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please stop talking about the nature of violence or whatever the hell you people are talking about
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Mar 19, 2016 22:40
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:No, they want to prove he plausibly had no idea it was going on because he's never in Lansing, as in doesn't bother to show up for work any more, he has people handling everything for him. What if there really is a conspiracy and the reason the governor is never seen in public is that he's being held against his will? 
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Mar 20, 2016 00:23
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Dmitri-9 posted:Supplying a city is different from buying a well point at Home Depot. Switching Flint to Lake Huron would further undermine DWSD's budget which Snyder could easily break up and sell to private companies using his extremely broad gubernatorial powers. That's not what the conspiracy du jour said though. Just that is it possible they poisoned the water themselves to sell it to corporations. That's a pretty dangerous, stupid, and pointless move considering you can't walk ten feet around here without stumbling upon some source of water or simply dig a hallow hole for it instead. I mean, poisoning a major city on the part of some company to get access to Flint's water supply in a place where water supplies are extremely abundant is just mind numbingly stupid. Even moreso when that poisoning is going to be found out from simply looking at the brown/gray water coming from every tap of every household in a city and suburb of some 100,000 people. Not like the Flint river doesn't have a long history of pollution to start with which is just stupid stacked on stupid when it comes to bottled water conspiracies.
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Mar 20, 2016 00:40
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Epic High Five posted:"pre-modern humans were nonviolent and in tune with nature" - no megafauna ever 
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Mar 20, 2016 00:51
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http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/03/break-in_where_water_files_sto.html Yeah it's an inside job alright, by Coca cola edit: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1KoN0XGhu3MKT3zPE5 coca cola have been known to do things like this before. With all the water disappearing into hurricanes by 2025 I don't think its that big of a stretch to say Coca cola would stoop to very low levels to put all the drinkable water in their plastic bottles Lonny Donoghan fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 03:06
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Epic High Five posted:"pre-modern humans were nonviolent and in tune with nature" - no megafauna ever Yeah it's pretty funny to contrast the Dances with Wolves style of noble savage with the fact that all the big mammals died out not long after Native Americans came to the Western Hemisphere.
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Mar 20, 2016 04:49
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boom boom boom posted:please stop talking about the nature of violence or whatever the hell you people are talking about stop talking about anime in the gw thread  but yeah, this line of conversation could stand to be its own thread
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Mar 20, 2016 04:55
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Frykte posted:http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/03/break-in_where_water_files_sto.html You're insane.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:13
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computer parts posted:Yeah it's pretty funny to contrast the Dances with Wolves style of noble savage with the fact that all the big mammals died out not long after Native Americans came to the Western Hemisphere.
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Mar 20, 2016 09:04
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computer parts posted:Yeah it's pretty funny to contrast the Dances with Wolves style of noble savage with the fact that all the big mammals died out not long after Native Americans came to the Western Hemisphere. Also, humans were spread from Alaska to Chile by 16 KYA and the last of the megafauna were extinct around 12 KYA, so it took 4,000 years for them to go extinct. At a time of massive climate change. Humans were not the sole destroyers of the megafauna.
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Mar 20, 2016 09:26
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:You're insane. Nestle Waters owns the Muskegon River, as far as they are concerned. I live about 15 miles away from their bottling facility in Michigan. Dennis Muchmore is Snyder's Chief of Staff. Muchmore's wife, Deb, is the chief spokesperson for Nestle Waters. Not about to go down the conspiracy theory route, but you can see where it's easy to do with this crisis.
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Mar 20, 2016 13:37
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Yeah, kinda. the big difference being that the Muskie is a shitload cleaner than the Big Flint Ditch. It'd either cost a company more than they're willing to spend to decontaminate it or suffer the impending lawsuits when people get sick. I mean sure, it could go that route, but it requires quite a large gathering of stupid, complication, and pointlessness. And a willingness to take quite a real chance at sinking your company. Basically it does what all conspiracies do, over complicates and raises more questions and improbabilities than it answers and resolves
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Mar 20, 2016 15:33
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And, again, which conspiracy is more likely: a global corporation running a long con that would absolutely hurt them if the truth got out, or a bunch of incompetent leaders trying to cover their asses for a real massive gently caress up that came about from failing to do their due diligence?
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Mar 20, 2016 16:28
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Regalingualius posted:And, again, which conspiracy is more likely: a global corporation running a long con that would absolutely hurt them if the truth got out, or a bunch of incompetent leaders trying to cover their asses for a real massive gently caress up that came about from failing to do their due diligence? The world seems a lot scarier to people if our leaders and better-thans are as dumb and incompetent as we are. See: 9/11 and jet fuel/steel beams, etc.
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Mar 20, 2016 17:41
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One of the details with the Flint water crisis was the break-in at the office where records and an old TV were stolen shortly after the scandal broke. It's now been determined by police that the break-in was an inside jobquote:Police investigating a burglary at a Flint City Hall office where water records were stored “was definitely an inside job,” police said.
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Mar 22, 2016 18:24
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It was an inside job because someone didn't take a power cord? Really?
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Mar 22, 2016 18:27
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It's obviously an inside job but hopefully the police have something stronger to go on than that as evidence.
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Mar 22, 2016 18:50
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ayn rand hand job posted:It was an inside job because someone didn't take a power cord? You missed the part about the specific office that was targeted. That is what really got their attention, not just the monitor.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:22
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Yeah, I assume that they know it was an inside job from the specificity of the target and whatever evidence they have of damage or what they had to do to get in. The tv thing is probably a case of "they stole the TV to make it look like a regular break-in, but they were so careless about it they didn't even steal the whole TV."
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Mar 23, 2016 01:26
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Epic High Five posted:"pre-modern humans were nonviolent and in tune with nature" - no megafauna ever Poked my head into this thread and was: glad I did. Tight Booty Shorts posted:You're insane. Beverage companies' entire production model is based on monopolizing a water source and selling it back to people. You could argue that it's the same as exploiting the resources on any other piece of land, but it's a sensitive issue for a variety of reasons, including the fact that it's a fundamental necessity for life. Privatizing water in already impoverished areas can create economic disasters in which foreign or otherwise higher-wealth markets drive the cost of water up out of reach of the people who were previously able to live on public water supplies, like what happened in Bolivia 20 years ago. It turns out that corporations don't actually give a poo poo about anything besides their profit margins. http://www.newsweek.com/race-buy-worlds-water-73893 This article is a little old, but a megalomaniacal need to "privatize all water" is definitely a baked-in aspect of the soft drink industry, and the people doing it vary on a full range between not giving a poo poo about the human cost of doing so and earnestly believing that the free market will sort it out. Never mind that, in order to participate in the "free market", you have to be able to afford the buy-in cost in the first place. Anyway, Flint's water is super hosed for maybe a long time. I wouldn't be shocked if they end up having to write off the whole community and relocate people, like the time an unwitting entrepreneur contaminated Times Beach, MO with Agent Orange.
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Mar 23, 2016 16:14
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Your conspiracy theory falls apart under the most basic scrutiny, dude. They already had a perfectly fine source of water from Detroit before the shitshow started. The plan was to use the river as a cheap stopgap while they got everything set up to transition over to another water source. Once the governor, EPA, et. al realized how massively they hosed up... They hastily switched back to Detroit, instead of exclusively buying a ton of bottled drinks. And that's just the most basic stuff; why go after Flint when there's Detroit, for example? Do I agree that the bottled drink industry is massively hosed up, and has done incredibly harmful poo poo in their quest to privatize water? Hell yeah. But it just doesn't fit with this situation. All of the evidence points to individuals in the area government not doing their due diligence in their attempts to save a buck, and correspondingly freaking out when they realized how badly they'd screwed up.
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Mar 23, 2016 16:40
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In actual, thread-related news: Snyder's appointed task force has released its findings on who's the blame for the Water Crisis. Shockingly enough, its Snyder's Administration, with a slight slap at the EPA for being too timid and deferential to the state gov and WQ (in other words, for acting like Republicans expect them to). Read the whole thing along with their recommendations here.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:45
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What exactly are the GOP complaints about the EPA? I mean I know they are going to blame them regardless but what's their avenue of attack? The only thing I can think of that they hosed up on was that they didn't regulate hard enough but there;s no way Republicans are going to make that argument.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:56
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Radish posted:What exactly are the GOP complaints about the EPA? I mean I know they are going to blame them regardless but what's their avenue of attack? The only thing I can think of that they hosed up on was that they didn't regulate hard enough but there;s no way Republicans are going to make that argument. The EPA Region 5 leadership apparently quashed the concerns of the scientists who were raising the alarm bells about the problem and then got into an out of court legal slapfight with the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality about whether the EPA actually had the authority under the relevant federal statute to mandate the testing protocols used by MDEQ. This resulted in the EPA Region 5 Administrator getting what is rumored to be a 'resign or be fired' order from EPA Headquarters, followed very shortly by a new policy from Gina McCarthy for "Elevation of Critical Public Health Issues" laying out the criteria that would allow EPA employees to go around their chain of command when they feel there's a critical public health issue that needs to be addressed. Essentially an internal whistleblower protection policy.
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Mar 25, 2016 17:44
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Interesting, thanks.
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Mar 25, 2016 20:25
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http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/panel-pins-blame-flint-crisis-gov-snyders-administration Not a court of law, but it is nice that even the panel that Snyder appointed knows where to put the blame.
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Mar 25, 2016 21:56
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:One of the details with the Flint water crisis was the break-in at the office where records and an old TV were stolen shortly after the scandal broke. It's now been determined by police that the break-in was an inside job Yeeeeaaaaah ok. Good job there Flint police. I've had poo poo stolen out of my car where vital components were left behind. It certainly wasn't me that stole them. Had a cb radio stolen but the antenna was left behind. Had a shitload of sockets stolen but the actual socket wrench left behind. 2 ton floor jack stolen but the handle to use it was left behind.
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Mar 26, 2016 11:04
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SocketWrench posted:Yeeeeaaaaah ok. Good job there Flint police. I've had poo poo stolen out of my car where vital components were left behind. It certainly wasn't me that stole them. Again, read the whole article. 1 specific office was targeted, and only documents about the water issue were targeted. The monitor is secondary.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:40
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Not only that but the documents that were left were scattered everywhere. Sorry but this just screams "somebody incompetent is covering something up." The devil is in the details, as they say, and when the only things that go missing are a set of very specific documents and a TV that just screams cover up.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:00
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The Repo Man posted:Again, read the whole article. 1 specific office was targeted, and only documents about the water issue were targeted. The monitor is secondary. I did. Though I was focusing on that specifically because it really means nothing. It's like the cops said "We have evidence this was an inside job, and the sky was blue today." It's just a comically stupid addition
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Mar 27, 2016 00:01
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SocketWrench posted:I did. Though I was focusing on that specifically because it really means nothing. It's like the cops said "We have evidence this was an inside job, and the sky was blue today." It's just a comically stupid addition Aaaahhhh I gotcha. It really does kind of read that way.
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Mar 27, 2016 04:23
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Rick Snyder is currently number one in this fortune magazine poll "the 19 most disappointing world leaders." http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/rank-most-disappointing-leaders/
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Mar 30, 2016 23:15
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The EPA was kind of a bad guy in this case, but the GOP using it as an excuse to abolish the EPA, instead of just reforming it, is a major red flag. Like, let's be real here. If it weren't for the EPA looming over our glorious Captains of Industry, every city in America would have one of those apocalyptic Beijing smog clouds and like radioactive asbestos in the tap water.
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Mar 30, 2016 23:40
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The only bad guy is Rick Snyder. He needs to be arrested.
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Mar 31, 2016 01:11
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i find the most incredulous aspect of this sort of thing is that if the water switchover, by some miracle, hadn't blown up horribly and had resulted in flint saving some amount of money (or lets be honest, even if it hadn't but could be spun to look like it did), synder would be all over it, claiming credit each step of the way. but when it turns out horribly, then all the Serious People in the room feel the need to ask "how much power/knowledge over this did synder really have? maybe he was blind deaf and mute the whole time, you can't really prove otherwise"
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Mar 31, 2016 05:17
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Rick Snyder is currently number one in this fortune magazine poll "the 19 most disappointing world leaders." Thought someone was going crazy by calling Snyder a world leader.HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:The only bad guy is Rick Snyder. He needs to be arrested.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:44
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deadly_pudding posted:The EPA was kind of a bad guy in this case, but the GOP using it as an excuse to abolish the EPA, instead of just reforming it, is a major red flag. Like, let's be real here. If it weren't for the EPA looming over our glorious Captains of Industry, every city in America would have one of those apocalyptic Beijing smog clouds and like radioactive asbestos in the tap water. Just one step closer to real life Dominion Tank Police Tiler Kiwi posted:i find the most incredulous aspect of this sort of thing is that if the water switchover, by some miracle, hadn't blown up horribly and had resulted in flint saving some amount of money (or lets be honest, even if it hadn't but could be spun to look like it did), synder would be all over it, claiming credit each step of the way. Someone doesn't have much experience with the Republican damage control team
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Mar 31, 2016 06:41
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SocketWrench posted:Someone doesn't have much experience with the Republican damage control team it is just damage control/"failing upwards" culture in general, really
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Mar 31, 2016 06:46
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Oooh, Justice Dept better start hiring lawyers well-versed in RICO law. Between this, FIFA, and the Panama Papers, it looks they're going to have a busy foreseeable future.Rawstory posted:A federal racketeering lawsuit by hundreds of resident in Flint, Michigan , is alleging the city’s two-year water crisis was the result of an“intentional scheme” crafted by state officials and Michigan governor Rick Snyder to balance the city’s budget.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:09
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Get hosed by the courts, Rick. I hope they bleed you and the current serving Michigan government dry for the rest of Flint's lives ontop of paying to purify Lake Huron and fixing the city's pipes.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:35
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