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guts and bolts posted:Our Whisper/Fel/Sai lists are superficially similar but probably play fairly differently, so that's neat I think the best Decimator is still going to be RAC, but with Minister Tua on board for the free start of engagement Reinforce action. You can get lock + reinforce every round with that setup.
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Sep 4, 2018 04:39
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Best Decimator is two decimators.
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Sep 4, 2018 04:57
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Some Numbers posted:What's with the names? Soontir Fel Hates Dee Yun? Stupid Podcast Bullshit™ I've tried one list successfully online thus far: Rexler/Juke, Howl./Swarm Tactics, Del/Swarm Tactics, Syen/Marksmanship. It was pretty nice.
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Sep 4, 2018 07:52
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thespaceinvader posted:I've tried one list successfully online thus far: Rexler/Juke, Howl./Swarm Tactics, Del/Swarm Tactics, Syen/Marksmanship. Oh drat I like
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Sep 4, 2018 08:19
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Don't forget the 2 point Hull Upgrade on your Deci. I put RAC/Tua on the table last week, my opponents Rexler gave it a Fuel Leak and flipped up a Hull Breach, and then his other ship got 3 hits, and through a hilarious cascade failure of Fuel Leaks and Direct Hits did another 8 damage. Went from 3 damage cards and 10 hull remaining to dead in 2 shots, it was amazing.
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Sep 4, 2018 08:26
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Raged posted:Oh drat Oh and Rexler has COllision Detector It is pretty nice, I like the combos, though in the one game I played they never actually took place; I overkilled both ships I killed significantly, so I never got the defence benefit from Del or the card flipping from Rex. I'll try it once or twice in person then move on and try something else, I really wanna be a bit varied with 2e, there's so much interesting stuff to try.
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Sep 4, 2018 08:27
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Bear Is Driving posted:Don't forget the 2 point Hull Upgrade on your Deci. I think Marrak Steele in the advanced is going to be amazing because you can choose cascades like this. Edit: Assuming you have some way to keep his action economy up, that is. He's pretty fragile when all he's got is a single focus. Coordinate helps, and there might be some new cards in the future that help him. I'd personally staple Debris Gambit to him and run him near a Lambda so he can at least get focus/evade. ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 13:28
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Looking at the lists I have built or copied is pretty funny. I have 2 Rebel lists saved 3 Scum lists and 12 Imp lists. How the times have changed. I reaaaaaaaallly like this "Redline" (44) Trajectory Simulator (3) Proton Torpedoes (9) Proton Bombs (5) "Deathrain" (42) Trajectory Simulator (3) Barrage Rockets (6) Seismic Charges (3) Proton Bombs (5) Ablative Plating (4) "Whisper" Hates Dee Yun (52) Juke (4) Darth Vader (14) Stealth Device (*) Total: 200 View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0
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Sep 4, 2018 21:33
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I played a couple of games with that Sai/Soontir/Whisper list, and I like it's potential. I had Krennic and Tarkin on the shuttle. I struggled with remembering to use all the abilities and when they triggered, but I think once I get the hang of it and how to fly it, I'll do a lot better.
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Sep 5, 2018 02:30
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Funzo posted:I played a couple of games with that Sai/Soontir/Whisper list, and I like it's potential. I had Krennic and Tarkin on the shuttle. I struggled with remembering to use all the abilities and when they triggered, but I think once I get the hang of it and how to fly it, I'll do a lot better. Which version of the list? Vader on Whisper, I'm assuming? I'm into it. That's my jam/list. Tarkin makes a really cool alternative to Sloane, but I think Sloane is crazy-good considering how often stress gets tossed out - those re-rolls are great when you get them, and it makes shooting at your aces scary. If you stick with Tarkin let me know how it goes. Tonight I brought: "Whisper" Hates Dee Yun (52) Juke (4) Darth Vader (14) Soontir Fel Hates Dee Yun (52) Juke (4) Lieutenant Sai (47) Director Krennic (5) Admiral Sloane (10) ST-321 (6) Total: 194 View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0 I played a couple games. Game 1: vs. Kavil/Jostero/Torkil/Quadjumper generic I don't remember the rest of his upgrades, but the Quadjumper was running Vizago crew and Static Discharge Vanes with a Cloaking Device, and HWK had a Feedback Array and title; he swapped the Array to the HWK after he got his cloak token on the Quadjumper, and just used it to roll around and ionize people with the vanes and deal damage with the array. There was a Kavil with a Dorsal Turret and... I forget everything else. The gist of it was that he could get the cloak on two different guys or more, I think, and Torkil got to drop someone to initiative 0 during shooting phase in a huge area because of his primary-forward and primary-turret firing arcs, which was neat. In practice, what happened was that he went all in on the shuttle very early. Some clumsy flying resulted in my poor Lt. Sai getting opened up on extremely hard a turn before I was ready, so Krennic didn't actually get to do anything (Sloane was helpful, though) before he exploded in a fiery wreck. He traded Kavil and most of Torkil to get him, though, so I was okay with Soontir and Whisper versus a Quadjumper and Jostero. Soontir wound up almost dying, but Whisper went untouched, and I cleaned up the board thereafter with little trouble. 200-96 Game 2: vs. Lambda generic/Howlrunner/Iden/Del/Seyn I made the list for my opponent because they wanted named TIEs doing nasty stuff. I think Soontir might be better - it's four naked TIEs plus a shuttle with Sloane on it - but it is what it is. Not a super-serious game. Krennic was useful in this game, which was neat; I didn't lose any ships, though the shuttle half-died. Like in game 1 I tried to create little corridors in the asteroids for my shuttle to truck through while the aces darted about, and that worked well in this game, too. Whisper and Fel went untouched, and I gotta say, Whisper with Juke and Vader is worth their weight in gold. I destroyed the shuttle first to prevent Sloane from making my life super hard, but the TIEs just couldn't keep Whisper in arc, and by the time they turned to blow up my shuttle it was way too late. 200-34 My thoughts are... that this list is very, very good. Juke feels very awesome at initiative 5-6, and what do you know, Whisper and Fel are both there. Vader crew is ruinous. When Krennic is doing his thing it turns Fel from annoying to nightmarish. The key to flying Fel is to mostly not worry about if what he's shooting is in bullseye, just that something is in bullseye if you know you're going to be in an arc. The action economy that Sai gives you is unreal. It's only 3 ships, but the TIEs stood zero chance against Whisper; Fel could honestly have flown back to Narnia and I would have had no trouble destroying them all. Having played against a couple 4+ TIE lists I think the magic number is either 6 or 8; fewer than that and I'm not sure you have the critical mass to beat aces, and cover the whole board, and blah blah. I've narrowed down the lists I want to practice considerably as a result, to just 3 - double Defenders, Whisper/Fel/Sai, and Luke/Wedge/Norra.
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Sep 5, 2018 03:30
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The scum Drea swarm seems really good, I'm wondering if trading a quad and a Z to for Palob would still be good. Stealing green tokens is such a drag and the jam action could be very clutch. Also I really like Palob. Edit: actually, putting in ion/naked Serrisu could also be really annoying.
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Sep 5, 2018 03:46
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I’m going to laugh and the probably cry a little if all of our theory crafting and practice goes out the window due to a day 1 faq and point change on everything.
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Sep 5, 2018 05:23
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Raged posted:I’m going to laugh and the probably cry a little if all of our theory crafting and practice goes out the window due to a day 1 faq and point change on everything. Pretty optimistic thinking, this is still FFG here.
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Sep 5, 2018 09:48
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Who gets to choose which damage card is exposed with Optimized Prototype/Rexlar Brath/Zertik Strom?
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Sep 5, 2018 12:22
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EnjoiThePureTrip posted:Who gets to choose which damage card is exposed with Optimized Prototype/Rexlar Brath/Zertik Strom? It's chosen randomly.
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Sep 5, 2018 12:37
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The event page is up for Aussie Nationals 24-25 Nov Not wave limited thank god https://www.facebook.com/events/693666097660195/permalink/693684654325006/?notif_t=event_mall_reply¬if_id=1536148360671971 Bear Is Driving posted:It's chosen randomly. Make your opponent shuffle them if there are multiple then pick.
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Sep 5, 2018 13:01
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guts and bolts posted:Which version of the list? Vader on Whisper, I'm assuming? I'm into it. That's my jam/list. Tarkin makes a really cool alternative to Sloane, but I think Sloane is crazy-good considering how often stress gets tossed out - those re-rolls are great when you get them, and it makes shooting at your aces scary. If you stick with Tarkin let me know how it goes. Mine was the same as yours, except I had Tarkin instead of Sloane.
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Sep 5, 2018 14:17
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Raged posted:I’m going to laugh and the probably cry a little if all of our theory crafting and practice goes out the window due to a day 1 faq and point change on everything. While it's unlikely this happens, it isn't impossible; still, logic dictates that most of the stuff in Whisper/Fel/Sai is not high on the priority list for points adjustment, especially since it doesn't appear to be very highly touted yet. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all. Expect Bombers and ordnance to get a points nerf and possibly Supernatural Reflexes, but of the Whisper/Fel/Sai stuff maybe only Vader crew could be subjected to a points increase? Maybe Whisper themselves, but it'd have to be handled gently. What's more, there are plenty of lists where a points increase doesn't sink the list, only depletes the bid. Let's say Supernatural Reflexes gets hit with an increase. Makes sense; that upgrade is crazy awesome. At what point is it prohibitively expensive? Like... 25 points? I don't think they're going to more than double it. If Supernatural goes from 12 to 18 points, you can actually just slot it into most existing Luke/Wedge/Norra lists without changing anything - you only lose the bid. Swap Wedge out of the list at that point and you can either get the bid back or have a list that worries about bid less. The same will apply for stuff like Vader crew - if Vader and Whisper got a points nerf that amounted to less than a 16-point increase between the two of them, not a lot would change. You'd drop an awesome crew in Sloane, keep Vader crew, and keep Whisper, and you'd be a slightly worse version of basically the exact same list, and that's assuming a massive nerf were to take place. If anything I'm expecting buffs before anything gets made worse or more expensive, and I'd also expect those buffs to roll out post-release of the fourth and fifth factions. Knowing FFG, this is likely a what you see is what you get scenario, so I'd feel safe running these lists for a while at least. Funzo posted:Mine was the same as yours, except I had Tarkin instead of Sloane. Did you grab it from the goon list sheet or arrive at this list on your own? I'm asking because I'm wondering exactly how commonplace a variant on this list is going to be. Also: Tarkin was what I originally wanted to run with, and I included FCS on Whisper to boot, which brings the list to 197 and a dangerous bid if you're super-concerned about Soontir. There are some other variations I've toyed with, like a TAP with Grand Inquisitor and Supernatural Reflexes instead of Fel, but I'm going to try to make Soontir work first. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 16:36
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I expect big ships will get a price reduction. No one really seems impressed with them enough to play more than 1 or 2 test games. Palp shuttle obv will always be a staple but besides that scum falcon seems to the only semi popular option and Dash, while scary on paper, is such a point hog he hemorrhages 60-70 points if you even look his way and has extremely limited wingman options. The fly off the board YV666 looks interesting but scum seems so meh to me I really dont feel like getting their conversion box. Maybe people are just focused on the swarm return though and once they realize they don't want to have to fly a swarm 10+ hours at a tournament the lazy big ship lists will return
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Sep 5, 2018 20:20
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guts and bolts posted:Did you grab it from the goon list sheet or arrive at this list on your own? I'm asking because I'm wondering exactly how commonplace a variant on this list is going to be. Also: Tarkin was what I originally wanted to run with, and I included FCS on Whisper to boot, which brings the list to 197 and a dangerous bid if you're super-concerned about Soontir. There are some other variations I've toyed with, like a TAP with Grand Inquisitor and Supernatural Reflexes instead of Fel, but I'm going to try to make Soontir work first. I got it from the discussion here. Both of the games I played with it, the bid was important, so I'm hesitant to add more. The first game my opponent had Fenn, and the Second had scum Han.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:23
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banned from Starbucks posted:I expect big ships will get a price reduction. No one really seems impressed with them enough to play more than 1 or 2 test games. Palp shuttle obv will always be a staple but besides that scum falcon seems to the only semi popular option and Dash, while scary on paper, is such a point hog he hemorrhages 60-70 points if you even look his way and has extremely limited wingman options. The fly off the board YV666 looks interesting but scum seems so meh to me I really dont feel like getting their conversion box. I honestly think that Palp has been displaced as the Numero Uno crew option available to Empire, if only because he eats two slots. You can't use him on anything except a shuttle, and then you'd have to justify using Palpatine over Krennic and someone else, which is a tough ask. I think it will come down to a points thing, ultimately - and Palp also synergizes well with Grand Inquisitor, who is absolutely an amazing ship. I get what you're saying, though - Lambda seems viable, Rebel Falcon and Decimator extremely do not. I agree that I think you'll see the bowtie large bases get a price reduction so you can pair them up with more dangerous allies to shore up their weaknesses more effectively. Funzo posted:I got it from the discussion here. Both of the games I played with it, the bid was important, so I'm hesitant to add more. The first game my opponent had Fenn, and the Second had scum Han. I agree - the Whisper/Fel/Sai list I run has a bid of 194 which seems about right. If 7+ point bids become common on non-Vader pilot lists, I'll probably start ignoring bidding, swap Fel out for Inquisitor, and fiddle from there.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:50
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banned from Starbucks posted:I expect big ships will get a price reduction. No one really seems impressed with them enough to play more than 1 or 2 test games. I would hope big ships don't get a reduction because, with more upgrade slots, big ships do generally climb faster (in some cases jumping dramatically) up the power curve as the available upgrade pool increases. So it makes sense for them to start 2.0s life cycle underpowered.
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Sep 6, 2018 04:46
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One week till I have to spend a whole day organising 3 conversion kits worth of cards and dials!
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Sep 6, 2018 04:52
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Raged posted:One week till I have to spend a whole day organising 3 conversion kits worth of cards and dials! I’m mad cause I forgot when it was comin out. I’m leavin on a weekend trip and then now I have a work trip immediately after so I won’t get back for a week after 
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Sep 6, 2018 08:53
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guts and bolts posted:Tonight I brought: Played this tonight and drat after 3 games my head was swimming trying to remember all the triggers. It was more exhausting than a swarm. I completely forgot to use the Coordinate to soontir - thrusters off that, do a green, do 2 more actions thing. I think Sloane might be the weakest link (at least for me. Im gonna try Ciena) Whats your deployment like? I think im gonna castle Whisper and Sai together with soontir in the opposite corner. Whisper seems to need the Coordinate babysitting more and without the initial castle Sai risks bad engagements. I wanna try it again for sure it def has potential although I really fear high HP generic swarms.
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Sep 6, 2018 10:43
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banned from Starbucks posted:Played this tonight and drat after 3 games my head was swimming trying to remember all the triggers. It was more exhausting than a swarm. I completely forgot to use the Coordinate to soontir - thrusters off that, do a green, do 2 more actions thing. I think Sloane might be the weakest link (at least for me. Im gonna try Ciena) Whats your deployment like? I think im gonna castle Whisper and Sai together with soontir in the opposite corner. Whisper seems to need the Coordinate babysitting more and without the initial castle Sai risks bad engagements. I wanna try it again for sure it def has potential although I really fear high HP generic swarms. Sloan isn't working well for me and I am kind of leaning towards Tua and maybe a 9 point bid
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Sep 6, 2018 11:13
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Welp I finally put away all my 1e stuff. Anyone want to buy any alt-arts?
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Sep 6, 2018 14:29
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banned from Starbucks posted:Played this tonight and drat after 3 games my head was swimming trying to remember all the triggers. It was more exhausting than a swarm. I completely forgot to use the Coordinate to soontir - thrusters off that, do a green, do 2 more actions thing. I think Sloane might be the weakest link (at least for me. Im gonna try Ciena) Whats your deployment like? I think im gonna castle Whisper and Sai together with soontir in the opposite corner. Whisper seems to need the Coordinate babysitting more and without the initial castle Sai risks bad engagements. I wanna try it again for sure it def has potential although I really fear high HP generic swarms. This was my problem too. It was just a lot to keep track of. I forgot about using the Optimised Prototype ability several times, and I didn't even realize Soontir could do two actions off the coordinate with Autothrusters.
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Sep 6, 2018 17:39
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banned from Starbucks posted:Played this tonight and drat after 3 games my head was swimming trying to remember all the triggers. It was more exhausting than a swarm. I completely forgot to use the Coordinate to soontir - thrusters off that, do a green, do 2 more actions thing. I think Sloane might be the weakest link (at least for me. Im gonna try Ciena) Whats your deployment like? I think im gonna castle Whisper and Sai together with soontir in the opposite corner. Whisper seems to need the Coordinate babysitting more and without the initial castle Sai risks bad engagements. I wanna try it again for sure it def has potential although I really fear high HP generic swarms. Generic swarms versus Whisper is a really, really bad matchup for them, I feel. You'll definitely lose the shuttle, but the threat of the decloak->1turn makes dealing with Whisper a nightmare matchup unless Whisp can get PS killed, which doesn't happen in 6+ ship lists, largely. I think deployment is up to personal taste, but I drop rocks to make clean avenues for the shuttle to drive through and I set up so that Whisper is virtually right beside the shuttle instead of straight fortressing, while Fel is about a straight 4 template to whichever side makes more sense. After a few rounds of activation I tend to have a sort of spoke-and-wheel attack pattern going on, with the shuttle as the center of a tire and Fel and Whisper orbiting around him within range 2-3, often pincering problem targets. You want Fel to be close enough to trigger his insane re-positioning shenanigans off of Sai's Coordinate, or at least threaten the opponent that you could do that, which tends to result in either a) they respect that option and sell out harder to try to catch an ace in arc, or b) they decide that predicting Whisper and Fel with action economy is a fool's errand and all-in the shuttle. Selling out hard enough to keep Whisper and/or Fel in an arc is very difficult since one has cloak and one is at i6, so I've found that option B is what most players attempt. I usually begin games with Fel hitting the gas. The goal here is to get your free target lock sooner rather than later, but if Fel has to promptly peace out because of how your opponent moved, no worries. He's very capable of pretending like he's coming in on you and then deciding that no, he is not, and chasing him around usually makes for short games where Whisper destroys 150+ points worth of stuff. They key is knowing how to trade effectively, and what to trade for. This will obviously vary based on the lists you're competing against, but if they're going to all-in the shuttle with any list worth its salt, you will probably lose it in three or fewer rounds of shooting. Plan for two in most cases, and dial in accordingly. If he gets your shuttle, you get his Norra and some of Wedge, or two valuable TIEs, or Fenn Rau, or whatever. Sloane is in the list because she makes going after an ace direly unappealing, and makes it a scarier proposition to ever make red maneuvers or do linked actions unless you're absolutely sure that your ship isn't getting shot by anyone, which is far easier said than done. A lot of problem pilots who can make life harder for Whisper really like linked actions in particular, and Sloane can get them to think twice about doing them. The list's weaknesses are basically anyone who can make Whisper's life hell. It's a short list of ships, but i5 (if you are first player) or i6 mans with maneuverability present serious problems, because they can react to the decloak much more effectively. The amount of HP the enemy brought is less relevant than you might think owing to the sheer amount of "free" damage in the list (Vader crew and Optimized Prototype) and the fact that all three ships can hurt you pretty bad, but this list straight up does not fight well against higher-initiative aces with re-positioning if they can burn down Whisper. Super Luke, Super Vader, Super Grand Quiz, Fel, Boba, Fenn, Guri etc. are all problems of varying degrees of concern. If you lose the shuttle and don't trade effectively when doing so, you instantly have a hill to climb that sometimes turns insurmountable. Defensively, you have to arc-dodge like crazy - Sloane, Vader, and Krennic all provide a good amount of blanked-reds insurance, but if you blank greens you basically just die, although Whisper usually having 2 Evade tokens and Fel having 1 mitigates that... slightly. Raged posted:Sloan isn't working well for me and I am kind of leaning towards Tua and maybe a 9 point bid I personally dig Sloane a lot, but I totally get it if others don't. I just think she adds the maximum amount of insurance to the list. You have a ton of options to personalize this list - you could upgrade from Fel to Super Quiz and omit Sloane entirely, maybe downgrade from Sai to OGP in the process; or you can swap Sloane for Tua, Tarkin, or Ciena Ree; you can add a Shield Upgrade to Whisper if bids somehow mysteriously don't matter in your local meta; you can shuffle around who has Vader and who has Krennic crew between your shuttle and Whisper; there's a bunch of stuff that is worth iterating, and I'm around 90-100% sure that what I'm running isn't the "best" version of the list, if such a distinction even exists. I just thought it was a powerful archetype and wanted to share it/talk about it. Funzo posted:This was my problem too. It was just a lot to keep track of. I forgot about using the Optimised Prototype ability several times, and I didn't even realize Soontir could do two actions off the coordinate with Autothrusters. So the order of operations in a standard mid-game turn is as follows (my apologies if everyone else grasps this, I usually write a short-hand version of this on my hand):
guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Sep 6, 2018 |
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Sep 6, 2018 18:05
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I just wanted to say that I usually read this thread on a phone in such a way that avs/usernames are offscreen, but a couple days ago I read a post and without even looking knew it must be ol’ Guts n Bolts returned to us from afar
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Sep 6, 2018 19:33
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Yeah, against swarms I usually try to pincer with the shuttle barreling right down the middle towards the swarm with the aces flanking. If they joust the shuttle, I'll lose it, sure. But before it dies, I'll be able to park it somewhere that (for low PS swarms) blocks their K-Turn or (for high PS named swarms) blocks them. Either way it forces them to turn away or fucks up the formation. And once the formation is busted, things get way easier.
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Sep 6, 2018 19:38
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General Battuta posted:I just wanted to say that I usually read this thread on a phone in such a way that avs/usernames are offscreen, but a couple days ago I read a post and without even looking knew it must be ol’ Guts n Bolts returned to us from afar I hope that's good? But I'm guessing it probably isn't
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Sep 6, 2018 20:18
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Exhausting walls of text ruminating how to optimize one particular list archetype for competitive play for a game that isn't even out yet? It's not hard to tell.
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Sep 6, 2018 21:21
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It's me. I'm the annoying person that actually likes his posts.
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Sep 6, 2018 21:32
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I like them to. Definitely has changed my mind on a few things.
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Sep 6, 2018 21:34
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Strobe posted:Exhausting walls of text ruminating how to optimize one particular list archetype for competitive play for a game that isn't even out yet? It's not hard to tell. In what way would you suggest better posting? Posting lists and how they work and seeing what you all have cooked up is kind of the main reason I imagine threads like this exist. I'm not asking rhetorically, I'm genuinely curious why you're so irritable. You're the same guy who flipped out because I used "POW," so if it's just a personal problem you have then I can't do much about that. Either way I think this hatchet is better off buried. Finster Dexter posted:It's me. I'm the annoying person that actually likes his posts. Raged posted:I like them to. Definitely has changed my mind on a few things. Thanks; that actually means a lot. I like having these discussions about the game, and honestly if people are workshopping/iterating lists similar to the one I'm using, I get to selfishly use that as a resource to improve my squad. The feedback I get in here is usually valuable, so thanks. I mean it.
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Sep 6, 2018 21:46
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guts, you keep on being you. I like it, too. 
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Sep 6, 2018 22:09
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Finster Dexter posted:It's me. I'm the annoying person that actually likes his posts. Same. I enjoyed reading it
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Sep 6, 2018 22:12
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ConfusedUs posted:guts, you keep on being you. I like it, too. banned from Starbucks posted:Same. I enjoyed reading it Thanks, guys. 
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Sep 6, 2018 22:17
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That turn breakdown was really helpful actually. I struggled with which actions to take for each ship, so laying it all out is really good.
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Sep 6, 2018 22:20
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