[Mafia] When Mods Collide

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Voodoofly: Jul 3, 2002; Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

b-minus1 posted:

So do you think spoonsy is town or scum?

Don't know right now, haven't really gone back to read him again yet more thoroughly but I place zero weight on the vote stuff. This is a strange game and I'd have used that vote at end of day 1 the same way regardless of my alignment. I thought steak's posts were scummier than spooonsy at the end of the day when I read both post histories but that wasn't a hard bar to pass.

Honestly the fact that he didn't tell Andy to gently caress off is more scummy to me than anything else.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 22:59

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 16:52

b-minus1: Jul 24, 2008; She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before

##vote maigus would also vote merk but I can sort of see a scenario in which town would refuse to claim this early. I�m still worried that he was trying to pocket me yesterday. We need to flip one of them

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:00

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Sandwolf posted:

you're admitting you're withholding info from us. You put some weak argument about how claims distract from scumhunting, but it is very apparent you do not have a town PoV here.

a post so nice you said it twice

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:00

Sandwolf: Jan 23, 2007; i'll be harpo

Maigius I think you should fullclaim. Full.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:01

Voodoofly: Jul 3, 2002; Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

Sandwolf posted:

Jed!, Voodoo,

what do you think about Maigius or merk?

On just a surface level I don't think merk's response to tell people to go to hell about his role has any indication on alignment.

I'd say the same thing about my role right now.

Maigius role itself is another shrug, but I haven't really read how it was revealed in context that well so don't know. The "haven't read" is probably going to be a theme if you want to know my other opinions right now.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:02

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

b-minus1 posted:

##vote maigus would also vote merk but I can sort of see a scenario in which town would refuse to claim this early. I�m still worried that he was trying to pocket me yesterday. We need to flip one of them

actually i can't. if we flip maigius it'll confirm his ability and confirm merk visited so unless we all swerve off maigius (which is still entirely possible as it's early) merk trying to be coy about it doesn't really add much value to town i think.

what is interesting is what merk thinks of maigius claim. and interestingly merk doesnt' interact with maigius claim at all, until maigius mentions him. i find that really really interesting.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:04

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

mafia edit, it'll confirm merk visited IF maigius flips as per his claim. obviously. just thought i should spell that out though so some tricksy posters dont try and twist my meaning post hoc

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:05

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

This isn't merk's town game. He's spent the entire day defensive instead of scum hunting. Town merk would vote for this merk

##vote merk

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:07

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

"i'm not interested in claims" says person who is being implicated by claim.

it's like an onion headline.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:07

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

Maigius posted:

I enjoy my role, it is interesting.

Maigius posted:

I fully admit to being a moron with the setup speculation stuff. I'll admit to being town and having a skill. My skill is not all that useful. I'll also admit I was bored while making dinner. I solemnly swear to stop poking at the setup to see how it works.

Maigius posted:

I didn't see the explanation post at the time. I bury a dead person and their stuff every night.

Maigius posted:

Last night I buried PQ. Digging six feet takes time.

Maigius posted:

Someone else was grave robbing.

Maigius posted:

Sorry was eating dinner and a minor family issue, the we in that statement meant those of us playing the game. The tech items was literally a guess on my part, but like I said the other to power sources seem more intrinsic. PQ had tech items, they seemed powerful and now someone has them.

Maigius posted:

As I'm likely dead either way by the end of N2, I guess I'll say this. I have another facet to my power, I know who disturbed PQ's grave. Merk did. I know this counts for nothing right now, but keep that in mind.

Mostly reiterating what's been said already, but Maigius has an interesting role that isn't very useful to the town. He buried PQ and his stuff so that nobody could take it but then someone took it anyway. Also he can tell who takes the stuff for some reason, which seems very useful to the town!

He hasn't done any scum hunting this game and he had a sketchy vote change near the deadline.

I'm fully down with a Maigius launch too

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:14

Sub Rosa: Jun 9, 2010

I'm good with lunching Maigus or merk but think we should get merk first.

##vote merk

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:17

Voodoofly: Jul 3, 2002; Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

Voodoofly posted:

On just a surface level I don't think merk's response to tell people to go to hell about his role has any indication on alignment.

I'd say the same thing about my role right now.

Maigius role itself is another shrug, but I haven't really read how it was revealed in context that well so don't know. The "haven't read" is probably going to be a theme if you want to know my other opinions right now.

So my biggest issue with Maigius today is the claim seems to come out of nowhere. He has admitted he thinks it was a stupid idea. How the claim came out itself I don't think is scummy - actually I guess not coming after merk out of the gate might be scummy since he eventually says he thinks merk is scum and he saw him last night.

But nonetheless I don't think anything about his claim sounds like he is lying or twisting it as it goes or anything and I'm just going to say again I have no drat idea why people are so bent on trying to capture people in a lie or claim that XXX role has no town, or scum, or whatever uses in a game this strange.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:23

Voodoofly: Jul 3, 2002; Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

Jose Valasquez posted:

Mostly reiterating what's been said already, but Maigius has an interesting role that isn't very useful to the town. He buried PQ and his stuff so that nobody could take it but then someone took it anyway. Also he can tell who takes the stuff for some reason, which seems very useful to the town!

He hasn't done any scum hunting this game and he had a sketchy vote change near the deadline.

I'm fully down with a Maigius launch too

This is actually the best vote/reasoning I've seen on Maigius.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:23

b-minus1: Jul 24, 2008; She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before

I can sort of buy that town maigus fumbled his claim, as opposed to merk who straight up refuses to respond to the claim lol. ##vote merk is the better choice

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:27

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

I didn't even know this guy was in the game, but he's a good candidate for a maigius scum buddy doing some light D1 bussing.

cheese sandwich posted:

lol scum found ##vote maigius

cheese sandwich posted:

Looking into it I'm cooling on maigius. This is their second game and reading them with that in mind sounds more earnest than scum imo ##unvote

The rest of his posts are just hanging out on the periphery of other people's posts.

His one D1 take is:

cheese sandwich posted:

This probably feels like the least genuine reaction to hum ##vote pq

I'm open to the idea of spoonsy but his post here felt to me more like he thought he found a (pretty bad) gotcha and was pushing that. Idk his reaction feels more candid than PQ's

Although unless he posts more he'll be modkilled anyway

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:28

Voodoofly: Jul 3, 2002; Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

CapnAndy posted:

But you said your action last night failed, so you can hardly be confirming results right now or anything.
I mean... yes, I did, I literally did lie as a townie. That is what literally means! Merk if you're out there why would you be mad????

Right now I am suspicious of spoonsy. Any role that can manipulate the vote scares me, and even if we put his role to the side, I have multiple issues with how he used it and his stated motivations that I think are extremely valid and spoonsy has completely failed to address so far. There's a spectrum here; I do not trust spoonsy at all right now but I am not willing to call him out-and-out scum yet. If I was convinced he was scum I wouldn't be giving him opportunities to clarify things and explain himself, I'd just be yelling at everyone to vote him.

So, this top quote is out of order but I think it fits. Andy is "suspicious' of spoonsy and "doesn't trust him" and has issues with how spoonsy used the vote. So now I'm going to quote some posts from Andy about Spoonsy since the start of day 2 (and this is not all of them)

CapnAndy posted:

My start of day thoughts:

- PQ's role was really cool and really powerful given that we're getting full flips and it's very disturbing that someone disturbed his grave given what he himself could do with corpses.
- I was a lot angrier with voodoo before steak's flip. Yeah, there were only 10 minutes left, but they were shaping up to be a very eventful ten minutes once spoonsy used his power. Hammering right then and shutting down discussion was not at all cool. If Steak had flipped town I'd be already voting voodoo for it.
- We very much need to discuss the fact that spoonsy can manipulate votes. It's apparently pretty limited, but any kind of moving votes around doesn't seem super great to me.

CapnAndy posted:

Oh thank you, I knew there was something else I wanted to bring up that had been bugging me.

Remember when you voted cpig and I specifically said it was a weird vote because you could've just voted steak out of self-preservation? Seriously, why didn't you do that? Why wait and then go loud with your powerset? And why use your powers at all, given that at that point the momentum was clearly on steak and it was either gonna be steak or a no-vote?

CapnAndy posted:

How would allaying our fears not be helpful?

CapnAndy posted:

That makes sense too, don�t worry.

Anyway, making him make his own decisions is part of this. I want a clear demonstration of his power and I want him to willingly deprive himself of an advantage for the benefit of the town.

CapnAndy posted:

Bra-goddamn-vo.
He asked me too and it went amiable enough so it wasn't that big a deal but yeah, Nad, how come you keep asking people that? We've all got powers!
Go back and look at what you quoted again, dude. It was about maigius, not spoonsy. Maigius is undisputably lying at this point.

For the record, if spoonsy demonstrates that his power works exactly how he says it does -- if he can put my vote onto maigius without voting himself and I'll still have control of my vote afterwards -- it'll win a lot of trust from me. And... "if he is lying, do you think that makes him scum"? Are you really pretending like you need me to explain to you mafia fundamentals like "execute all liars", because everyone here knows full well that ain't so. We go way back, c'mon now.

CapnAndy posted:

But you said your action last night failed, so you can hardly be confirming results right now or anything.
I mean... yes, I did, I literally did lie as a townie. That is what literally means! Merk if you're out there why would you be mad????

Right now I am suspicious of spoonsy. Any role that can manipulate the vote scares me, and even if we put his role to the side, I have multiple issues with how he used it and his stated motivations that I think are extremely valid and spoonsy has completely failed to address so far. There's a spectrum here; I do not trust spoonsy at all right now but I am not willing to call him out-and-out scum yet. If I was convinced he was scum I wouldn't be giving him opportunities to clarify things and explain himself, I'd just be yelling at everyone to vote him.

So read all of those and tell me (1) isn't it weird that someone is posting all of this but wants to phrase it as "suspicious" instead of just calling spoonsy scummy? (2) even if we take it at face value, look at how many times he is trying to catch Spoonsy in a lie or make him spell everything out.

So, put yourself in Andy's shoes. If Andy is town and all of this is genuine, how in the hell does Spoonsy doing the vote make you say this:

CapnAndy posted:

Yeah, I just wanted to let them fix it before I did anything else. Spoonsy seems on the up-and-up, I have no qualms about this and doubt I�m moving my vote again.

## vote maigius

You want to know what else Andy has posted about today:
- A lot of back and forth to clarify "the town win condition"
- Claiming he was blocked for no reason
- Calling Magius a liar repeatedly and calling that scummy despite admitting to me that obviously "lynch all liars" is not a good idea.

Andy isn't scum hunting, and this is scummy as hell.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:35

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Mr. Humalong posted:

I do not believe Maigius.

Their role claim or the Merk claim?

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:38

Voodoofly: Jul 3, 2002; Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

CapnAndy posted:

PQ himself could tell you at least one reason.

Y�know what, I think this has become pertinent: my action that failed last night was targeting maigius. Like I said, I don�t know why it failed � I could�ve been roleblocked � but it�s still worthwhile to know.

Also, Andy posted this (and his replies to me) after Maigius brought up seeing Merk. Andy is so drat set on Maigius that "he doubts he will move his vote again" but that is a huge drat part of his role and Andy just doesn't care.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:38

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

Here are merk's non-OMGUS/non-defensive posts for D2

merk posted:

LordNad makes the vote 11/10 with Steak over Spoonsy here. If Spoonsy isn't scum, I think LordNad looks town for this vote.

D1 in his own words:

merk posted:

The context Scientastic is purposely ignoring is that I barely did anything yesterday.

merk isn't scum hunting. This isn't town merk

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:24

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

Plus a bonus launch all liars post combo :v:

merk posted:

I was kind of blustering before, but I really won't unvote Scientastic ever now.

merk posted:

##vote Sandwolf

I can't honestly believe Sandwolf thinks me advocating we analyze votes/cases over role discussion is "some weak argument" when I literally did that for multiple game days in a game with him less than a month ago.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:25

xopods: Oct 26, 2010

merk posted:

##vote Sandwolf

I can't honestly believe Sandwolf thinks me advocating we analyze votes/cases over role discussion is "some weak argument" when I literally did that for multiple game days in a game with him less than a month ago.

Have you contributed anything to this game yourself beyond OMGUSing everyone who calls you scum?

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:28

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

hambeet posted:

so you wanted to test that part of his role, but take that it's a once a day thing at face value?

I find that highly believable, yes. Besides, how could spoonsy possibly prove he can�t do it again?

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:30

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

CapnAndy posted:

I find that highly believable, yes. Besides, how could spoonsy possibly prove he can�t do it again?

He could try to do it again and show us it doesn't work

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:30

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

CapnAndy posted:

I find that highly believable, yes. Besides, how could spoonsy possibly prove he can�t do it again?

Of all people you should know to always be prepared to test claims twice :v:

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:33

xopods: Oct 26, 2010

Well, the good news about this game is that we don't have the problem of not knowing who we want to lunch on D2.

The bad news is that it could use a few dayvigs. Maybe Yamni could just sprinkle a few in now as a hotfix?

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:35

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

I am phone posting now so I can�t give this the response it deserves so for now voodoo, you�re making no sense and it�s frankly weird as hell that you�re so touchy on spoonsy�s behalf; you�re reacting far worse than spoonsy himself

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:35

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Jose Valasquez posted:

He could try to do it again and show us it doesn't work

That�s fair! I didn�t think of that.

Jose Valasquez posted:

Of all people you should know to always be prepared to test claims twice

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:37

Sandwolf: Jan 23, 2007; i'll be harpo

CapnAndy posted:

I am phone posting now so I can�t give this the response it deserves so for now voodoo, you�re making no sense and it�s frankly weird as hell that you�re so touchy on spoonsy�s behalf; you�re reacting far worse than spoonsy himself

The more suspicious thing imo about voodoo is him sidestepping much of this merk/Maigius stuff to focus on something that I honestly think is not very damning one way or another

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:39

Voodoofly: Jul 3, 2002; Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

CapnAndy posted:

I am phone posting now so I can�t give this the response it deserves so for now voodoo, you�re making no sense and it�s frankly weird as hell that you�re so touchy on spoonsy�s behalf; you�re reacting far worse than spoonsy himself

I�m not defending him. I�m coming around to him being scummy as well. I definitely think you are scummy though.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:40

dmboogie: Oct 4, 2013

Sandwolf posted:

Maigius I think you should fullclaim. Full.

seconded

merk seems a bit off but maigius is so incredibly off the scum charts that i'd definitely prefer to vote them today

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:44

Nep-Nep: May 15, 2004; Just one more thing!

I'm fine with the merk vote, I did a full reread of merk and I don't really have anything to add but

merk posted:

LordNad makes the vote 11/10 with Steak over Spoonsy here. If Spoonsy isn't scum, I think LordNad looks town for this vote.

I think this post and its surrounding context are the sticking point for me, it doesn't look like scumhunting to me to see someone takeaway a "looks town" read from vote analysis and not really work to express any other opinions or calls from it.

##vote merk

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:46

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

I know some people hate nk speculation, but in TGP LordNad was very much about killing TT N1 because he knew TT would end up catching him (he was right, it happened D1 :v:

). There are plenty of other reasons for TT to die N1 and I don't plan to vote LordNad over it, but it has been pinging my gut all day.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:48

merk: May 20, 2003; ##interact

I am scum hunting. I have a case on scientastic and sandwolf.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:56

Maigius: Jun 29, 2013

Sandwolf posted:

Maigius I think you should fullclaim. Full.

I am the town Gravekeeper. Every night I can bury someone. If someone has visited the grave, the thread gets the grave is disturbed message that we got at the start of D2. I know who disturbed the grave. Last night it was Merk.
Will review who I think is scummy and report back in a couple of hours.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:57

dmboogie: Oct 4, 2013

Maigius posted:

Town wants me to help prevent scum from getting at those sweet items.

Maigius posted:

I am the town Gravekeeper. Every night I can bury someone. If someone has visited the grave, the thread gets the grave is disturbed message that we got at the start of D2. I know who disturbed the grave. Last night it was Merk.
Will review who I think is scummy and report back in a couple of hours.

so you don't prevent scum from doing anything?

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:58

votefinder: Jul 6, 2010; scoop scoop

Votecount for Day 2

merk (8): Scientastic, xopods, Squiggly, hambeet, Jose Valasquez, Sub Rosa, b-minus1, Nep-Nep

Maigius (6): CapnAndy, ~~CapnAndy~~, LordNad, Sandwolf, DGK2000, dmboogie, xopods, CapnAndy, ~~xopods~~, Spoonsy, b-minus1, ~~b-minus1~~

Sandwolf (1): merk

CapnAndy (1): Voodoofly

SalTheBard (0): Scientastic, ~~Scientastic~~

b-minus1 (0): CapnAndy, ~~CapnAndy~~

Spoonsy (0): xopods, ~~xopods~~

Scientastic (0): merk, ~~merk~~

Nep-Nep (0): Scientastic, ~~Scientastic~~

Not Voting (6): CapitalistPig, cheese sandwich, Maigius, MisterJed, Mr. Humalong, SalTheBard

With 22 alive, it's 12 votes to execute. The current deadline is June 04^th, 2020 at 6 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 22 hours.

Days will be 48 hours, nights are 24 hours.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:59

Sandwolf: Jan 23, 2007; i'll be harpo

##vote merk

# ? Jun 4, 2020 01:01

xopods: Oct 26, 2010

Maigius posted:

Town wants me to help prevent scum from getting at those sweet items.

Maigius posted:

I am the town Gravekeeper. Every night I can bury someone. If someone has visited the grave, the thread gets the grave is disturbed message that we got at the start of D2. I know who disturbed the grave. Last night it was Merk.
Will review who I think is scummy and report back in a couple of hours.

If your role is to see who successfully obtains items, why did you initially claim that it was to prevent Scum from getting the items?

# ? Jun 4, 2020 01:02

Sandwolf: Jan 23, 2007; i'll be harpo

dmboogie posted:

so you don't prevent scum from doing anything?

Maigius if you were to have buried someone and they were not disturbed, do you think it would be accessible to scum the following night?

# ? Jun 4, 2020 01:04

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 16:52

LordNad: Nov 18, 2002; HEY BAD GUYS, THIS IS THE VICE PRESIDENT, PLEASE DON'T KILL HIM!

MisterJed posted:

There were a lot of people you were willing to vote for and I found it suspicious that you moved to someone else entirely near the end of the day, but your response here makes sense.

Did you visit anyone last night?

# ? Jun 4, 2020 01:11

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