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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I didn't bump up to Hard until I got to the Spiral Pit, which is later in that LP. For the early part I was still on Normal, which is good because the party was badly underleveled. The main effects of difficulty are to greatly increase the penalties for being underleveled, so it wouldn't surprise me if fighting the Sliths immediately after the "tutorial dungeons" is actually impossible (in the sense that you can't deal enough damage to kill even one Slith Warrior before it kills you) on Hard/Torment. Fair enough; I stand corrected. One problem I have had in some of the SW games is staying on the path where you are continuously a good level for the content as it comes without veering of into something either trivial or for which you are totally unprepared.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:54
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JustJeff88 posted:Fair enough; I stand corrected. One problem I have had in some of the SW games is staying on the path where you are continuously a good level for the content as it comes without veering of into something either trivial or for which you are totally unprepared. That's the peril of how these games are put together. With so little gating in most of the titles, you can miss content and only find it once it's a complete cakewalk, or you can stumble into something quite nasty far too soon. It can also do a real number on narrative pacing. Geneforge 1 is a pretty good example of that, especially if you try to do every area. The Avadon games don't have these issues as such, since the game world is nowhere near as open as the worlds in the Geneforge or Avernum/Exile series.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:01
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Is there any point to not loading up a party with two priests types and two mage types or some variation of that in Avernum 2? Melee and archery/thrown seem like hot garbage compared to spells at the low levels I'm at also am I missing anything critical by skipping Avernum 1? I played through a bit of it then found out there was a 2 and pretty much immediately dropped it Robo Reagan fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 07:39
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Robo Reagan posted:Is there any point to not loading up a party with two priests types and two mage types or some variation of that in Avernum 2? Melee and archery/thrown seem like hot garbage compared to spells at the low levels I'm at Sadly, not really. Magic remains the best way to kill lots of enemies fast, and the vast majority of your fights are largely against lots of enemies - and the way the cloak spells work, you actually get rewarded for homogenous parties. Also, you're missing out on a good game, if that matters.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:01
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I hate good games and having fun
Robo Reagan fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 08:02
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There's one specific fight in the new Avernum 2 where you need to use a sword for plot reasons, but even then you only need to hit with it once so even if you don't have a melee fighter it just means a few turns of dicking around until you get a lucky hit in.
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Jul 28, 2017 10:43
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Avernum 1 and 2 are beatable easily with any build that isn't no magic. I think the most important thing is that all of your characters have some casting ability, even if they're focused warriors, because otherwise you just give up a huge pool of spell points and utility. I had a focused polearm warrior and generalized melee/tool use guy and I gave them both minors in mage and priest spells for haste, heal, war blessing, shield, etc. and that made them much more valuable.
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Jul 28, 2017 11:55
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There's zero reason to not give your nonmagical characters at least 1 rank in Priest Spells, so they can patch everyone up after fights. Having at least two casters able to cast whatever the "cure mental status ailments" spell is is also a good idea, because mental statuses are a pain in the rear end. A lot of priest spells don't scale with INT meaningfully, and you can cast them even when wearing heavy armor, so they're definitely the way to go if you want to splash some magic into a combat build. Regarding going with an all-caster party, I do think it's worth having at least one dedicated tank character. It's either that, or you have at least one caster constantly on healing duty, right? At least in Avernum 1, a blink tank (max DEX/gymnastics) can be shockingly effective once you get out of the early game, being able to dodge almost everything, including attack spells. That does mean investing heavily into archery, though. Archery isn't exactly great, but it's not a wasted skill (especially compared to Throwing). Avernum 1 at least is trivially winnable on Hard with a fighter/archer/mage/priest combo, with all four PCs having basically zero cross-training. You don't have to build the maximum-face-crushing party to enjoy the game.
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Jul 28, 2017 17:07
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Aldous is my boy and I won't hear any of this all mage nonsense.
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Jul 28, 2017 17:11
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Melee and archery are interesting and nice to have, but even they should have a few levels in Priest spells. With the way that spell points scale with level and the mechanics of a lot of early spells (which work well enough without INT) it's super easy to just splash in a few levels of Priest for heal/cure purposes and a couple basic buffs. Basically, a stereotypical RPG Paladin - you're a big armor/weapon dude with some magic for backup and versatility, not a primary caster. That said, if you don't like going to town, there's definitely an argument for two good physical fighters because they basically endure forever, whereas casters have to worry about running dry. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 17:19
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Basically, there's no reason to actually use non-magical characters outside of that one sword. Spells do more damage, do it to groups, is more easily unlocked, can do more then just damage, has nova capabilities, and doesn't require large amounts of equipment. There's only so many good weapons - you'll run out of those long before you run out of spells. EDIT: Note that Avernum 2 is actually worse about the disparity. At least in Avernum 1 you had a few items that could give serious boosts to melee damage, and dual wielding could get you wizardly damage, whereas spellcasters had to contend with the high cost of spells. Those items are gone, dual wielding was nerfed, gold is ubiquitous. Seriously: make spellcasters. EDIT 2: I'm not saying you NEED to be all spellcasters. I am saying that spellcasters are straight up better then warriors 100% all the time in Avernum 2. It was only 75% of the time in Avernum 1. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jul 29, 2017 |
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Jul 29, 2017 00:23
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ProfessorCirno posted:EDIT 2: I'm not saying you NEED to be all spellcasters. I am saying that spellcasters are straight up better then warriors 100% all the time in Avernum 2. It was only 75% of the time in Avernum 1. Your party of 100% spellcasters is going to have a bitch of a time against Runewarded enemies and (IIRC) Doomguards. You want some capability to deal physical damage. Plus as noted by MagusOfStars, if your only damage source is magic, you're going to be running back to town all the time; there aren't enough energy potions in the game to fuel a 100% spell-based offense especially through the longer dungeons.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:35
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I really hope casters dominating gets addressed in A3, though I doubt it. In Exile 3 casters were mandatory for the Troglodytes/Giants. At the very least physical could use some love, I'm going after the 5 artifacts and I will be using them. Removing the exp penalty from Sliths/Nephils would be nice too. There's really no reason at all to pick them aside from role-playing. Humans are just too good.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:41
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Your party of 100% spellcasters is going to have a bitch of a time against Runewarded enemies and (IIRC) Doomguards. You want some capability to deal physical damage. Plus as noted by MagusOfStars, if your only damage source is magic, you're going to be running back to town all the time; there aren't enough energy potions in the game to fuel a 100% spell-based offense especially through the longer dungeons. Spells can deal physical damage, running back to town is easy, fast, and you have to do it less and less the more magic you have. That first one's a real big one, too, incidentally. Avernum 2 has basically no enemies that are straight up immune to magic. You have enemies who are immune to damage types, except spells can cover ALL DAMAGE TYPES, whereas melee can only cover, well, one. And enemy resistances tend to reduce damage waaaaay less then armor does.
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Jul 29, 2017 02:24
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ProfessorCirno posted:Spells can deal physical damage, running back to town is easy, fast, and you have to do it less and less the more magic you have. Wait, what spell deals physical damage? There's fire, cold, lightning, and pure magic damage, but I don't recall any spells that deal physical damage. Unless you count putting a thorns status on your characters so that the enemy gets hurt when they attack you. Which you shouldn't, that status is solely there to dick over your fighters. Speaking of, one thing that doesn't help fighters in these games is that Vogel loves to give his bosses effects that kick in when they're hit in melee. Really nasty ones, too.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:01
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Wait, what spell deals physical damage? There's fire, cold, lightning, and pure magic damage, but I don't recall any spells that deal physical damage. Unless you count putting a thorns status on your characters so that the enemy gets hurt when they attack you. Which you shouldn't, that status is solely there to dick over your fighters. Move Mountains. .....Also, are we talking about the same Avernum? How many runewarded enemies even ARE there in 2? I know there's a bunch on 1. Like, again, I'm not saying this is the only way to play. You can totally make almost any kind of party and still win in standard difficulty. But for the most bang for your buck? Spellcasters. Human ones. With enough points in weapon skills to get Adrenaline Rush and to get 10+2 in hardiness.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:00
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ProfessorCirno posted:Move Mountains. Huh, I didn't remember Move Mountains. And yeah, my memory of 2 is pretty hazy at this point; I [re]played 1 most recently. I'm not remotely trying to claim that melee is as good as magic, but I do think the game is more fun when you have a varied party. But to each their own.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:03
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 I like to run the standard fighter/mage/priest/archer party.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:05
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Most efficient isn't the same as most fun, after all! I just hope there's better benefits to not being a spellcaster in Avernum 3's remake, especially since that's the game with the Anama. Gimmie swole as gently caress swordsmen that can literally cut down barriers - gently caress "dispel."
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Jul 29, 2017 04:51
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ProfessorCirno posted:Most efficient isn't the same as most fun, after all!
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Jul 29, 2017 05:14
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Zereth posted:Couldn't you be a Priest in the Anama just fine? Yeah, but you're completely barred from Mage spells. You can still use mage spells indirectly through stuff like dispel barrier crystals and wands. Anama-only puts a real interesting twist on the game and in Exile 3 you could get Divine Thud (the priestly equivalent to dropping a nuke) very early if you dumped all your stats into priest spells.
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Jul 29, 2017 05:23
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Most spiderweb games seem to make magic OP. That's one of the things I liked about avadon, is that melee and physical damage in general is useful along with magic.
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Jul 29, 2017 05:56
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The Anama are gonna have serious problems if Vogel doesn't mix things up; Piercing Crystals (their only option for breaking barriers) in 1 and 2 could only destroy level-1 barriers, and all the good stuff as well as mainline quests require being able to break level-2 barriers.
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Jul 29, 2017 05:58
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Now that I can play the game without setting up a virtual WinXP machine, I'm seriously thinking about having a go at Exile 1 for the first time in about 20 years. Like a lot of RPGs, though, pure melee classes in those games tend to be rather dull because they basically do sod all apart from hit things; at least the reremakes have combat disciplines even if the only one worth a toss is Adrenaline Rush. In any event, I'd like to try a party of six wherein every character has some casting skill, but I don't want to gimp my party for the late game. Any suggestions on builds? berryjon's LPs gave me a good idea for a warrior priest(ess) like Art and a tough 2-handed tank like Sass who has a bit of priestly magic on top of being a beats in melee; any other suggestions? Being capable at magery in those games basically means focusing on not much else, though, so I will probably have one dedicated "mage" and a thaumaturge like Peregrine who is useless in a physical fight but will eventually know every spell in the game. I may have to compromise and have one non-caster who specialises in lore, lock-picking and trap-springing, but I'm open to suggestions. Edit: I know this may seem odd, but I've played a lot of Might & Magic 3, 4&5 and Swords of Xeen and I always play those games with all casters/hybrids as well. I just find classes that due nothing but hit things boring, even if they are very good indeed at hitting things. JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Aug 29, 2017 |
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Aug 29, 2017 03:42
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Just spread the mage lore points around the whole party, you never need more than like 3-4 points each. My standard exile party is three warriors, one mage, one priest and one priest/mage, but all the casters end up as priestmage combos and the fighters end up with some priest spells. Really fighters need more stats than casters because they need good strength, dex, weapon skill and assassination + some defence, instead of just int, mage skill and mp. You can gimmick the system a bit by taking all the starting points out of hp as long as you have a decent (4 or higher) strength score since hp growth on leveling up is based on strength. You also get mp points for each starting skill of mage/priest spells (at least in 3, someone will have to confirm for 1 and 2) so you can skimp on mp skill at the start too. Casters don't need any weapon skill points and you can neglect dex as well.
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Aug 29, 2017 23:16
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The main thing is that mage characters can't have more than 1 encumbrance without being unable to reliably cast spells, even if you invest in Defense. That means that the best armor they can wear is studded armor or, in Exile 3, mithril chain armor. And that means that if you want a mage character able to participate in melee, you'd better dose 'em to the gills with blessings, because they'll have crap defenses otherwise. On the flipside, there's no reason to not make a mage-fighter dual-wield, since they can't use shields anyway.  But if you want a character that can both cast and participate in melee, they'll benefit pretty heavily from all three of STR/DEX/INT, which is a hefty investment to make in a character. Of those, DEX is the least important as it just governs their hit rate in melee, but it's still a pretty substantial effect. You'll absolutely want to start them off with just the base 6 HP and with as many Mage/Priest Spells as you think you can conveniently use, for the 3SP/rank bonus. The last time I played through Exile 3 was with a solo character, and their starting skill spread was basically "all the spell ranks I can afford, all the STR/SP I can afford, 4 INT, the rest will sort itself out with time."
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Aug 30, 2017 00:16
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Though Encumbrance doesn't matter at all for priest spells, which is why you can go hog wild with fighters speccing into priests later on.
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Aug 30, 2017 00:38
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The main thing is that mage characters can't have more than 1 encumbrance without being unable to reliably cast spells, even if you invest in Defense. That means that the best armor they can wear is studded armor or, in Exile 3, mithril chain armor. And that means that if you want a mage character able to participate in melee, you'd better dose 'em to the gills with blessings, because they'll have crap defenses otherwise. The encumbrance mechanics in Exile are slightly more complicated than that: items with 1 encumbrance are affected less by the Defense skill's encumbrance reduction effect than items with 2 encumbrance or more, so you can guarantee successful spellcasting with one 2-encumbrance item if you have at least 10 Defense, but you can't ever guarantee successful spellcasting with two 1-encumbrance items. 10 Defense is a pretty significant investment that you probably won't get around to until the mid/late game, though.
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Aug 30, 2017 03:02
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These games seem awesome but hard to get into. I've started with Avernum as My first Spiderweb game. Is this a good choice if I like poo poo like Fallout and the Infinity Engine games?
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Aug 30, 2017 12:26
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chaosapiant posted:These games seem awesome but hard to get into. I've started with Avernum as My first Spiderweb game. Is this a good choice if I like poo poo like Fallout and the Infinity Engine games? It's a good starting game, definitely less party turn micromanagement than in the Infinity Engine games. Hope you enjoy it.
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Aug 30, 2017 13:13
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https://twitter.com/spiderwebsoft/status/905564402266521600
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Sep 7, 2017 04:01
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FINALLY. Does this mean Avernum 3 is close to ready?
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Sep 7, 2017 04:03
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I hope that this means Ruined World and not the new IP that he has mentioned before. I'm really looking forward to RW and, while I don't resent him making a new title, I want Exile 3: Take 3 first.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:05
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i want a sci fi game.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:06
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It's gonna be the new IP, calling it now. And, sadly, I suspect it's not going to be sci-fi, because I think Vogel believes that fantasy has a broader audience. Mass Effect notwithstanding, he may well be right.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:26
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I wouldn't mind another fantasy setting with sci fi themes like geneforge, its a really cool combo that not many things do.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:29
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Clever Spambot posted:I wouldn't mind another fantasy setting with sci fi themes like geneforge, its a really cool combo that not many things do.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:32
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i just want to shoot dudes with a laser gun 
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Sep 7, 2017 04:34
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It's gonna be the new IP, calling it now. And, sadly, I suspect it's not going to be sci-fi, because I think Vogel believes that fantasy has a broader audience. And just as importantly, he'd need to commission a lot of new art assets.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:56
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Roobanguy posted:i just want to shoot dudes with a laser gun
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