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Skwirl posted:I'm pretty sure you still get the battle at the dam even if Caesar's dead.
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May 7, 2018 19:23
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turboraton posted:Same but NCR. Man, gently caress off with that poo poo Ulysses. The virtues of House vs. The NCR vs.Independent New Vegas really just come down to personal beliefs and all have good points that can be reasonably argued, but the second you start saying "The NCR is just as bad as the legion!" is the second you start sounding like a dumbass.
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May 7, 2018 19:31
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Man, gently caress off with that poo poo Ulysses. Good thing I didn't say that. Legion is comically bad, like, there is no way to support them. NCR is corrupt and inept, House is an immortal tyrant and Independent is tough at first but then -*|The Way|*-
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May 7, 2018 19:47
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Ulysses is basically the Ted Rall of the Mojave.
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May 7, 2018 20:35
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turboraton posted:Good thing I didn't say that. Legion is comically bad, like, there is no way to support them. NCR is corrupt and inept, House is an immortal tyrant and Independent is tough at first but then -*|The Way|*- Ah, I clearly misinterpreted your post then. I assumed when you said "Same, but with the NCR" you were implying the two groups were the same, my bad. Discendo Vox posted:Ulysses is basically the Ted Rall of the Mojave. Wow, that is the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone ever say about Ulysses.
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May 7, 2018 20:41
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Isn't the independent ending literally just a libertarians wet dream?
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May 7, 2018 22:48
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Isn't the independent ending literally just a libertarians wet dream? The settlements in the Mojave do not suddenly stop being societies and turn into free-for-alls just because there's no cattle baron armies or tech-bro mummy tyrants or cosplay rape gangs running roughshod over the place. In any case, an army of robots keep the peace and/or order afterward, depending on how competent the Courier was tending to the Mojave's business. At least the Courier has a choice to be an (absentee?) steward rather than a tyrant.
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May 7, 2018 23:04
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Isn't the independent ending literally just a libertarians wet dream? What happens if you "accidentally" goof up on Caesar's surgery? Are you next in command? I feel like Caesar already has someone pre-selected before he lets you operate on his brain, just to prevent those "accidents" from happening.
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May 7, 2018 23:20
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buglord posted:What happens if you "accidentally" goof up on Caesar's surgery? Are you next in command? I feel like Caesar already has someone pre-selected before he lets you operate on his brain, just to prevent those "accidents" from happening. Caesar has a line of succession where a person will take over in the event of his death. In this case it's his second-in-command, Legate Lanius. Although this seems more in line with Mad Max than an actual protege that Caesar was personally grooming for the express purpose of running the legion. Lanius is a poor choice and Caesar knows this. That's why he's so desperate to end the war quickly. Lanius doesn't have the head for the expansion in a practical fashion. He'll throw bodies at the problem whereas Caesar is playing the long game on borrowed time.
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May 8, 2018 00:03
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Isn't the independent ending literally just a libertarians wet dream? Not really? The Mojave remains independent, but all of the local societies have their own simple governments. It's not unbridled capitalism.
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May 8, 2018 00:04
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Yeah, I admittedly never quite got the logic of Caesar rolling with Lanius as a successor, unless it was just a thing where no one else in the Legion was possibly going to beat that guy in an inevitable duel to the death for the throne. And he was probably too useful as a killbot for Caesar to chuck him off of a cliff.
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May 8, 2018 01:38
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I think a large reason for sympathy for the Legion stems from the general milieu of most video-game RPG writing. In Fallout 3 and Fallout 2, the Enclave were genocidal for the sake of genocide and their plan would have ended up with everyone dead. In Dragon Age, the darkspawn look like monsters and engage in mindless slaughter without any apparent motivation. Same with Mass Effect and the Reapers, until the last half hour of Mass Effect 3--and that was, well pretty odd. Oblivion and Skyrim have you fighting daedra and dragons as the main antagonists. The Legion commits rape and genocide and has torture and capital punishment as state policy for relatively minor offenses, but they also are good at preventing banditry in their territories and they're trying to impose order rather than just raping and murdering for the fun of it. I guess that's moral ambiguity in the video game landscape, but not really anywhere else.
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May 8, 2018 02:36
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DeathChicken posted:Yeah, I admittedly never quite got the logic of Caesar rolling with Lanius as a successor, unless it was just a thing where no one else in the Legion was possibly going to beat that guy in an inevitable duel to the death for the throne. And he was probably too useful as a killbot for Caesar to chuck him off of a cliff. Caesar doesn't seem to have ever really planned for his death; in classic dictator form, he just does the minimum expected. Also bear in mind it's at least implied there have been a few "Legate Lanius"es- the role was basically to be a military puppet.
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May 8, 2018 02:42
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The main thing is that Caesar wants to keep the Legion dumb. If the Legion was a conclave of free-thought and alternative ideas learned from history they would most likely come to the conclusion that the Legion is a destructive sham. Granted a very effective sham, but nevertheless unrestricted knowledge is a threat to Caesar's idea of what the future of the legion should be. Even if he got his State it would most likely devolve into backdoor political dealings or a coterie of backstabbings after his death. It would end up similar to the NCR where a few people at the top are using citizens as a way to get what they want to stay in power. He's wrestling with the pit dogs he created with his 'teachings,' but he's too prideful to see that no matter what he chooses they'll end up devouring themselves. It's just a matter of sooner rather than later.
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May 8, 2018 05:42
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I just figured Lanius was from an early tribe, looting and pillaging his way to power and status in the Legion. Much like the original Romans.
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May 8, 2018 05:52
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Lanius has contradictory origin stories from several different sources.
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May 8, 2018 06:18
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DeathChicken posted:Yeah, I admittedly never quite got the logic of Caesar rolling with Lanius as a successor, unless it was just a thing where no one else in the Legion was possibly going to beat that guy in an inevitable duel to the death for the throne. And he was probably too useful as a killbot for Caesar to chuck him off of a cliff. I think Lanius is just the best available option left after all the smart people in the legion either became disillusioned with Caesar's brutal leadership style and departed (like Ulysses) or were murdered by Caesar because they were a threat to his reign (like he tried to do with Joshua Graham). Caesar wanted an army that was dumb, loyal, and strong. They were the body, he was the head, which worked out great until his own head turned rotten.
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May 8, 2018 06:20
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Gaining strength through struggle is a pretty integral part of fascism. So when Caesar dies and the Legion collapses into chaos as everyone and their dog fights for power that is actually a good thing because whoever comes out on top must be the best candidate for leadership. You see a version of this way of thinking in the Third Reich where infighting and division were actively encouraged. Like wasn't uncommon for two people or institutions to have the exact same job and responsibilities so they'd have to compete with each other often while being given contradictory orders. Their entire system was set up to let the ruthless succeed which had the downside government was basically just a huge messin a of factions trying to gently caress each other over so they could be the ones to impress Daddy Hitler. Meanwhile Hitler himself slept in every day and ignored any part of of governance that he found boring (everything except war and huge architectural projects).
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May 8, 2018 16:20
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McTimmy posted:Lanius has contradictory origin stories from several different sources. That rules.
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May 8, 2018 16:39
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So I literally just got back from a week in Vegas. Visited some places like Red Rock Canyon and Zion. Holy poo poo.  I think it sort of ruined New Vegas for me a little. Like, I blame the engine, but it's totally incapable of capturing what the real places looked like.
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May 11, 2018 20:07
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FreudianSlippers posted:Gaining strength through struggle is a pretty integral part of fascism. So when Caesar dies and the Legion collapses into chaos as everyone and their dog fights for power that is actually a good thing because whoever comes out on top must be the best candidate for leadership. For a more recent example, see the slow collapse of Sears.
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May 11, 2018 20:24
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Fintilgin posted:So I literally just got back from a week in Vegas. Visited some places like Red Rock Canyon and Zion. Now imagine how big Boston Commons actually is compared to the tiny park and pond in fallout 4
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May 11, 2018 20:58
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Arcsquad12 posted:Now imagine how big Boston Commons actually is compared to the tiny park and pond in fallout 4 Oh, I know. I've spent a lot of time hiking around Mt. Desert island, so Far Harbor was... bemusing. But I'd never been out west or past the Mississippi, so I think it was easier to suspend my disbelief for New Vegas.
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May 12, 2018 02:02
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Fintilgin posted:So I literally just got back from a week in Vegas. Visited some places like Red Rock Canyon and Zion. To be fair I don't think photographs really capture what it's like either. Zion was much more lush irl. It really felt like paradise on earth. If anyone gets the chance I highly recommend it, it's probably my favorite place that I have ever visited. OctaviusBeaver fucked around with this message at 03:48 on May 12, 2018 |
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May 12, 2018 03:44
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OctaviusBeaver posted:To be fair I don't think photographs really capture what it's like either. Zion was much more lush irl. It really felt like paradise on earth. If anyone gets the chance I really recommend it, it's probably my favorite place that I have ever visited. I actually just started a job in the near-ish area (Within 4-5 hours), so I'm definitely going to make a trip within the next few months. I've wanted to visit ever since I learned about the place from Honest Hearts, and I'm really excited to finally have the chance to go.
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May 12, 2018 03:49
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I remember someone saying they couldn't play Honest Hearts anymore because they'd been to Zion and the game couldn't compare to the real life place, and the game director responded saying his aim was to get people to want to visit Zion, so as far as he was concerned that was mission accomplished
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May 12, 2018 03:54
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I dunno, I went to the real Zion and was disappointed by the paltry loot and lack of side quests. Graphics just aren't big on my standards
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May 12, 2018 05:11
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I can't play Honest Hearts cuz it's not very fun and the scripted scene in the beginning is in conflict with my RP in every bethesda game of begining the sole arbiter of life and death.
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May 12, 2018 05:14
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2house2fly posted:I remember someone saying they couldn't play Honest Hearts anymore because they'd been to Zion and the game couldn't compare to the real life place, and the game director responded saying his aim was to get people to want to visit Zion, so as far as he was concerned that was mission accomplished Yeah, I sort of agree. I mean... they both have.... cliffs, but similarities pretty much end there. I never would have guessed they were meant to be the same place if I hadn't been told. I also put it on our list because of those recommendations by ropekid. A day trip was not enough, but it was a day trip or not at all. It was my wife's favorite part of the trip.
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May 12, 2018 05:31
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Caufman posted:I dunno, I went to the real Zion and was disappointed by the paltry loot That's because your Sneak and Lockpick skills were too low.
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May 12, 2018 16:27
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Being forced to take the shuttle bus on the loop made the whole thing kinda feel on rails, honestly.
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May 12, 2018 16:31
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FreudianSlippers posted:Gaining strength through struggle is a pretty integral part of fascism. So when Caesar dies and the Legion collapses into chaos as everyone and their dog fights for power that is actually a good thing because whoever comes out on top must be the best candidate for leadership. I wish I could find the source (or even any online evidence) of that story I heard of the luftwaffe raiding one of the army's trains.
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May 13, 2018 00:32
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Fintilgin posted:So I literally just got back from a week in Vegas. Visited some places like Red Rock Canyon and Zion. On the other hand, you've got Nellis, which genuinely does have stuff like this sitting around in the hallways: 
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May 13, 2018 05:27
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Fintilgin posted:So I literally just got back from a week in Vegas. Visited some places like Red Rock Canyon and Zion. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3439576&userid=27839&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post405359339
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May 14, 2018 05:03
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Fintilgin posted:So I literally just got back from a week in Vegas. Visited some places like Red Rock Canyon and Zion. The natural environments in New Vegas are real bad and no mods I've tried applying have done anything to help. I don't blame Obsidian for that at all tho, they worked with what they had
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May 15, 2018 17:53
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I actually just started a job in the near-ish area (Within 4-5 hours), so I'm definitely going to make a trip within the next few months. I've wanted to visit ever since I learned about the place from Honest Hearts, and I'm really excited to finally have the chance to go. Update: I decided to go 'gently caress it' and took my first free 'weekend' to go. I got here about twenty minutes ago so it's too dark to see poo poo but my God this place is incredible Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:56 on May 16, 2018 |
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May 16, 2018 04:47
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LividLiquid posted:Disagree. I'm mostly talking about the natural environments, particularly Zion, which doesn't even resemble what's in game. Red Rock and Zion were sold to my wife as natural beauties. Minimal jokes were made about video game pilgrimages. I couldn't really justify a trip to Goodsprings, even if it's the Jerusalem of New Vegas pilgrims. Stayed at SLS, and just by chance had a fantastic view of the Lucky 38 out my hotel room window.
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May 16, 2018 05:11
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Update from near the top of Angel's Landing: Oh my God this is loving incredible and gently caress you Sawyer I have never been more terrified in my loving life
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May 16, 2018 16:28
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Update: I decided to go 'gently caress it' and took my first free 'weekend' to go. I recommend Emerald Pool Trail for something moderate and Hidden Canyon Trail if you want something scary. Angel's Landing was just terrifying, never again. fake edit: too late e2: and the narrows obviously, but watch out for bear traps
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May 16, 2018 16:43
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We remember Zion indeed.
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May 16, 2018 17:55
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