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Dimitris
Apr 11, 2017

by Fluffdaddy

Top Hats Monthly posted:

I have no grog wish bigger than a modern geopolitical sim that wasn't absolute dick and balls

Shadow President ?

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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

COOL CORN posted:

Except you need practically a Juris Doctorate to comprehend the beach landing and (God help you) cave rules.

In general though I'm with you

Pfff, I bet I could figure it out within at least 2 months of initially reading the rule!

Dimitris
Apr 11, 2017

by Fluffdaddy
Command: Modern Operations - Print manual now available: http://www.matrixgames.com/amazon/PDF/CMO/CMO_manual_EBOOK.pdf

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT

Dimitris posted:

Shadow President ?

I mean that came out in what, 1991?

Count Thrashula
Jun 1, 2003

Death is nothing compared to vindication.
Buglord
Dimitris I need that CMO...

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

Top Hats Monthly posted:

I mean that came out in what, 1991?

I always enjoyed breaking that game by playing as the United States and invading Canada on the first day, which would cause the game to immediately crash.

I mean, seriously? If I were in charge of that QA team that’s the first scenario I would test. Obviously.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:



Does Shadow President actually ever go anywhere? I remember it being so godawful slow that I basically never got past the Gulf War starting.

iirc it's supposed to have some kind of actual order of fictional events after that, or something?

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

COOL CORN posted:

Dimitris I need that CMO...

7 days - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1076160/Command_Modern_Operations/

Also, it appears that TacView Standard + Advanced DLC is slightly cheaper than just buying the Advanced version. Check out the bundle;

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1177050/Tacview_Advanced/

Hav fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Nov 6, 2019

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

Drone posted:

Does Shadow President actually ever go anywhere? I remember it being so godawful slow that I basically never got past the Gulf War starting.

iirc it's supposed to have some kind of actual order of fictional events after that, or something?

I used to run it on my super gaming PC—a 486DX—and it being slow as poo poo. To be honest though, it’s been so long since I played it all I really remember is crashing the game by invading “unlikely” countries. Like Canada and Mexico—Mexico at least took a couple turns to crash the game.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Drone posted:

Does Shadow President actually ever go anywhere? I remember it being so godawful slow that I basically never got past the Gulf War starting.

iirc it's supposed to have some kind of actual order of fictional events after that, or something?

You're expected to have to maintain a decent public approval rating so that you can win re-election, and then the rest of the countries are doing their own thing, Paradox-style (albeit I imagine much more primitively), so that there's emergent behavior that you need to react to.

The "Shadow President" mode of the game makes it so that one of your advisors is secretly plotting to betray you, and you're supposed to have to ferret them out, on top of playing with/against the rest of the world as in the "normal" mode.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012




So if you hit a squad of infantry with a flamethrower in AB the dead are charred instead of generic dead bodies. Was hilarious to watch the pixelflames shoot out and char some mechinf.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

oh cool, unity of command 2 is launching next week. that crept up on me, after over four years of following dev blogs.

Chuck_D
Aug 25, 2003
Goddamnit. I've been playing Silent Hunter 4 since launch (12˝ years ago for those of you keeping track at home) and for maybe the 2nd time ever, I came across a Japanese carrier task force.

I was completely out of torpedoes. :saddowns:

Chuck_D fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Nov 10, 2019

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
if I'm reinstalling SH4 on Steam, which game should I pick? The vanilla game and the U Boat Operations xpack are two different entries

Chuck_D
Aug 25, 2003
Only Wolves of the Pacific (the U-boats-in-the-pacific-expansion). If you want to use any mods, that's the version you need and it has all the fleet boat stuff too.

Dimitris
Apr 11, 2017

by Fluffdaddy
Kushan did a preview stream on CMO last night: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/506108414 . We had some good fun.

Hippocrass
Aug 18, 2015

That third panel of the first comic just makes it. It's still funny if you remove it, but that panel included just makes it top tier.
Can anyone recommend a good tutorial for Armored Brigade?

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Gewehr 43 posted:

Goddamnit. I've been playing Silent Hunter 4 since launch (12˝ years ago for those of you keeping track at home) and for maybe the 2nd time ever, I came across a Japanese carrier task force.

I was completely out of torpedoes. :saddowns:

I've run into Kido Butai once. Missed/duds with 6 torpedoes.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

mllaneza posted:

I've run into Kido Butai once. Missed/duds with 6 torpedoes.

I've seen it twice, the second time I missed my primary target with 4 fish and then hit two other carriers with 2 each.

Still not 100% sure how it happened...

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Hippocrass posted:

Can anyone recommend a good tutorial for Armored Brigade?

I made up a mock field manual that's a kind of tutorial.

http://thestrategygamer.com/2019/11/04/armored-brigade-a-tutorial/

Yooper fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Nov 10, 2019

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts is getting some more vids from early access and it's looking really good still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxxHUAlu3jM

e: dude tries to build a 1914 yamato, does not end well.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Nov 10, 2019

Huskalator
Mar 17, 2009

Proud fascist
anti-anti-fascist
How is the AI in AB? Game looks interesting but a negative Steam review saying the AI is a disaster is making me hold off.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Does the review explain why the ai is a disaster?

Huskalator
Mar 17, 2009

Proud fascist
anti-anti-fascist

quote:

1. Terrible AI Pathfinding
Units (platoons) cannot move in a coherent manner, even when the player closely controls them to do so. The best method for effective movement is to break apart units, which then suffers from significantly higher command delays. Want your vehicle to turn 90 degrees to the right? That'll cost you 30 seconds. No thanks

quote:

3. The enemy AI is terrible
The game comes with a Mission Generator that allows you to pick where and who you want to fight. The problem is that the enemy employs no coherent tactics. Even if you select Meeting Engagement, they will hit you with whatever they want first (usually the fastest units). There is Division Reconnaissance (DTG Recon) or BTG Recon (Brigade Reconnaissance). It just a piece-meal attack sometimes with artillery or CAS. It's not coherent. The same applies for AI forces defending "objectives" (#4). There is no coherent defensive plan. There is no interlocking fields of fire or established defense. It's usually just a bunch of units gathered around the objective

sum
Nov 15, 2010

Alchenar posted:

Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts is getting some more vids from early access and it's looking really good still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxxHUAlu3jM

e: dude tries to build a 1914 yamato, does not end well.

This looks a lot better than the first videos that came out. I'm glad to see that the engagement ranges are realistic and there's apparently just enough concessions to make it playable in real time. Sorta weird that there's apparently not a tactical map view though, I can't imagine commanding anything larger than a small scrap from flying camera mode.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




A large fleet battle is going to be tough without a map the old 3D Russo-Japanese and Jutland games suffered badly from control issues. By 1910 most major navies were making provisions for a flag plot so the admiral in charge can get a big picture view.

I just played a game this morning, another run at the defended convoy battle. I managed to squeeze a pair of twin turrets on each side by going down to 11" guns. That gave me 2 BC with 11" on belt and turret, which proved to be enough to just smash everything. I should have been more cautious about torpedoes, but a win is a win.

If you like boat games, put down the pre-order money now for the discount, you're going to want this.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Huskalator posted:

1. Terrible AI Pathfinding

3. Enemy AI is Terrible

Combined unit movement can be pretty dependent on the terrain. For example you can select a company of M2's with dismounted infantry and make an advance order. They will, depending on the SOP you give them, advance. They may all stick to cover, or move quickest route, or shortest route. This doesn't mean they'll always stay in formation. I think the time delay should be broken down between changes to unit orders that are platoon-company level or higher command. If a tank is on the edge of a treeline I should be able to tell him to back up, or rotate, with a minimal time delay. A large movement of a unit to secure a town or something should have the normal delay.



This is an advance order given to a company of M113's. They are set to a "cover" SOP.



The yellow-black line is the path it will take. In this, in cover. It will try to maintain formation at the end of the move. It may look screwed up depending on terrain. You can also tell them to seek cover if they take fire or unload on contact, which also screws up the potential formation. Almost all of the Company are attempting to move through the only cover available, those heavy woods.

The 2nd company, set to quick, is pathing right down the street in the center of town and will return to formation upon move completion.

The last company set to shortest is just drawing a straight line and ignoring cover or distance.

As far as the enemy AI being terrible, I'm not sure. I've found BTR's infiltrating my line, hostile RPG teams sneaking up on my M1's, and consecutive waves of combined armor-BMP teams that overwhelm my units. Seeing as there isn't a "god" mode where I can see pathing I don't know if it's just dumb luck, terrain choices, or what the details are. I find the battles to be challenging, even the ones I make that should be turkey shoots.



In the above example they attack from multiple vectors, at the same time, and made effective use of cover and artillery. The MIG-21 strafing runs put a hurting on my mech inf too.



I see that a lot. I haven't played much from the Warsaw Pact side, but playing as the Belgians, Italians, Yugoslavians, or Finns has been fairly challenging and interesting. I've found it's best to reduce the point count, enlarge the map, and work with more maneuvering rather than straight up brute force hulk smash where the whole map is completely filled with units.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


Alright, took a bit of time this weekend and finished the next version of my Armored Brigade factions mod. Now there's both Egypt and Israel from 1950-1995. Just as for now, Egypt is basically Poland in most stats, Israel is based off the US.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lxszxyrd06ld74i/lazyFactions0.2.zip?dl=0

In theory you just have to drop it in your database folder and it should work. It looks like they added the ability to place graphics within a subfolder of the db (probably for workshop support), but let me know if it starts throwing errors about not being able to find some sprite.

I haven't had a chance to test it extensively so let me know if:

1. Do any graphics seem really misaligned (turret is floating off of the hull).
2. If anything seems super unbalanced and needs a price adjustment (frankly I don't care if penetration or armour values are off by 20mm or something. There's a lot of educated guesses going on for later equipment).
3. I'm particularly curious if the Pereh missile carrier is super busted. I thought it'd be a cool toy to put in but even though I gimped it (I limited it to its 8km fibre optic range, not the full 25km range), it's still a fire and forget ATGM with what I think is the longest range in the game. Should be available for Israel from 82-95.
4. If there's any major gaps in either Egypt or Israel that make them seem at a large disadvantage compared to other factions.

I'm still planning to do a writeup on how to make units, I just got on a bit of a roll with this over the week and figured I might as well push through.

My plans next are to flesh out the US/USSR to the 50-95 time range before I move on to another brand new faction. At the same time I'll try to figure out what all the era related faction stats other than training and morale do and adjust them for Egypt/Israel.

Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Nov 10, 2019

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I don't know about the randomly generated battles (which, lets face it, approximately zero 'hard' wargames do well), but jumping into a couple of the scenarios I watched a Soviet force drive hard at me, using smoke to mask approached, tanks as overwatch while infantry drove in to the objectives, and large amounts of artillery smashing my units when they exposed themselves. It felt pretty decent.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

mllaneza posted:

A large fleet battle is going to be tough without a map the old 3D Russo-Japanese and Jutland games suffered badly from control issues. By 1910 most major navies were making provisions for a flag plot so the admiral in charge can get a big picture view.

I just played a game this morning, another run at the defended convoy battle. I managed to squeeze a pair of twin turrets on each side by going down to 11" guns. That gave me 2 BC with 11" on belt and turret, which proved to be enough to just smash everything. I should have been more cautious about torpedoes, but a win is a win.

If you like boat games, put down the pre-order money now for the discount, you're going to want this.

I mean, it’s not that hard. I recall fleet maneuvers being pretty easy In the Great Naval Battles series and even Fighting Steel.

I liked Distant Guns and Jutland because they were the only modern pre-dreadnought and dreadnought era games, and they were true 3D; however, their battle UI sucked and broke completely after the games got sold off to some Russian dudes who abandoned them... but are still perfectly willing to steal people’s money by selling the software that literally does not work.

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


Dimitris posted:

Kushan did a preview stream on CMO last night: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/506108414 . We had some good fun.

After watching the stream, I'm REAL excited for this - it addresses pretty much every presentation-related issue I've had with CMANO. The new map resolution and map overlays are great, and the sounds don't make me want to tear my ears off.

Looks great, kids!

Huskalator
Mar 17, 2009

Proud fascist
anti-anti-fascist

Yooper posted:

Combined unit movement can be pretty dependent on the terrain. For example you can select a company of M2's with dismounted infantry and make an advance order. They will, depending on the SOP you give them, advance. They may all stick to cover, or move quickest route, or shortest route. This doesn't mean they'll always stay in formation. I think the time delay should be broken down between changes to unit orders that are platoon-company level or higher command. If a tank is on the edge of a treeline I should be able to tell him to back up, or rotate, with a minimal time delay. A large movement of a unit to secure a town or something should have the normal delay.



This is an advance order given to a company of M113's. They are set to a "cover" SOP.



The yellow-black line is the path it will take. In this, in cover. It will try to maintain formation at the end of the move. It may look screwed up depending on terrain. You can also tell them to seek cover if they take fire or unload on contact, which also screws up the potential formation. Almost all of the Company are attempting to move through the only cover available, those heavy woods.

The 2nd company, set to quick, is pathing right down the street in the center of town and will return to formation upon move completion.

The last company set to shortest is just drawing a straight line and ignoring cover or distance.

As far as the enemy AI being terrible, I'm not sure. I've found BTR's infiltrating my line, hostile RPG teams sneaking up on my M1's, and consecutive waves of combined armor-BMP teams that overwhelm my units. Seeing as there isn't a "god" mode where I can see pathing I don't know if it's just dumb luck, terrain choices, or what the details are. I find the battles to be challenging, even the ones I make that should be turkey shoots.



In the above example they attack from multiple vectors, at the same time, and made effective use of cover and artillery. The MIG-21 strafing runs put a hurting on my mech inf too.



I see that a lot. I haven't played much from the Warsaw Pact side, but playing as the Belgians, Italians, Yugoslavians, or Finns has been fairly challenging and interesting. I've found it's best to reduce the point count, enlarge the map, and work with more maneuvering rather than straight up brute force hulk smash where the whole map is completely filled with units.

Thanks for this. Sounds like it's not that bad. My bar for AI is pretty low with wargames but I've bought a few that, disappointingly, don't even reach that.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Alright, took a bit of time this weekend and finished the next version of my Armored Brigade factions mod. Now there's both Egypt and Israel from 1950-1995. Just as for now, Egypt is basically Poland in most stats, Israel is based off the US.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lxszxyrd06ld74i/lazyFactions0.2.zip?dl=0

In theory you just have to drop it in your database folder and it should work. It looks like they added the ability to place graphics within a subfolder of the db (probably for workshop support), but let me know if it starts throwing errors about not being able to find some sprite.

I haven't had a chance to test it extensively so let me know if:

1. Do any graphics seem really misaligned (turret is floating off of the hull).
2. If anything seems super unbalanced and needs a price adjustment (frankly I don't care if penetration or armour values are off by 20mm or something. There's a lot of educated guesses going on for later equipment).
3. I'm particularly curious if the Pereh missile carrier is super busted. I thought it'd be a cool toy to put in but even though I gimped it (I limited it to its 8km fibre optic range, not the full 25km range), it's still a fire and forget ATGM with what I think is the longest range in the game. Should be available for Israel from 82-95.
4. If there's any major gaps in either Egypt or Israel that make them seem at a large disadvantage compared to other factions.

I'm still planning to do a writeup on how to make units, I just got on a bit of a roll with this over the week and figured I might as well push through.

My plans next are to flesh out the US/USSR to the 50-95 time range before I move on to another brand new faction. At the same time I'll try to figure out what all the era related faction stats other than training and morale do and adjust them for Egypt/Israel.



Thanks dude!

Seeing P-51's dogfight MIG-17's is pretty awesome. Holy poo poo do the Egyptians get a pile of units.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Just posting to say that i am extremely horny for Unity of Command 2. Flare path did a preview for it this week and it looks loving ace

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


Between Unity of Command 2 and the new?ish Command, this is going to be a good week for wargame dorks.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


Yooper posted:

Seeing P-51's dogfight MIG-17's is pretty awesome. Holy poo poo do the Egyptians get a pile of units.

Yeah I'd recommend lowering the number of force points if you're playing pre-1965. The current auto-generated cost of the some of the earlier units I added is a bit on the low side, so the AI sometimes ends up purchasing a metric ton of cheap tanks. The game also seems to overvalue armor compared to mobility or firepower when auto-calculating unit cost leading to some weird things right now like a company of AMX-13s costing a fair bit less than a company of early WW2 vintage Valentines because the Valentine has like twice the armor.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Squiggle posted:

Between Unity of Command 2 and the new?ish Command, this is going to be a good week for wargame dorks.

Screw moving boxes, i need me some sweet geographical overlay action and a risk of sudden badgers.

Magni
Apr 29, 2009
Going back to OOB WW2, Sandstorm is really nice in how it works the Italians into the campaign. Unlike classic Panzer General campaigns, you actually have seperate german and italian army cores following you through the campaign, with seperate income and command point (basically pop limit for maps) pools. So you can't just load up on german units while ignoring the Italians, you actually have to figure out how to create two forces that complement each other with their different units and what jobs each of them can do better.

The outcome is actually kinda historical, too, at least for me so far: My german core halfway through the campaign is mostly tanks and motorized infantry+engineers forming a mobile strike force. Meanwhile the Italians have garbage armor, but some tough as nails light infantry and surprisingly great and cost-effective artillery options, plus good recon. Given their units are also cheaper to repair/replace, they generally end up anchoring defense lines or doing the heavy grind in sieges. And in the air, the Germans have the best high-end fighters, but the Italians have the overall more cost-effective ones. OTOH, recon planes are virtually the same and german tac bombers just poo poo all over the one the Italians get. The result is that the Italians are my main fighter wing and have all the recon planes, while the Germans are doing the CAS work and bring out the Fw-190s to go after the most dangerous enemy air units.

mllaneza posted:

I've run into Kido Butai once. Missed/duds with 6 torpedoes.

Ahh, the classic USS Tunny experience. (Had three flatdecks dead to rights at under 1k yards and fired all ten tubes. 3 misses and 7 premature detonations.)

Hippocrass
Aug 18, 2015

That third panel of the first comic just makes it. It's still funny if you remove it, but that panel included just makes it top tier.

Yooper posted:

I made up a mock field manual that's a kind of tutorial.

http://thestrategygamer.com/2019/11/04/armored-brigade-a-tutorial/

Thanks. Never enough official tutorial material in this hobby.

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V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
After watching that CMO stream I went back and tried to play the North Pacific Shootout scenario in CMANO. The CMANO one is waaay different (you start off at war and your Tomcats already on predetermined patrols) and just all over seemed much harder to parse than the CMO one.

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