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They established pretty well that these new khals didn't get a ton of respect, and also that none of them bothered trying to avenge their dead bloodriders, and also that they're pretty loving pragmatic and lazy and not hidebound at all. Meanwhile a revered/prophecied widow of the baddest warlord in history burns them all to death and walks out unscathed. No stretch required my droogs.
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May 16, 2016 18:16
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tin can made man posted:I'm not sure what you mean, though I'm pretty sure this never happened in ASOIAF yeah where have we seen this before? oh, the very first book? hmm.
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May 16, 2016 18:18
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:yea but they are also scared of crossing the sea so Knowing D&D, Dany will part the sea and they will walk across to Westeros.
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May 16, 2016 18:18
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this_is_hard posted:yeah where have we seen this before? oh, the very first book? hmm. where
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May 16, 2016 18:19
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tin can made man posted:I'm not sure what you mean, though I'm pretty sure this never happened in ASOIAF Of course I get that it's racist. It's also exactly what GRRM did with Dany in the first book/season. It's not "literal trickery"; she emerged from a huge fire without getting the least bit singed. There was no more or less magic to it, other than that she didn't bring out three baby dragons with her this time. Also, remember, GRRM has fed the major plot beats to the showrunners. I guarantee you this was a major plot point that he came up with. So stop whining, blame the GRRM. Always blame the GRRM.
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May 16, 2016 18:20
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Elias_Maluco posted:They are dothraki, a fearless and violent and magic-hating people. Perhaps if she killed then all in fight they would be impressed. But she killed then with what appears to be magic and treachery. The sane thing for then would be to just jump at her and kill her without hesitation, and then fight among themselves for the position of the killed khals There is no 'sane' thing to do in the presence of what is essentially a miracle.
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May 16, 2016 18:20
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Pedro De Heredia posted:There is no 'sane' thing to do in the presence of what is essentially a miracle. Exactly! You've got people in TYOOL 2016 freaking out and cheering when Chris Angel performs a lovely illusion, even when they already knew he was going to do a magic trick. It's not exactly a stretch to imagine a pre-industrial tribe bowing down before what looks like an actual miracle to them.
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May 16, 2016 18:24
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this_is_hard posted:
It's actually from Tintin. 
Narmi fucked around with this message at 18:28 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 18:25
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Pedro De Heredia posted:There is no 'sane' thing to do in the presence of what is essentially a miracle. This. Just look at the Bible. Daenarys just did the Walk on Water trick but with Fire. Also remember that the Red Priests have been wandering around preaching about her, that she's the Chosen One; anyone who were skeptical would've been convinced then.
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May 16, 2016 18:26
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Ginette Reno posted:Not sure why Mel suddenly believes Jon is Azhor Ahai in the show. What evidence does she have for that beyond him coming back to life? Why should she think some random Night's Watch bastard is the one? In the books I can see her finally putting two and two together because every time she looks in the flames and asks to see the prince that was promised she sees Jon instead of Stannis but she's too dumb to realize why that is but obviously if Stannis dies and she rezzes Jon she might finally get the picture. But iirc in the show she doesn't have any indications Jon is the one to follow apart from him coming back but she's seen that Thoros is capable of rezzing guys so it's not like she should consider her revival of Jon as something particularly special. In the previous season Jon rejects her advances which not even Stannis did. I also assumed her questioning what he saw while he was dead and him replying nothing means that he was never truly dead. In her opinion he never crossed over because R'hllor planned on his resurrection because Jon is important.
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May 16, 2016 18:28
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Gas.
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May 16, 2016 18:32
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Raenir Salazar posted:This. Just look at the Bible. Daenarys just did the Walk on Water trick but with Fire. I must have missed the part in the Bible where all the Jews and Romans proclaimed Jesus their king. The way I remember that story is that he ends up on a cross because the Jewish society was afraid of his influence.
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May 16, 2016 18:34
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GaussianCopula posted:I must have missed the part in the Bible where all the Jews and Romans proclaimed Jesus their king. The way I remember that story is that he ends up on a cross because the Jewish society was afraid of his influence. Jesus didn't tend to perform miracles in front of Jewish or Roman authorities. He also didn't have a reputation as a violent conqueror, as Dany does, nor did he nuke the Sanhedrin and then walk out of the Temple unscathed.
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May 16, 2016 18:37
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:They established pretty well that these new khals didn't get a ton of respect, and also that none of them bothered trying to avenge their dead bloodriders, and also that they're pretty loving pragmatic and lazy and not hidebound at all. Meanwhile a
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May 16, 2016 18:37
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tin can made man posted:Like, we still have no idea why Davos gives so much of a poo poo about Jon Snow, Guy He Met Twice for About 10 Cumulative Minutes, that he would beseech Melisandre, Woman He Has Hated and Mistrusted for Years, to do magic he doesn't even know exists yet. I love the tonal shift of Davos going from last season accosting Mel as she arrived at Winterfell, asking her about Shireen and then looking shocked at Mel's sullen gaze as realization seems to hit him, to being all "hey woman whose sorcery I've hated and opposed for the past 4 seasons, could you please rez this dude I barely know? Cool, thanks, you're alright!" and then back to "Shireen, Stannis, what happen?  "
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May 16, 2016 18:37
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GaussianCopula posted:I must have missed the part in the Bible where all the Jews and Romans proclaimed Jesus their king. The way I remember that story is that he ends up on a cross because the Jewish society was afraid of his influence. I think you'll find that some Jews were sufficiently impressed by Jesus' resurrection that they started a 2000 year old, quite powerful religion. If he'd stayed to hang out, I'm sure he would have led it. It's worth mentioning that when someone walks out a fire unscathed (or comes back from the dead, or any other insane miracle), it's kind of a gamechanger. The idea that you are just going to walk up to this person and kill them with your bare hands in that moment is completely preposterous, since you have no idea who this person is or what they're capable of doing anymore. For all you know, you could spontaneously combust if you get near her. We watch the show and we know that Daenerys doesn't have any cool magical powers beyond 'immunity to fire' and these guys could just beat her to death with their bare hands, but they don't know that. They certainly don't know that anymore. We also know that the show likes having these big and somewhat ridiculous Daenerys moments, but that there is dissent, there are people who aren't impressed, there is opposition, etc. The 'reality' (which the show tends to acknowledge) is that not everyone is going to follow Daenerys, and yeah, there's probably a bunch of people there who are not cool with what just happened. But there's a difference between dissent/situation being not black and white, and the notion that someone would have just gone up and killed her right then and there. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 18:47 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 18:38
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Davos met Jon in S4 and took an immediate notice to him, including that Stannis saw something in him. They then spent most of S5 together - why do people keep saying "this guy I barely know"?
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May 16, 2016 18:42
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24-7 Urkel Cosplay posted:Davos met Jon in S4 and took an immediate notice to him, including that Stannis saw something in him. They then spent most of S5 together - why do people keep saying "this guy I barely know"? He knows him but I'm not sure there's enough friendship there that he'd be asking Mel who he hates to resurrect Jon. It'd be like Tyrion asking a Red Priest to rez Grey Worm. Yeah he knows him and they have an amiable enough relationship but come on now.
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May 16, 2016 18:44
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24-7 Urkel Cosplay posted:Davos met Jon in S4 and took an immediate notice to him, including that Stannis saw something in him. They then spent most of S5 together - why do people keep saying "this guy I barely know"? Maybe because they had very few scenes together and after he was resurrected Davos seems to have lost all interest in Jon Snow again. The fact that he and Mel did not eat with the "in" group in this episode was kinda funny, you would think that the guy who protected Jon Snow's body and got him resurrected and the priestess who did the resurrecting would have earned their place at the table.
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May 16, 2016 18:45
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GaussianCopula posted:Maybe because they had very few scenes together and after he was resurrected Davos seems to have lost all interest in Jon Snow again. The fact that he and Mel did not eat with the "in" group in this episode was kinda funny, you would think that the guy who protected Jon Snow's body and got him resurrected and the priestess who did the resurrecting would have earned their place at the table. They saw Brienne at the table and realized they had to go sit with the nerds obviously.
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May 16, 2016 18:47
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GaussianCopula posted:Maybe because they had very few scenes together and after he was resurrected Davos seems to have lost all interest in Jon Snow again. The fact that he and Mel did not eat with the "in" group in this episode was kinda funny, you would think that the guy who protected Jon Snow's body and got him resurrected and the priestess who did the resurrecting would have earned their place at the table. Davos was busy taking a poo poo. Jon Snow has had a grand total of three scenes since he was resurrected. One in which he was overseeing an execution, one in which he was hanging out alone with his sister, and one with his buddies. How is that 'Davos seems to have lost all interest in Jon Snow'? He's still there! Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 18:51 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 18:48
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In the widely popular HBO show, Game of Thrones, the character Sansa comes from the northern part of Westeros called Winterfell. As with all the cultures in Game of Thrones, each has heir own dress, food, typical clothing, and even hairstyles. But when Sansa begins to live in the southern King’s Landing, she changes her hair to how one typically of the south. Except Sansa is not of the South. She has no ties to the south, and is little more than a long-staying guest there. Therefore, she has no right to wear the styles of actual southern women. This is how in many little ways, cultural appropriation has been normalized in our every day lives.
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May 16, 2016 18:49
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I, too, enjoy Tormund taking a liking to Brienne. It's moments like these that I wish we could get inside the character's heads like in the books, because she's definitely misinterpreting all his stares.
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May 16, 2016 18:51
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Ginette Reno posted:He knows him but I'm not sure there's enough kinship there that he'd be asking Mel who he hates to resurrect Jon. I think one thing people are missing is that Jon's friends among the Watch have also made an impression upon Davos. The dedication of men like Sam and Edd to him is pretty striking. Plus there's the fact that he alone among the leadership of the Watch seems able to see what must be done w/r/t the Wildlings, which clearly makes him a singular figure in that context. Davos isn't stupid; he knows that without Jon, the situation would have quickly gone to poo poo as the Wildlings stormed the castle and slaughtered Ser Alliser and his men. And then if Davos left, where would he go? He has a sense of how dire the situation is; he knows it's not going to be long before Westeros is overrun by something, whether it be White Walkers or Wildlings or Boltons or whatever. He knows he can't run forever. So he decides to make a stand and tries for a Hail Mary, which turns out to succeed.
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May 16, 2016 18:51
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:In the widely popular HBO show, Game of Thrones, the character Sansa comes from the northern part of Westeros called Winterfell. As with all the cultures in Game of Thrones, each has heir own dress, food, typical clothing, and even hairstyles. But when Sansa begins to live in the southern King’s Landing, she changes her hair to how one typically of the south. Except Sansa is not of the South. She has no ties to the south, and is little more than a long-staying guest there. Therefore, she has no right to wear the styles of actual southern women. This is how in many little ways, cultural appropriation has been normalized in our every day lives. In a similar fashion, a dude from Boston wearing a Cubs hat is the same as a white American girl dressing up as a Zulu warrior.
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May 16, 2016 18:51
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Kind of. Dany's not above using cynical methods to do what she feels need to get done. As tin can made man pointed out earlier, it's not like "white person pretends to be a god in front of primitive nomads" is a paradigm that we ourselves haven't seen in human history.
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May 16, 2016 18:52
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I really don't give a gently caress about Dany winning the duex ex machina lotto again, I stopped caring about the main 3 characters 2 seasons ago. But if the no cleganebowl rumor is true, I am going to... loving call visa and reverse charge of HBONow subscription.
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May 16, 2016 18:56
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e: very much the wrong thread
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May 16, 2016 18:56
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Majorian posted:I think one thing people are missing is that Jon's friends among the Watch have also made an impression upon Davos. I think what most people are actually missing is that what we see on the show are not the only interactions these people have with each other in their reality. This is a basic element of fiction but it apparently is confusing to people. There is a poster on this thread saying Jon and Davos 'met twice for 10 cumulative minutes'. There is another poster on this thread saying that Sansa didn't ask Jon about his resurrection. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 19:02 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 18:58
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Majorian posted:Kind of. Dany's not above using cynical methods to do what she feels need to get done. These methods now include starting an uncontrollable bonfire in the middle of a thatched city because she knows she has a 100% resistance to fire at all times and the inhabitants are superstitious simpletons who will of course worship her for it. Pants on head stupid - especially since Martin himself has explicitly stated that her immunity to fire with the dragon eggs hatching was a miraculous event. I don't have the actual quote but he essentially says that it was a sort of aligning of the stars moment that required Mirri Maz Dur's blood magic, the dragon eggs, the comet, and the sacrifice of Drogo's body to make happen. Show version = Dany's body can't be burned ever. It's the most pedestrian, mouth-breathing nonsense.
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May 16, 2016 19:03
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Unzip and Attack posted:These methods now include starting an uncontrollable bonfire in the middle of a thatched city because she knows she has a 100% resistance to fire at all times and the inhabitants are superstitious simpletons who will of course worship her for it. It's almost as if the show would no longer be able to rely on the masterful prose of GRRM but has instead gotten a beefy effects/CGI budget to make up for it.
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May 16, 2016 19:08
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Unzip and Attack posted:These methods now include starting an uncontrollable bonfire in the middle of a thatched city because she knows she has a 100% resistance to fire at all times and the inhabitants are superstitious simpletons who will of course worship her for it. Yes, so much dumber than a group of them worshiping her after she walked out of her husband's funeral pyre a few seasons back. The showrunners are to blame, not GRRM, truly. quote:Pants on head stupid - especially since Martin himself has explicitly stated that her immunity to fire with the dragon eggs hatching was a miraculous event. I don't have the actual quote but he essentially says that it was a sort of aligning of the stars moment that required Mirri Maz Dur's blood magic, the dragon eggs, the comet, and the sacrifice of Drogo's body to make happen. Show version = Dany's body can't be burned ever. It's the most pedestrian, mouth-breathing nonsense. Why does this matter to you?  e: More to the point, are you under the impression that GRRM is somehow above drastically changing a character's storyline from what he had originally planned? Majorian fucked around with this message at 19:12 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 19:10
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GaussianCopula posted:the masterful prose of GRRM
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May 16, 2016 19:11
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Countdown to Tormund-Brienne bang session: 
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May 16, 2016 19:13
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Majorian posted:Yes, so much dumber than a group of them worshiping her after she walked out of her husband's funeral pyre a few seasons back. The showrunners are to blame, not GRRM, truly. The difference is that the people worshiping her at the end of season one are her hardcore fans, the only people who did not desert her after all the other members of the khalassar decided to leave and they did not watch her kill some authority figures in a blazing fire but the birth of her dragons in combination with her not dieing.
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May 16, 2016 19:17
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That baby's gonna be the human equivalent of a direwolf. And my god you people are just so unhappy
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May 16, 2016 19:18
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quote:If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell. I thought they were going to substitute Osha for the spearwives as they're both wildlings but I guess that's a little too hosed up even for Ramsay? Maybe next time we see Rickon he'll have a new coat. tin can made man posted:hahahaha I completely forgot that the show is, itself, internally dissonant because we have two back-to-back examples of "Murder the ruler, become that ruler without problem" but then Euron literally murders his brother and there has to be a Choosing. Like, somehow the rape vikings have a more sophisticated set of civics than the North and Dorne They did, we just didn't get to see the snakemoot or the skinmoot. GaussianCopula posted:It's not Jon who is gonna conduct the diplomacy but Sansa, because we need to continue the trend of female empowerment this season has established. Jon will accompany her and continue to be a little emo douchebag. This season? That's been from the start including the source novels. The sand snakes taking power is a bad thing, they're poorly written but they're still meant to be villains.
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May 16, 2016 19:19
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GaussianCopula posted:The difference is that the people worshiping her at the end of season one are her hardcore fans, the only people who did not desert her after all the other members of the khalassar decided to leave and they did not watch her kill some authority figures in a blazing fire but the birth of her dragons in combination with her not dieing. So...you're under the impression that existential terror at what this fire-goddess could do to them doesn't play a role in their kneeling? 
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May 16, 2016 19:20
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You people complaining about Dany are loving retarded. You can see in the trailers where there is a massive exodus of people from Vaes Dothrak when Drogon flies over. They're going to say 'this is hosed.' and leave but seeing the massive dragon and her riding it is going to bring them back into the fold. A Khal who cannot ride is no Khal. And Dany is going to have the stallion that mounts the world.
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May 16, 2016 19:21
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TK-42-1 posted:You people complaining about Dany are loving retarded. You can see in the trailers where there is a massive exodus of people from Vaes Dothrak when Drogon flies over. They're going to say 'this is hosed.' and leave but seeing the massive dragon and her riding it is going to bring them back into the fold. Well, I havent saw the trailer (got a link, by the way?). If that happens than Im ok with it
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May 16, 2016 19:22
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