Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

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Palpek: Dec 27, 2008; Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.

I don't think the name Slav is a problem personally.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:56

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# ? May 9, 2024 02:44

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Palpek posted:

I don't think the name Slav is a problem personally.

It is some weird gimmick post of nondescript post-ironic racism flavour of sorts.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:58

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Can't post for 21 hours!; Soiled Meat

The English word Slav is really unpleasant to me, simply on an aesthetic level, so every time I see it used I subconsciously think it's a being used as a slur. I don't even think it has anything to do with being etymologically related to slave, it's just sounds ugly and hostile.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:02

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

steinrokkan posted:

The English word Slav is really unpleasant to me, simply on an aesthetic level, so every time I see it used I subconsciously think it's a being used as a slur. I don't even think it has anything to do with being etymologically related to slave, it's just sounds ugly and hostile.

If the shoe fits...

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:16

fuck off Batman: Oct 14, 2013; Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!

alex314 posted:

Czech Republic will probably change official english name to Czechia soon. Which made me thinking: can Slav nations pick new name for "Slav"? Thanks to Germans it's too close to "slave" for comfort. "Slovians" is too close to slow..

Ok, fine.

I propose Thrall(s). :black101:

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:17

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

Wikipedia says both words are connected and came from Eastern Roman Empire. No idea how valid it is.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:19

ass struggle: Dec 25, 2012; by Athanatos

I've always heard Slav is from slovo, I guess denoting people who share the same words.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:31

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Can't post for 21 hours!; Soiled Meat

sparatuvs posted:

I've always heard Slav is from slovo, I guess denoting people who share the same words.

Slavic words for "Slav" such as "slovan" originate from "slovo" or related words, however the Germanic words "slave", "Sklawe" etc. and "Slav", "Slave" etc. have the same root �n the medieval Latin "Sclavus", meaning Slav, which is in turn taken from Old Slavonic and Greek terms used in the Eastern Empire, which were in turn borrowed from Slavic sources which were naturally referring to themselves with names related to "slovo", which brings us back and closes the circle.

The Slavic lands were a large reservoir of slaves in early medieval times, for Europeans, Byzantines and Arabs alike.

steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Apr 14, 2016

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:35

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

Slave coming from slav by way of Byzantium is a pretty established theory I think.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:36

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Just go back a bit and call Slavs Sclaveni

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:44

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

I'm fine with Venedes.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 14:51

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

Lechites or bust

# ? Apr 14, 2016 15:06

Stefu: Feb 4, 2005

Of course the Finnish word for slave ('orja') comes from the same root as 'aryan' :smug:

# ? Apr 14, 2016 15:40

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

A Pale Horse posted:

Czechia sounds better and I like using it better than Czech republic so I hope they do it.

There was quite the kerfuffle in the Polish Sejm today as during the voting for a new PiS justice to the Constitutional Tribunal a MP for Kukiz 15 admitted to voting for another MP for Kukiz 15 who wasn't present in the Sejm. While this is normal in the U.S. and U.K. it is strictly forbidden in Poland and is in fact a crime. She was then stupid enough to admit it to a reporter for TVN and tried to justify herself by saying he gave her permission. Kukiz 15 has reacted by kicking her out of the party and demanding her resignation as an MP and the MP she voted for has also been removed from the party (although they allowed him to resign) and will be removed from the Sejm Ethics Committee. The interesting thing is the MP who was absent is Kornel Morawiecki, one of Kukiz 15s better known and well respected members, a former Solidarity leader and a darling of the far right. I have to say I'm surprised Kukiz 15 has the integrity to do this, if it was two PiS MPs they would claim it never happened and try to sweep it all under the rug while calling the opposition Gestapo Communist Traitors.

Morawiecki left Kukiz'15 because they tried to give him a suspension. Neither him nor Zwiercan want to resign as MPs, though.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 15:47

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

alex314 posted:

can Slav nations pick new name for "Slav"? Thanks to Germans it's too close to "slave" for comfort. "Slovians" is too close to slow..

It's going to be "Russian" in a couple years.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 15:54

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Stefu posted:

Of course the Finnish word for slave ('orja') comes from the same root as 'aryan'

Guess who defeated Mongolia horde. :godwin:

# ? Apr 14, 2016 16:22

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

kalstrams posted:

Guess who defeated Mongolia horde.

The European terrain where their horse archers got bogged down?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 18:01

snuggle baby luvs hugs: Aug 30, 2005

Doesn't Slava mean glory in a few Slavic languages? I always assumed that was the link

# ? Apr 14, 2016 18:13

Achernar: Sep 2, 2011

alex314 posted:

Czech Republic will probably change official english name to Czechia soon. Which made me thinking: can Slav nations pick new name for "Slav"? Thanks to Germans it's too close to "slave" for comfort. "Slovians" is too close to slow..

Why can't they go back to being called Bohemia? The fact that they're not a kingdom anymore?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 18:44

ass struggle: Dec 25, 2012; by Athanatos

never trust an elf posted:

Doesn't Slava mean glory in a few Slavic languages? I always assumed that was the link

Slava means glory. Slovo means word/language.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 18:47

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Can't post for 21 hours!; Soiled Meat

Achernar posted:

Why can't they go back to being called Bohemia? The fact that they're not a kingdom anymore?

Bohemia ("Čechy") used to be by far the most popular name for the country domestically, but then people started complaining that Bohemia is a historical region that doesn't include Moravia and Silesia, so slowly Czechia ("Česko") became the more popular way of referring to it. It emphasizes nationality rather than any particular region, and is more in line with how the names of other European countries are formed. Bohemia is now mostly used when referring to the region itself.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 19:04

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Does anyone care about Brno's feelings though?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 19:08

fuck off Batman: Oct 14, 2013; Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!

I don't think Silesia would mind, not anymore at least.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 19:18

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Can't post for 21 hours!; Soiled Meat

Baronjutter posted:

Does anyone care about Brno's feelings though?

It's better to let them think that they matter. Also it's kinda cute.

Disco Infiva posted:

I don't think Silesia would mind, not anymore at least.

Parts of historical Silesia are still in the CR.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 19:28

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Baronjutter posted:

Does anyone care about Brno's feelings though?

No, and IMO Bohemia sounds way cooler than Czechia anyway. CR's fine too, though, at least it's not People's Democratic too.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 19:41

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Well, getting rid of the "republic" bit feels honest to current development if anything.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 20:05

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

anilEhilated posted:

Well, getting rid of the "republic" bit feels honest to current development if anything.

Who's the new king and prince-elector?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 20:20

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Who's the new king and prince-elector?

The former publicly elected state clown is trying to whip up a dictatorship.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 20:20

Achernar: Sep 2, 2011

Honestly, I only think of it as Bohemia because I play too much Europa Universalis.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 20:30

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

Gantolandon posted:

Morawiecki left Kukiz'15 because they tried to give him a suspension. Neither him nor Zwiercan want to resign as MPs, though.

She may not have choice if the prosecutors office decides to pursue charges and the Sejm votes to rescind her immunity, which they will.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 21:00

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The Russian MFA replied to the letter I wrote to them, here's the full story to save you clicking this link

On April 6th 2016 Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova made the following statement about Bellingcat:

quote:

Bellingcat as an instrument to divert attention from investigating the tragedy of the Malaysian Boeing over Ukraine

We took note of an interview with Bellingcat representatives for the BBC in which they sarcastically spoke about some �trolling� on the part of the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign Ministry of Russia, for allegedly attacking them.

I would simply like to recall that we do not attack anyone, but rather, give our unbiased assessment of the work of both this group and those who use its materials as reliable information.

We understand the purpose of this group�s activities. Acting jointly with the current Ukrainian authorities, they continue to use all possible �fakes,� to create quasi-evidence to blame Russia. Why do we take this position and on what is it based? Even now the commission (investigating the circumstances of the Boeing tragedy over the territory of Ukraine) prefers to ignore Russia�s reasoning, which is corroborated by facts and evidence, in particular by tests and experiments. The commission ignores it to the extent that it makes no reply to this reasoning, while at the same time passing off these �fakes� for the hundredth time as proof or integrated evidence, even when this information has been debunked, and not only by Russia.

At present, we have information,that leads us to believe that loyal and handy witnesses in this case are being selected and presumably trained. This begs the question: why is all this being done? The aim is once again to give the global community fabricated proof of Russia�s aggression. This seems blasphemous in this case, because people died there and their families want to know the truth. One may endlessly combine all these invented stories and collect evidence allegedly found on social media sites and at the same time ignore the results of experiments, including those provided by Russia. All this can be done only if you neglect to consider one thing: this case is not just an information campaign, it involves human lives, the destinies of the victims� families, who definitely want to know the truth.

The opening of the statement appears to refer to the BBC article Twitter�s role in modern warfare in which Bellingcat founder Eliot Higgins is featured:

quote:

Eliot Higgins, the founder of Bellingcat, a company that crowdsources information about the Syrian and Ukrainian conflicts, found himself a target, particularly over Bellingcat�s investigation identifying the missile launcher said to be responsible for shooting down flight MH17.

�I started off by posting a lot on the Guardian live blog comments before I started my own blogs and some of the people from that followed me on to Twitter and still disagree with me strongly and vocally there up until today, five years later,� he says.

�What�s been interesting for me is having this Syria community of trolls and the community of pro-Russian trolls that built up around MH17 and my work, now coming together after Russia�s involvement in Syria. It�s nice to bring people together, even when it�s in their mutual and obsessive hatred of one person.

�Recently we�ve even had the Russian Ministry of Defence and Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs putting out statements attacking Bellingcat. They seem to be basing it on what the trolls are saying,� he adds.

Bellingcat was concerned about the allegations made by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the statement, and contacted the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, along with the Russian Defence Ministry, which has made similar allegations, with the following message:

quote:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Both the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Defense have accused Bellingcat of preparing �open falsifications,� passing off �fakes,� using �faked posts,� and making �pseudo-hypotheses.� Bellingcat has never created fake information, and has never included �faked posts� as evidence in its investigations. After months of false accusations in official press conferences, we request that the government of the Russian Federation provide specific examples of the �fakes� and false evidence that are supposedly published by Bellingcat.

Additionally, on April 6, the spokesperson for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs accused Bellingcat of �acting jointly with the current Ukrainian authorities.� Bellingcat has never acted jointly with any body of the Ukrainian government. We request any proof held by the government of the Russian Federation that Bellin gcat has cooperated with the Ukrainian�or any other�government in its research or publications.

The government of the Russian Federation seems very concerned with providing an �unbiased assessment,� in the words of spokesperson Zakharova, of the work of Bellingcat. We request concrete proof to support its accusations.

Yours sincerely,

Eliot Higgins, Bellingcat

On April 14th the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has replied with the following (translated from Russian):

quote:

Dear Mr. Higgins,

In your letter, you claim that at the April 6 briefing the MFA�s spokeswoman Maria Zakharova allegedly accused the website you head of cooperation with Ukrainian authorities. However, when she mentioned a group cooperating with the current Ukrainian Authorities, Maria Zakharova did not refer to Bellingcat, but to the Joint Investigation Team investigating the MH17 tragedy in the skies over Ukraine. This investigation team does cooperate with Ukrainian authorities, but instead of analyzing Russian evidence, substantiated and proven by experiments, such as the Russian Ministry of Defense data, which is, by the way, publicly available, prefers to ignore it and repeatedly refers to unproven and in some cases simply ridiculous Bellingcat �stories�.

It is well known that Bellingcat �expert assessments� has been called into question even by the Western media due to them being unproven and lacking confirmed factual material. You can check it by yourself by googling in the �world wide web�, especially since you consider yourself an Internet search professional.

However, even if we suppose Maria Zakharova did state you cooperated with Kiev, it is surprising that you regard a connection with Ukrainian authorities as an offense, given that some of the most cited sources in Bellingcat reports are information disseminated precisely by Ukrainian state agencies. One example is the official YouTube channel of the Security Service of Ukraine. However, you never use information provided by other sides in your research, which is what leads one to suspecting you of bias.

Kind regards,

Information and Press Department of the Russian MFA

Bellingcat has replied, again asking for evidence of Russia�s accusations:

quote:

Dear Sir/Madam,

We note, as with your earlier statements on Bellingcat, you yet again fail to provide any specific examples of fakery by Bellingcat, despite our earlier email making several requests for those examples. Despite our best efforts, our searches have discovered no such article in any recognised �Western media�, so we would appreciate you providing specific references in reply to this email. I�m sure the Russian Foreign Ministry is not in the habit of making libellous claims about organisations it cannot back up with firm evidence, so we await with great interest the evidence of Bellingcat�s fakery that you will provide in your reply.

Regarding the claims Bellingcat is working with Ukrainian authorities, if this was a misreading of the statement published by the Russian Foreign Ministry then we apologise. Having reread the statement it is clear there is only one way this could be read in light of your reply. As a reminder, here�s the text again:

We took note of an interview with Bellingcat representatives for the BBC in which they sarcastically spoke about some �trolling� on the part of the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign Ministry of Russia, for allegedly attacking them.

I would simply like to recall that we do not attack anyone, but rather, give our unbiased assessment of the work of both this group and those who use its materials as reliable information.

We understand the purpose of this group�s activities. Acting jointly with the current Ukrainian authorities, they continue to use all possible �fakes,� to create quasi-evidence to blame Russia.

For perfect clarity about these remarks in light of your reply, can you confirm this statement, which you reply appears to state is referring to the JIT, is definitely referring to the JIT:

Acting jointly with the current Ukrainian authorities, they continue to use all possible �fakes,� to create quasi-evidence to blame Russia.

If that is the case, is the Russian government planning to present evidence of the JIT using fakes, and details of the �quasi-evidence� they�ve created using these fakes? If the Russian government does have such evidence of clear manipulation by the JIT then I�m sure the public in Russia, the Netherlands, and elsewhere would be extremely interested in seeing your evidence, so I would strongly urge you to publish such evidence.

Regarding your comment on your perception that we were insulted by what we believed was your claim we were working with the Ukraine authorities to �use all possible �fakes,� to create quasi-evidence to blame Russia� (which you now seem to be saying was a reference to the JIT) I believe you may have mistaken our reaction. We were merely noting that the Russian Foreign Ministry would make a statement with no basis in fact, and with no evidence to support the claim, and curious to see what evidence the Russian Foreign Ministry had to make such claims. However, if you�re now saying it was the JIT using �all possible �fakes,� to create quasi-evidence to blame Russia� we look forward to publication of evidence the Russian government has to support these allegations.

Your final comments refers to your perceived bias in our work as we, as you put it, �never use information provided by other sides in your research�. We have in fact examined all the evidence presented by the Russian Defence Ministry, in particular the July 21st 2014 press conference on MH17. However, when we attempted to verify the claims it became quickly apparent the Russian Defence Ministry had lied repeatedly about the evidence it presented. We have evidenced this at length (we find providing evidence is a powerful and compelling methodology) and we have been told by numerous journalists that their attempts to get comments from the Russian Defence Ministry on our accusations have been met with no response. Is this a subject the Russian Foreign Ministry would be willing to comment on?

Kind regards

Eliot Higgins

As before, we await their reply, and their evidence.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 21:23

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

Do you expect them to actually respond with anything other than nonsense?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 21:38

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

A Pale Horse posted:

She may not have choice if the prosecutors office decides to pursue charges and the Sejm votes to rescind her immunity, which they will.

Why would they? PiS controls the Sejm majority and they already tried to shelter her. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she joined them some time later.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 21:39

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

NAT-T Ice posted:

Do you expect them to actually respond with anything other than nonsense?

I didn't expect them to respond in the first place so anything is a bonus.

Also note in their they make some pretty serious allegations about the official JIT investigation, so that's something.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 21:41

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

Gantolandon posted:

Why would they? PiS controls the Sejm majority and they already tried to shelter her. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she joined them some time later.

Its an easy PR win for them. They get to kick out and possibly prosecute a crooked, (technically) opposition politician and look like they're doing the right thing. Letting her join after she was kicked out of Kukiz for committing a crime doesn't seem like a winning strategy or look good at all to anyone who isn't already a PiS diehard. I haven't had time to read the article yet but from a headline I saw it looks like Morawiecki threw her under the bus already too. Then again PiS doesn't seem too concerned about looking like a bunch of incompetent malicious idiots with everything else so who knows.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 21:50

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

In other news, my internet poo poo the bed last night so I didn't get to play the Putin Direct Line drinking game. Did I miss anything of note? Scraps from social media indicate there were questions about Putin's favorite type of kasha. I am quite eager to know.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 21:57

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

NAT-T Ice posted:

In other news, my internet poo poo the bed last night so I didn't get to play the Putin Direct Line drinking game. Did I miss anything of note? Scraps from social media indicate there were questions about Putin's favorite type of kasha. I am quite eager to know.

A 12 year old asked this question

https://twitter.com/KremlinRussia_E/status/720611799133986817

# ? Apr 14, 2016 22:05

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Totally-unrelated-to-the-press-conference: the worker who asked a year ago about him and his colleagues not getting paid for building the
Vostochniy Kosmodrome has been arrested for 5 days. (And he still hasn't gotten his salary).

There also have been a bunch of FSB raids aimed at pressuring the owner of the RBC news agency to someone who would be less prone to let them do some
occasional journalism.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 22:37

hypnorotic: May 4, 2009

Has anyone read A Very Expensive Poison: The Definitive Story of the Murder of Litvinenko and Russia�s War with the West? This review makes that whole story very interesting. Can anyone recommend it?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 23:48

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# ? May 9, 2024 02:44

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

A Pale Horse posted:

Its an easy PR win for them. They get to kick out and possibly prosecute a crooked, (technically) opposition politician and look like they're doing the right thing. Letting her join after she was kicked out of Kukiz for committing a crime doesn't seem like a winning strategy or look good at all to anyone who isn't already a PiS diehard. I haven't had time to read the article yet but from a headline I saw it looks like Morawiecki threw her under the bus already too. Then again PiS doesn't seem too concerned about looking like a bunch of incompetent malicious idiots with everything else so who knows.

Let me tell you what else doesn't look good to anyone that isn't a PiS diehard:

promising to pass a total abortion ban along with possibly prosecuting women for miscarriage
passing a law making buying agrarian land more difficult and leaving an exception for the Church

They are past giving fucks at this point and they already tried to defend Zwiercan. Nothing is going to happen to her at least until the next elections.

Also, Morawiecki seems far from throwing her under the bus:

quote:

Dodał r�wnież, że definitywnie kończy działalność w Kukiz'15, ponieważ nie zgadza się na udawanie, że posł�w nie ma na sali i usiłowanie w ten spos�b do osiągnięcia braku kworum w Sejmie. - Skończyłem działalność w Ruchu Kukiza. Panią poseł Zwiercan wyrzucono, mnie chciano zawiesić, więc odszedłem. I to już koniec - powiedział.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 00:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

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