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Helicon One posted:Under Fozziesov and jump fatigue mechanics the Deep North where FCON and RAZOR lived was turbofucked the second anyone mounted anything like a serious challenge on our space. I completely get why they didn't want to move all their poo poo to Saranen but not doing so until it was way too late ended up costing them a shitload of supercaps and assets on their very own trail of tears. what I head from one of FCON skyteam is, at the start they never assumed MBC to be a serious threat to Branch, when they see whats happening in Deklein they are still chill about it and never informed their member to start packing. so the day comes when poo poo does hit the fan, they finally sound the retreat horn and tell member to keep combat ships in their staging to put up suicidal defence, so their heavy assets have more time to leave. sadly its branch the only feasible way to get out is wh...... for the route taking part, no comment, in the end FCON is still FCON.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:36
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FranktheBank posted:I already rat, I just want to try guri space. You could join horde if you really wanted to try gurista space. No entry requirements, decent amount of space. Leave when you want.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:43
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Zakrello posted:what I head from one of FCON skyteam is, at the start they never assumed MBC to be a serious threat to Branch, when they see whats happening in Deklein they are still chill about it and never informed their member to start packing. so the day comes when poo poo does hit the fan, they finally sound the retreat horn and tell member to keep combat ships in their staging to put up suicidal defence, so their heavy assets have more time to leave. sadly its branch the only feasible way to get out is wh...... RZR legitimately thought they were fine against OOS and company. And then they weren't and it was too late. And rightly so, GSF had no interest in deploying to Branch to bail them out.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:44
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 We told our dudes to do a spring cleaning before the CO2 backstab. Then the MBC were so inept at reinforcing poo poo that we managed to evac all our crap after UMI got hit. heh.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:48
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Wibla posted:
Honest question, what did y'all do that helped you guys stay afloat when plenty of other coalition allies floundered?
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Jul 26, 2016 19:51
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is wibla owns a valid answer to that
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Jul 26, 2016 19:56
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FruitNYogurtParfait posted:is wibla owns a valid answer to that Checks out imo
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Jul 26, 2016 19:59
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Endie posted:In terms of bodies in fleet? Sure: a mediocre stability was semi-required on those. But that's not what I was talking about in what you quoted: I talked about "developing talent". In particular, FCs, although spies and scouts and logisticians also count. An alliance on its own desperately needs all of these, or else it won't have FCs to defend space or assets, those who do step up will be hard-countered, its coffers will run dry and its members be without ships; an alliance in a bloc can coast by on a reliance on alliance FCs, spies and scouts, while almost certainly still needing logisticians; a corp in GSF will be under no particular pressure to come up with any of them. This is a good post. MiniLuv operates a lot like a corporation of its own, and one of the things Warr originally pushed for when I took a leadership position was developing FC talent (and support talent). It's something we constantly have to work on. If we don't, we're at risk of becoming inactive if the wrong 2-4 people go AFK. I think MiniLuv's motivation to do that is probably similar to the issue of corp culture and internal talent development in GSF or really any alliance.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:04
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dreamin' posted:and on their own they can easily carve out some good space unless the MBC spend the I don't know if this guy is actually EXE leadership as he purports to be but if it is it shows why a lot of our allies would have put themselves in a bad position if left to their own devices. If the Imperium had tried to moved to Delve 2 months ago when the MBC was still in a froth and hadn't set down any roots it would have been a disaster. First off consider how hard this move op has been with no resistance and a relatively easy time to extract titans from Deklein/elsewhere. Imagine if MBC including PL and Test had been fully camping our staging and had dictors everywhere + we didn't have an online citadel network. Even a junior detective can tell this situation was a loser that was basically impossible but apparently this guy "proposed" it two months ago when it would have been a total failure. This is why I was happy with GSF leadership who made 90% of the right calls during the war and saved our alliance vs some of our allies who wanted (and sometimes did) incredibly foolish things that in some cases literally killed their alliance. On top of all this I don't know if this guy actually is EXE leadership, Mo was usually a pretty sharp dude so I wouldn't expect him to say something as silly as "I suggested moving to Delve 2 months ago". vulvamancer fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 20:10
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to follow them, which seem unlikely (which is why we made the proposal to go to delve like two months ago already 
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So yesterday I was up in Deklein (smuggling out some BPOs through a WH, hah) and I noticed it's still pretty empty. The ADMs don't look half bad, but I don't think anyone will hit the level of production / ISK generation we got out of the place without a long period of diplomatic negotiation and concerted renter recruitment. Seems like we got way more out of Deklein than CFCdot will even if they hold it for years. Makes it slightly more palatable that they're using our industrial infrastructure for themselves 
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Jul 26, 2016 20:10
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vulvamancer posted:I don't know if this guy is actually EXE leadership as he purports to be but if it is it shows why a lot of our allies would have put themselves in a bad position if left to their own devices. If the Imperium had tried to moved to Delve 2 months ago when the MBC was still in a froth and hadn't set down any root it would have been a disaster. First off consider how hard this move op has been with no resistance and a relatively easy time to extract titans from Deklein/elsewhere. Imagine if MBC including PL and Test had been fully camping our staging and had dictors everywhere + we didn't have an online citadel network. well this is Mo's SA account, so...
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Jul 26, 2016 20:11
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Landsknecht posted:well this is Mo's SA account, so... I guess even sharp people can miss the blindingly obvious sometimes then...
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Jul 26, 2016 20:17
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vulvamancer posted:I guess even sharp people can miss the blindingly obvious sometimes then... GSF_Directorate.txt
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Jul 26, 2016 20:19
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hey guys this guy's name is rape train backwards isn't that funny? let's make him CFO and see how he does
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Jul 26, 2016 20:36
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vulvamancer posted:I guess even sharp people can miss the blindingly obvious sometimes then... I think you are giving a lot of credence to "What people say on the internet". Test only poked their nose out of vale for big timers once the sov was all wrapped up, and horde despite all the talk of not being invested, is like suuuuuper invested in their new space. We probably could have broken away when SMA and FCON both walked away and been fine.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:04
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vulvamancer posted:I don't know if this guy is actually EXE leadership as he purports to be but if it is it shows why a lot of our allies would have put themselves in a bad position if left to their own devices. If the Imperium had tried to moved to Delve 2 months ago when the MBC was still in a froth and hadn't set down any roots it would have been a disaster. First off consider how hard this move op has been with no resistance and a relatively easy time to extract titans from Deklein/elsewhere. Imagine if MBC including PL and Test had been fully camping our staging and had dictors everywhere + we didn't have an online citadel network. The difference between starting to talk about a plan of an exit to Delve two months ago (which would not have meant moving right away, duh) with everyone on board feeling good about the whole thing and what you ended up doing right now with not even discussing the option in the six people autocrats slack and then refusing to even talk about "minor" details like where the gently caress allies might want to put safe towers etc for days after the announcement is not that the MBC would have been more likely to follow, it would just have saved everyone a few weeks of pointless hair pulling over more squandered time with absolutely zero communication or coordination in these last offensives in pure blind and whatnot.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:06
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Lol if you think you're space important but didn't know or couldn't find out. I had a whole cyno chain up with towers and cyno caches on the way the morning after the "were moving somewhereTM" announcement
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Jul 26, 2016 21:18
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Rhymenoserous posted:I think you are giving a lot of credence to "What people say on the internet". TEST is slowly turning into a serious alliance again, they can field a full fleet of maels or canes
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Jul 26, 2016 21:28
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Syndic Thrass posted:Also is blazing zero really frabba? Not sure I buy that Confirming whoever that other dude is is not me. Hope everyone is being excellent to one another.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:42
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Syndic Thrass posted:Lol if you think you're space important but didn't know or couldn't find out. I had a whole cyno chain up with towers and cyno caches on the way the morning after the "were moving somewhereTM" announcement That's great for you, but known awesomeman Wibla from this very thread was pulling his hair out over no one not wanting to divulge any information, even in private convos, for days. General destination, sure. Any useful details, no. So I guess you're even more awesome. EXE had already made the decision to not even bother anymore so who knows, maybe if we had tried, it would have turned out we are the most space important of all?
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Jul 26, 2016 21:43
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A lot of us had independently figured out entirely by process of elimination. There were really only 3 candidates and they all sit in the same general area. Querious, Delve, Fountain. Fountain is too close to the north. Querious would cause a bunch of QFC griping and generally not be worth the negative press/odds of bringing a bunch of dick swingers down to interfere. Delve has decent moons, decent ratting, NPC stagers, and most of us know the region like the back of our hands from invading it so drat often. The cherry on top of it all is if we take it, Mittens puts a thumb in DJ's eye over the whole "Delve is Goons" thing and can quote "It sure is, how's the north you didn't want?" right back at him. It's a no brainer from every possible standpoint. Hell in the AAD thread where Cap was asking where we were going I posted the laz take us to delve video because it was glaringly obvious.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:55
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wibla owns, EXE owns. Also it was kinda obvious since GSOLers kept putting down corp bookmarks for the towers so the whole chain was obvious a week ahead of time.
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Jul 26, 2016 22:05
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Rhymenoserous posted:A lot of us had independently figured out entirely by process of elimination. There were really only 3 candidates and they all sit in the same general area. Querious, Delve, Fountain. Fountain is too close to the north. Querious would cause a bunch of QFC griping and generally not be worth the negative press/odds of bringing a bunch of dick swingers down to interfere. Delve has decent moons, decent ratting, NPC stagers, and most of us know the region like the back of our hands from invading it so drat often. The cherry on top of it all is if we take it, Mittens puts a thumb in DJ's eye over the whole "Delve is Goons" thing and can quote "It sure is, how's the north you didn't want?" right back at him. It's a no brainer from every possible standpoint. Also If anyone wants come at you with caps in delve it either involves going through a regional gate or LSH and either way you are hosed in regards to escalating as any late comers will be hell bubbled on their way to reinforce or get picked off by russians
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Jul 26, 2016 22:28
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dreamin' posted:The difference between starting to talk about a plan of an exit to Delve two months ago (which would not have meant moving right away, duh) with everyone on board feeling good about the whole thing and what you ended up doing right now with not even discussing the option in the six people autocrats slack and then refusing to even talk about "minor" details like where the gently caress allies might want to put safe towers etc for days after the announcement is not that the MBC would have been more likely to follow, it would just have saved everyone a few weeks of pointless hair pulling over more squandered time with absolutely zero communication or coordination in these last offensives in pure blind and whatnot. Without people attacking the space you occupy, claims of being overextended are white noise. Now that people have, why are you leaving if it's exactly what you wanted to do anyway.
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Jul 26, 2016 22:49
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man I'm starting to realize why exe was left in the dark
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Jul 26, 2016 22:50
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All I hear is that someone didn't get their way when they wanted. Is this a case of acting elite and attempting to wag the dog
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Jul 26, 2016 22:52
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Elsa posted:All I hear is that someone didn't get their way when they wanted. Is this a case of acting elite and attempting to wag the dog No it's another case of allies conveniently being branded utter poo poo the moment they leave. Lugnut Seatcushion fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 23:05
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Elsa posted:Without people attacking the space you occupy, claims of being overextended are white noise. By that logic every idiotic thing you do is a great idea until reality catches up to you and you finally get run over by a car crossing the highway drunk every night for a year. There have been about 100 hours worth of firesides talking about how terribly asymmetric the new sovereignty system is in regards to offense and defense, too bad that poo poo only happened after talk of overextension wasn't merely "white noise" any more. Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 23:11
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Syndic Thrass posted:Lol if you think you're space important but didn't know or couldn't find out. I had a whole cyno chain up with towers and cyno caches on the way the morning after the "were moving somewhereTM" announcement Yeah I guess autocrats are not space important enough  luminalflux posted:wibla owns, EXE owns.  I need a waffe alt... Reverand maynard posted:man I'm starting to realize why exe was left in the dark  Elsa posted:All I hear is that someone didn't get their way when they wanted. Is this a case of acting elite and attempting to wag the dog There's two things here... one is that we were overextended, the other is that coordination and communication has been crap for the past 1-1.5 years or so, something that could be ignored somewhat as long as we were winning all the things. cravius posted:No it's another case of allies conveniently being branded utter poo poo the moment they leave. Ding.
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Jul 26, 2016 23:12
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dreamin' posted:By that logic every idiotic thing you do is a great idea until reality catches up to you and you finally get run over by a car crossing the highway drunk every night for a year. There have been about 100 hours worth of firesides talking about how terribly asymmetric the new sovereignty system is in regards to offense and defense, too bad that poo poo only happened after talk of overextension wasn't merely "white noise" any more. what so a coalition should have moved to Querious as a pre-emptive thing? why would you do that unless you have to. why would you move when your space is holding. ?? edit: Delve
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Jul 26, 2016 23:22
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and when it became true, why did you not come with note this is the second time I've asked this question dreamin' posted:The difference between okay nevermind I get it now. Anagram of GINGER fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 23:26
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Elsa posted:what No, you doofus, the coalition should have realized that completely non-existant military coordination combined with trying to hold seven giant regions of space is a recipe for disaster, and got to work on both of these issues before it was too late. There was no need to hold all this space. Deklein population density was like order of magnitude higher than the rest of the Imperium and it worked fine for GSF, all 40k imperium pilots combined had no need for 7 regions. Instead people chose to believe that the imperium was going from one win to another until "suddenly" everything was lost in a few weeks, which cost the coalition a few dozen trillion, about 25k pilots and half of the alliances. And, according to your words, forced us to sit around in Saranen with our thumbs up our butts long enough for the hostiles to lose all interest (which only happened this last sunday right) so we could creep away to Delve
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Jul 26, 2016 23:33
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luminalflux posted:Also it was kinda obvious since GSOLers kept putting down corp bookmarks for the towers so the whole chain was obvious a week ahead of time. The corp office suddenly popping up in a very far away system is what made it for me.
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Jul 26, 2016 23:48
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dreamin' posted:so we could creep away to Delve I think you mean triumphantly not wanting the lovely Northern Sov in favor of the clearly more lucious Delve region which is far superior in everyway and that was the plan from the beginning.
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Jul 26, 2016 23:58
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dreamin' posted:No, you doofus, the coalition should have realized that completely non-existant military coordination combined with trying to hold seven giant regions of space is a recipe for disaster, and got to work on both of these issues before it was too late. There was no need to hold all this space. Deklein population density was like order of magnitude higher than the rest of the Imperium and it worked fine for GSF, all 40k imperium pilots combined had no need for 7 regions. Instead people chose to believe that the imperium was going from one win to another until "suddenly" everything was lost in a few weeks, which cost the coalition a few dozen trillion, about 25k pilots and half of the alliances. And, according to your words, forced us to sit around in Saranen with our thumbs up our butts long enough for the hostiles to lose all interest (which only happened this last sunday right) so we could creep away to Delve delete this
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Jul 26, 2016 23:58
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Reverand maynard posted:Also If anyone wants come at you with caps in delve it either involves going through a regional gate or LSH and either way you are hosed in regards to escalating as any late comers will be hell bubbled on their way to reinforce or get picked off by russians Or go all-in right from the start, if you're confident ...or if you're casino-rich and very bored, set it up way ahead of time by using spy alts in a renter corp to set up citadels and buy/steal/import/build/smuggle/etc a stockpile of ships+fittings+implants and use a rorqual to move jumpclones so backup (and replacements) are already there before the invasion starts. That would take a lot of effort, but there are quite a few turbospergs with turbo-grudges
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Jul 27, 2016 00:00
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dreamin' posted:No, you doofus, the coalition should have realized that completely non-existant military coordination combined with trying to hold seven giant regions of space is a recipe for disaster, and got to work on both of these issues before it was too late. There was no need to hold all this space. Deklein population density was like order of magnitude higher than the rest of the Imperium and it worked fine for GSF, all 40k imperium pilots combined had no need for 7 regions. Instead people chose to believe that the imperium was going from one win to another until "suddenly" everything was lost in a few weeks, which cost the coalition a few dozen trillion, about 25k pilots and half of the alliances. And, according to your words, forced us to sit around in Saranen with our thumbs up our butts long enough for the hostiles to lose all interest (which only happened this last sunday right) so we could creep away to Delve Shouldn't you direct this at people who have influence over space policy and not elsa? Unless you're just venting.
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Jul 27, 2016 00:24
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dreamin' posted:No, you doofus, the coalition should have realized that completely non-existant military coordination combined with trying to hold seven giant regions of space is a recipe for disaster, and got to work on both of these issues before it was too late. There was no need to hold all this space. Deklein population density was like order of magnitude higher than the rest of the Imperium and it worked fine for GSF, all 40k imperium pilots combined had no need for 7 regions. Instead people chose to believe that the imperium was going from one win to another until "suddenly" everything was lost in a few weeks, which cost the coalition a few dozen trillion, about 25k pilots and half of the alliances. And, according to your words, forced us to sit around in Saranen with our thumbs up our butts long enough for the hostiles to lose all interest (which only happened this last sunday right) so we could creep away to Delve
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Jul 27, 2016 00:26
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dreamin' posted:That's great for you, but known awesomeman Wibla from this very thread was pulling his hair out over no one not wanting to divulge any information, even in private convos, for days. General destination, sure. Any useful details, no. So I guess you're even more awesome. EXE had already made the decision to not even bother anymore so who knows, maybe if we had tried, it would have turned out we are the most space important of all? I think you're trying and it turns out you're a whiny oval office
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Jul 27, 2016 00:27
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4th Horseman posted:Shouldn't you direct this at people who have influence over space policy and not elsa? Unless you're just venting. yeah he's complaining about the cfc not consolidating to the group that did I'm not really sure what his point is
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Jul 27, 2016 00:28
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