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Cancelbot posted:To contrast with PR chat, where I work is hard on the single branch approach: Wtf is a mobs. Is that like pairing but even more wasteful/useless?
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Oct 4, 2016 21:50
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leper khan posted:Wtf is a mobs. Is that like pairing but even more wasteful/useless? This sounds like the next big thing. I'm going to call my next book "Mob Rule", which promotes programming with mobs of developers who all angrily shout at one typist to type their solution. This will promote a "Survival of the Fittest" mentality and lead to megabucks (for me).
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Oct 4, 2016 21:56
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I've done a little mob programming. I would say it is a huge waste of time 98% of the time. However, the 2% it was useful was when we were setting up a new project/framework. It was faster to just have the team lead do the main setup, routing, etc on a projector so that all the devs understand at least a bare bones version of where everything goes. You end up with a bit less churn at the beginning.
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Oct 4, 2016 22:01
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Had to review a pull request with 3k changes and 250+ files Very topical, asked them to split it up otherwise it's just gonna never get merged.
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Oct 4, 2016 22:03
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Skandranon posted:This sounds like the next big thing. I'm going to call my next book "Mob Rule", which promotes programming with mobs of developers who all angrily shout at one typist to type their solution. This will promote a "Survival of the Fittest" mentality and lead to megabucks (for me). You have to come up with some "mob black-belt" type names, though. Does lynch-master have too much racial connotation?
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Oct 4, 2016 22:09
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Something wrong with using the term "mob boss"?
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Oct 4, 2016 22:18
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taqueso posted:You have to come up with some "mob black-belt" type names, though. Does lynch-master have too much racial connotation?
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Oct 4, 2016 22:18
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necrobobsledder posted:Something wrong with using the term "mob boss"? I push for pair-programming to be 'Wonder-Twins' and mob should be 'Form Voltron'
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Oct 4, 2016 22:52
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Cancelbot posted:To contrast with PR chat, where I work is hard on the single branch approach: We do every commit goes to master and deploys live for pretty much everything. We do synchronous code review at point of commit, it is illegal to refuse if asked to review and takes priority over everything except critical service outages. We don't pair much but do sometimes.
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Oct 5, 2016 00:07
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return0 posted:We do every commit goes to master and deploys live for pretty much everything. We do synchronous code review at point of commit, it is illegal to refuse if asked to review and takes priority over everything except critical service outages. We don't pair much but do sometimes. Wtf so you go prison if you say no ? Are you allowed to say that you will review it but just need a few minutes to wrap your mind up ? What if you really need to go to the washroom you can't say no ?
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Oct 5, 2016 05:05
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AskYourself posted:Wtf so you go prison if you say no ? You die. You are literally murdered.
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Oct 5, 2016 07:38
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What do you guys think about "coding projects" in order to secure a job? I've done them once or twice in the past and ended up hating the actual job once I got hired and kind of swore off doing them again. I'm not happy at my current job so I've been interviewing. I've already done two levels of interviews with this potential company and they want me to do a coding challenge that is suspiciously complete. They want me to build an app: - That allows user registration - Users can post - Users can comment on other's posts - Users can edit content - Users can download an export of all their content This is all pretty straightforward stuff, but to do it right involves basically building a complete app and then handing it over. I have no problem with stuff like Fizzbuzz, but this seems like too much. I either half-rear end it and make myself look bad, or I spend 2-3 days building it right which does not seem like a good use of my time. I get paid for this kind of thing after all. Plus the requirements almost give me the suspicion that they could be using my work for commercial use after I hand it over. I liked the company, but this seems like a bit much. I asked if doing the project was contingent on an offer and the response was basically "do it and we'll let you talk to the CEO about it." I'd be a whole lot more confident doing the work if we had solid terms worked out but they're unwilling to do that. I'm leaning towards telling them to gently caress off. I have other prospects and they already had the chance to quiz me in the technical interview. I even sent over code samples for them to review. But maybe I should just do it? I dunno. My gut tells me I shouldn't but maybe I'm just being dumb and should get over it and throw the app together.
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Oct 5, 2016 12:45
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revmoo posted:What do you guys think about "coding projects" in order to secure a job? I've done them once or twice in the past and ended up hating the actual job once I got hired and kind of swore off doing them again. I'm not happy at my current job so I've been interviewing. I've already done two levels of interviews with this potential company and they want me to do a coding challenge that is suspiciously complete. They want me to build an app: That is way too much functionality for a coding exercise. All the ones I've been asked to do usually take 1-2 hours and should be incomplete by design, so there's more stuff for discussion left over. If you really need the job then I guess you know the answer, but if you're able to tell them to gently caress off that's what I'd suggest.
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Oct 5, 2016 12:53
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revmoo posted:What do you guys think about "coding projects" in order to secure a job? I've done them once or twice in the past and ended up hating the actual job once I got hired and kind of swore off doing them again. I'm not happy at my current job so I've been interviewing. I've already done two levels of interviews with this potential company and they want me to do a coding challenge that is suspiciously complete. They want me to build an app: There is no job and they want to steal your work. The cool thing is that if they actually did that you'd have reasonable grounds to sue.
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Oct 5, 2016 13:01
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revmoo posted:What do you guys think about "coding projects" in order to secure a job? I've done them once or twice in the past and ended up hating the actual job once I got hired and kind of swore off doing them again. I'm not happy at my current job so I've been interviewing. I've already done two levels of interviews with this potential company and they want me to do a coding challenge that is suspiciously complete. They want me to build an app: Agree, that's not reasonable. 8 hours would be about my limit for the entire interview process. Some places (was it github?) do things like "come work for us for a day" as part of the interview, but they pay you for it.
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Oct 5, 2016 13:31
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Just got a (small) PR for caching Bundler gems via a Docker container rejected, with the reason "Please bring this as a part of the improvement ideas for the team to prioritize".  The PR alleviates an issue with a branch that was recently merged into staging that also requires a new gem, and people's Docker containers blew up as a result. I understand the importance of prioritizing changes, but this seemed like a critical issue.
Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 14:13
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Pollyanna posted:Just got a (small) PR for caching Bundler gems via a Docker container rejected, with the reason "Please bring this as a part of the improvement ideas for the team to prioritize".
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Oct 5, 2016 16:40
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How are you supposed to submit fixes if not through a pull request? An e-mail attachment with a patch file? A herd of goats tattooed with the diff contents paraded through the office?
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Oct 5, 2016 16:42
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Pollyanna posted:Just got a (small) PR for caching Bundler gems via a Docker container rejected, with the reason "Please bring this as a part of the improvement ideas for the team to prioritize". Did you tell the reviewer or the rest of your team, personally and not just a comment on the PR, "I found a critical issue and will be submitting a PR to fix it"? No offense intended but if they're fresh off your gigantic refactoring PRs they might not have actually understood that this was a defect that needed fixing in the short term.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:44
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leper khan posted:There is no job and they want to steal your work. The cool thing is that if they actually did that you'd have reasonable grounds to sue. That's my guess as well.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:43
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csammis posted:Did you tell the reviewer or the rest of your team, personally and not just a comment on the PR, "I found a critical issue and will be submitting a PR to fix it"? No offense intended but if they're fresh off your gigantic refactoring PRs they might not have actually understood that this was a defect that needed fixing in the short term. Yeah, that sounds like they think he's overreaching and by-passing the process. Maybe his fix wasn't the only way to fix things, and there was a discussion happening he was unaware about on how to do the fix. Some leads just need a heads-up, others want or need to make sure they also really understand the problem as well as the solution before letting work in.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:47
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vonnegutt posted:I've done a little mob programming. I would say it is a huge waste of time 98% of the time. However, the 2% it was useful was when we were setting up a new project/framework. It was faster to just have the team lead do the main setup, routing, etc on a projector so that all the devs understand at least a bare bones version of where everything goes. You end up with a bit less churn at the beginning.  The one team that does it, the lead is super into it and won't allow poo poo to happen without the mob. When speaking to the other members they don't like it  he also has a raging boner for "single piece flow/lean"Every other team that tried it declared it pointless.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:14
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Gounads posted:Agree, that's not reasonable. 8 hours would be about my limit for the entire interview process. I think 8 hours is totally fine. And this is an agency so they could easily come up with paid work that wouldn't necessitate giving me the keys to their kingdom to accomplish, either on-site or freelance, if they wanted to see my work. I ended up telling them to take a hike and got a response back that they were super disappointed and really liked me but they've had tons of people do this challenge. Either they're bullshitting or their entire development team is a bunch of loving marks, so gently caress em either way.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:30
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necrobobsledder posted:How are you supposed to submit fixes if not through a pull request? An e-mail attachment with a patch file? A herd of goats tattooed with the diff contents paraded through the office? I submit a ticket, and it will be prioritized in the backlog. Basically, they want to follow the rules for every thing we need to do. I must have overestimated its urgency or just plain didn't follow protocol, which is my own fault. csammis posted:Did you tell the reviewer or the rest of your team, personally and not just a comment on the PR, "I found a critical issue and will be submitting a PR to fix it"? No offense intended but if they're fresh off your gigantic refactoring PRs they might not have actually understood that this was a defect that needed fixing in the short term. This is after the other big PRs, yes. I suspect the issue was that I didn't properly explain the PR to them, since it was framed as "we currently have to rebuild docker containers to install new gems, so we need a way to cache and serve them" and I only mentioned "docker containers fail to run if you don't rebuild while switching branches" after a co-worker asked what this was for.  So I likely miscommunicated. Here's the text of the PR if it helps: quote:Original Problem I'm also in charge of testing the acceptance criteria for a different PR, and they were kind of condescending when recommending that I test the inverse of each criteria as well. Maybe I'm misinterpreting them, but I feel frustration here. I'm talking with them later today, so I'll bring up these concerns as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the typical goon social retardation on my part...
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Oct 6, 2016 14:49
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It sounds like a typical bureaucracy of technical people with terrible social skills who don't trust each other.
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Oct 6, 2016 19:29
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AskYourself posted:Wtf so you go prison if you say no ? If you need to go to the toilet or make a coffee or spend two minutes wrapping up then that's obviously fine, the point is you cannot defer peer review and must do it immediately. It works pretty well, and is quite well aligned to a one-piece-flow / kanban philosophy. revmoo posted:What do you guys think about "coding projects" in order to secure a job? I've done them once or twice in the past and ended up hating the actual job once I got hired and kind of swore off doing them again. I'm not happy at my current job so I've been interviewing. I've already done two levels of interviews with this potential company and they want me to do a coding challenge that is suspiciously complete. They want me to build an app: That is too much. At my place we have an exercise that is as small as possible while still being a somewhat interesting problem that we can derive some useful insight on how people code, how they research, etc. It's an optimisation problem with a trivial polynomial solution and a slightly more complex (but still straightforward) linearithmic solution with an appropriate data structure. It should take an hour tops and a succinct python solution fits on a single page of code. No way would I write a full web app that takes 8 hours. Pollyanna posted:Stuff about rejected PR In a place like this, what happens when a PR is rejected? Do you get concrete, actionable feedback on what to change, or is it vague? What happens if you disagree with the PR feedback? In a synchronous communication the developers would just talk face to face about it and agree what to do, but in a more passive asynchronous and impersonal process I can imagine it being much more difficult. return0 fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 19:53
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The other part that's really strange about that huge-rear end interview project is that following through on the entire project does not give you much more information about the candidate than if someone completed one or two of those tasks. There's a big gulf between small, toy problems and a full blown application that's nearly feature-complete and it should be obvious after someone's done an exercise whether they're capable of much more than that.
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Oct 6, 2016 20:10
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revmoo posted:What do you guys think about "coding projects" in order to secure a job? I've done them once or twice in the past and ended up hating the actual job once I got hired and kind of swore off doing them again. I'm not happy at my current job so I've been interviewing. I've already done two levels of interviews with this potential company and they want me to do a coding challenge that is suspiciously complete. They want me to build an app: I keep thinking about this am I'm wondering if there's a framework they use that would make that easy to the point of being trivial enough to throw together in an hour that you, I and the rest of the thread just don't know well enough.
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Oct 6, 2016 20:11
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Munkeymon posted:I keep thinking about this am I'm wondering if there's a framework they use that would make that easy to the point of being trivial enough to throw together in an hour that you, I and the rest of the thread just don't know well enough. Then that makes it a lovely exercise. It's like answering "Implement Quicksort" with "use List.sort()".
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Oct 6, 2016 20:39
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Skandranon posted:Then that makes it a lovely exercise. It's like answering "Implement Quicksort" with "use List.sort()". It's not if they're trying to filter out people who don't already know whatever framework they have in mind.
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Oct 6, 2016 20:43
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Coincidentally, I got an email that the CodeWars guys have spun their execution and analysis engine into http://qualified.io - which is a nifty idea to prevent this very confusion.
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Oct 6, 2016 21:25
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Between that, hackerrank, leetcode, codility, and dozens of others what's the differences between each of these anyway? I think I've struggled more with the runtime engines and editors on these sites more than the actual questions given to me so far, including one case where code compiled just fine for me locally using only standard libraries and standard compilers while the one online failed to even parse out.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:12
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Munkeymon posted:It's not if they're trying to filter out people who don't already know whatever framework they have in mind. They use cakephp lol
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Oct 7, 2016 03:47
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Pollyanna posted:I submit a ticket, and it will be prioritized in the backlog. Basically, they want to follow the rules for every thing we need to do. I must have overestimated its urgency or just plain didn't follow protocol, which is my own fault. To be honest a lot of what you're saying in this thread sounds like it could be resolved by just talking to people. (...and also chopping up your PR's into smaller manageable chunks for review). I will almost always prioritise small reviews over large ones, just because trying to keep all the context in your head for a large review takes so much mental effort., and you have to set aside a large chunk of time specifically for it.
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Oct 7, 2016 11:47
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Slash posted:To be honest a lot of what you're saying in this thread sounds like it could be resolved by just talking to people. I'd still probably have scheduled that time within like 2 weeks, not several months. Most places I've worked that claimed to do code reviews actually don't, or they're so rare that they're effectively useless. Not sure if not having them is worse than not pushing them through. 
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Oct 7, 2016 13:23
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Slash posted:could be resolved by just talking to people.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:05
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How do you guys treat documentation in your ~agile flow~? An extra story per feature? Treat it like a feature in itself?
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Oct 7, 2016 15:28
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pugnax posted:How do you guys treat documentation in your ~agile flow~? An extra story per feature? Treat it like a feature in itself? Part of the definition of done for each story is that it's documented, it passes a functional review, it's on a master branch, it has automated tests, it's passed a code review, etc...
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Oct 7, 2016 15:33
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Depends upon the culture in my experience. One place a definition of a "done" story meant documentation, tests, and the whole nine yards - pretty standard development lifecycle. At my last place it took forever to get approvals so that approach would mean entire sprints would go by with 0 story points and all of a sudden 200+ points show up in a sprint even though people are working and finishing their work diligently. So we had to create separate stories for approvals and put that into an "approval" epic that I presented at leadership meetings as topics of discussion (and routinely ignored). It became waterfall in the end with huge deploys to production with 8+ sprints worth of work showing up at once and management demanding more gating in the approval process presuming that it improves quality of work into production. Then again, this was a company all about Six Sigma, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how ineffective it is at development and innovation.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:00
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revmoo posted:I think 8 hours is totally fine. And this is an agency so they could easily come up with paid work that wouldn't necessitate giving me the keys to their kingdom to accomplish, either on-site or freelance, if they wanted to see my work.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:28
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