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Paul MaudDib posted:Nobody in the motherboard business are perennial fuckups to quite the extent that, say, Seagate are in the HDD business. i remember running two 1.5tb seagates in RAID0 at one point for a few months then found out the hard way that they had a firmware bug where they would randomly decide to drop out of RAID arrays. no irreplaceable data on them but still hosed beyond any attempt at recovery. given my established attitude to data integrity at that point i just decided to use software raid0 instead. incredibly surprised that they didn't experience some kind of hardware failure before i went all-ssd a few years later Craptacular! posted:My machine is still Z77/Ivy, and my DVR is now on some Haswell chip that I can't remember. But my understanding is that modifying DSDTs and flashing a custom BIOS is no longer required on the latest Intel lines. Tonymac's hardware lists used to only recommend Gigabyte simply to not have to guide users through these procedures but now recommends all kinds of brands. it is a bit of a crapshoot tbf. i managed to get osx working on my asrock Z77 board suspiciously painlessly but couldn't even get to the installer on a z170 gigabyte. might be a bit better now the skylake (et al) support has matured a bit tho Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Sep 3, 2017 01:57
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Generic Monk posted:i remember running two 1.5tb seagates in RAID0 at one point for a few months then found out the hard way that they had a firmware bug where they would randomly decide to drop out of RAID arrays. no irreplaceable data on them but still hosed beyond any attempt at recovery. given my established attitude to data integrity at that point i just decided to use software raid0 instead. incredibly surprised that they didn't experience some kind of hardware failure before i went all-ssd a few years later Yup, the entire 7200.11 platform was terrible. After getting hosed on a 750 GB and then a 1.5 TB and then a 3 TB I had enough and I haven't had another premature failure since, across about 2 dozen drives (WD and Toshiba). People say "oh it's just one specific model that sucks" but it was actually more like several entire series of models across a span of 5 years. On the other hand I have a Seagate 250 GB laptop HDD that just turned 10 years old, so... Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Sep 3, 2017 02:35
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I just don't use traditional hard drives any more. I've been 100% certified spinning disk free since 2014.
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Sep 3, 2017 06:46
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The Lord Bude posted:I just don't use traditional hard drives any more. I've been 100% certified spinning disk free since 2014. Not even in a NAS? If you don't have one, you should. Everyone should have a NAS.
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Sep 3, 2017 09:30
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NewFatMike posted:Not even in a NAS? Yeah, they're honestly preferable to keeping a spinner in a case, and come with the bonus of having your own ~cloud~. I've got a QNAP TS-251 with a single 8TB WD Red in it, with a 4TB External Seagate and an 8TB external WD attached to it. When the warranty on the external WD runs out, I'll shuck it out of its enclosure and RAID 0 the drives. As it stands, though - I like having the ability to 'mirror' the drives manually via manual backups.
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Sep 3, 2017 09:36
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NewFatMike posted:Not even in a NAS? What do I need a NAS for? I have a 1TB SSD, and any documents invariably get saved to onedrive or iCloud Drive so that I can access them from my devices. My music is all handled through Apple Music, and my movies are all either on physical media or handled through iTunes.
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Sep 3, 2017 10:15
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The Lord Bude posted:What do I need a NAS for? Same on SSDs, 1TB in the laptop and 2TB in the desktop. I know I'm kind of an odd use case since I do 3D modeling, so that doesn't play quite as nicely with iCloud/GDrive and all that, but it keeps things immediately and automatically mirrored between my laptop and desktop. When I reorganize my folders and everything, it mirrors the change on both. Don't even need to be on network, either. I'm in China and it's all still happening smoothly. If I want to watch a movie, I can leave it on the NAS saving space on my other devices for things like video games and stream it from there, even still in China. No physical media required It's OS agnostic, so I can access everything on phones, tablets, Chromebooks, macOS, Linux machines, whatever. If I get a new laptop, I install the Synology program and it all syncs back up to the same directories they were in before. I can add multiple users, use it as an FTP server, and if something catastrophic happens to my laptop while I'm out here, I'll spend an afternoon getting a new device and all my mission critical stuff can be downloaded regardless of the Great Firewall. Immediate, off-site, redundancy and synchronization is a godsend. Work at the office? Cool. Work from home? Files are already there and I can use my desktop. Need to put something on someone's computer? Just log in through the web interface. It's seriously the best $200 I have spent on computing hardware in my entire life. I can encrypt everything, preserve photographs, and I don't have to pay a subscription fee. It's incredibly convenient, grants a lot of peace of mind, and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
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Sep 3, 2017 14:44
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 at the thought of having irreplaceable family photos stored only in Google or Amazon's cloud services.
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Sep 3, 2017 16:07
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WhyteRyce posted:
Yeah, I'm so paranoid about losing my wife and I's various photos and videos (wedding, baby, etc) plus other files, that I have them backed up to two different cloud services (one of which is free), a external WD Red I keep at work, a Airport Time Capsule at home, and both my gaming PC, my Mac mini, and our rMBP. Every 1-2 weeks I simple create a "backup folder" on a portable external HD and go around replacing the old folder with the current/new one.
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Sep 3, 2017 16:36
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BIG HEADLINE posted:When the warranty on the external WD runs out, I'll shuck it out of its enclosure and RAID 0 the drives. As it stands, though - I like having the ability to 'mirror' the drives manually via manual backups. Do you mean RAID 1? Or do you actually have a use for 16TB of fast but unreliable storage?
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Sep 3, 2017 16:54
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WhyteRyce posted:
The n-way sync + backup is what really seals it. You don't have to adjust workflow regardless of the platform, which rules. The whole discussion got me playing with more features on my NAS on the other side of the lovely planet. Technology, especially NASes, rule. It's only a matter of time before I have a full rack mount.
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Sep 3, 2017 16:54
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NewFatMike posted:The n-way sync + backup is what really seals it. You don't have to adjust workflow regardless of the platform, which rules. Would you happen to have a link to a guide or outline of your type of setup somewhere? It sounds pretty interesting and I might try to build something similar.
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Sep 3, 2017 17:16
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isndl posted:Would you happen to have a link to a guide or outline of your type of setup somewhere? It sounds pretty interesting and I might try to build something similar. It's pretty simple once you get used to the UI. This is my model: https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/DS216+II Setup is pretty simple, it should guide you through everything to get it up and running. For n-way sync and backup, Cloud Station Drive is what you want (NOT Cloud Station Backup). You just download the application from the Synology website to your main device and from the package center into the NAS. Tell it where/what you want synchronized and backed up (you don't have to use the Cloud Station folder it'll try to set up for you, I just used an existing directory on my D: drive and choose a few others on my C: drive, like "Documents" and "Pictures"). It'll spend a few minutes getting everything synchronized on that one device to the NAS. All you have to do on any subsequent device is download Cloud Station Drive and tell it the destination folders for everything. You can also Google essentially any question you have and you'll find something in pretty simple terms. I'm almost looking forward to getting a new laptop next year just so I can run the process. Went fabulously on my desktop.
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Sep 3, 2017 17:34
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Do you mean RAID 1? Or do you actually have a use for 16TB of fast but unreliable storage? Yes, I meant mirroring. It was a late post.
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Sep 3, 2017 18:26
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WhyteRyce posted:
Here's my setup: JPG + RAW on main server Daily backup of all files to RAID-1 NAS JPGs backed up to Google Photos for easy viewing RAWs backed up to Amazon Drive because they're insane and offer free storage of RAW files with no limits, even with their free tier as long as you have Prime I've also been fooling around with using Cryptomator to backup important documents to Dropbox (or whatever Cloud service you want). That works really really well. It used to be that my RAW files were on my NAS only, meaning I'd need to grab that on the way out in case of emergency. Now I don't need to grab anything. And I don't pay a dime for any of the cloud services to accomplish all this.
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Sep 3, 2017 18:54
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My Dad has some kind of addon for his NAS now that acts as an HDD dock. I've never bothered to research the thing, but he basically inserts a drive and then backup his photos to it with some script or something. The point is the same as yours, a lot less to carry out in case of a fire. Photo storage is not something I've bothered to research in the nine years or so since I stopped carrying a compact. These days the only camera I have is my iPhone which I just use for disposable, social media style shots; and I haven't been able to take a vacation in six years so I don't see much need to save anything.
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Sep 3, 2017 19:51
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Yeah, for me it's a consideration because I'm a pretty serious hobbyist. About 170gb of RAWs from the past decade. That's not the largest collection of files (only about ~7000 photos or so), but it still took 4 days of uploading to get it into the cloud. Before Amazon Drive I was too much of a cheapass to use something like Crashplan or to get a Dropbox Plus account.
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Sep 3, 2017 20:11
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bobfather posted:Here's my setup: It's not the cost, I already pay Backblaze for unlimited cloud storage. I don't want sole access to my family photos at the mercy of Google or Amazon customer TOS or customer support. What if Amazon thinks I'm a troublesome customer because I complain a lot about bad shopping experiences. What if my Google account gets suspended for reasons I don't know and I have to deal with their famed customer support. I used Google Photos all the time for convenience but I'm not putting all my eggs in that bucket.
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Sep 3, 2017 22:44
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But he said he has a NAS and only would need to rely on the cloud if it was lost? The chance you fall into some nightmare of T&Cs you didn't read from your cloud service at the same time your house burns down or is burglarized is incredibly small. If it happens, you might as well assume the universe hates you.
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Sep 3, 2017 22:54
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Craptacular! posted:But he said he has a NAS and only would need to rely on the cloud if it was lost? No there is nothing wrong with Cloud services, I just wouldn't rely entirely on them for my data. And that's why spinning rust or a NAS still has it's place even with big SSDs WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Sep 3, 2017 23:10
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I guess I just don't have a whole lot of data to worry about. My Important documents that would pose an actual annoyance if I lost them total maybe 10mb; they live on the cloud. My iphone and ipad automatically upload every photo I take to the cloud, and then they automagically appear in my photos on my PC as well; so I don't need to worry about those. I don't rip my CDs anymore - I don't even know where half of them are to be honest, since I just use apple music for everything now. All my movies are either on actual DVDs (which I'm progressively disposing of) or I watch stuff on netflix, or I buy it on itunes - I'd never bother backing up anything that can just be redownloaded. The only thing left is game saves and installs, which I certainly can't be hosed about. Worst case scenario I wait 20 minutes for steam to redownload something.
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Sep 4, 2017 05:15
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It seems like your use case is pretty well covered. I was being pretty broad when I said "everyone should have a NAS" but nothing beats it when you're happy with what you've got.
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Sep 4, 2017 06:15
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Cautionary tale with the NAS: I had an Infrant (now netgear) ReadyNAS 4 bay and used their x-raid setup which was like RAID-5, but allowed auto re-expanding of drives if you wanted to upgrade. What happened was after about 4-5 years the device wouldn't boot anymore and then all the drive data was unusable because I couldn't plug it into a pc, had to be in one of the same enclosures. They were EOL'd at that point so it would have been real hard to find a new one. Thankfully all my vital data was backed up elsewhere (in several locations) but it's a good cautionary tale anyway I figure. The system was old but it could have died sooner and while the drives had redundancy the system using a proprietary raid stack didn't. Still debating between getting a replacement from qnap or synology or perhaps building my own.. and running only modes where I could recover the data with a regular mobo and sata/pwr cables 
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Sep 4, 2017 06:27
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They weren't just 3.5" drives in a weird bracket? Or mismatched IDE/SATA? A proprietary hard drive sounds so... Bizarre.
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Sep 4, 2017 06:43
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NewFatMike posted:They weren't just 3.5" drives in a weird bracket? Or mismatched IDE/SATA? A proprietary hard drive sounds so... Bizarre. No they were regular 3.5" disks, just the RAID option meant it was their own weird thing and short of putting it in another readynas compatible enclosure all I could do would be format the hdds for use in something else, the data was pretty much unrecoverable (confirmed by their support staff). It was more an annoyance than anything else for me but I could imagine some small companies getting turbofucked by that.
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Sep 4, 2017 06:53
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priznat posted:Still debating between getting a replacement from qnap or synology or perhaps building my own.. and running only modes where I could recover the data with a regular mobo and sata/pwr cables Dell's got a deal for one of their Xeon E3-1225 T30s for $329, but honestly, as nice as they are, I can imagine pouring a ton of cash into them over time, to the point where they can become a secondary PC unto themselves as *well* as a NAS. I'm pretty damned happy with my TS-231P, even though no aspect of it is upgradable, *and* I'm coming from a TS-212E that kind of just decided to stop working after five years.
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Sep 4, 2017 08:16
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priznat posted:No they were regular 3.5" disks, just the RAID option meant it was their own weird thing and short of putting it in another readynas compatible enclosure all I could do would be format the hdds for use in something else, the data was pretty much unrecoverable (confirmed by their support staff). Oh I see. Yeah, that's incredibly weak. I'll have to make sure I have everything in RAID 0 when I drop another disk in mine.
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Sep 4, 2017 08:17
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NewFatMike posted:Oh I see. Yeah, that's incredibly weak. I'll have to make sure I have everything in RAID 0 when I drop another disk in mine. Please don't RAID 0 your backup disks.
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Sep 4, 2017 08:22
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Rexxed posted:Please don't RAID 0 your backup disks. You are right, I'm an impossible dingus.
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Sep 4, 2017 08:42
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Dell's got a deal for one of their Xeon E3-1225 T30s for $329, but honestly, as nice as they are, I can imagine pouring a ton of cash into them over time, to the point where they can become a secondary PC unto themselves as *well* as a NAS. I'm pretty damned happy with my TS-231P, even though no aspect of it is upgradable, *and* I'm coming from a TS-212E that kind of just decided to stop working after five years. There's a continuum in both capabilities (capacity, performance, etc) between basic prebuilt appliances, not-poo poo prebuilt appliances, microservers, and luxury microservers. At the low-end you've got ARM and MIPS poo poo, at the high-end you've got platforms like X99/TR with really nice lane counts, memory capacity, and fantastic single-threaded perf. Once you determine that you need something more than a TS-231P the incremental purchase from "what I need" to "something that can be expanded" isn't that much. Aiming at a $500 price point instead of a $300 price point gets you way more for your money. If you're willing to build, for $200-300 I'd be aiming at an off-lease Thinkserver or used/refurb CAD workstation (I own+like the Z400/Z420, the Z420 gets you Sandy Bridge/PCIe 3.0/40 lanes). Once you're talking about more than $500 barebones I'd be looking at X99. Prebuilt systems are always quite expensive for what you get. For the price of a basic Synology DS1817+ with 2 GB of non-ECC you can build a nice X99 in the same volume with 32 GB of ECC and 40 lanes of future expandability. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Sep 4, 2017 |
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Sep 4, 2017 08:58
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T20/T30 are awesome. Mine runs a ton of stuff (NAS, PVR, 8 docker containers, 4 VMs, one of them Windows 10 with a undervolted 1070 for steam remote streaming) at 34W idle. That's less than a 5-bay Synology. I wouldn't mind a few extra cores but haven't found anything comparable with ECC support and at that power idle consumption.
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Sep 4, 2017 09:29
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Don't be afraid to go used. I picked up a Lenovo S30 from EBay recently with an E5-2650v2 (8c16t) with 48gb of ECC for $380 after discounts. Throw in some $35 3gb HGST Enterprise drives from server pulls, load ESXi onto a thumb drive or SD card, pass through the internal SATA and run FreeNAS with raidz2. Then share some of that storage back to ESXi for a data store. Total cost would be less than $550 for a monster NAS + virtualization platform.
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Sep 4, 2017 10:45
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If you are at all concerned about idle power consumption, an LGA1151 platform is definitely the way to go though. Skylake idles way lower than X99.
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Sep 4, 2017 10:53
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quote:Just when we thought that Intel was gearing up for lower NUC TDP, Chipzilla might try to reinvent the NUC as a legit desktop replacement with powerful 28W chips. We're hearing that three "Coffee Lake U" models are in the works for Q2 2018. 
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Sep 5, 2017 17:44
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Its only backup if its your only copy.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:45
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Apparently not even the 12-18 core Skylake-X chips have soldered heatspreaders, despite the massive die size
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Sep 5, 2017 19:20
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repiv posted:Apparently not even the 12-18 core Skylake-X chips have soldered heatspreaders, despite the massive die size There was some article i read that put that as basically *the* reason intel is using TIM. Something to do with differences in thermal expansion coefficients for the different layers of a soldering job leading to delamination/micro cracks in the solder vs not really having that issue with TIM. I've no idea if that theory is just bs or not though. And you're still left with the fact that they are using TIM on their small dies too.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:38
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Paul MaudDib posted:Additionally, the popular Skull Canyon gaming NUC is finally getting an eDRAM-laden sequel. Motherfucking bring it to desktop chips 6c+ Kaby+ IPC Bigass cache
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Sep 5, 2017 21:08
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inkwell posted:There was some article i read that put that as basically *the* reason intel is using TIM. Something to do with differences in thermal expansion coefficients for the different layers of a soldering job leading to delamination/micro cracks in the solder vs not really having that issue with TIM. I've no idea if that theory is just bs or not though. And you're still left with the fact that they are using TIM on their small dies too. This article? https://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/ quote:Micro cracks occur after about 200 to 300 thermal cycles. A thermal cycle is performed by going from -55 °C to 125 °C while each temperature is hold for 15 minutes. I too operate a super computer in the arctic, that I shut down every night before I open the window and go to bed. I need this.
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Sep 5, 2017 22:53
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Eyochigan posted:This article? https://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/ hey guys we did testing at a thermal cycle range and rate thats completely outside what your CPU would actually ever see such as 125c which your cpu would would shutdown your PC before allowing itself to sit at that for loving 15mins and god drat if that isnt the biggest load of horseshit they try to justify cutting corners to improve margins I have ever heard. your average cpu is going to be operating in the temp range of 16c-90c assuming you have the poo poo stock intel cooler on also not being thermally cycled from that range ether more like 25c-90c at the most, and as someone who does material testing for a living trying to make this excuse pisses me off so much. its like testing your car engine by red lining it and holding it and back to idle over and over and going "welp guess your motor really isnt that good for day to day driving" its completely outside the range of the normal use case
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