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Barudak posted:I just tell the various women I impregnate on one night stands while im traveling for work a fake name so the whole cost of raising kids never comes up for me. "Don't worry, Pnurtis, your father Bort only left for a few years to pick up some smokes. I'm sure he'll be back any day now" 
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Oct 30, 2017 19:56
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COMRADES posted:Here's how it works: you have money or you get turbo hosed in every single way you can possibly imagine. There is maternity leave for the father, the problem is that a lot of work cultures pressure men not to take it or take very little.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:03
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Well that's good at least. 6 weeks is still kind of poo poo though and a lot of employers still do the whole "well you wanna be back as soon as possibly obviously because we don't know how long we can realistically keep your position open..." e: I know they are legally supposed to keep your job open but they still pressure you to come back sooner COMRADES fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 20:05
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COMRADES posted:Well that's good at least. 6 weeks is still kind of poo poo though and a lot of employers still do the whole "well you wanna be back as soon as possibly obviously because we don't know how long we can realistically keep your position open..." Yeah I agree. I find it particularly heinous in women dominated fields, where supervisors and peers are not just women but parents as well yet they still pressure new parents to get back to work. My job has really good benefits yet our union constantly has to battle management about FMLA violations.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:08
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Beat kids
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Oct 30, 2017 21:06
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Aren't your 20s the best year of your life?
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Oct 30, 2017 22:06
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Magius1337est posted:Aren't your 20s the best year of your life? 24-26, still young enough to do stupid poo poo, old enough to have some direction in my life and responsibility, not old enough that I had strong opinions on zoning and city bond elections. 21-23 was pretty much an empty blur of alcohol, cocaine and sex with randos on alcohol and cocaine.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:13
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Three Olives posted:24-26, still young enough to do stupid poo poo, old enough to have some direction in my life and responsibility, not old enough that I had strong opinions on zoning and city bond elections. 21-23 was pretty much an empty blur of alcohol, cocaine and sex with randos on alcohol and cocaine. so by 30 you're just loving dead
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Oct 30, 2017 23:08
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Magius1337est posted:so by 30 you're just loving dead if you're lucky, yes
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Oct 30, 2017 23:19
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Magius1337est posted:Aren't your 20s the best year of your life? I vote 30s, you are still young but have SOME brains/wisdom/experience.
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Oct 30, 2017 23:48
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Spinster posted:I vote 30s, you are still young but have SOME brains/wisdom/experience. Same, 20s is for making mistakes and 30s is for knowing better how to avoid some of them and reap the rewards more.
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Oct 31, 2017 01:35
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Zzulu posted:what the gently caress TORMP! 
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Oct 31, 2017 01:43
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I knew a guy who had a kid and they wound up moving an hour away from the city and he made the drive every single day for work since it was the only way they could live off his ten bucks an hour while she took her unpaid maternity leave. She had a poo poo job too so they couldn't afford the $400/week or so it is for day care here. They probably would have broken even on it at best. People literally pay more for a week of daycare here than it costs for a lifetime of vasectomy.
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Oct 31, 2017 03:36
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Sundays too my father got up early and put his clothes on in the blueblack cold, then with cracked hands that ached from labor in the weekday weather made banked fires blaze. No one ever thanked him. I’d wake and hear the cold splintering, breaking. When the rooms were warm, he’d call, and slowly I would rise and dress, fearing the chronic angers of that house, Speaking indifferently to him, who had driven out the cold and polished my good shoes as well. What did I know, what did I know of love’s austere and lonely offices?
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Oct 31, 2017 04:31
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I haven't cared either way for kids. My wife has been the same way. We enjoy life as-is. If she came to me tomorrow and said lets adopt, I'd be fine with it. Nothing special here, grew up middle class in the 80s, had what I consider an awesome childhood, school was great, have been enjoying life every single day. I have a few regrets, but not having a kid isn't one of them. Maybe when I'm on my death bed? Who knows. Every job I've had, everyone is always telling me how they shouldn't have had kids and how much of a pain they are. I'm so lucky to take vacations and travel and buy stuff I guess? My parents had no problem taking me on vacations, most of my hobbies are the same as what my dad had, so I have no idea. Philthy fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 16:48
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Stagnant wages might contribute.
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Nov 1, 2017 14:02
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Yeah it's pretty simple. The average worker's wages could raise a decent family back then and now they can't.
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Nov 1, 2017 18:02
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My wife's friend had a situation out of r/relationships. She got pregnant at 17 from a boyfriend, and decided to get an abortion. She later meets her husband and they decide to hold off on kids. She gets pregnant unexpectedly at 25 and her husband is freaked out that they can't possibly support a child (even though she had a masters and a good job, and he was an RN). At the time she wanted both of them beyond on board with parenting, so she had another abortion. At 40 they are even more stable and she wants kids. Her husband finally agrees and they start trying,but at this point she's dealing with infertility. During the fertility treatment (intra uterine insemination) she discovers her husband has gotten a female Co worker pregnant, and also has been hooking up with other guys on Craigslist (this was before tinder type apps were common). So she ended up with a real punch in the ovaries; her husband getting some other woman pregnant and also being really Evasive about whether he used protection when he had sex with other men. So she had to get tested for HIV and stress about that, along with dealing with a messy divorce. Through her tribulations she often second guessed her choices in the past, and often regretted the opportunity of being a mother given that she was in her forties and single with little to show for the time.
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Nov 3, 2017 19:07
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Chomp8645 posted:Yeah it's pretty simple. The average worker's wages could raise a decent family back then and now they can't. you can still raise a family in the living standards of the 1940s just fine
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Nov 3, 2017 19:20
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Rutibex posted:you can still raise a family in the living standards of the 1940s just fine It's true, even the poors of today can afford a refrigerator, a radio, and a copy of classic board game "Monopoly".
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Nov 3, 2017 19:26
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Panfilo posted:My wife's friend had a situation out of r/relationships. She got pregnant at 17 from a boyfriend, and decided to get an abortion. She later meets her husband and they decide to hold off on kids. She gets pregnant unexpectedly at 25 and her husband is freaked out that they can't possibly support a child (even though she had a masters and a good job, and he was an RN). At the time she wanted both of them beyond on board with parenting, so she had another abortion. Yeah most people have children so that at least they did SOMETHING with their lives.
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Nov 3, 2017 19:29
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DrPlump posted:Yeah most people have children so that at least they did SOMETHING with their lives. Did you even read my post? The woman passed up having kids in her twenties specifically because her husband wasn't ready. She wasted nearly two decades of her life with a guy who ended up cheating on her. Had she kept her baby she would have at least gotten to be a mother. Hindsight is a real bitch sometimes.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:03
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Cut her a break guys there is just no way an educated couple in their mid 20's, both employed in well paying jobs, was prepared to have a kid. The circumstances were
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Nov 3, 2017 20:12
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Chomp8645 posted:Cut her a break guys there is just no way an educated couple in their mid 20's, both employed in well paying jobs, was prepared to have a kid. That's not the point--it's that it's a decision you have a limited amount of time to make and because right now in your 20s you feel like you'd never want a kid who could chain you down and force you to be more responsible, what you want when you're in your 30s and 40s may be different, and by then, it may be too late, or at least, a lot more difficult. It wouldn't surprise me if there were plenty of people in their 40s and 50s who wish they'd had kids but for whatever reason, decided against it when they were younger.
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Nov 3, 2017 23:56
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tbh things can be fine in your 20s and then radically go to poo poo overnight however they can at any time also. poo poo sucks man.
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Nov 4, 2017 02:38
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A Strange Aeon posted:That's not the point--it's that it's a decision you have a limited amount of time to make and because right now in your 20s you feel like you'd never want a kid who could chain you down and force you to be more responsible, what you want when you're in your 30s and 40s may be different, and by then, it may be too late, or at least, a lot more difficult. I bet for most people in their 50's at least they never actually made an affirmative decision not to have kids in the first place so much as it just never happened, whether it's because they never got around to it or weren't able. It's obviously easy to imagine many of them have regrets, but I really do wonder if the newer generations who are more likely to actually flat out decide they never want kids will have the same regrets as the social expectation decreases. I think many still will, and that as later life strips meaning from a lot of pursuits like careers they'll wish they had something meaningful that would outlive them, but that could just be my own pessimism speaking since I'm not going to have kids.
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Nov 4, 2017 02:50
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If you really want a kid later in life there's still adoption. You can even get something that's not a toddler! It won't have your genes but if you're really parent material and dedicated to making an impact I like to think you'll make an positive impact on another human who'll outlive you still. It's not like not having own kids is some huge crime to the species, I have a feeling humanity will do just fine without you personally multiplying. There's always enough people producing kids they won't/can't care for. If it's really just about putting your own genes out there into the future... welp. That's kinda weird isn't it Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 03:17
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Police Automaton posted:If it's really just about putting your own genes out there into the future... welp. That's kinda weird isn't it We evolved to do that more than anything else we do, so it's not really that weird. I think adoption and step parenthood are totally valid ways for people to find fulfillment, but I think it's pretty unfair to fault anyone for also wanting to see themselves in their child. Sure, nurture can instill some of that, but nature has an awful lot to do with it too, especially visibly. This is narcissistic enough to probably be a little weird, but as a single guy who's dated single moms, I've personally found it flattering when people have mistaken a kid for being mine (though I don't lie about it or anything--I'm not that weird). It's definitely the exception rather than the rule though.
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Nov 4, 2017 04:00
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Police Automaton posted:If you really want a kid later in life there's still adoption. You can even get something that's not a toddler! It won't have your genes but if you're really parent material and dedicated to making an impact I like to think you'll make an positive impact on another human who'll outlive you still. It's not like not having own kids is some huge crime to the species, I have a feeling humanity will do just fine without you personally multiplying. There's always enough people producing kids they won't/can't care for. Adoption can be very difficult emotionally and as I understand it is difficult to even be candidates to be adoptive parents if you're married and not famous. I imagine it is an order of magnitude more so if you're not even married.
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Nov 4, 2017 04:03
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Back in school (that is a while ago) I had a classmate who was adopted, the parents were in their 60s. Singles can adopt too, if you are willing to adopt internationally things get a lot less picky. I've read stories of single women in their 50s adopting toddlers. If that's right or wrong.. It probably beats growing up in a Brazilian slum, that's for sure. (This is for Europe, no idea how the US handles such things) Of course you have to have some serious money for such things, but if you're in your 40-50s and have no disposable income, you probably shouldn't have a child to begin with. That's probably right for any age. I remember a friend (I cut all ties with eons ago) who was always very.. well. She didn't manage a lot in life. Liked to get drunk and party. That sort of person. Then she got into her head that she wanted a child and got pregnant after she turned 30. Never mentioned the dad, so I can only assume he was an unknown. She was living on welfare, I asked her how she'll guarantee that the child will have any stability and a good life with her track record (I was already ready to burn bridges so I didn't really care how she'd take that question) her reply to that was that the government will handle it, somehow and that not every child needs a mansion. This from a woman who was complaining about empty fridges at the end of the month. Just irresponsible. No idea how I fell into this particular story of my life, but it sure felt nice telling it! Anyways, well of course the biological imperative is to multiply but I think we are (or should be) a little past that in the complex world we created. Or not. If you think rationally and not with your monkey brain it actually is a bit weird tho IMHO.
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Nov 4, 2017 04:17
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chumbler posted:Adoption can be very difficult emotionally and as I understand it is difficult to even be candidates to be adoptive parents if you're married and not famous. I imagine it is an order of magnitude more so if you're not even married. Adoption certainly has its hurdles though there are several adoption paths, each with pros and cons. Most people are familiar with private or international adoption, which have less oversight but tend to be more costly. However there's also fost adoption, which is foster care that transitions into adoption. With kids under 1,this process can take less than a year. If the county can't find a next kid kin for the child then the fost adopt parents get full custody. Many babies have parents and family that never fight for custody and the process can be rather fast. It costs almost nothing but has the most extensive background checks (which is why a lot of parents don't want to do it). Even after the child is fully adopted the parents continue to receive money to support the child, based on their own needs (so if the child has disabilities the parents will be reimbursed for many expenses). They also get covered under Medicare till they are 18. Really anybody that can pass a background check and has an extra bedroom can fost adopt. I know a single guy guy who fost adopted several children this way. Being single and/or gay didn't work against him, and his adopted kids absolutely adored him (basically the dude was like a gay Mr. Rogers). But ultimately the decision to adopt is difficult. Nobody wants to feel like they were somebody's contingency plan. Adopting due to infertility can often carry that baggage, both from the parents and from the adopted children.
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Nov 4, 2017 04:33
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Panfilo posted:Adoption certainly has its hurdles though there are several adoption paths, each with pros and cons. Most people are familiar with private or international adoption, which have less oversight but tend to be more costly. However there's also fost adoption, which is foster care that transitions into adoption. With kids under 1,this process can take less than a year. If the county can't find a next kid kin for the child then the fost adopt parents get full custody. Many babies have parents and family that never fight for custody and the process can be rather fast. It costs almost nothing but has the most extensive background checks (which is why a lot of parents don't want to do it). Even after the child is fully adopted the parents continue to receive money to support the child, based on their own needs (so if the child has disabilities the parents will be reimbursed for many expenses). They also get covered under Medicare till they are 18. Really anybody that can pass a background check and has an extra bedroom can fost adopt. I know a single guy guy who fost adopted several children this way. Being single and/or gay didn't work against him, and his adopted kids absolutely adored him (basically the dude was like a gay Mr. Rogers). God that sounds so much better than the standard foster care
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Nov 4, 2017 04:38
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Spinster posted:God that sounds so much better than the standard foster care Its underrated and a lot of people aren't familiar with all the differences, which is how they can walk away assuming they'd need to have 30 grand in the bank or be Brad Pitt to be an adoptive parent. There's differences in licensing as well which can trip people up. There's regular Foster Care, where you have kids temporarily with the intent that they will be reunified with family or placed with adoptive parents, emergency foster care which is where the kids that get removed get placed temporarily and have social workers showing up at their door at 12AM, and fost-adoptive care which is like foster care but with the intent to be the adoptive family. Since many families don't look in the details (and the devil's always in the details!) they will think because they were emergency foster care parents that cared for an infant since she left the NICU they will be in front of the line when it comes to adoption. However, it doesn't work that way. Money also complicates things; regular foster parents get more money per month than fost-adopt parents, and parents of medically fragile children get MUCH more money. Both types are also covered under WIC so you get free formula/baby food as well. The other catch is that unlike Private Adoption, you may not get a Perfect White Baby. Social Workers always try to match kids with parents that would be a good fit, not just for the kids but also the parents as well. It isn't unusual for foster parents to want a kid that looks like them and has no physical or mental problems, but generally babies that fall under this category don't even end up in foster care to begin with. Most of the fost-adopt infants were exposed to drugs in utero, and it isn't unusual for a mom to have multiple kids taken away as soon as they are born due to failing drug tests while pregnant in unsuccessful bids to get their older kids back. These kids can have developmental disabilities or mental health issues, and the social workers handling the case only know so much. But on the flip side, perfectly healthy people also give birth to babies with developmental problems as well. Ultimately the complicated thing about Adoption is that if a woman has a child biologically, she gets to experience pregnancy and that child is a literal physical extension of the parents. With adoption the race of the child may be different than the parents and as much as people like to say that doesn't matter, it does play a factor- the first generation of trans-racial adoptees (black kids adopted by white parents, back in the fifties/sixties) had it pretty bad because they were compelled to abandon the culture of their birth parents and adopt the culture of their adopted parents. This would cause strife with them when they were older, since they couldn't connect culturally with other black cultural groups, yet as much as they tried to act like their white adoptive parents, white people still treated them as negatively as any other black person they saw. I've heard Australia had a real notorious issue with this "The lost generation". The US also had a lovely version of that as well, which pushed for reforms in foster care since you'd get a lot of white trash families that would adopt a bunch of kids removed from their homes on a nearby reservation, and use them solely as an income source (which is where you hear a lot of the foster care horror stories).
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Nov 4, 2017 05:38
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'The stolen generations' is what you might be thinking of, and it's probably even worse than you think. (basically think Canadian treatment of natives)
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Nov 4, 2017 05:42
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Inescapable Duck posted:'The stolen generations' is what you might be thinking of, and it's probably even worse than you think. (basically think Canadian treatment of natives) Hate to break it to you but both countries did this. Lost Generation is Australia, Stolen Generation is Canada.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:48
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Pick posted:Hate to break it to you but both countries did this. Lost Generation is Australia, Stolen Generation is Canada. its all the same empire
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Nov 4, 2017 05:53
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Pick posted:Hate to break it to you but both countries did this. Lost Generation is Australia, Stolen Generation is Canada. Yeah, a lot of these countries had versions of this, basically convincing themselves they could 'civilize' native people. It was a plot point in the movie 'The Sapphires' where one sister (who was fair skinned enough to 'pass' as white) had been taken away while very young and couldn't really connect to the cultural issues her other sisters were currently dealing with. In the US today if a child in foster care is found to have any tribal affiliation the process becomes much more complicated as people from that child's tribe get preferential placement if they can find people available.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8ViYIeH04 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 4, 2017 06:22
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Pick posted:Hate to break it to you but both countries did this. Lost Generation is Australia, Stolen Generation is Canada. We call it 'Stolen Generations' (emphasis on plural now because it went on til the loving nineties) down under as well. The government made an official apology for it.
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Nov 4, 2017 08:20
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COMRADES posted:Well that's good at least. 6 weeks is still kind of poo poo though and a lot of employers still do the whole "well you wanna be back as soon as possibly obviously because we don't know how long we can realistically keep your position open..." In Canada women get a year off to raise their new baby, and their job is temporarily filled and kept open for them when they are ready to return.
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Nov 4, 2017 12:58
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