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I said come in! posted:We've already brought in over 750,000 from the middle east since 9/11. I would've assumed you'd be opposed to Guantanamo.
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May 9, 2016 22:06
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Pawn 17 posted:All the anti illegal immigration stuff like building a wall and deporting immigrants might sound good ("dey took er jebs!") to some people, but in practice it's really stupid and would gently caress up many local economies. i am in favor of unlimited Mexican immigration but the "Americans won't do these jobs" argument is bullshit. Americans do all kinds of lovely jobs for minimum wage. The argument is really "Americans won't do these jobs for below minimum wage, and they expect to have some minimal level of legal recourse for mistreatment" and that is what is unacceptable to the people that employ them. I remember years ago seeing some scumbag orange farmer on the news saying "we pay up to $12 an hour to pick fruit but its hard work so nobody but Mexicans wants to do it" and I imagine that most people see that and go "oh drat Americans are lazy". but they don't realize that the pickers get paid by how much they pick and to even make minimum wage you have to be superhuman. So that orange farmer was full of poo poo like all of the other employers that pretend they can't get legal American people to do Mexican jobs. They just won't pay what it takes to attract American workers because they don't have to.
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May 9, 2016 22:09
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Like i love it when businesses complain "we need more workers but nobody wants to work! (for the lovely pay were offering)
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May 9, 2016 22:10
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City of Tampa posted:i am in favor of unlimited Mexican immigration but the "Americans won't do these jobs" argument is bullshit. Does the farmer pay unemployment and other taxes on these workers?
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May 9, 2016 22:17
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Darth123123 posted:Does the farmer pay unemployment and other taxes on these workers? *muffled laughter*
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May 9, 2016 22:19
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Arian_Samurai posted:Genetically engineer fruit that picks itself pretty sure that was already accomplished by your parents
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May 9, 2016 22:19
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Pawn 17 posted:All the anti illegal immigration stuff like building a wall and deporting immigrants might sound good ("dey took er jebs!") to some people, but in practice it's really stupid and would gently caress up many local economies. I posted about this earlier and a bunch of Trump supporters came out in full force to tell me that Americans are absolutely willing to do any and all jobs for the greater good of the country.
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May 9, 2016 22:20
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Mange Mite posted:*muffled laughter* Yeah I knew that, but how much is it they are loving the good ol us of a out of that they love so much?
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May 9, 2016 22:22
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I said come in! posted:I posted about this earlier and a bunch of Trump supporters came out in full force to tell me that Americans are absolutely willing to do any and all jobs for the greater good of the country. Do you care at all about the economies of the lands people are coming from? I dunno, but it seems like a poor trade if you're taking a 3rd world doctor away from the country that paid to train him as a doctor so that he can work as a toilet cleaner in america. It'd be like trying to save a failing company by having a bigger company come in and take all their good employees and then be all "I hope you fix your poo poo, if you need any more help we can bomb you I guess"
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May 9, 2016 22:24
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I said come in! posted:I posted about this earlier and a bunch of Trump supporters came out in full force to tell me that Americans are absolutely willing to do any and all jobs for the greater good of the country. who do you think is doing the poo poo jobs in your community? Whose working in the sewers? As garbagemen? People do them because they're paid fairly.
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May 9, 2016 22:26
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runupon cracker posted:pretty sure that was already accomplished by your parents Explain
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May 9, 2016 22:28
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runupon cracker posted:pretty sure that was already accomplished by your parents lol
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May 9, 2016 22:30
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RobattoJesus posted:Do you care at all about the economies of the lands people are coming from? I would much rather these South American countries be fixed, the U.S. should step in and do that because it's largely our fault, but the reality is that this is not going to happen. These countries are not going to be fixed anytime soon if ever, so it's the right of their people to leave if they want to. People have agency, no one is obligated to the country they are born into and should be able to live wherever they want. And where have you heard of a doctor coming from another country, only to enter America illegally and work on a farm? I know American hospitals are recruiting doctors from else where in the world to come to work for them but that is a huge difference from what you are talking about.
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May 9, 2016 22:31
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Pawn 17 posted:All the anti illegal immigration stuff like building a wall and deporting immigrants might sound good ("dey took er jebs!") to some people, but in practice it's really stupid and would gently caress up many local economies. so what you are saying is, once all the illegal immigrants are deported americans will be forced get up off their rascal scooters to do manual labor to feed themselves again? what a horror
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May 9, 2016 22:35
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I said come in! posted:no one is obligated to the country they are born into. I guess this is a fundamental difference in opinion that we have. I would rather that societies were an important part of our lives and everyone should look after one and other, so if your tax money pays for my education I'd feel somewhat obliged to look after you in your old age.
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May 9, 2016 22:39
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Mange Mite posted:Yeah because alabama had such a great economy before Even if you want to ignore the effect on the economy from the loss of the immigrant labor pool and the inability of farmers, etc to fill those jobs, you still have to think about how much the economy shrank because of the loss of that population of people. The immigrants went to the grocery, the gas station, etc and bought goods and services. That created jobs (for Americans). City of Tampa posted:i am in favor of unlimited Mexican immigration but the "Americans won't do these jobs" argument is bullshit. Right, and how much do you think you would have to pay your typical American to do back breaking labor in the field all day long? Many ag industries in the US are already heavily subsidized to stay competitive and increasing the production cost dramatically means maybe those industries just close down or have to be subsidized even more.
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May 9, 2016 22:40
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SurfaceDetail posted:who do you think is doing the poo poo jobs in your community? Whose working in the sewers? As garbagemen? People do them because they're paid fairly. According to the doobie dog saga working as an alabama sewer man pays $80-90k without even a high-school diploma. Idk if thats actually true but w/ e
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May 9, 2016 22:43
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I said come in! posted:should be able to live wherever they want. Why is this? Am I obligated to let them? Can I have your parents' house? I need it my place is dirty and cleaning is hard.
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May 9, 2016 22:45
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Pawn 17 posted:Even if you want to ignore the effect on the economy from the loss of the immigrant labor pool and the inability of farmers, etc to fill those jobs, you still have to think about how much the economy shrank because of the loss of that population of people. The immigrants went to the grocery, the gas station, etc and bought goods and services. That created jobs (for Americans). They also send a lot of that money home, outside the country, so it would be better to pay an americam that same money instead of a foreigner because more of it eould be spent locally/ in the country. Also ag industries in the us are mostly subsidized because theyre politically powerful. the us literally feeds the world. Even countries with insanely high labor costs like japan manage to have a (protected, subsidized) agricultural industry by increased automation. If they really can't stay in business without exploiting people then, well, gently caress 'em. Either prices will gi up or else they will be replaced by alternative goods. Backbreeaking labor should be done by machines if they can't find people to do it.
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May 9, 2016 22:48
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Pawn 17 posted:
I bet that $15 an hour would get you all the Americans you can handle for field work. Probably doesn't even have to be that much. How much effort should the rest of society put into preserving the existence of businesses that are unable/unwilling to pay a living wage? What value do these businesses add to our society that makes it worth the rest of us having to subsidize their payroll with welfare to keep their employees from starving?
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May 9, 2016 23:00
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Holy poo poo this thread gets worst every page! I hope Trump gulags all these lovely posters!
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May 9, 2016 23:03
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SurfaceDetail posted:Why is this? Am I obligated to let them? You as a natural born citizen of the country you are born into, should have a say with your government over issues such as outsiders coming into your country. On the other hand, if someone feels that the country they are born into or live in is just not working for them then they should have the opportunity to live in another country that will accept them. So long as they are willing to follow that countries laws. There are many reasons why someone comes to another country, usually it is to escape extreme hardship. People are leaving their homelands to get away from persecution, poverty, war, famine, natural disasters, and many other reasons.
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May 9, 2016 23:04
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A reminder: I said come in, in the span of a couple of hours, went from calling Trump Hitler, to "yeah he'd try to do a lot of p dece stuff but the establishment won't let him. Vote establishment." Looks like he has had some time to recompose and is at it again. Intelligent informed voter IMHO
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May 9, 2016 23:07
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AugmentedVision posted:A reminder: I said come in, in the span of a couple of hours, went from calling Trump Hitler, to "yeah he'd try to do a lot of p dece stuff but the establishment won't let him. Vote establishment." Looks like he has had some time to recompose and is at it again. Intelligent informed voter IMHO In gbs, if youre not trollin then youre bein trolled Youre serious, right?
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May 9, 2016 23:09
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I said come in! posted:You as a natural born citizen of the country you are born into, should have a say with your government over issues such as outsiders coming into your country. On the other hand, if someone feels that the country they are born into or live in is just not working for them then they should have the opportunity to live in another country that will accept them. So long as they are willing to follow that countries laws. There are many reasons why someone comes to another country, usually it is to escape extreme hardship. People are leaving their homelands to get away from persecution, poverty, war, famine, natural disasters, and many other reasons. Only america will let people in though... My idea for president trump is that we should conquer & designate europpe, middle east maybe some small azn countries as free immigration zones. I'm going to email him my idea tomorrow
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May 9, 2016 23:09
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i think either hes mentally ill or so ignorant that his political opinions consist of vague buzzwords and feelings
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May 9, 2016 23:10
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AugmentedVision posted:A reminder: I said come in, in the span of a couple of hours, went from calling Trump Hitler, to "yeah he'd try to do a lot of p dece stuff but the establishment won't let him. Vote establishment." Looks like he has had some time to recompose and is at it again. Intelligent informed voter IMHO You're thinking of someone else, I never said this. Trump's policy is to close off America's borders and spy on certain groups of people based on religious faith or color of their skin. This is his actual policy that he has been very public about for the last year. I find these policies to be deplorable and wrong. The people in this thread that are in support of Trump literally don't know why they are voting for him.
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May 9, 2016 23:12
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How is securing the borders bad youre not makin any sense guy
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May 9, 2016 23:18
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currently we have closed off our border, aggressively process and deport even people with legitimate asylum claims, and our government can spy on anyone for any reason at all with no accountability. so I can't see how Trump would represent some huge change in these areas
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May 9, 2016 23:18
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City of Tampa posted:currently we have closed off our border, aggressively process and deport even people with legitimate asylum claims, and our government can spy on anyone for any reason at all with no accountability. I recognize that these things exist right now, but I am strongly opposed to them so explain to me why I would vote for Trump who wants these policies to continue and be expanded upon?
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May 9, 2016 23:21
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I said come in! posted:I recognize that these things exist right now, but I am strongly opposed to them so explain to me why I would vote for Trump who wants these policies to continue and be expanded upon? because Trump is only going to screw mexicans. Hillary is getting lubed up to screw everyone.
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May 9, 2016 23:25
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Mange Mite posted:How is securing the borders bad youre not makin any sense guy Why should we secure the borders further? Secure them from what even? What possible threats do we face by not securing the borders?
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May 9, 2016 23:26
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SurfaceDetail posted:so ignorant that his political opinions consist of vague buzzwords and feelings
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May 9, 2016 23:26
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Rutibex posted:because Trump is only going to screw mexicans. Hillary is getting lubed up to screw everyone. I'm voting for Bernie Sanders.
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May 9, 2016 23:26
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I said come in! posted:I recognize that these things exist right now, but I am strongly opposed to them so explain to me why I would vote for Trump who wants these policies to continue and be expanded upon? You don't have to. It's actually ok for people to have different opinions on things. It's why we have democracy.
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May 9, 2016 23:27
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I said come in! posted:Why should we secure the borders further? Secure them from what even? What possible threats do we face by not securing the borders? Youre assuming a whole lot here guy. Just hold your horses and start from the top. Cool your jets
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May 9, 2016 23:27
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im voting for donald trump
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May 9, 2016 23:28
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I said come in! posted:I'm voting for Bernie Sanders.  sure that's better, but lol if you think you'll be allowed to
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May 9, 2016 23:28
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May 9, 2016 23:29
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SurfaceDetail posted:i think either hes mentally ill or so ignorant that his political opinions consist of vague buzzwords and feelings Have you never watched a Donald Trump rally? How have they completely flown over your head? His rallies are on every single major news channel each time they occur.
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May 9, 2016 23:29
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