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syntaxfunction posted:Yes. I should mention that my post was a bit hyperbolic. Performance wise everything matches up with what I expected. Pricewise I can grab an 8GB model here for AU$380 or so. That is very good. I like the RX480. What I don't like, and the only thing stopping me right now, is this power draw via bus issue. Yes, it's most likely fine. But I don't want "most likely" or "should be". If I'm spending any amount of money on a card I want to know I can put it in and not have to worry. I understand that, and it's perfectly reasonable to be cautious. Nonetheless, it's incredibly disingenuous to read a review that reports the excessive power draw and then seemingly ignore the fact that the same review recommends the card. That's my problem with this whole controversy - people in forums and on Reddit are freaking out over test results, but the testers are not.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:43
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wicka posted:I understand that, and it's perfectly reasonable to be cautious. Nonetheless, it's incredibly disingenuous to read a review that reports the excessive power draw and then seemingly ignore the fact that the same review recommends the card. That's my problem with this whole controversy - people in forums and on Reddit are freaking out over test results, but the testers are not. Agreed. It's a personal issue for me, and I don't mean to imply that's it's terribad and the 480 will catch fire. However, even though the reviews are positive and indicate that there shouldn't be much concern, I have an issue that a brand new card, from the factory, seems to operate outside of specification. Disregarding everything else I don't understand why this is a thing. Also I am aware that it may very well be a fluke or some bug or something. I'm not buying the card today or week one, so it's not an issue to see how this plays out. I'm also keen to see what NV does with the 1060 which is supposedly getting reviews next week? It's all up in the air. I don't know what the gently caress is happening any more. syntaxfunction fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 03:54
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syntaxfunction posted:Agreed. It's a personal issue for me, and I don't mean to imply that's it's terribad and the 480 will catch fire. However, even though the reviews are positive and indicate that there shouldn't be much concern, I have an issue that a brand new card, from the factory, seems to operate outside of specification. Disregarding everything else I don't understand why this is a thing. Here's a thing. Your PSU is technically operating OUTSIDE OF SPEC RIGHT NOW OMG! You 12v rail might not actually be at exactly 12v.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:58
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Stanley Pain posted:Here's a thing. Your PSU is technically operating OUTSIDE OF SPEC RIGHT NOW OMG! You 12v rail might not actually be at exactly 12v. This is a bad argument. The spec allows for 5% deviation from 12v. Do you even read JonnyGURU? It's far more likely his PSU is failing the hold-up time spec than anything else. Even very good PSUs like the EVGA G2s and P2s tend to miss that one. Edit: Page 22 http://joule.bu.edu/~hazen/LinuxCluster/atx_201.pdf Peanut3141 fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 04:01
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Would the RX 480's power issue crossover into partner boards too? Or is it an inherent flaw in the reference design only?
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Jun 30, 2016 04:03
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wicka posted:I have not read a single review yet that didn't recommend the card. So if you drew the conclusion above then, no, you did not read any reviews. Nothing I said was wrong, and I have recommended it several times in this thread alrwady
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Jun 30, 2016 04:04
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teagone posted:Would the RX 480's power issue crossover into partner boards too? Or is it an inherent flaw in the reference design only? If the partner boards use an 8-pin instead of a 6-pin connector, they'd be set. 8-pin is spec'd to 150W, 6-pin to 75W. The issue is when the board is pulling 160-170W, you can't get there with 75W from the 6-pin and 75W from the PCI-E slot, which are the spec limits. You have to violate something and instead of violating the 6-pin like sane people, they're taking it from the PCI-E slots. An 8-pin would let an RX 480 pull 225W (150W 8-pin + 75W board), which should be plenty. If the Sapphire colander Gonkish linked a page back does have an 8-pin, it should have both the cooling and power delivery solved. It's just a matter of how much wattage can be pumped through before the chip gets too hot or loses stability. That'll almost certainly happen before 225W. Peanut3141 fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 04:06
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Peanut3141 posted:8-pin is spec'd to 150W, 6-pin to 75W. How do extra 2 pins double the amount of power that can go through?
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Jun 30, 2016 04:10
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Are there dual 6 pin to 8 pin adapters out there (and is that actually feasible). If I'm waiting for AIB 480 with an 8 pin pcie plug I'm gonna be up for a new power supply as well.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:18
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SinineSiil posted:How do extra 2 pins double the amount of power that can go through? They kinda don't. Let me preface this by saying I'm not an electrical engineer, though I've sometimes played one in my career. Check out John_VanKirk's post from Feb 4, 2010 in this thread: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274631-28-power-spec-power-plug In short, a 6-pin connector seems to be able to carry at least 192W, probably far more than that. It is for that reason that I said a sane designer would've overpulled from the 6-pin connector instead of the PCI-E slot. Standard caveats being that the wires should be at least 18 gauge, well made and not supplied by a pos PSU.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:20
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Peanut3141 posted:This is a bad argument. The spec allows for 5% deviation from 12v. Do you even read JonnyGURU? I think the PCI-E x16 spec allows for a 9% deviation. My comment was more along the lines that pretty much all of the electrical things inside your computer can and do run within a range above or below their max rated numbers.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:22
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SinineSiil posted:How do extra 2 pins double the amount of power that can go through? The two extra pins are actually grounds - technically one of them should be a sensing pin but I don't think it often gets included. The other side of this is that you can plug a 6-pin into a GPU's 8-pin connector and it *may* work, and if it does, it should technically pull no more than 75W as such since it wouldn't detect the grounding pins. But I'm not sure how well GPU manufacturers actually stick to that.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:25
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Stanley Pain posted:I think the PCI-E x16 spec allows for a 9% deviation. My comment was more along the lines that pretty much all of the electrical things inside your computer can and do run within a range above or below their max rated numbers. What does the PCI-E spec have to do with the ATX spec for the voltage a PSU should supply? I linked you the relevant document. Except for the oddball 3.3v rail, the tolerances are all 5%. None of this changes the fact that you said his PSU was operating out of spec right now because his 12v rail wasn't exactly 12.0 volts.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:27
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teagone posted:Would the RX 480's power issue crossover into partner boards too? Or is it an inherent flaw in the reference design only? Custom boards/power delivery is a real common differentiation on aftermarket boards, I'd bet the dreamboat stealth colander has an 8 pin variant. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 04:28
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So I have settled on getting myself a 1070 (whenever it is not sold out) but I am having trouble with the large number of brands. Are there particular 1070's I should avoid and some that I should try and get my hands on? As far as I can tell it seems like different costs for roughly the same thing.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:30
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xthetenth posted:Custom boards/power delivery is a real common differentiation on aftermarket boards, I'd be the dreamboat stealth colander has an 8 pin variant. First person in this thread to buy a Sapphire RX 480 please change your username to "Dreamboat Stealth Colander" with avatar to match. Thanks.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:30
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SinineSiil posted:How do extra 2 pins double the amount of power that can go through? The idea isn't exactly that the extra pins carry another 75w, it is that an 8 pin connector is rated for 75 more watts. Which means that you know if a power supply offers an 8 pin connection that it will supply 150w over that connector. They could've achieved almost the same thing with a "black 6 pin connector" and a "red 6 pin connector", but they went with 8/6pin because of various advantages (ease of adaptability, easy to understand, minor electrical advantage to the additional grounds). E: I got beaten by Sour Kraut because I typed this between lives in overwatch 
BurritoJustice fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 04:34
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Huh, so I guess the consensus would be I'm worrying to much about the bus draw then? Good, I suppose. I wonder if the whole power draw/cooling thing will mark the start of a new range of crazy factory modified/OC'd cards, especially given the supposed silicon lottery with Polaris. Maybe people will start reviewing individual cards in roundups again instead of "get the card with best cooling". Mainly because, as I said, I don't overclock, so I want the best performance out of the box. But the XFX 480 Reference looks cool, so if it's all the same in a few weeks I might as well just grab that.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:44
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Peanut3141 posted:They kinda don't. Let me preface this by saying I'm not an electrical engineer, though I've sometimes played one in my career. SourKraut posted:it doesn't; both the 6- and 8- pin PCIe connectors (should) have the same number of 12v pins (3). The 8-pin has two additional grounding pins. The PCI-SIG specification required the 8-pin configuration in order to differentiate which power supplies can support 150W for a single cable off of the 12v rail(s) feeding the connector. In older PSUs, the Cables might not physically be capable of feeding the current required without potentially causing damage, or the PSU might not have been able to safely feed it. So the easiest way to (ideally) guarantee someone doesn't use an underpowered PSU is by requiring an 8-pin connector for GPUs needing more than 75W from the connector. Of course this requires the PSU meet standard specifications, which knock-offs, etc. probably won't. BurritoJustice posted:The idea isn't exactly that the extra pins carry another 75w, it is that an 8 pin connector is rated for 75 more watts. Which means that you know if a power supply offers an 8 pin connection that it will supply 150w over that connector. They could've achieved almost the same thing with a "black 6 pin connector" and a "red 6 pin connector", but they went with 8/6pin because of various advantages (ease of adaptability, easy to understand, minor electrical advantage to the additional grounds).
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Jun 30, 2016 04:45
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The RX480 being a AMD brand GTX970 is not the problem (although it'd been better if it was an AMD brand 980, but whatever), but rather the obscene power draw on a new node to accomplish this. It's either down to µarch (AMD cards are ridiculously compute heavy) which means, based on R&D, AMD has painted themselves into a corner; why I'd be skeptical is that Intel gets great perf/watt and my understanding is that Iris is easily just as compute heavy a design. Another possibility is it's down to fabs or process, in which case porting the design over to TSMC or GloFo fixing their poo poo solves this problem. Basically, based on AMDs past behavior, based on GloFlos particular brand of fuckups, Polaris is going to get a respin and land in the low end of the 500 series with maybe 30-40W less draw and thus instantly be a not poo poo design, because that's basically how much more wattage it's eating up than it has any right to. This is a 110W card overclocking to 140-150W, not a 160W card overclocking to 200W.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:45
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syntaxfunction posted:Huh, so I guess the consensus would be I'm worrying to much about the bus draw then? Good, I suppose. I wonder if the whole power draw/cooling thing will mark the start of a new range of crazy factory modified/OC'd cards, especially given the supposed silicon lottery with Polaris. Maybe people will start reviewing individual cards in roundups again instead of "get the card with best cooling". Mainly because, as I said, I don't overclock, so I want the best performance out of the box. But the XFX 480 Reference looks cool, so if it's all the same in a few weeks I might as well just grab that. I'd be somewhat worried about a consistent out-of-spec draw from the PCI-E slot. Just wait until a non-reference design comes out with custom cooling and 8-pin power. I would not buy reference unless the excessive power draw from the motherboard is shown to be an anomaly confined to a few samples or is otherwise resolved.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:56
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NewFatMike posted:I'm definitely interested in DX 12 performance in the future. Hopefully it's not just because of rebrands that AMD cards have aged rather gracefully. DX12 and Vulkan, if that gets adoption by PC games, will maybe be an ace for them, it's certainly a place they make up a lot of ground vs nvidia right now. But that very well could fade, it's quite possible that nvidia just hasn't put the same about of work into DX12 yet because there are hardly any games that use it. I wouldn't buy a 480 just on that expectation if the 1060 ends up being better in current games (relative to $). xthetenth posted:The reason everyone's super mad is because it's using a ton of watts to do it which means that all the people who put too much money into their computer (most of the thread) are really worried that they won't be able to fit much performance into 300W for a top end card. I'm kinda disappointed by the power use because I like a quiet computer, even when playing a game if I can get it, and was hoping the process shrink would fix the biggest flaw in the AMD lineup for the last few years. For Vega, they better hope to have either their process problems un-hosed or some miraculous performance magic pulled from HBM, because 300+ watt cards are a tough sell.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:21
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Has anyone run across any reviews for the various 10x0 cards with non-reference blowers? That type of fan is really the only option with my SFF case, but I'm not paying stupid FE prices for a blower. I've only run across a couple, the MSI Aero, Asus Turbo and Galax Virtual Edition seem to use blowers, but no reviews anywhere. Wish I'd seen the MSI 1070 Aero was in stock at B&H earlier, because it's at least $150 cheaper to ship a 1070 from the US than it is to buy here in Oz. Edit: Nice, MSI 1070 Aero came back in stock at B&H just as I was checking the shipping to Oz again, ordered. JBark fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 05:37
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JBark posted:Has anyone run across any reviews for the various 10x0 cards with non-reference blowers? That type of fan is really the only option with my SFF case, but I'm not paying stupid FE prices for a blower. I've only run across a couple, the MSI Aero, Asus Turbo and Galax Virtual Edition seem to use blowers, but no reviews anywhere. I'm hoping someone can still comment on this though, since I'm looking to put a 1070 into a Mac Pro (yes, it runs Boot Camp) and am currently thinking the FE or another blower-type might be preferable.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:55
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Peanut3141 posted:I'd be somewhat worried about a consistent out-of-spec draw from the PCI-E slot. Just wait until a non-reference design comes out with custom cooling and 8-pin power. I would not buy reference unless the excessive power draw from the motherboard is shown to be an anomaly confined to a few samples or is otherwise resolved. The way I see it, its the usual AMD practice of choosing to play retarded games when there is NO NEED TO. Hey, we got a 160W GPU and we should put in a 2x6 pin or 1x8 pin connector and no one will bat an eyelid...but no, we got to stick a lone 6-pin in there to overhype our pre-launch TDP so we can needlessly shoot ourselves in the foot several times in the form of overdrawing PCIE bus power FUD when all is said and done. It's simply hilarious they screwed up a $240 GPU so badly that it makes people wanna jump on a $400 NV GPU. Palladium fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 05:59
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SourKraut posted:I'm hoping someone can still comment on this though, since I'm looking to put a 1070 into a Mac Pro (yes, it runs Boot Camp) and am currently thinking the FE or another blower-type might be preferable. If my ordered actually goes through, I'll make sure to post when I get it. Probably be a week or two before it shows up here, though. I've only got my old eVGA 670 to compare it against, I'm hoping this new one doesn't have the annoying fan noise the 670 does.
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Jun 30, 2016 06:21
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:Carbon steel colander Jet fuel can't melt AMDs.
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Jun 30, 2016 06:27
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After almost three weeks of having nowinstock up, I finally lucked into a 1080, the ASUS STRYX OC edition. I am having a bit of buyer's remorse though -- sales tax in my zip code is ~10% so the final bill came to $750 for a card I was hoping I'd be able to get close to $600 this far after launch. Is it insane to cancel this order though? Are these cards going to still be impossible to get for the near future and I could easily get rid of it on craigslist for $750? Also, any idea how much more power this thing is going to draw at idle and at load? EDIT: My CPU is a i5-2500, and the main game that I'm upgrading for is Witcher 3 @ 1440p. Am I going to be CPU limited and not going to see any benefit over a 1070? Chuu fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 06:38
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fletcher posted:Man, I never thought the world of GPUs would be so interesting until I started following this thread. Does any other component generate this level of drama? Same here. I didn't pay any attention to any of it for years, but now all this hardware stuff's got me hooked. I just want to see what the future brings, with 4K, virtual reality, etc. PC gaming is alive. It's just a shame we've progressed so far into diminishing returns territory, where it's getting increasingly hard to miniaturize components further.
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Jun 30, 2016 07:02
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Evil Fluffy posted:Jet fuel can't melt AMDs. But can AMDs melt AMDs?
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Jun 30, 2016 07:02
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Phlegmish posted:Same here. I didn't pay any attention to any of it for years, but now all this hardware stuff's got me hooked.
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Jun 30, 2016 08:38
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Chuu posted:After almost three weeks of having nowinstock up, I finally lucked into a 1080, the ASUS STRYX OC edition. I am having a bit of buyer's remorse though -- sales tax in my zip code is ~10% so the final bill came to $750 for a card I was hoping I'd be able to get close to $600 this far after launch. Depends on your personal finances, but that's a LOT of money for what will rather sooner than later be a midrange card. I'd cancel and set up a sniper perch on one of those mythical 399$ 1070 Gigabyte Windforces. The hunt is half of the fun. No need to worry about TW3 and a 2500, just make sure CPU cooling is set up properly, it's gonna get hit hard on all cylinders. It's how I found out after a year that I had half a broken cooler pin. sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 09:52
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Taima posted:You know what looks really good? Rise of the Tomb raider on a 1070. The Witcher 3 would give your card a bigger workout, if my experience /w the Strix 1080 is anything to go by. Bonus points if you can keep a constant 60FPS on Ultra with full HairWorks. my 1080 couldn't, at least not on 1440p 
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Jun 30, 2016 11:06
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:The drama was always there to some extent but its really ramped up in the last few years. I don't mind a lil' bit of bullshitting but it seems to have gotten totally out of hand lately. So much bullshit to wade through now its hard to find anything interesting or useful. I think that has something to do the GPU market departing from the golden age of 2007-2012 where insane value for dollar can be had with <$200 GPUs. We are never going to see stuff like Nvidia demolishing itself out of its own $600 market like the the $250 8800GT did, or $80 AR GTS 250s and $100 GTX460s, or AMD's $200 4850 puts a $650 NV card to shame.
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Jun 30, 2016 11:35
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kuroiXiru posted:The Witcher 3 would give your card a bigger workout, if my experience /w the Strix 1080 is anything to go by. What the gently caress though. There go my plans of 3440x1440 Ultra Witcher 3 with hairworks. This is so dumb. I've been on a 780 for 3 years and I just want to have a great time with my favourite RPG.
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Jun 30, 2016 11:35
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To be fair I could only OC the card to ~2000mhz. Also I'm on a 3770k, and Witcher 3 is a pretty CPU-intensive game.
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Jun 30, 2016 12:12
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Was talking to a friend that works with AIB partners a lot. Here's what he said on the current Pascal shortages (translated from moonspeak):quote:NV shafted AIBs a bit and now there's way too many maxwells in circulation. Consequently, they're slowing the sale of new cards on purpose until they can get rid of old supplies. hosed up if true lmbo
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Jun 30, 2016 12:13
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[H]ard OC comments section migrated to SA for this most recent release I see. Hyperbole piled high
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Jun 30, 2016 12:19
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I'm on a 7950, the price of the 480 is looking pretty good. Would it be worth the upgrade?
Cream fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 12:20
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ijyt posted:What the gently caress though. There go my plans of 3440x1440 Ultra Witcher 3 with hairworks. Gsync baby.
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