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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:I don't think anything will improve very much if you don't increase funding. Which means increased taxes. Well just like military spending, all the poo poo is going to go to contractors and big, sexy purchases. Improved training? An appreciable increase in benefits paired with a rigorous hiring process to get non-shitheads hired? Snooze. Let's just cut all the poo poo to the bone because we need to keep this M113 gassed up in case those people start getting out of hand.
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Sep 20, 2017 01:57
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Smiling Jack posted:He's actually a professor but yeah he gets a bit sloppy on his blog. That makes his slop even worse though 
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Sep 20, 2017 02:00
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Dead Reckoning posted:Right, but the fact that it's theoretically possible doesn't mean that it will necessarily solve the problem of "police shootin' folks what didn't need to get shot." IMO, any set of nation wide standards would have to be so vague and general as to be mostly indistinguishable from the way we do business now. The most likely result would be an unfunded mandate for cops to sit through annual sexual assault/trafficking in persons/use of force/etc. training. ADLS CBTs for everyone! Raise the legal expectation of conduct and then let departments sort out the specifics. Hopefully the extra requirements will highlight the need for better trained officers and budgets will increase. If not then maybe we just have to deal with police assuming a smaller, more specific role in our society
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Sep 20, 2017 02:02
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Dead Reckoning posted:Police aren't the military. Like, I don't think you want the LAPD doing high risk warrant service by leveling the suspect's building with an air strike. You're right, they aren't the military. And they aren't fighting an armed force. Why are they shooting unarmed motorists/college students and getting away with it.
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Sep 20, 2017 02:16
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mlmp08 posted:That makes his slop even worse though Seems like what an early draft of something starts out as. My 1st drafts are just brain dumps that are way long and overly explained then cut down to a real paper / article. If I ran a blog it would probably go more like that.
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Sep 20, 2017 02:20
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BadOptics posted:The police are currently the defenders of capital. They will need to be replace with men and women dedicated to the ideals of the proletarian revolutionary vanguard. bird cooch posted:As a requirement. The public is obviously unhappy with the self-auditing. mlmp08 posted:I guess that one. I dunno. I'm just not a fan of the "can't can't can't improve" crowd who doesn't bring solutions. Call it my military indoctrination brain-damage. That said, the "killed by police" phenomenon is the result of disparate causes contributing to similar results. If we're talking specifically about mentally disturbed and suicidal individuals, I think it would be a good idea to fund crisis intervention training for more officers. I also think it would be a good idea to have on call social workers that the police could bring with them to mental health/welfare/DV calls. Problem is, when the person having a mental crisis or DV situation is armed, or reported to be armed, the social workers won't come in until the scene is safe, so you're still going to have the problem of the police being the first point of contact for armed, distraught people who may decide to provoke the police into killing them. Kawasaki Nun posted:Raise the legal expectation of conduct and then let departments sort out the specifics.
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Sep 20, 2017 02:20
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Dead Reckoning posted:That said, the "killed by police" phenomenon is the result of disparate causes contributing to similar results. If we're talking specifically about mentally disturbed and suicidal individuals, I think it would be a good idea to fund crisis intervention training for more officers. I also think it would be a good idea to have on call social workers that the police could bring with them to mental health/welfare/DV calls. Problem is, when the person having a mental crisis or DV situation is armed, or reported to be armed, the social workers won't come in until the scene is safe, so you're still going to have the problem of the police being the first point of contact for armed, distraught people who may decide to provoke the police into killing them. Trap Sprung https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-cop-charged-manslaughter-shooting-autistic-man-s-unarmed-therapist-n745716 quote:Florida Cop Charged With Attempted Manslaughter in Shooting of Autistic Man’s Unarmed Therapist Now, I acknowledge that it's a cherry-picked example, but it is a clear sign of a problem. Cops are less lethal now than they've ever been, probably. But that is, to me, less of a cause of celebration and more of an acknowledgment of how jacked up poo poo was back in the day. The same can be said for the military and its tactics.
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Sep 20, 2017 02:27
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BadOptics fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 02:29
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drat that tanker truck does look like a pistol from 120 ft. Better shoot the wrong guy 3 times.
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Sep 20, 2017 02:37
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maria is the 10th strongest storm ever recorded in the atlantic god drat
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Sep 20, 2017 02:44
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:maria is the 10th strongest storm ever recorded in the atlantic Two top tens in one season!
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Sep 20, 2017 02:45
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:maria is the 10th strongest storm ever recorded in the atlantic  My family is expecting the island to be out of power for a couple of months after this.
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Sep 20, 2017 02:47
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Just found out my cousin and his family (his 3 kids are my godchildren) are in the Dominican Republic and the airport just closed (they were supposed to fly out tomorrow). I'm hoping this one fucks off peacefully into the Atlantic 
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Sep 20, 2017 03:02
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https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/910250240476942336
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Sep 20, 2017 03:03
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Sep 20, 2017 03:07
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RE: police brutality What solution leads us to things like CON AIR and THE ROCK? Can we maybe come up with a solution that solves excessive police violence AND the "knife v. bat" argument?
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Sep 20, 2017 03:12
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Shim please let me start probating for this poo poo
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Sep 20, 2017 03:21
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Dead Reckoning posted:That said, the "killed by police" phenomenon is the result of disparate causes contributing to similar results. If we're talking specifically about mentally disturbed and suicidal individuals, I think it would be a good idea to fund crisis intervention training for more officers. I also think it would be a good idea to have on call social workers that the police could bring with them to mental health/welfare/DV calls. Problem is, when the person having a mental crisis or DV situation is armed, or reported to be armed, the social workers won't come in until the scene is safe, so you're still going to have the problem of the police being the first point of contact for armed, distraught people who may decide to provoke the police into killing them. Especially in more rural communities, this will always be the case. More often than not, you have a regional group who is the response team to situations like that - a group of people who are on call from multi-jurisdictional groups. The first officer on scene won't have the support of the local jurisdiction specifically, and will have to wait for that multi-jurisdictional team to mobilize and get on scene. In the district I was speaking about... They're gonna have to wait. They've been trained in this kind of thing, but they're still gonna have to wait for the cavalry. Cops do need better training, especially in these types of situations, and that's where having more nationalized standards will help. Dead Reckoning- I still would like to hear your response to how me having better training standards nationwide with regards to EMS would help, when you took them to mean that they'd be less help.  I would always rather be trained well on equipment I might be required to use in the line of duty and let that training get rusty than not be trained on it at all. Especially when you are training a group of people who may not end up working in that specific county as their final destination. That is ridiculous and should not be the standard of training. Arguing that people should be less trained in their line of work is a terrible argument to make, especially when it's so easy to use. There's a difference between saying, "What next, are you saying EMTs should be allowed to drop ET tubes?!" and saying, "Hey, this thing is so easy to use, that even when the level of training that you are already required to have, you can verify its placement, and hey, these two other things are even easier to use." For clarification - windshipper posted:If you're talking hazmat ops, that's not advanced at all. To add - Hazmat Ops is also incredibly helpful because as a first responder, you will be on scene to overturned tanker trucks, overturned railroad cars, overturned any-loving-thing on a highway, and you need to know how to deal with or or how to help deal with it. There is SO MUCH poo poo that goes over the highway you have no loving clue. Driving down the interstate, I've just randomly looked up poo poo that's only marked with the UN number, and no other placards, while my wife is driving, just to see what it might be, and I cannot count the number of times I've told her to speed up to pass them, because we don't want to get caught behind that for whatever reason. That poo poo also drives down backroads, because they want to bypass weigh stations. You say hazmat ops isn't necessary for a first responder and that's where I 1.) call bull poo poo, and 2.) It's easy to get, and it's necessary to at least understand the progression of an incident and how you can help out. Hazmat awareness is nothing, and is even easier to get. Unless they're requiring everyone to be techs (which is loving hilarious and stupid, I will say that), Hazmat Ops is stupid easy if you know how to study and use the manual which YOU ARE ALLOWED TO WRITE NOTES IN AND USE DURING THE EXAM. Edit: And again, to national standards, WA state requires you to get Hazmat Ops to be a firefighter in the state. It's not that hard, and that's a terrible example for you to use. windshipper fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 03:23
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Dead Reckoning posted:Guardians of the Revolutionary Vanguard, like these fine folks. It means you can have a higher legal standard than what you believe is possible if a law is passed saying there is a higher standard.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:30
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What ever happened to Copchat/Gunchat thread?
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Sep 20, 2017 03:36
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Got blasted for being too dark.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:37
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Deathy McDeath posted:What ever happened to Copchat/Gunchat thread? Shot in the streets or in pretrial confinement, I assume.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:37
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Deathy McDeath posted:What ever happened to Copchat/Gunchat thread? all the fighting upsets Dear Leader
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Sep 20, 2017 03:39
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Deathy McDeath posted:What ever happened to Copchat/Gunchat thread? It should be reinstated. But Dead Reckoning apparently hates the idea of understanding his line of work - assuming he's an FF or EMT. Edit: I'm sorry for continuing this derail, but someone in my field downplaying the necessities of nationalized standards or arguing for less training, and saying that certain things aren't necessities or helpful when they absolutely are. Especially when it comes to saving lives, minimizing property damage, or helping others is something I will not stand for. Where the gently caress do you think us having to read the NIOSH reports on close calls or dead firefighter incidents comes from? Where do you think the required standards of training to maintain your NREMT come from? Why do you think IFSAC and the rest exist? Sure, some lot of it is to make money, but it's created because of a need for NATIONALIZED standards and understanding of dangers in the field and how to avoid them. gently caress that I'll always take more training in my profession to better serve the people who pay my salary and my next door neighbor. I want to know that the people who respond to save my parents when my mom takes a tumble from her horse or my dad drops a tree on himself know their job to the best of their ability, and not just some lowered regional standard. I want to know that when I respond to those calls I have those higher abilities as well. I've serve the community my parents live in for 3 years and I've served the community my in laws live in for almost a year and a half now. I don't want to be the gently caress up who says I don't need or want that training when it comes down to those calls I know will happen when it comes to my family, whether or not I'm working my regular shift that day. windshipper fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 03:40
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Deathy McDeath posted:What ever happened to Copchat/Gunchat thread? It's the catch-all thread for circular firing squad discussions about guns, police violence, etc., now renamed the Probation Honeypot Thread after Shim briefly forgot that it was meant to be a probie-free area. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3821185
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Sep 20, 2017 04:26
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Taking my bitchfest about Dead Reckoning there. Hopefully he's willing to respond there.
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Sep 20, 2017 04:52
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windshipper posted:Dead Reckoning- I still would like to hear your response to how me having better training standards nationwide with regards to EMS would help, when you took them to mean that they'd be less help. The point is that you're wish-listing. (I'm not a FTO anymore, but I was an instructor and training chief in the service.) When you're developing a national curriculum, if at any point you find yourself saying, "...but half of you aren't going to end up using this" that's something that needs to be cut, (unless it's a building block skill for something else they are going to use.) National Reg curriculum should be the baseline, not an attempt to cover every single device an agency might issue this year. I had an aircrew training comparison here with Flight School->Aircraft Qual->Mission Qual->Unit/Deployment Spec Training, but it was unnecessary. Yeah, I'd like to be trained in upper airway devices, just like I'd like to get ACLS, high angle rescue, or half a dozen other training courses. But since I won't be issued upper airway devices in my agency/county, and the most likely result of using one on a patient would be action against my license, why should I be required to waste time studying them in order to gain/maintain my licensing? If the idea is to force my employer to provide superfluous training in case I decide to jump ship to a different county, I'd rather they direct that money towards my healthcare, salary, or better/newer equipment. windshipper posted:<stuff about hazmat> The only reason we're even discussing this is that we both apparently work in EMS; if someone (like several of my classmates) gets their EMT cert so that they can work as a backwoods guide, they don't need a Hazmat cert at any level. Since EMT=/=EMS, the curriculum shouldn't require superfluous certification for a national license.
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Sep 20, 2017 05:25
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psydude posted:You're right, they aren't the military. And they aren't fighting an armed force. Why are they shooting unarmed motorists/college students and getting away with it. My dude, hell yea! My rear end in a top hat would have been sliced open for popping an ND in the mid east. They would insert a dildo so large up I'd be thankful for the slicing, because at least then it fits better. gently caress cops. They're dumping mags inside of America and they get light duty and free leave. It's an issue of fairness.
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Sep 20, 2017 05:32
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yeah, I'd like to be trained in upper airway devices, just like I'd like to get ACLS, high angle rescue, or half a dozen other training courses. But since I won't be issued upper airway devices in my agency/county, and the most likely result of using one on a patient would be action against my license, why should I be required to waste time studying them in order to gain/maintain my licensing? If the idea is to force my employer to provide superfluous training in case I decide to jump ship to a different county, I'd rather they direct that money towards my healthcare, salary, or better/newer equipment. Being trained in upper airway devices is absolutely nothing like the hours of training in ACLS (which is far beyond the scope of practice for an EMT), high angle rescue, or whatever your other half dozen other training course you're thinking of are. That's why it's part of your basic NREMT course. Which most states require to be a part of getting your EMT certification. This is nothing like that, and you're basically slippery slopping your way down here with that. If it's against your license in that county, that's fine, but it's not in far more counties than you can think which is why it's part of the National Registry. It's pretty goddamn simple. I was able to be trained on it, and I've thrown them since I got my NREMT license, and it took me two years to throw one after I got it, after a short period of time of OJT, due to me never having to throw one since getting my NREMT. If I ACTUALLY WAS DECENTLY TRAINED ON IT when I got my NREMT, it would have been even less time. I'm working using a different county's SOPs now than I was when I got trained - and that goes back to the, "Just because you were trained in one place and got certified in one place, doesn't mean you'll work there your whole career," part that I was talking about - hence the need for national standards. Most cops don't work their whole careers in one place either. I know of one example off the top of my head who's on his second department trying to get a third, simply because he's working his way up the chain to a better job in a better place. He started off in a department where it's basically old burnt out people and brand new cops, and he's working his way up to a bigger city gig. He started off in tribal, now he's in county, and trying for a bigger city. posted:Let me clarify here, I have whatever the baseline FEMA Hazmat training is, I did it as part of my orientation. (I don't have my big book of certs with me ATM.) What I'm saying is, one of our nearby counties apparently has a county-specific hazmat cert that they require. I only know because I was asked if I was going to apply to work in that county and whether or not I had it. I assume they have their reasons for this, and there are probably equally valid reasons why my county only requires the baseline. So you have awareness then. So again, having further national standard would have helped you out? posted:The only reason we're even discussing this is that we both apparently work in EMS; if someone (like several of my classmates) gets their EMT cert so that they can work as a backwoods guide, they don't need a Hazmat cert at any level. Since EMT=/=EMS, the curriculum shouldn't require superfluous certification for a national license. As a backwoods guide, no they wouldn't, and I wouldn't expect them to need it. National standards shouldn't be across the board in the sense of, "If you're EMT you need all of these," that's what I was arguing about with all of this - application, writing of them, and all that. If you're a wilderness EMT that's actually a specific sub certification. So... yeah. Part of the reason this means a lot to me is this- windshipper posted:Where the gently caress do you think us having to read the NIOSH reports on close calls or dead firefighter incidents comes from? Where do you think the required standards of training to maintain your NREMT come from? Why do you think IFSAC and the rest exist? Sure, some lot of it is to make money, but it's created because of a need for NATIONALIZED standards and understanding of dangers in the field and how to avoid them. gently caress that I'll always take more training in my profession to better serve the people who pay my salary and my next door neighbor. I want to know that the people who respond to save my parents when my mom takes a tumble from her horse or my dad drops a tree on himself know their job to the best of their ability, and not just some lowered regional standard. I want to know that when I respond to those calls I have those higher abilities as well. I do not like you arguing that EMS providers don't need to be trained better or held to better standards. If you work in EMS like you've said, you've met many EMS providers, and I think you'd be hard pressed to say your standard EMS provider doesn't need more training on a regular basis. Especially in more rural jurisdictions where they don't have a high call volume. ESPECIALLY in jurisdictions without high call volume. Finally, since you're responding here and not the Honeypot thread - windshipper posted:Continuing my argument with Dead Reckoning here- This isn't even getting into the shitshow about backboarding patients. Dr. Bob in rural BFE county isn't always going to think about major studies when he's making his decisions on protocol or have heard about them necessarily. It's far more likely a more educated professional who has kept up on literature is more likely to take into account well run studies in their protocols and thoughts as far as pushing for better patient care. That's not always going to be the case, but on the whole it's likely to help national standards of care. Edit 2 - I just can't fathom you comparing the idea of throwing a king LTE or an iGel along with pushing cardiac drugs or the like as two similar things.  edit 3: Like, seriously, if you have your NREMT, you should theoretically know how to throw a supraglottic airway. You should know how simple it is, you should be trained to do it. You can't compare that poo poo. What the gently caress. windshipper fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 05:36
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not caring here posted:Yeah, the kind of people that generally want to become cops, are not the kind of people you want to be cops. Perhaps the same could be said of politicians.
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Sep 20, 2017 05:44
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KildarX posted:I feel if you give panicky people guns they'll look for any excuse to shoot someone who appears hostile. So maybe cops shouldn't have guns, if they're always able to use the "HES COMING RIGHT FOR US" defense, even if the victim is only kinda ambling towards them. Believe it or not, panicky people are not always hopeful loving murders, you moron.
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Sep 20, 2017 05:59
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No, but if you give someone a gun and then tell them that everyone is going to try to kill them, their actions will be virtually indistinguishable.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:21
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windshipper posted:Lots of stuff Dude, take it to the honeypot thread 
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Sep 20, 2017 06:32
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Godholio posted:Believe it or not, panicky people are not always hopeful loving murders, you moron.  They sure as hell will shoot at things that are scaring them. If they are panicking what scares them wouldn't really scare a rational human being. Like that dude who got mag dumped sitting in his car next to his girlfriend, with his kid in the back seat after telling the cop "I have to inform you I have a gun in the car". Idiot. edit: To be clear, I don't think cops are out to murder everyone. I just think because of how they're trained, how they're armed, and maybe some psychiatric factors they're set up so that the needle is pointed towards lethal that lowers to non-lethal, instead of towards non-lethal that ratchets up to lethal in high stress situations, so that one wrong move or incompliance may end up with some dude dying instead of arrested. I mean you can see the difference in that video. The one officer gets approached, he backs up a bit as the dude comes towards him doesn't shoot him, dude turns around heads towards the other officer, dude approaches him the same way gets blasted. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 06:33
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hobbesmaster posted:Maybe places that can’t afford to have a police department shouldn’t have one? I live in one of those places, and it's not good.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:43
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Arc Light posted:It's the catch-all thread for circular firing squad discussions about guns, police violence, etc., now renamed the Probation Honeypot Thread after Shim briefly forgot that it was meant to be a probie-free area. My fault. Updated, pending any overriding judgment(s) from shim.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:45
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KildarX posted:
There are absolutely lovely cops. If you want to attract quality people, you need to offer quality training, benefits, and quality of life. Then you can raise recruitment standards to the point where you're not taking literally anyone who can pass a background check. But as mentioned, that ain't happening. And even the good ones feel like they're being targeted by the general public. Edit: Pretend I posted the Dinkheller video again.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:56
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Remember when the GOP wanted to repeal obamacare and trump thought he could be president? 
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Sep 20, 2017 07:32
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http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/351461-erdogan-trump-apologized-to-me-over-turkish-bodyguards-attacking lol Sad part is I can believe it.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:25
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Two Finger posted:Shim please let me start probating for this poo poo I just woke up and I really want to go nuts with the probate button but nobody is really breaking any rules. So I'll just politely ask that you boys take police reform chat to the other thread. Let's return the CE thread to current events boys.
LtCol J. Krusinski fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 08:41
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