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Jul 10, 2016 18:33
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| # ? May 23, 2024 08:41 |
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Please make that picture the OP.
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Jul 10, 2016 18:42
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done
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Jul 10, 2016 21:31
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I think it's kinda weird all the higher ups say "Oh yeah we totally don't mind, or hell we're even encouraging new people to just go ahead and play ZTD first and then go back and play the other titles!" when ZTD immediately spoils "Junpei Tenmyouji" and Sigma lengthily explains the entire plot of VLR at the start of the game. I'm not sure who they're trying to fool.
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Jul 10, 2016 23:52
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Speaking of, I'm one of those people who did play ZTD first; is it really worth going back and playing the other two, or would it be pointless?
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Jul 11, 2016 00:01
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They tell you some background information but deliberately avoid giving you the big twists of either game.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:03
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Jia posted:Speaking of, I'm one of those people who did play ZTD first; is it really worth going back and playing the other two, or would it be pointless? Play 'em, they're both really good, especially VLR which is still the best Zero Escape imo
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Jul 11, 2016 00:04
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I would be interested in seeing how someone handles playing the trilogy in the order of PC releases (ZTD - 999 - VLR) and if they can anticipate the twists in the subsequent games.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:09
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psychoJ posted:Play 'em, they're both really good, especially VLR which is still the best Zero Escape imo I honestly think it would be if there weren't so many crap characters. Quark who does nothing, Alice who is poo poo, Ruined Clover. RUINED CLOVER! 
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Jul 11, 2016 00:29
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Dude...you wanna watch some Zero Escape speedruns!??! http://www.speedrun.com/ze
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Jul 11, 2016 00:48
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voltcatfish posted:Dude...you wanna watch some Zero Escape speedruns!??!
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Jul 11, 2016 01:14
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Arrrthritis posted:I would be interested in seeing how someone handles playing the trilogy in the order of PC releases (ZTD - 999 - VLR) and if they can anticipate the twists in the subsequent games. I'll try this.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:16
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voltcatfish posted:I honestly think it would be if there weren't so many crap characters. Quark who does nothing, Alice who is poo poo, Ruined Clover. RUINED CLOVER! but it also gave us Sigma, Phi and Old Junpei so it evens out
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Jul 11, 2016 01:21
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voltcatfish posted:I honestly think it would be if there weren't so many crap characters. Quark who does nothing, Alice who is poo poo, Ruined Clover. RUINED CLOVER! Clover was ruined way before she showed up in Virtue's Last Reward. 
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Jul 11, 2016 01:53
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voltcatfish posted:I honestly think it would be if there weren't so many crap characters. Quark who does nothing, Alice who is poo poo, Ruined Clover. RUINED CLOVER! This is probably my biggest gripe with VLR. Alice and Clover are so ineffectual & blatant fanservice while Quark would be so meh if it weren't for the letter he leaves you. I really wanted Alice and Clover to be cool, and I was really disappointed. I feel like if they hadn't made them directly antagonistic to Dio and instead just made them cool people who happened to be there they would have been better and been able to do some cool stuff. Instead any action they perform is automatically thwarted because you can't have a good ending until the true ending. Plus Alice & Clover get owned in ZTD because it turns out Junpei and Seven took out FTS' base of operations by themselves. Jia posted:I'll try this. Good luck! You should probably bail from the thread if you want to remain unsullied. Arrrthritis fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 02:19
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Arrrthritis posted:Plus Alice & Clover get owned in ZTD because it turns out Junpei and Seven took out FTS' base of operations by themselves. I never even connected those dots. That's awesome
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Jul 11, 2016 02:34
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also Placidity is the best song in vlr and i'm glad it got a remix in this game
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Jul 11, 2016 04:30
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Arrrthritis posted:Plus Alice & Clover get owned in ZTD because it turns out Junpei and Seven took out FTS' base of operations by themselves. Not really. They're going after Brother and all the Left clones, which is not something Junpei stopped. Them destroying their base did absolutely nothing. Also Alice was the best?? She might not have been very relevant to the overall plot but that's like the least important part of these games.
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Jul 11, 2016 04:37
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voltcatfish posted:also Placidity is the best song in vlr and i'm glad it got a remix in this game I really liked that VLR songs were used during D-team segments and 999 songs during C-team. I thought that was a pretty neat touch. Momomo posted:Not really. They're going after Brother and all the Left clones, which is not something Junpei stopped. Them destroying their base did absolutely nothing. I mean Clover botches her operation and Alice's father dies during her rescue, so even if what Seven and Junpei did was ineffectual it's still better than A&C. If you like Alice more power to you, I don't think she's anywhere near the best though and I would argue that she has the worst character design in the entire series.
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Jul 11, 2016 04:56
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W.T. Fits posted:The only thing that really bugged me about the game is that we never find out if Eric's abusive father was arrested or otherwise punished for the murder of his youngest son (probably not, given that he had Eric dump the body in a lake). Granted, it's not important to the overall narrative if he was or not, but I want to know and not knowing bugs the hell out of me. Wait, was it ever made explicit Eric's dad killed his youngest son? I don't remember that part.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:21
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For a second when Diana put her birdcage in the transporter with baby Delta I got confused with what was happening with Phi and thought that Diana was her own mother and Sigma had a baby with his own daughter and Phi had a sister-mother. After that wild moment of insanity the rest of the twists didn't seem so crazy.
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Jul 11, 2016 07:05
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Wait, was it ever made explicit Eric's dad killed his youngest son? I don't remember that part. I mean, there's no explicit flashback to the moment or something, but it's pretty obvious.
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Jul 11, 2016 07:17
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Wait, was it ever made explicit Eric's dad killed his youngest son? I don't remember that part. it's never stated outright, but he's extremely abusive and eric was made to hide the body, so
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Jul 11, 2016 07:19
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U-DO Burger posted:I'm still confused as to how a 124 year-old man managed to overpower a grown woman in her, what, late 20s, early 30s? He isn't really 124. Uchikoshi said he is still alive in VLR, so it is implied that he used the transporter. I'm guessing when he was like 50 or something he used the transporter to go to the mid 2020s or something. This is a pretty late response, but whatever.
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Jul 11, 2016 07:43
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Wait, was it ever made explicit Eric's dad killed his youngest son? I don't remember that part. There's a flashback where you hear his dad beating (and I think drowning?) his younger brother while Eric screams for him to stop. I think you get that if you press the button on Q team.
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Jul 11, 2016 08:26
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Ibram Gaunt posted:There's a flashback where you hear his dad beating (and I think drowning?) his younger brother while Eric screams for him to stop. He strangled him to death, then had Eric dump the body in a lake. It's part of why Eric flips out so badly after you find Mira's corpse in the Pod Room. Seeing the woman he loved was murdered the same way his little brother was triggered him.
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Jul 11, 2016 08:48
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As much of an unhinged rear end in a top hat Eric is, I can't really bring myself to hate him. The guy is just so broken as a person that he clings to anyone who gives him even slight validation, even if it's the killer of his own mother. He's completely pathetic but I do kind of pity him.
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Jul 11, 2016 11:00
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He needed a better resolution other than "eh, I'm gonna marry crazy girl over here" but he was entertaining during the whole game. good man.
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Jul 11, 2016 11:16
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Just finished the game, thought it was great, though I think VLR was better. Random thoughts: - The Q/Delta reveal reminded me a lot of the Old Sigma twist in that my first reaction was  followed by 'this is bullshit' followed by realizing it holds up pretty well and there were loads of hints I didn't process because it's Uchikoshi and every other line is equally likely to be a clue or a red herring. For example, I spent the whole game wondering why they weren't calling it the Nonary Game any more but somehow never reached the obvious conclusion that it's because there were 10 players, not 9.- I rolled my eyes when they dropped the Transporter in out of nowhere but even though it's a transparent plot device it worked pretty well in context - it had clearly defined rules and they took the consequences seriously. I found the implication of Diana and Sigma and their kids starving to death in the shelter really upsetting  - I kept waiting for there to be some twist with Eric because his backstory just seemed too obvious complete with an abusive dad straight out of central casting (with standard anime voice acting) literally going 'shut up and get me a beer you brat' but no, turns out he really was just a messed-up guy with no ulterior motives. I guess it's sort of a meta-twist to have a genuine ordinary person with no secret connection to anybody else in the cast after the two previous games? - I was hoping for a bit more out of the Free the Soul plotline - I'm not sure the story really gained much from Delta's whole 'kill 6 billion to save 8 billion' vs him just being a crazy cult leader as was implied in VLR. It was nice to have a properly sadistic villain this time around though. - The only thing I was disappointed with was how Junpei and Akane were presented. Emo Junpei was great but it would have made far more sense for him to have been disillusioned by his childhood sweetheart manipulating him into a fake deathtrap instead of 'I've seen some poo poo man' complete with noir-pastiche soundtrack. They didn't really explore the contradictions between Akane's image and her real self as implied by VLR which was a real missed opportunity. Didn't help that she was definitely the weak link voice acting-wise. Also having Junpei ask about Santa only for the conversation to get sidetracked was infuriating. I guess they were trying to minimise 999 spoilers, but come on. - Is the consensus that using the morphogenetic field to transfer information (possibly assisted by the player/Blick Winkel) is a distinct process from SHIFT then? I do like the steady progression of time travel abilities through the series - the late-game reveal of morphogenetic field manipulation in 999 -> inter-timeline memory transfer all over the place in VLR with SHIFT revealed at the very end -> everyone and their mother SHIFTing and Transporting in ZTD tl;dr game was great A+ would shoot an offscreen cripple again
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Jul 11, 2016 13:58
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Gato posted:- Is the consensus that using the morphogenetic field to transfer information (possibly assisted by the player/Blick Winkel) is a distinct process from SHIFT then? Apparently so, since there's that one scene where Carlos witnesses events he wasn't personally present for in any timeline. I sort of wish they'd kept it ambiguous whether the alternate timelines you're exploring through the morphogenetic field actually exist instead of going all-in on the many-worlds interpretation being true, though; playing through doomed timelines is a lot more palatable when you're just exploring possible futures instead of outright killing people.
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Jul 11, 2016 14:15
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Giving the espers stupid superhero power names for their weird psychic abilities is easily the worst part about this game.
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Jul 11, 2016 15:15
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The Man On The Moon Rules The Infinite Time by never really getting into this SHIFTing business at all, really Oh D-Team
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Jul 11, 2016 15:26
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Thuryl posted:Apparently so, since there's that one scene where Carlos witnesses events he wasn't personally present for in any timeline. I sort of wish they'd kept it ambiguous whether the alternate timelines you're exploring through the morphogenetic field actually exist instead of going all-in on the many-worlds interpretation being true, though; playing through doomed timelines is a lot more palatable when you're just exploring possible futures instead of outright killing people. If it makes you feel better, every possible timeline existing means all decisions are meaningless anyway since there's a timeline for every possible permutation (there's a timeline where Team C's shifting adventure didn't happen so all those alternate timeline selves that were killed actually survived, there's billions of timelines where shifters from timelines we didnt see jumped in and changed things) and they all happen - we just don't see most of them. Therefore you can't criticize the shifters for not caring about alternate lives since the writer chose to only show us the timeline where not caring is the only path to a good result as opposed to one of the billions where that isn't the case. The game makes a lot more sense if you assume all the people with that idea are wrong and the characters are really just pulling information out of the morphogenetic field about possible alternate timelines that never really happened, which is why they only see the most likely timelines - same reasoning applies to the quantum computer, it can simulate alternate paths without actually making each one a universe. Of course that makes it harder for the writer to navel gaze about killing alternate timeline selves.
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Jul 11, 2016 15:32
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I think the deci =10 thing is more of a coincidence than anything The Latin root for decision is entirely separate from the Latin root for decim. It isn't called the Nonary game because the mechanics of the game are entirely different this time around and the only real relation tying it to the prior games is Zero running it.
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Jul 11, 2016 15:37
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I doubt Uchikoshi knows or cares about the words having different roots. It was probably deliberate.
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Jul 11, 2016 16:03
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Terper posted:The Man On The Moon Rules The Infinite Time by never really getting into this SHIFTing business at all, really on the one hand i wish D-Team had been allowed to have the crazy SHIFTing stuff, on the other Carlos wacky time adventures was great
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Jul 11, 2016 16:04
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blackmongoose posted:If it makes you feel better, every possible timeline existing means all decisions are meaningless anyway since there's a timeline for every possible permutation (there's a timeline where Team C's shifting adventure didn't happen so all those alternate timeline selves that were killed actually survived, there's billions of timelines where shifters from timelines we didnt see jumped in and changed things) and they all happen - we just don't see most of them. Therefore you can't criticize the shifters for not caring about alternate lives since the writer chose to only show us the timeline where not caring is the only path to a good result as opposed to one of the billions where that isn't the case. This had also occurred to me. Curiously, it somehow doesn't make me feel better. quote:The game makes a lot more sense if you assume all the people with that idea are wrong and the characters are really just pulling information out of the morphogenetic field about possible alternate timelines that never really happened, which is why they only see the most likely timelines - same reasoning applies to the quantum computer, it can simulate alternate paths without actually making each one a universe. Of course that makes it harder for the writer to navel gaze about killing alternate timeline selves. After reading this I considered the possibility that you're actually playing as Sean the whole time and everything you play through is you simulating different futures, but I think the fact that you don't get a game over until a few seconds after Sean's deletion in the Complete Death ending pretty much contradicts that theory. Which is a pity, because it makes sense of a few things that "you're playing as Delta" doesn't. (I know the closest thing to an official answer is that you're playing as a pandimensional being who just borrows the perspective of various characters at various times, but that answer's boring.) Thuryl fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 16:09
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U-DO Burger posted:Woo, game finished, I can read this thread now. They got a hell of a lot of use out of Trepidation, though!  I agree, though, Chill and Rigor was one of the best along with Tranquility, which I think has only been used once in the entire series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VAUu-ODwnU 999 had a pretty wonderful soundtrack and so did VLR. For what I dislike about 999, I do like how it does the straight-up horror/suspense and who-dunnit murder mystery with minimal sci-fi trappings in its own unique way.
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Jul 11, 2016 17:14
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:They got a hell of a lot of use out of Trepidation, though! I don't care who disagrees with me, but I loveD the gratuitous use of Blue Bird Lamentation in ZTD.  I could listen to that track all day.
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Jul 11, 2016 18:03
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:To be fair Diana being Phi's mom is foreshadowed as poo poo from minute one once you notice Phi's glaring red eyebrows, which she never had before. Yeah, as soon as that was introduced I thought "Hm what other characters have red hair, oh Diana. No clue how Diana could be her mom but I'm guessing she is somehow." The scene of Diana hugging Phi in Dcom basically cemented that suspicion.
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Jul 11, 2016 19:52
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