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Glory of God as our Reformation, Iron Working into Colossus as our next tech followed closely by Construction -> Civil Service -> Education, and to finish it all of AVE MARIA! GLORY TO THE ROYAL ORACLE!
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Apr 19, 2016 13:35
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ModeWondershot posted:We get a notification that Buddhists are on the scene, meaning that an Eastern or Central Asian civ with a slightly lesser focus on religion is on scene. The fact that it is Buddhism, however, tells me only one thing: Oh goody. One of my least favorite AI neighbors in this game after Greece and, if I share an early land border, the Aztecs/Huns/Zulus. An eye-searing color scheme does not help. I also could have sworn Indonesia and Korea go Buddhist if they get first pick, but the wiki says nope, they prefer Hinduism and Confucianism respectively.
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Apr 19, 2016 14:38
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Anticheese posted:Yeah, I'd like to see how early-game tourism can be used to your advantage.
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Apr 19, 2016 14:58
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Poil posted:It's pretty sweet if you're playing as Byzantium and manage to get 3 buildings. You're pumping out so much tourism you can win before the internet. Before the Internet? If you really know what's up, you can win before Ideologies; if you take every mechanic in the game and bend it nearly to the point of snapping, you can win in the BC years.
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Apr 19, 2016 15:42
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Cythereal posted:Oh goody. One of my least favorite AI neighbors in this game after Greece and, if I share an early land border, the Aztecs/Huns/Zulus. An eye-searing color scheme does not help. Indonesia goes Confucian, not Islamic? That makes no sense
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Apr 19, 2016 18:25
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Slaan posted:Indonesia goes Confucian, not Islamic? That makes no sense No, Indonesia goes Hindu. Korea goes Confucian.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:26
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Slaan posted:Indonesia goes Confucian, not Islamic? That makes no sense
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Apr 19, 2016 18:45
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For those curious, here's the default religious choice for every civ in the game. America: Protestantism Arabia: Islam Assyria: Zoroastrianism Austria: Catholicism Aztecs: Catholicism Babylon: Islam Brazil: Catholicism Byzantium: Eastern Orthodoxy Carthage: Islam Celts: Catholicism China: Taoism Denmark: Catholicism Egypt: Islam England: Protestantism Ethiopia: Eastern Orthodoxy France: Catholicism Germany: Protestantism Greece: Eastern Orthodoxy Huns: Tengriism Inca: Catholicism India: Hinduism Indonesia: Hinduism Iroquois: Protestantism Japan: Shinto Korea: Confucianism Mayans: Catholicism Mongols: Tengriism Morocco: Islam Netherlands: Protestantism Ottomans: Islam Persia: Zoroastrianism Poland: Catholicism Polynesia: Catholicism Portugal: Catholicism Rome: Catholicism Russia: Eastern Orthodoxy Shoshone: Protestantism Siam: Buddhism Songhai: Islam Spain: Catholicism Sweden: Protestantism Venice: Catholicism Zulus: Protestantism Religions are assigned on a first-come, first-serve basis. If a civ's preferred religion is already taken when they found a religion, they then proceed to pick at random. There's a few ways this can indicate your potential peers. One, the first religion founded always means it's someone's first choice. While this doesn't mean much for, say, Catholicism or Islam (and almost all of the religious powerhouse civs default to one of these two), Zoroastrianism and Tengriism both narrow it down to two, and Shinto and Buddhism are both unique, thus we know Civ5's resident permanent shirtless scene is around. However, there are also some other metagamey indicators. If you see Catholicism go up really early, that means the Celts are around due to their special ability (with exceptions if anyone lucks out with a faith producing natural wonder - especially Spain). Eastern Orthodoxy and Islam going up very early are generally good signs Ethiopia and Songhai, respectively, are on the map. Catholicism going up fast but not Celt fast tends to indicate Mayans. One other quirk to religion in Civ5 is that Judaism is around as a selectable religion, but is no one's default pick. You only see the AI go Jewish by random draw if their preferred choice is already taken.
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Apr 19, 2016 18:47
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Actually, if I remember correctly, once a civ's preferred religion is taken they will default to selecting by alphabetical order - Buddhism shows up almost every game, Zoroastrianism is a surefire sign of Assyria or Persia regardless of when it founds. I can't recall at what point the rival religion founded, but if it was after our own it may not quite be the omen of frustration that some people are taking it for.
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Apr 19, 2016 21:35
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Cythereal posted:One other quirk to religion in Civ5 is that Judaism is around as a selectable religion, but is no one's default pick. You only see the AI go Jewish by random draw if their preferred choice is already taken. Yeah, it's why I usually tend to go Judaic in all my games. Have to give the Star of David some love too. Same thing in Civ IV actually, but that's more because the AIs tend to beeline Buddhism and Hinduism before I even get the chance.
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Apr 19, 2016 22:29
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Luhood posted:Yeah, it's why I usually tend to go Judaic in all my games. Have to give the Star of David some love too. Same thing in Civ IV actually, but that's more because the AIs tend to beeline Buddhism and Hinduism before I even get the chance. I did that in my last game, where I played as Spain and lucked out getting Mount Fuji and Uluru on my starting islands. I proceeded to turn almost the entire world Jewish, even smothering Islam, Confucianism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Zoroastrianism in their own holy cities via overwhelming interlocking religious pressure. 
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Apr 19, 2016 22:39
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Cythereal posted:I did that in my last game, where I played as Spain and lucked out getting Mount Fuji and Uluru on my starting islands. I proceeded to turn almost the entire world Jewish, even smothering Islam, Confucianism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Zoroastrianism in their own holy cities via overwhelming interlocking religious pressure. There is nothing more satisfying than defeating Missionary Spammers on their own home turf, without having to resort to Missionaries yourself.
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Apr 19, 2016 23:53
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Jewish Aztecs 4Lyfe
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Apr 20, 2016 00:20
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Luhood posted:There is nothing more satisfying than defeating Missionary Spammers on their own home turf, without having to resort to Missionaries yourself. Also, a tip for the AI: if you're right next to Spain with Mount Fuji and Uluru, who has already thoroughly converted you and all your neighbors, don't be surprised if you found a new religion and it's immediately drowned out by Spain's religion. As learned by China, Persia, and Babylon. Did have to use a Great Prophet on Moscow to knock out Eastern Orthodoxy, though.
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Apr 20, 2016 00:28
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Cythereal posted:
Which is why I think it's not assured that it's the specifically Buddhist civ who founded that religion. On that list there are a looooooooooooooooot of Catholic civs, which is you know, the religion we founded, so they might pick something else. Like Buddhism! It's just as likely to be one of those. Also Oracle, Theology, and Glory of God. We kind of don't have anything else to do at the moment except spam wonders and snapping up the three religious ones from Theology is a pretty good bet to bolster religion...but we also don't have anything to do with our religion at the moment, so getting some Great People online is as good a use of Faith as we're going to get at the moment.
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Apr 20, 2016 09:47
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Pvt.Scott posted:Jewish Aztecs 4Lyfe  Bris. 
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Apr 20, 2016 10:29
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Anticheese posted:
Volcanic glass can hold a finer edge than steel, and certainly copper or iron, so the snip should be a snap!
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Apr 20, 2016 14:47
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Gyra_Solune posted:Which is why I think it's not assured that it's the specifically Buddhist civ who founded that religion. On that list there are a looooooooooooooooot of Catholic civs, which is you know, the religion we founded, so they might pick something else. Like Buddhism! It's just as likely to be one of those. I thought about mentioning that, but was briefly confused that Portugal's religion in this LP isn't actually named Catholicism. The symbol's taken, though, so I think that might do it. My current game is playing Venice, and the Huns came over to convert Venice to Shinto. I suppose I'll have to Fourth Crusade Attila's Court for the achievement.  That kind of absurdity is one of the things that keeps me coming back to the Civilization series. Shinto Venetians contemplating an assault on the Shinto holy city of Attila's Court while hobnobbing with Confucian Aztecs through the newest member of the Most Serene Republic of Venice, Sydney.
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Apr 20, 2016 15:14
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Pvt.Scott posted:Volcanic glass can hold a finer edge than steel, and certainly copper or iron, so the snip should be a snap! It more brittle though, so while it wont wear down, fatigue can make it erode or break leaving tiny bits of that glass behind at some point.
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Apr 20, 2016 18:39
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FINAL VOTE TALLY Reformation: Jesuit Education: 5 To The Glory of God: 4 Sacred Sites: 2 Thanks for the suggestions for alternate Reformations. I have not used To the Glory of God before but I can see how it would be helpful for just about any victory type given how Faith can accumulate in late game. Also, Sacred Sites can be useful in early culture victories, but the problem we run into here is that our isolation prevents that early Tourism from being usable before distant neighbours shore up their culture game. Consequently, the bonus is less effective the longer it takes to come into play. Technology: Mathematics: 5 Iron Working: 3 Theology: 2 Construction: 1 Mining: 1 Metal Casting: 1 This result presents a problem. I had asked that the thread decide between Mathematics and Theology specifically, since my goal is to get to Astronomy as fast as possible to get off this island. However, it seems as though a number of you want to see me detour into Iron Working first so that I can seize the Colossus and take more advantage of the extra trade ship and route that it affords. The problem here is that if we go by most votes based on the request I made, Mathematics wins, but with 6 votes for alternatives predicated on researching Mining, then we could also say Mining wins. I'll see what can be done to get a satisfactory result. Oracle: Literally no one said no, so we are going for it. Update to follow most likely tomorrow.
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Apr 20, 2016 23:57
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 Having codified Sebastião's Laws into a vellum scroll bound with a wrapping of sanctified elephant leather, the archivist carefully placed the scroll atop its pedestal in the central hall of the Universidade de Lisboa. The building itself was not yet complete and only a few philosophers and spiritual men had been brought forward to begin crafting a more authoritative body of documents, but the National College was indeed going to be finished in short order. One important step in this process involved the formalization of the Universidade's administration to bring it in line with that of the clergy, and this process of unification would form the basis of any future collegiate development in the likes of Luanda.  However, great minds in the Lisboan city centre found themselves in a conundrum. They had heard rumours that their neighbours in the Vancouverian lands were digging through the earth for minerals and stones useful in their own building projects, and considered the possibility that those techniques would be useful in the city going forward. However, another group felt that there was an equally great value in directing their attentions towards formalizing a system of weights and measures, as well as theoretical principles governing the use of basic numbers, in order to better make sense of their surroundings.  The debates concerning the relative merits of these proposals echoed through the empty halls of the Universidade for days, until finally both groups began approaching something of a realistic compromise and began the work of formulating a plan for going forward. That is, until Dona Maria found them.  Freshly returned from Luanda, and absolutely livid, the Queen demanded to know what had happened to her friend and confidant Sebastião in her absence. When the philosophers present informed her that he had died in his grand effort to save souls of his countrymen, Dona Maria fell quite still. Through gritted teeth, she demanded to know exactly how the men and women in the Universidade intended to honour his memory, and instructed them to focus all their attention and creativity on ways that they might be able to properly memorialize the great man, as well as devote greater focus to the study of his laws and the principles behind them...  Our Warrior will move somewhat erratically going forward, as there is little for him to do other than cover Fog of War areas with line of sight in order to check for Barbarian units inland.  The Trireme, however, will continue the process of circumnavigation, as therein lies the possibility that we can spot something further away than it did originally. (The notification in the corner that I did not highlight indicates that Confucianism has been founded. Could mean Korea given there is a high-Science Civ here, but it might not be for reasons Glidergun and Gyra_Solune mentioned of which I was not originally aware.)   At this point, we become keenly aware that we are not the only Civ to pick Piety, and we were lucky to pick up the first Reformation bonus when we did.  The Trireme, sailors refreshed from a brief stop close to home, begin the task of scouring the north, but stop close to Riga in order to see if there is anything they might have missed.  The Warriors, meanwhile, carefully inspect the dig site Vancouver has created for itself, with instructions to bring back any useful findings to the Universidade. The strange new design of the Vancouverian bows is also cause for concern  The world continues to turn, and great men like Sebastião do God's work throughout the world.  Yet the sailors know just how small the world really is.  Still, it is easy for people in Lisboa to imagine that somehow, their great plans and projects are being conceived elsewhere.  The world can seem like such a lonely place, though, and with even Vancouver slipping away, there is little that... The Trireme's captain is shaken awake by one of his subordinates, who excitedly directs him to point his spyglass towards the northern coast. He repeats the word he was shouting across the deck moments ago much more calmly: "Terra."  It was said that a philosopher in Lisboa heard the word carried along an ocean wind, and so set about constructing a small shrine to remain in isolation and ponder the mysteries of the future.   He would not live to see his project complete, but would rather instruct his students to carry it on in his stead.   Other students of the faith, meanwhile, decided to bring their endeavours to a much more public eye. They spent their lives expressing their joyous devotion in the streets, and created great towers of ivory as symbols of their desire to take to the skies like the hunting hawks they saw through the glass of their telescopes.  These joys, however, were lost on their fellows in Vancouver, who seemed more determined to find happiness somewhere underground, and as they lost sight of the world above them, so too did their gifts of friendship slowly stop arriving. (The other Notification says that someone else built the Terracotta Army Wonder, which doubles your existing army size.)  The people of Luanda, pleased with their completed waterwheel, then decided to look into formalizing a Worker corps similar to the one Lisboa had sent to assist them, so that they might more efficiently set about the creation of public works.  Riga, meanwhile, had shown signs of dissatisfaction with their own lives, and sought spiritual guidance from their counterparts in Portugal. Dona Maria was happy with the news, but disappointed that no one in her employ seemed capable enough to both explain Sebastião's Laws adequately and translate it to the Rigan's peculiar language.  Nevertheless, Riga remained a profitable trading partner, even more so than Vancouver, and cotton, ivory, spices and horses continued to journey between cities.  It was then that a number of plans for new buildings to honour Sebastião's memory arrived at Dona Maria's ivory throne. She simply smiled at the architect and said that they seemed adequate before sending him on his way.  The architect was said to have been overjoyed at this response, and that joy seemed palpable in the streets, as people became aware that a new era of wonder and possibility lay bare before them.  The Warriors, returned from Vancouver, gave the Universidade instructions on the methods that the Vancouverians used to extract stones from the earth. The teachers present smiled, as they understood not only the simplicity of the techniques, but began already developing ideas on how to improve upon them.   Portugal's star was rising, slowly but surely.  More secrets to unlock, as the Trireme had reported that the angry-looking people on the far side of the ocean appeared to be wielding staves fastened with some sort of sharpened, shining earthenware.  The Workers continued diligently about their tasks, securing food for future generations of hunters.  The thinkers and philosophers took to the earth with a calm ferocity, learning more secrets within their lifetimes than Vancouverians did in generations. Lisboa was once known as a city that trained proud hunters of elephants, but now it gained reknown for the ferocity with which its men hunted ideas.  Luanda, though lacking a Universidade, was no less determined to express their joyous devotion, even if their understanding of Sebastião's Laws was...incomplete to say the least.  However, there remain other, faraway lands where distant people must be drawing their own conclusions about the nature of their lives and the lives of others. If they do not recognize the importance of their place in the world, then how are they to learn, or experience the joy that the hunt brings?  The Worker corps of Luanda, having learned from the best, set about creating their own hunting fields, though they are also careful to collect taxes from the animals as their Queen taught them.  All the while, other people go about their lives, seeking greatness and knowledge on their own terms, though what they have yet to accomplish is a mystery...  Yet, the Portuguese are becoming ever more understanding of mysteries.  It seems that nothing eludes them anymore, and they are just getting started.  Determined to seize on as many opportunities as possible, Dona Maria contracts a group of Luandan traders and merchants to construct an exact replica of the waterwheel in Luanda in Lisboa, and with the wealth offered, they complete the task all but immediately.    However, she remains determined to properly immortalize her fallen friend, and sets her mid towards determining how best her people can do so. The future belongs to Portugal. All that is needed is an inkling of where to go next. It will be your decision where we go next. With a little bit happening at a time throughout this update, followed by a lot happening all at once, here is the deal: We have a lot of Wonder options before us, and you have all made it clear that you want me to go after as many of them as I can in this early game (I'm not called ModeWondershot for no reason, but this isn't necessarily the reason I had in mind). However, we will almost certainly not get one or two of these, as while we are first to the Medieval Era, someone else is close behind and everyone else seems to be closing in relatively quickly. Our options for next World Wonder construction are as follows:     (Note that the Great Mosque of Djenne is a little disingenuous about its yields. Since it provides a free Mosque, its total yields are more accurately +1 Happiness, +3 Culture, +6 Faith, +1 Great Engineer Point, as well as the Missionary bonus. Also, the Hagia Sophia will give a "Free" Temple, but unless I am mistaken, this will only eliminate maintenance costs on our existing Temple in Lisboa, meaning +2 Gold saved. I just noticed I missed the Parthenon in the above list. I really don't think we are going to get the Parthenon, so I really can't recommend picking it.) Second, because the Oracle and our next Culture milestone fired on the same turn, we can pick TWO new Social Policies! Also, because we have advanced an Era, two more Social Policy trees are available in Commerce and Exploration. Here is a little about them: Commerce improves Gold yield in the Capital by 25% and lets us build Big Ben as a Wonder. The policies therein are mostly focused on money, but oddly enough it is more about alternate uses for money and money-generating buildings than necessarily accruing more money. Among other things, it makes gold-generating buildings generate Science as well, decreases the cost of Roads and causes Luxury resources we have to give an extra +2 Happiness. It is a strange tree, but a potentially good investment for future wealth-building. Exploration immediately gives +1 Movement and Sight range to boats (and yes, this stacks with Great Lighthouse) and allows the building of the Louvre museum as a Wonder. This is a very mixed-bag tree with benefits to Production on coasts, Happiness from lighthouses, ports and harbours, Bonus gold and culture yields, and a minor focus on naval warfare. I really, really want to get Exploration. I feel as though I am not playing Portugal correctly if I don't go into Exploration at some point. However, there is also the matter of our Piety tree. We can use the next two policies to finish the tree, which gives us a free Great Prophet, a Culture yield to Holy Sites which Great Prophets can create, and all the additional benefits of getting Theocracy (Gold from Temples and Holy Sites) and Mandate of Heaven (-20% cost to things bought with Faith). Thus, I can recommend two options going forward: Finish Piety or Choose another Tree to enter Once again, I will follow the thread's lead if any particular alternatives are recommended, and I'll try not to go off on any more tangents like the one that started this update. If you were dissatisfied with the results, then Voting will close on Saturday night! Até Sabado!
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Apr 21, 2016 23:11
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Great Mosque of Djenne and All right, fine, Exploration
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Apr 21, 2016 23:29
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All the piety. All the wonders. I really like the quote for the oracle. 
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Apr 21, 2016 23:48
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Ok, the gently caress? How and why does a Prince AI manage to fill out a social tree by turn 89? Piety, even, which has no culture boosters. (Or in alternative, how can it generate 300 faith in two turns at this stage of the game?) Piety, Great Mosque and Maths. Go into Exploration later on.
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Apr 21, 2016 23:49
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Colossus, Exploration
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Apr 21, 2016 23:54
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Omobono posted:Ok, the gently caress? How and why does a Prince AI manage to fill out a social tree by turn 89? Piety, even, which has no culture boosters.
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Apr 21, 2016 23:57
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Colossus, Exploration, and bee-line to Astronomy! There is religion to be spread, and money to be made by spreading it!
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Apr 22, 2016 00:04
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Omobono posted:Ok, the gently caress? How and why does a Prince AI manage to fill out a social tree by turn 89? Piety, even, which has no culture boosters. There is no way an AI generated 300 faith in 2 turns. It most likely finished Piety on turn 87 and used its free prophet (It's truly free, like the Oracle policy) from the Piety finisher to found the religion. The game delays your Reformation until the turn after you get a religion if you pick it as a policy before you actually get a religion, so it got to pick its Reformation on turn 88. Then on turn 89, it got its 1st prophet via faith and enhanced the religion. It's not entirely unreasonable to get multiple prophets quickly, I once got 3 in 3 turns. Anyway, finish Piety and build the Colossus. biscuits and crazy fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 00:06
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Finish Piety. Finishing trees is usually better than starting new ones. Also Mosque. We'd get a new Prophet from finishing Piety and the savings on the temple probably pale in comparison to the free Mosque and its boons
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Apr 22, 2016 00:09
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Finish Piety, and then build a Massive Bronze Statue in honour of Sebastião's greatness, with a great fire to guide the flock to its shepherd!
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Apr 22, 2016 00:47
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Build a giant statue of Sebastião, a Colossus in honor of the great man. Then Finish Piety.
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Apr 22, 2016 01:26
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Finish piety and Build the Colossus. Gold shall flow like manna from the slopes of great Kilimanjaro.
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Apr 22, 2016 01:27
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Is it just me, or is the description of Theology a little... pointed? I approve, but it's not something one usually sees in a video game like this. At least the Oracle's description is only snarky.ModeWondershot posted:The world can seem like such a lonely place, though, and with even Vancouver slipping away, there is little that...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc  Anyway... Exploration can wait. Finish Piety first. Grab the Colossus, and the Great Mosque. Skip Borobudur.
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Apr 22, 2016 03:15
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Exploration and Mosque.
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Apr 22, 2016 04:41
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The Colossus seems proper for a civ rooted in Maritime trade, as does Exploration. I'm always amused by the Mausoleum slightly breaking the text box. I somehow never noticed that the technology ranking list said mostest literate.  E: Oh, and as far as I'm aware the Teracotta Army only makes one duplicate of each unit type, so only a perfectly diverse army will be doubled in size. AlphaKretin fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 05:01
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quote:Terracotta Army Wonder, which doubles your existing army size Inaccurate. The result is technically true, but it doesn't actually do so. It creates one of each TYPE of military unit you possess, and puts the new ones near the capital; One Infantry(like the warrior or swordsman), one Ranged, one Siege, one Cavalry, potentially one Armour or even Air if you could somehow keep the damm thing from being built for that long. I'm not sure if Spearmen are properly counted separate from normal Infantry. I think the scout counts as it's own thing and gets cloned too. Anyway, the point is, if you have 5 Warriors, you don't have 10 afterwards, you have 6. I presume that if you had 4 Warriors and 1 Swordsman, you'd get the Swordsman. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 06:59
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Bloodly posted:Inaccurate. The result is technically true, but it doesn't actually do so. It creates one of each TYPE of military unit you possess, and puts the new ones near the capital; One Infantry(like the warrior or swordsman), one Ranged, one Siege, one Cavalry, potentially one Armour or even Air if you could somehow keep the damm thing from being built for that long. I'm not sure if Spearmen are properly counted separate from normal Infantry. I think the scout counts as it's own thing and gets cloned too. Close, but still not there; it gives you an extra copy of each distinct name of unit. If you have an Archer and a Composite Bowman, you'll get an extra copy of each. I'm pretty sure if you have both a UU and the unit it replaces, like a Legion and a Swordsman (probably from a Militaristic city-state gift) you'll also end up getting an extra copy of each.
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Apr 22, 2016 07:29
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That's what I was trying to say but maybe I should have been more verbose. Not sure how it treats Air but the point is to replicate ground units - excluding boats too - so I doubt it would affect those.
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Apr 22, 2016 08:29
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Great Mosque of Djenne and Exploration
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Apr 22, 2016 12:00
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Can I vote for 1 Piety and Open Exploration? If not, Exploration.
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Apr 22, 2016 14:11
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