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NotJustANumber99 posted:Whys that? And by 'at this point' do you mean revocation is now less desirable than it once was or that you can see it being more desirable in the future? Unilateral revocation by Parliament would be the biggest gift fascism has ever been given in this country.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:11
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learnincurve posted:My favourite part of today was the conservative party chief whip saying he was going to vote for a second referendum. I like when Soubry's speech got cut off because they ran out of time, and it wouldn't have happened if she hadn't kept butting in on everyone else's speeches
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Apr 1, 2019 20:11
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marktheando posted:Oh the MP for Carlisle is one of those Scottish Tories who couldn't get elected north of the border, and he is unhinged. Yeah he's shite but at least we're slightly better off than Penrith and the Border who elected Rory the Tory - a full on swivel-eyed loon that has managed to claw his way to near relevance by being about the only person in existence prepared to brown-nose Theresa May
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Apr 1, 2019 20:12
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Has anyone thought about asking EFTA if the UK can join, because they were pretty cold on the idea back in the Cameron days. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/09/norway-may-block-uk-return-to-european-free-trade-association quote:Norway could block any UK attempt to rejoin the European Free Trade Association, the small club of nations that has access to the European single market without being part of the EU.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:13
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ThomasPaine posted:lol customs union is going to be a nail biter Voting to allow prices to increase by X% basically.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:15
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Gunder posted:That’s what I’m coming around to. Excellent cat
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Apr 1, 2019 20:16
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keep punching joe posted:Has anyone thought about asking EFTA if the UK can join, because they were pretty cold on the idea back in the Cameron days. I've heard the opinion that we've never actually left the EFTA and EEA so Norway can, in the words of international law, loving jog on.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:16
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StarkingBarfish posted:Kenspreading 
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Apr 1, 2019 20:18
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Apr 1, 2019 20:18
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I've heard the opinion that we've never actually left the EFTA and EEA so Norway can, in the words of international law, loving jog on. that's dumb even in the brexit context seriously who the gently caress thinks rules lawyering international law might work
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Apr 1, 2019 20:23
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I'm so loving sick of this 52% / 17.4 million stat being handed over to hard brexit. Most of the leavers I know thought there was going to be a norway+ or whatever and a lot of the Leave campaign's propaganda was about the great deal we'd force the EU into. Like I said in the last thread, the largest united voting bloc was remain. Whatever your reasons for wanting to remain, they're achievable by not leaving. Leave voters voted for leave with no deal, or leave with some kind of deal. Those two positions are not achievable concurrently so should not be regarded as one voting bloc. So even if we ignore the many subdivisions of types of deal and pretend the leave vote can be split 50/50, that still means the vote would be split 48% remain, 26% deal and 26% no deal. Even being extremely generous to hard brexiters only gives them a quarter of the vote. In all likelihood the referendum was fixed to inflate the leave vote and embolden a very vocal and passionate minority. I just hate that even seasoned MPs are going around thinking that just over half the country ever supported the insanity of no deal brexit. This is why if the final referendum ends up being remain / deal / no deal, we'll finally see how small the no deal bloc is. Caveat: stupidest timeline etc. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 1, 2019 |
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Apr 1, 2019 20:23
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:that's dumb even in the brexit context I know a Very Smart Person who thinks we can immediately and unilaterally "reactivate" all the treaties and trade agreements we had back in nineteen loving seventy before we joined the EU, under the exact same terms as were in force at that time. The last fifty years just don't seem to have passed for a lot of these dipshit morons.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:25
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If this happens what the gently caress now? I know "gently caress Knows" is the mantra, but so far gently caress knows has at least been a gently caress knows what the MPs will agree to. Now it is "gently caress knows what else can be done?"
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Apr 1, 2019 20:25
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no deal shoudl never be on a referendum
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Apr 1, 2019 20:25
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I've heard the opinion that we've never actually left the EFTA and EEA so Norway can, in the words of international law, loving jog on. Pretty sure all the countries that joined the EU that were members of the EFTA explicitly left it at the same time.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:26
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marktheando posted:Does customs union include freedom of movement or not? I'm confused A customs union is basically an agreement between countries where they unify their customs policies. They all apply the same tariffs, regulatory checks etc to stuff coming in from outside the union, and because you have that alignment on all the goods inside the union, you can eliminate customs checks between union members. It's not always perfectly streamlined like that, but I think that's usually because of the customs union covering some goods and not others - Turkey's customs union with the EU excludes some things (which technically count as coming from a third country and need to be checked as usual) and they have significant delays on stuff crossing the Turkey-EU border That tariff and regulatory alignment makes the customs union a single trade entity - no country can offer lower tariffs or standards to attract trade, they all have to be equal, and because of that consistency goods can move easily once they're inside the union (which just-in-time procurement relies on). This is basically why it limits countries' ability to strike their own trade deals - anything covered by the customs union has rules they have to stick to The single market is an umbrella that includes this trade element, plus other stuff like freedom of movement
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Apr 1, 2019 20:27
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Unilateral revocation by Parliament would be the biggest gift fascism has ever been given in this country. Ehh I think going through with Brexit would be worse since people would be directly suffering and blaming the EU, remainers and foreigners for Brexit not being great.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:27
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Sex Robot posted:If this happens what the gently caress now? I know "gently caress Knows" is the mantra, but so far gently caress knows has at least been a gently caress knows what the MPs will agree to. Now it is "gently caress knows what else can be done?" may brings back her deal again even if they pass, none of these votes are binding.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:27
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keep punching joe posted:No What's the difference between Common Market 2.0 and Single Market/Customs Union?
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Apr 1, 2019 20:27
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Jose posted:no deal shoudl never be on a referendum OK, but what if No Deal is the only option on the referendum instead?
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Apr 1, 2019 20:28
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That clock has seen some things today.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:28
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:that's dumb even in the brexit context *Jolyoning intensifies*
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Apr 1, 2019 20:29
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https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1112798307569422336 When you abstain on the only options likely to get a majority and moan about how the result might be inconclusive.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:30
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UnlimitedSpessmans posted:may brings back her deal again even if they pass, none of these votes are binding. Right now, some consensus on something, anything would be worth it's weight in gold. Edit: I've turned off parliament TV, I legit can't care to hear that poo poo live.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:30
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There's still Wednesday anyway.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:30
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baka kaba posted:A customs union is basically an agreement between countries where they unify their customs policies. They all apply the same tariffs, regulatory checks etc to stuff coming in from outside the union, and because you have that alignment on all the goods inside the union, you can eliminate customs checks between union members. It's not always perfectly streamlined like that, but I think that's usually because of the customs union covering some goods and not others - Turkey's customs union with the EU excludes some things (which technically count as coming from a third country and need to be checked as usual) and they have significant delays on stuff crossing the Turkey-EU border Right, so it's the Turkey option. Bobby Deluxe posted:I just hate that even seasoned MPs are going around thinking that just over half the country ever supported the insanity of no deal brexit. Or the related take that everyone who voted for Labour or the Tories supports No Deal since they voted for article 50 and had pro brexit manifestos.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:31
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marktheando posted:Ehh I think going through with Brexit would be worse since people would be directly suffering and blaming the EU, remainers and foreigners for Brexit not being great. Ironically I think no deal would be the worst thing for fascism, give them what they want and let it gently caress them over, but who knows? Right now it feels like everything we do makes them stronger because that's where 40 years of almost unopposed neoliberal bullshit gets you.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:31
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Unilateral revocation by Parliament would be the biggest gift fascism has ever been given in this country. The 2015 General Election was the biggest gift fascism could ever be given in this country, because it put the fascists in power.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:31
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forkboy84 posted:OK, but what if No Deal is the only option on the referendum instead? Option B: Don't not leave the EU without a deal. goddamnedtwisto posted:Ironically I think no deal would be the worst thing for fascism, give them what they want and let it gently caress them over, but who knows? Fascists are not famed for their long-term planning. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 1, 2019 |
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Apr 1, 2019 20:32
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uncleTomOfFinland posted:Pretty sure all the countries that joined the EU that were members of the EFTA explicitly left it at the same time. Just going by what was said a couple of times in the debate. Votes are in. e: No they're not, just saw Bercow but should have realised the chamber was still basically empty.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:32
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Kreez posted:What's the difference between Common Market 2.0 and Single Market/Customs Union? gently caress knows, I thought they were the same? 
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Apr 1, 2019 20:32
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lol at Jedit's avatar
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Apr 1, 2019 20:33
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Kreez posted:What's the difference between Common Market 2.0 and Single Market/Customs Union? Single Market means freedom of movement, I think?
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Apr 1, 2019 20:34
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Single Market means freedom of movement, I think? Single market is Norway, customs union is Turkey.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:35
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Single Market means freedom of movement, I think? The EU won’t allow Common Market 2.0 without freedom of movement lol We’d probably still have to pay them too Do it!!! Do it you cowards!
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Apr 1, 2019 20:36
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marktheando posted:Single market is Norway, customs union is Turkey. Right, but what's the difference between Common Market 2.0 (which is back to EFTA/EEA, which includes freedom of movement surely?) and Customs Union + Single Market (which is Labour's plan)
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Apr 1, 2019 20:37
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Kreez posted:Right, but what's the difference between Common Market 2.0 (which is back to EFTA/EEA, which includes freedom of movement) and Customs Union + Single Market (which is Labour's plan) It doesn’t include the poisonous words in its name.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:38
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Ironically I think no deal would be the worst thing for fascism, give them what they want and let it gently caress them over, but who knows? Right now it feels like everything we do makes them stronger because that's where 40 years of almost unopposed neoliberal bullshit gets you. I mean yeah, you'd think ruling on the smoldering ashes of a post no-brexit UK would be difficult, but otoh Lord Humongous didn't seem to care.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:38
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marktheando posted:lol at Jedit's avatar
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Apr 1, 2019 20:38
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It would probably be better just to stay in the EU.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:38
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