence officer who spoke on condition of anonymity told Newsweek that it is not only difficult to obtain cooperation from the Belgians, often it is a battle to even figure out which of the many agencies at odds with each other actually has the information being sought. Indeed, in what this officer described as a result of misplaced pride or embarrassment, the Belgians refused to meet with American government officials seeking information about the investigation in Brussels in the aftermath of the Paris attacks. quote:Peaceful Muslims in Molenbeek who speak to journalists, much less law enforcement, are subjected to the same kinds of threats to them and their families that turn up in gang-infested neighborhoods in the United States. Not that anyone needs threats to keep quiet; talking to the police can be pointless. Law enforcement even shrugs when evidence of potential terrorists comes in over the transom; one Molenbeek mother interviewed by CNN who attempted to turn in her son to the police before he traveled to Syria to join ISIS says law enforcement simply showed her the door, mumbling they were powerless to do anything. That man, who easily could have returned to join in a terrorist attack, was killed in Syria.
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Mar 25, 2016 15:47
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I'm starting to think these attacks may have been preventable, if Belgian authorities weren't incompetent as gently caress.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:42
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Wiki:quote:The 19 municipalities (communes) of the Brussels-Capital Region are political subdivisions with individual responsibilities for the handling of local level duties, such as law enforcement and the upkeep of schools and roads within its borders.  can someone from Belgium explain how the hell that works out in practice
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Mar 25, 2016 16:45
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DarkCrawler posted:Wiki: The same way it works in the US, where policing is also local?
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Mar 25, 2016 16:47
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Doesn't the existence of the FBI cover the biggest problems of local policing? Anything similar to that in Belgium?
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Mar 25, 2016 16:49
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botany posted:The same way it works in the US, where policing is also local? Do individual neighborhoods in US cities administer this stuff on their own? I thought NYPD and LAPD are...New York City and Los Angeles police forces. We are talking about a city of 1.6 million, much smaller then either.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:51
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Municipal police deals with misdemeanors, street patrols and petty stuff like that. Federal / state / criminal police is for serious investigative work. That's how police works pretty much everywhere in the world.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:52
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steinrokkan posted:Municipal police deals with misdemeanors, street patrols and petty stuff like that. Federal / state / criminal police is for serious investigative work. That's how police works pretty much everywhere in the world. In my country the police force (including the guys who handle serious investigations) is national so yeah, that got me confused. 
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Mar 25, 2016 16:55
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DarkCrawler posted:Do individual neighborhoods in US cities administer this stuff on their own? I thought NYPD and LAPD are...New York City and Los Angeles police forces. We are talking about a city of 1.6 million, much smaller then either. Yeah, but those are extreme cases. There are many small municipal police departments as well as county police departments that are even smaller than the average department in the Brussels.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:56
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Funny how nobody said "if only his energy has been redirected in a more positive direction" about Dylan Roof, who IIRC killed something like 1/5th the innocent people. A bunch of people said that about Dylan Roof. They do about basically every mass shooter in the U.S. And what point are you trying to make anyway? That we treat white terrorists worse than non-white ones?
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Mar 25, 2016 16:57
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http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-eu-35891078 More on European security incompetence in general.
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Mar 25, 2016 17:01
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DarkCrawler posted:In my country the police force (including the guys who handle serious investigations) is national so yeah, that got me confused. Where are you from, out of curiosity?
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Mar 25, 2016 17:32
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DarkCrawler posted:Do individual neighborhoods in US cities administer this stuff on their own? I thought NYPD and LAPD are...New York City and Los Angeles police forces. We are talking about a city of 1.6 million, much smaller then either. Not so much neighborhoods, but "cities" that make up the amalgamation of "the city" do. For example if you take a look at say the Phoenix Metro Area I'm pretty 99% sure that every one of those cities listed with > 10k population have their own police department/force. Many of these cities are literally right next to each other sharing a road.
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Mar 25, 2016 17:49
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blowfish posted:"armchair terrorist encounters reality" should be a sitcom. quote:26-year-old Virginia man who was taken into custody in Iraq after he purportedly deserted the Islamic State told a Kurdish TV station Thursday that he decided to escape after he grew dissatisfied during intensive religious training in Mosul. quote:A source in the Peshmerga forces announced on Monday, that the Kurdish forces were able to arrest one of ISIS members in the district of Sinjar, on his way back to Turkey. quote:Dozens of ISIS defectors have told of how would-be jihadis are lining up to leave the terror group, a new report reveals. The 58 deserters - 51 men and seven women - claimed ISIS followers have grown tired of the bloody executions, special treatment given to foreigners, and the broken promises of money and glory. Oh and the award for "most unlikely-looking ISIL member" goes to: https://twitter.com/Furiouskurd/status/702237156526465025 quote:Kurdish forces have rescued a 16-year-old Swedish girl from ISIS in northern Iraq, according to regional Kurdish authorities. fade5 fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 17:50
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