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blowfish posted:Not if they get deselected and replaced with red blooded socialists. Who are then entrenched and can put forward one of their own so Grandpa Corbyn can go back to his jam. Even this case involves him quitting as leader though? e: The year 2192. Jeremy Corbyn faces his 187th Labour leadership challenge and loses for the first time, to a sheet of paper with the words "so Pissflaps will post about something else" written on it. Scikar fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 22:10
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spectralent posted:That's the guy but you're right Brazil might be better. The 1984 version of 1984 with Richard Burton as O'Brien is fantastic, and also provides the intro sample to Faster by the Manics
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Aug 31, 2016 22:10
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Stockton South Oh right, I was saying middlesbrough south was tory because it's got all the villages in it, so it has a much higher tory share than boro central does. I'm guessing stockton south does the same all the way to darlo and the moors if it's actually tory?
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Aug 31, 2016 22:10
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Scikar posted:Even this case involves him quitting as leader though? Yeah but actual left wing party Labour without Corbyn is still an actual left wing party. I don't (and I think few people) want a Corbyn party over generally dragging Labour to the left.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:12
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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OwlFancier posted:Oh right, I was saying middlesbrough south was tory because it's got all the villages in it, so it has a much higher tory share than boro central does. Yeah, lots of smaller stuff. One of the few places that returned an SDP MP back in 83!
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Aug 31, 2016 22:12
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Scikar posted:Even this case involves him quitting as leader though? for quite a lot of people, at least here and judging by polls in the general labour electorate, this is not about jeremy corbyn. There is a crack in a system sometimes designed to suppress dissident ideas, and we are going to loving jam that crack open and let the foxes into the chicken coup. Maybe the left is dying, maybe it's reviving, maybe it's mutating to something new. It's loving angry, though.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:15
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forkboy84 posted:Of course all that ignores that I hope Corbyn stands down at some point in 2018 or 2019, before the next general election. He's got a perfect opportunity to enact change to make the Labour Party more democratic, more responsive to the membership. I certainly hope that is the road he goes down. But there's not a lot of hope he's going to win a general election. Though nor is Owen Smith, Yvette Cooper, Dan Jarvis or any other oval office Labour can drag out. Not unless there's serious change in how the PLP are behaving themselves. (I did think Corbyn could win last year, even up until May or so this year, but too much damage has been done with little sign of an end to all the squabbling. And regardless of which side comes out on top, it's hugely off-putting to the wider electorate. Hell, even as a Labour member I'm dying for the election to be over just for the tiniest remote possibility that Labour can get back to opposing the government rather than its own members) This is also very much me. I was kind of hoping that Corbyn being elected would lead to a really clear "Oh, I see! There were people put off by our we'l-be-tougher-on-benefits stance and the racist mug! Let's trend a bit left", and hopefully go on to win in the general. After that didn't seem to be happening I was hoping he'd just be around long enough to get someone similar but younger, a bit more media saavy (by which I mean "Less prone to verbal fuckups" than """""electable""""") and less tied down to the minefields of the past in play; I had then thought it'd seem reasonable to go with the Corbyn now, Heir Of Corbyn later kind of approach to win a general. Now I'm just hoping he's around long enough to prevent the PLP locking all the Labour members in a small box anytime a decision of any relevance whatsoever is made.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:16
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I wonder if I write to the boundary commission they'd consider renaming those constituencies cuntinton and turddale so they don't besmirch the name of the good bits.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:16
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e;fb blowfish posted:Yeah but actual left wing party Labour without Corbyn is still an actual left wing party. I don't (and I think few people) want a Corbyn party over generally dragging Labour to the left. EDIT: I mean, I don't want a Corbyn Party. I want a left-wing labour party. The fact the Labour Party apparently can't offer me that unless I violently reject most of it's senior figures is something of an issue. This is the big issue; if this leadership contest had been "We've learnt our lesson, here's a lefty candidate who's better at playing nice in interviews", then great. But it's not: We're still getting told our views are rank entryism, better suited for other parties. We're being warned, still, of the apocalyptic effects of considering a left view. Some people are even saying that if Labour won't stay neoliberal and blairite then the party is just better off not existing! This is ridiculous. spectralent fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 22:19
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blowfish posted:Yeah but actual left wing party Labour without Corbyn is still an actual left wing party. I don't (and I think few people) want a Corbyn party over generally dragging Labour to the left. Oh I see. I didn't think anyone took the personality cult line seriously except Pissflaps.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:19
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I'll be sad to see Corbyn not PM because I genuinely can't think of any politician I would actually trust with running the country more than him but I'll trade him for someone in a better position to win an election on a similar platform.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:21
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The 1984 version of 1984 with Richard Burton as O'Brien is fantastic, and also provides the intro sample to Faster by the Manics I love the intros on The Holy Bible, hell I love the Holy Bible easy top five albums of all time, seeing it live was worth going to Wolverhampton.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:29
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StoneOfShame posted:I love the intros on The Holy Bible, hell I love the Holy Bible easy top five albums of all time, seeing it live was worth going to Wolverhampton. The intro to The Intense Humming of Evil comes from an absolutely incredible Soviet documentary about the Nuremberg Trials. I've never seen a documentary that's so angry
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Aug 31, 2016 22:34
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The intro to The Intense Humming of Evil comes from an absolutely incredible Soviet documentary about the Nuremberg Trials. I've never seen a documentary that's so angry Was it mad at the nazis or the trials?
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Aug 31, 2016 22:40
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spectralent posted:Was it mad at the nazis or the trials? Traditionally the Soviets weren't big fans of the Nazis.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:51
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spectralent posted:Was it mad at the nazis or the trials? You be the judge: "The court has come. The court of the Nations. And into the courtroom will come the martyrs of Majdanek, and Oswiecim. From the ditch of Kerch, the dead will rise. They will arise from the graves, they will arise from flames bringing with them the acrid smoke and the deathly odour of scorched and martyred Europe. And the children, they too will come, stern and merciless. The butchers had no pity on them; now the victims will judge the butchers. Today the tear of the child is the judge. The grief of the mother is the prosecutor."
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Aug 31, 2016 22:52
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spectralent posted:Was it mad at the nazis or the trials? Both, in that the Soviet position was that every single Nazi official tried should have been executed (as well as, as far as I recall, the Nazi scientists that America got in Operation Paperclip)
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Aug 31, 2016 22:53
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The intro to The Intense Humming of Evil comes from an absolutely incredible Soviet documentary about the Nuremberg Trials. I've never seen a documentary that's so angry I thought it was from a radio broadcast reporting on the trials, I've not seen the documentary in question but it could have featured in that to. The angriest documentary I've seen is The Look of Silence where the almost noble, stoic calmness of its 'protagonist' just heightens the anger. StoneOfShame fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 22:54
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blowfish posted:That's why you refuse to vote for a Labour candidate who is in the Labour party and is against the Labour leader Corbae who you believe is the cancer that is killing Labour. Checks out. Yes it does check out.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:57
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StoneOfShame posted:I thought it was from a radio broadcast reporting on the trials Commonly thought but incorrect. It's actually slightly abridged from the documentary
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Aug 31, 2016 22:59
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blowfish posted:(stop posting) ...and it's Pissflaps o clock again (at which time he feels the need to inform me via PM that he's not, in fact, going to stop posting). ps stop posting
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Aug 31, 2016 23:00
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Scikar posted:Oh I see. I didn't think anyone took the personality cult line seriously except Pissflaps. There 100%, definitely is a group of people desperate to turn Corbyn into a cult of personality. Not many, but you cannot deny they exist.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:01
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Commonly thought but incorrect. It's actually slightly abridged from the documentary Cool what is the documentary/
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Aug 31, 2016 23:03
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Both, in that the Soviet position was that every single Nazi official tried should have been executed (as well as, as far as I recall, the Nazi scientists that America got in Operation Paperclip) That's kind of what I meant; I guess in retrospect asking if it was either or was dumb 
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Aug 31, 2016 23:04
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StoneOfShame posted:Cool what is the documentary/ "In 1946, Soviet filmakers Karmen and Svilov produced a documentary about the Nuremberg Trials - Суд народов (Judgment of the Peoples). The quote at the start of TIHOE is from the English language dub of that Russian film, renamed The Nuremberg Trials."
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Aug 31, 2016 23:04
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serious gaylord posted:There 100%, definitely is a group of people desperate to turn Corbyn into a cult of personality. Not many, but you cannot deny they exist. I'm sure they do, but I'm also pretty sure there's greens who think veganised should be legally mandated and children should be forcefed whatever okra is or whatever, I don't find them a worthwhile topic of conversation when discussing the wider party.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:06
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StoneOfShame posted:Cool what is the documentary/ I can't find a link on youtube I'm afraid, the one that you get when you search for it is an American one
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Aug 31, 2016 23:06
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Nuremberg-Trials-1947-Soviet-Documentary/dp/B003XENV1A/ref=sr_1_4 it's this if you want to spend a couple of quid [edit] The full quote is: The court has come. The court of the nations, and into the courtroom will come the martyrs of Majdanek and Oswiecim. From the ditch of Kerch the dead will rise. They will rise from the graves, they will rise from the flames, bringing with them the acrid smoke and deathly odour of a scorched and martyred Europe. And the children, they too will come; stern and merciless. The butchers had no pity on them, but now the victims will judge the butchers. Today every drop of spilt innocent blood will speak for itself, and every wrinkle will call for retribution. Today the tear of the child is the judge, the grief of the mother is the prosecutor. Oh what a long and painful road judges and prosecutors had to plod to reach this courtroom, before fascism could be tried it had to be vanquished (etc, talking about how the Red Army won the war) MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 23:07
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serious gaylord posted:There 100%, definitely is a group of people desperate to turn Corbyn into a cult of personality. Not many, but you cannot deny they exist. It's unfortunate, because whoever his spiritual successors are will be judged by the standards of a perfect ideal of what Corbyn could be by them, but that's what happens when you sabotage even the moderate left for a generation.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:07
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I find it strange that these die hard Corbyn fans seem to have only discovered him in the last 12 months when he's spent his entire working life as an MP.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:09
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spectralent posted:I'm sure they do, but I'm also pretty sure there's greens who think veganised should be legally mandated and children should be forcefed whatever okra is or whatever, I don't find them a worthwhile topic of conversation when discussing the wider party. I'm pretty sure most vegans disagree with the ethics of murder being optional and it's not really that absurd an argument Pissflaps posted:I find it strange that these die hard Corbyn fans seem to have only discovered him in the last 12 months when he's spent his entire working life as an MP. name one poster
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Aug 31, 2016 23:09
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Pissflaps posted:I find it strange that these die hard Corbyn fans seem to have only discovered him in the last 12 months when he's spent his entire working life as an MP. Uh... Why?
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Aug 31, 2016 23:09
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Spangly A posted:name one poster Name one poster who what? OwlFancier posted:Uh... Guavanaut just described the man as 'perfect'. You'd think the perfect ideal of a labour leader would have prompted more discussion. Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 23:12
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I'm pretty sure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPAcZgTUGts is the run of them. It's chopped into 5m pieces though. Edit: The piece from TIHOE is at 4m in to part 2 Moonwolf fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 23:13
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I would say """modern""" politics really has the bit about when you should act technocratic and when you should have debates and make subjective decisions and stuff. At the really high level, modern neolib/Blairite/what-have-you delusions are a delusion that one overarching direction for high level policy is objectively superior rather than what people (either ~the people~ or decisionmakers acting in the interest of ~the people~ or of their favourite special interest group rather than as delegates) prefer. At lower, follow-on levels everyone is then supposed to have a say on how exactly to swallow the bitter pills delivered by the one true high level policy framework, when instead this is where policy should just be implemented without high-effort low-value feature creep.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:13
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Pissflaps posted:Name one poster who what? No he didn't, he described how a certain group of people view Corbyn, not himself.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:15
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hi all just checking in to remind you that its all hosed but who cares because the british public are terrible anyway also met my friend at the pub, his brother is now on the labour purge team (apparently they all call it that) and spends his day checking peoples twitter for thought crimes like saying positive things about the green party so they can be kicked out the labour party is our only hope and its poo poo and doesnt deserve to win see you all in a month peace out 
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Aug 31, 2016 23:16
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serious gaylord posted:No he didn't, he described how a certain group of people view Corbyn, not himself. I know. And I'm talking about that group of people, not him.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:16
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Pissflaps posted:Guavanaut just described the man as 'perfection'. You'd think the perfect ideal of a labour leader would have prompted more discussion. I then described those people trying to build a cult of personality around him as imprinting their own ideal of a perfect Labour leader onto him, something that would have been hard for them to do when he was not Labour leader.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:17
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Spangly A posted:I'm pretty sure most vegans disagree with the ethics of murder being optional and it's not really that absurd an argument No, but at the same time if I had some greens going "We want to build a wind farm" and responded with "You're all loonies who want to feed my kids okra!" I could be reasonably accused of missing the point. Likewise with people who hear "We want a left labour party" and go "That's all just because your a bunch of trotskyite stalinists who want to install comrade corbyn as eternal president!" as seems to happen with depressing regularity.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:17
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