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Tobbs Gnawed posted:What is this, really? "Oh hey, I see you're reading the other thread, so am I!" It's not necessarily scummy as I've been trying to keep up with them as well, but it sort of looks like he's calling out PMush for something he himself is doing, which I think he'd realize if he was sharing a genuine opinion here. The point of this I can see very easily since it is the same reason I am suspect of both her and Gamer. They both were treating the other thread like their home thread in their mind. They seem like slips. Gamer's version of responding to said slip was also super bad. Pmush ignored hers and just did other bad things. 
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Jan 2, 2018 20:07
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So are you saying they can’t be on the same scum team or can’t be scum at all?
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Jan 2, 2018 20:09
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Your Personal Muse posted:So are you saying they can’t be on the same scum team or can’t be scum at all? I just don't think they are both on the same scum team at this point. I think they are fair candidates separately as scum, but if we flipped one today as scum then I'd probably consider the other one as cleared unless some kind of investigation result turned up something.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:12
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TMMadman posted:I feel that it's a very reasonable and real concern. I don't mind being wrong about a lynch, but I absolutely want to be cautious about the lynch as well. Scum want town to make rushed and bad decisions and I will always fight against it. Gamer and PMush could both be town, both be scum, or just one of them could be scum. They're both up there because, regardless of alignment, their play has been scummy. We're 6 hours from deadline in a 25-player game where the most votes anyone has had at one time is five (I think). We are, as a group, hesitating to put players at -7. That doesn't suggest to me that the lynch candidates are scum pushes. They certainly could be, but nobody has had a ton of heat on them this entire game day. Were I scum, I'd be terrified of quasi-immortal confirmed town KB. That's part of why I'm looking more closely at players who are being overly cautious, in addition to the players being outright scummy.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:12
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King Burgundy posted:Gun to your head, who are your top 3 scum? Hats and? Quid, and Kash. Keane is pinging my gut, but not for any particular reason.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:12
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TMMadman posted:I feel that it's a very reasonable and real concern. I don't mind being wrong about a lynch, but I absolutely want to be cautious about the lynch as well. Scum want town to make rushed and bad decisions and I will always fight against it. I dunno, if I'm scum with pmush at this point I'd have written her off and be bussing like crazy. Gamer seems to actually have quite a few people saying they think he is town/don't understand the vote, could be scum buddies trying to defend/move the vote. You and your flip, MMT, always have this kind of reaction to momentum and sometimes it is a correct feeling, but sometimes you just are missing subtle nuances like the above. I'm not sure which this is yet.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:14
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King Burgundy posted:The point of this I can see very easily since it is the same reason I am suspect of both her and Gamer. They both were treating the other thread like their home thread in their mind. They seem like slips. Gamer's version of responding to said slip was also super bad. Pmush ignored hers and just did other bad things. Are we allowed to post in the other thread? That seems really unusual.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:15
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50 pounds of bread posted:Quid, and Kash. You still haven't really given a good reason for thinking I'm scum other than 50 pounds of bread posted:There it is. 50 pounds of bread posted:The case is the fact that he called me a townie as if he knew my alignment. The vote is sincere, but not passionate. which is...nonsense considering I said that I *think* you're town
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Jan 2, 2018 20:16
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SalTheBard posted:Are we allowed to post in the other thread? That seems really unusual. nonono.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:17
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SalTheBard posted:Are we allowed to post in the other thread? That seems really unusual. No. That's my point. Responding to things in that thread, in this thread, as if they'd happened here, is weird. When Gamer did it he even tried to excuse it away as if that wasn't what happened and his excuse was bad. Posting in the other thread is grounds for mod punishment.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:18
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Gamer and PMush could both be town, both be scum, or just one of them could be scum. They're both up there because, regardless of alignment, their play has been scummy. Yeah, also this.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:20
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Kid doesn't need to mull it over much, the way the camp's been talking. It's not his favorite vote, but this sort of thing rarely leaves a good feeling in your gut. ##vote PMush
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Jan 2, 2018 20:21
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:We're 6 hours from deadline in a 25-player game where the most votes anyone has had at one time is five (I think). We are, as a group, hesitating to put players at -7. That doesn't suggest to me that the lynch candidates are scum pushes. They certainly could be, but nobody has had a ton of heat on them this entire game day. whew do not like the implication here
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Jan 2, 2018 20:23
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Monathin posted:Kid doesn't need to mull it over much, the way the camp's been talking. It's not his favorite vote, but this sort of thing rarely leaves a good feeling in your gut. what's your fave vote kiddo
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Jan 2, 2018 20:23
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SalTheBard posted:Are we allowed to post in the other thread? That seems really unusual. No, but scum in our thread are allied with town in the other thread. My understanding is that scum in our thread can do very little to influence the Texans. The only way they'd need to interact with them at all is if they were put into battle on the front lines AND all of their actions were ranged attacks, which seems unlikely. However, indicating that the other thread is more important/interesting to you could be a way to softly signal to your allies that you're on their side, in hopes that if they're put into battle they won't be hit by their allies. In reality, these are all assumptions based on the information I have on scum abilities, which comes only from the rules. PMush's revelation that she can hit any rank calls into question those rules, as what seemed to be a hard rule (ranged town can only target two ranks in front of them) is broken by PMush's ability, assuming she has it and is town-aligned. If you go deeper into speculative territory (my apologies to everyone who hates this), maybe she's telling the truth about being able to target any player, but instead of dealing damage it's a buff. If that's the case (scum can buff their home team) then it would be almost critical for them to read the Texas thread to determine who they should target.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:25
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## vote hats I think his case on me was opportunistic. There was a legitimate case on me that I would have respected, but this felt like a peel to me. Not sure if it was a peel off a townie in order to establish knighthood, or a peel off a scumbuddy. A kash lynch would be good for me too, I don't like anyone calling me townie on day 1, it runs contrary to my approach to mafia, and it always reads to me as them having hidden info. The way hats peeled with his case for me makes me a bit extra wary. My gut isn't a huge fan of the kash lynch though even though my brain says do it.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:26
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Kashuno posted:what's your fave vote kiddo Kid likes Gamer best, still, but the way wind's blowin', Kid knows there's not much chance that'll happen, wanted to give Mush a bit more benefit. Kid ain't one to complain, better to move together than end the day squabbling over two or three reads and split opinion.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:27
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Monathin posted:Kid likes Gamer best, still, but the way wind's blowin', Kid knows there's not much chance that'll happen, wanted to give Mush a bit more benefit. This is a bit strange to me, as they were 2 votes apart and you moved them to 4 votes apart. I'm not going to tell you how to play, just that your explanation is kind of confusing.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:32
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Kashuno posted:You still haven't really given a good reason for thinking I'm scum other than You act as though the qualifier insulates you from suspicion. It doesnt.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:32
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I'm going to step away again for a bit and let things play out, but I'd like the final votes to consolidate on Pmush, Gamer, and Slaan if possible. Those are the three I'm most interested in seeing on the chopping block. Feel free to be on your favorite candidate of those for now rather than what you think is the consensus. Feel free to push to cuddle at any point though. Don't feel you need to wait up as long as it is one of those three. I'm submitting my battle line now.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:34
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I'm vote leader by a large margin and I won't even be home from work before deadline, so here are my final words: Kash is scum.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:36
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King Burgundy posted:I'm going to step away again for a bit and let things play out, but I'd like the final votes to consolidate on Pmush, Gamer, and Slaan if possible. I think my stance is known, but my order here is SLAAN, PMUSH, GAMER.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:40
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##vote Pmush Phoneposting so I can't really multiquote without it taking forever, but KB, I'll try to do better (though I'm really not much of a D1 poster or high-volume poster in general), and Tobbs while I agree with your general point, you went way too deep down the speculation hole at the end. 50 pounds of bread posted:You act as though the qualifier insulates you from suspicion. It doesnt. It doesn't mean you can't be suspicious of him, but when your entire stated case is "he was way too confident that I'm town", when his actual post was nowhere as definitive ad you make it out to be, it makes the whole thing look like scummy garbage.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:44
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King Burgundy posted:I'm going to step away again for a bit and let things play out, but I'd like the final votes to consolidate on Pmush, Gamer, and Slaan if possible. In this case I will ##vote Slaan for now, to keep things moving. I've posted my top picks but I'll dump them again here: Slaan, Quid, and to a lesser extent TMM and bread (who has been seeming strange all game). Gamer I'd have to go back and re-read before voting. I agreed with some of his early points during the Tobbs' reveal debacle, so I have a bit of a blind spot towards him at the moment. PMush I'd be willing to vote if it came down to it. She's been making excuses for absences ever since the first slip, I feel like at this point its just her trying to disappear and hope a new vote leader emerges while her scum buddies try to shift the vote. That said, enough people seem on board with this lynch that I still don't see a reason to rush it.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:44
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PMush Perfect posted:I'm vote leader by a large margin and I won't even be home from work before deadline, so here are my final words: I might be able to convince myself you were frustrated town if you listed your top 3 before peacing out. Let's lynch this scumbo.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:44
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King Burgundy posted:I'm going to step away again for a bit and let things play out, but I'd like the final votes to consolidate on Pmush, Gamer, and Slaan if possible. I've had a scum read on Gamer for most of the game. He's still my top pick. I think that PMush is, on paper, pretty scummy. The only part where I hesitate is that if she were town telling the truth about phone / no internet, she would be the easiest person for scum to try and drive a mislynch on. That said, if she were executed today I think there's a fine % chance that she's scum. I've had a town read on Slaan for most of the game but will re-read him to see if there's something I'm missing. Also I was going to case Keane before I saw KB's post but that can wait, I guess. I'm going to give those three another re-read and see if anything sticks out.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:47
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Murmur Twin posted:I've had a scum read on Gamer for most of the game. He's still my top pick. Oh yeah, btw, feel free to still case other people as you want/etc. I don't want to discourage those thoughts being out there. I'd just like the actual votes to consolidate. And for those that haven't already formed thoughts on those 3, I want that to happen and a vote to come down. I'm interested in seeing the Keane case, for example, I'd just rather he not get voted out today. Also, to even things out a bit on the lead up to the cuddle, I'll park here for now. ##vote Gamer
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Jan 2, 2018 20:56
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Murmur Twin posted:I've had a scum read on Gamer for most of the game. He's still my top pick. What do you think of Keane? I don't need a big case or anything, I'm sure curious about your overall stance towards him right now.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:57
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50 pounds of bread posted:You act as though the qualifier insulates you from suspicion. It doesnt. Thinking you are town is not equal to calling you town as if I knew your alignment and it's weird you're trying to paint it like it is.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:06
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The Lord of Hats posted:##vote Pmush When I spend the majority of D1 actively lurking and a dude calls me a townie it leaves me thinking, "wtf, why would you say that?" His reasoning for thinking I am probably town was mash up of WIFOM bullshit. You trying to call me scum for taking a Cartesian approach to D1 as opposed to the actual scummy thing I did is the scummiest thing in the game from my perspective. This obviously stems from the philosophy of "I town therefore I am."
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Jan 2, 2018 21:07
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King Burgundy posted:I'm going to step away again for a bit and let things play out, but I'd like the final votes to consolidate on Pmush, Gamer, and Slaan if possible. I'm phone posting on breaks at the moment. I haven't seen you comment on me before this. Why do you think I'm scum? I've been active in the thread, have explained my thought processes and pushed my read even though they are unpopular. I like Pmush and won't vote myself. Gamer was on my list so ##vote gamer
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Jan 2, 2018 21:08
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Kashuno posted:Thinking you are town is not equal to calling you town as if I knew your alignment and it's weird you're trying to paint it like it is. It absolutely is! you have literally no basis for that sort of assumption. It would be crazy for anybody to have had a town read on me at that point.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:08
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Slaan posted:I'm phone posting on breaks at the moment. I haven't seen you comment on me before this. Why do you think I'm scum? I've been active in the thread, have explained my thought processes and pushed my read even though they are unpopular. Do you have any reason for thinking PMush is town other than your analysis of why outing abilities is actually pro-town? Because people have explained why that isn't the case in detail (with multiple explanation), so that argument is pretty played out at this point. Specifically I want to know what you think of a) people pointing out the timing of her post after KB specifically asked us not to share ability info and b) her frequent excuses for her absence from the thread.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:12
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50 pounds of bread posted:It absolutely is! you have literally no basis for that sort of assumption. It would be crazy for anybody to have had a town read on me at that point. zzz Also I really think this gamer push is going to be an easy way to split the vote on pmush
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Jan 2, 2018 21:19
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Kashuno posted:zzz I'm really, really sold on PMush being scum. I'd vote gamer if necessary (no-lynching is no option) but I can't convince myself PMush is town. Hell, if I were on the block I'd absolutely reveal the gist of all my abilities, if for no other reason that they don't flip and it would give town an idea of what's out there, assuming Pod did his best to make both sides balanced.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:26
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50 pounds of bread posted:Quid, and Kash. This is a really weird connection considering we both think the other is scum? Are you saying we were faking it yesterday?
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Jan 2, 2018 21:27
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Bread has never mentioned me at all except for quoting my comment about Kash calling everyone scum. I don't see how that can be a real read beyond me being a popular person to vote for right now or whatever.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:29
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Quidthulhu posted:This is a really weird connection considering we both think the other is scum? Are you saying we were faking it yesterday? I mean how are you even asking that question when Kash and I famously spent an entire soldiers game calling each other scum? It's not something that is completely out of the realm of possibility.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:29
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TMMadman posted:I mean how are you even asking that question when Kash and I famously spent an entire soldiers game calling each other scum? I should clarify a bit as I'm not trying to answer for bread because he does need to answer in this specific case. But generally speaking, I find that question kind of silly because two scum will absolutely fight publicly.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:32
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Quidthulhu posted:Bread has never mentioned me at all except for quoting my comment about Kash calling everyone scum. I don't see how that can be a real read beyond me being a popular person to vote for right now or whatever. bruh you have one vote from a lurker come on now.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:35
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