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Yeah true. The first few episodes of Picard were like eeeeehhh but then it became uuuuuughhh.
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Aug 26, 2020 20:31
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Taear posted:Lower Decks has worse reviews than Disco/Picard but nobody talks about Disco/Picard in the UK at all[...] Were you working for your current company when S1 or S2 were released? My gut feeling is that they push whatever is currently 'hot' and for example, earlier this year I would guess that would have been The Witcher in the nerd category. Phylodox posted:I liked Picard right up until they got to the robot planet, then it kinda fell apart a bit. I probably would have liked those last few episodes a bit more if I’d never played Mass Effect.
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Aug 27, 2020 01:31
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More like cool plagiarism that didn't payoff
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Aug 27, 2020 05:40
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Michael Chabon is not a hack writer. He didn't plagiarize anything. The concept of a super advanced AI that kills biologic life is not a concept unique to Mass Effect.
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Aug 27, 2020 06:25
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oh gently caress off they even lifted the low effort stock footage montage
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Aug 27, 2020 06:37
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It's a cost saving measure that's not unique to Picard. They reused the Brid of Prey exploding in actual movies with actual budget. How many matte paintings did they reuse? Using stock footage is just a bizzare nitpick.
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Aug 27, 2020 06:49
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xerxus posted:It's a cost saving measure that's not unique to Picard. The vision the player character gets in Mass Effect, which has absolutely nothing in common with the one in Picard other than being presented as disorientating rapid flashes isn't "low effort stock footage" either Continually trying to compare Picard and that game is just the most bizarre bordering on embarrassing reach.
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Aug 27, 2020 07:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I know this thread likes to be hyperbolic about how bad NuTrek is or isn’t but uh he is correct, yes
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Aug 27, 2020 07:21
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Agreed, you can't compare the two. Mass Effect was a good game. Picard was garbage.
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Aug 27, 2020 07:31
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Seemlar posted:Continually trying to compare Picard and that game is just the most bizarre bordering on embarrassing reach. There are similarities and it's up to the individual to decide how much of a reach it is. I saw the interior of the main ship on Picard and was instantly reminded of the main ship from Mass Effect. That doesn't necessarily mean it was copied but it's probably just following the popular sci-fi styles on this generation of media. The issue in my eyes is that Star Trek should be innovative and unique instead just a trend-follower. I have to guess that it's because the people in charge haven't made that a priority.
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Aug 27, 2020 09:34
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What do you think their priorities were? From the RLM review (which I found really unhelpful and repetitive), it sounds like it was heavy on sending a message on social issues, but treated them quite shallowly without actually exploring causes or realistic consequences. Is that fair? Also, if the 'plagiarism' is really just the concept that an evil AI wants to kill people... yeah, that's not plagiarism.
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Aug 27, 2020 11:48
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I'm convinced that the reason Picard failed was because they put together a much tighter story for the first season than we actually got, were all set and ready to go, and then someone (be it a writer, a producer, whatever) took a gigantic Sharpie to the whole thing and made massive changes. The writers then didn't really try terribly hard to adapt the story they wrote to account for the new changes, and so you get things like... including a random Riker/Troi episode in the middle of it -- which I mean it was a fine episode but it reeked of "we put this in here because we had to" because of its wild departure from the season's pacing. Otherwise it's hard to account for holes as glaring as stuff like: Picard's two Romulan vineyard employees, who started off very strong and kinda compelling, literally disappeared 3 episodes in and were never mentioned again; Hugh's role being subsumed into Seven's and Hugh getting done extremely dirty in terms of how his character ends up; the random pirate dude who flies around in a TOS warbird for some reason and is never mentioned before or since but is, apparently, a big deal in that part of space; the entire... everything on Freeport or whatever that planet was called... Like I feel like if someone could just peel away the really lovely shag carpet that is season 1 of Picard, there's probably some decent hardwood underneath that some idiot thought would be a good idea to cover up. But unfortunately what's done is done, and in today's post-fact culture I don't see the real truth of it coming out for a long time, like what we now know about things like Rick Berman being a sexual predator and whatnot. Drone fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 12:03
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The evil AI menace from Picard was practically, beat for beat, a ripoff of the Reapers from Mass Effect. Right down to the concept of the Catalyst and the organic lifeforms creating the AI that ultimately turns on them and attacks their civilization.
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Aug 27, 2020 12:06
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My take on why the stock footage sequence sticks in everyone's craw is because it's an easy to highlight example of the show's sloppiness. Stock exists in most shows, but usually it's an establishing drone slot of a city, background archival on a TV, etc... Not a major scripted reveal to a mystery underpinning the season arc. It's not really the same as getting extra mileage out of an matte or model shot. It's harder to go over the all the clunky, forced or straight up aborted plot threads and characterisations, whose problems are more cumulative and to a lot of the audience are noticeable but they probably don't have the patience or interest to bother articulating them. But a slapped together Shutterstock montage that you can snicker about its cheapness to the exact dollar? Yeah people will get a lot of mileage out of that. I'd put money that the sequence existed in the edit as a placeholder, complete with watermarks, with the intention of it being given to a proper vendor to create. However, it was probably too late an addition and/or they didn't have the budget left so word came down to just buy the stock "but put some Star Trak logos on it".
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Aug 27, 2020 12:29
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CBS is scheduling Discovery for prime time because covid has meant its usual shows (NCIS, etc) haven't started production.
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Aug 27, 2020 12:54
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Episode 4: Sensors can't penetrate deep enough to locate the stick up my rear end. Pretty weak IMO. The weakest of all four I think. I know I said I should just be fine with Mariner doing whatever she wants but I mean even in a cartoon she's just over the top annoying and that's like her one quality. It's not even funny annoying, the zany is just set to 11 all the time and it doesn't let a scene breathe. The whole yawning during the briefing was so forced that it sucked the comedy right out of the situation. The TNG style B-plot was interesting enough but felt really abbreviated due to the 20-something minute format of the show. And speaking of interesting, Tendi's plotline quickly meandered into the exact opposite. She's veering headfirst into one-dimensionality and the writers forgot to write in any brakes. Boimler's jealousy plot had some opportunities to salvage the show but it lasted for maybe thirty seconds? And speaking of.. Rutherford.. exists? I guess? I guess my biggest complaint is still Mariner. I keep espousing about how this is just a cartoon and shouldn't be reflective of any Star Trek reality, but I just can't get over how blatantly Mariner is an outright rear end in a top hat to the senior crew without any realistic consequences. I'm going to have to make my peace with it because they just keep ramping her up. I honestly think the only time I laughed was at the bleeped out holodeck cum thing. Hopefully this is just an example of "they're sure to miss every now and then" because I've been a pretty big proponent of how funny (imo) this show has been up until now. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 13:25
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Martytoof posted:Episode 4: Sensors can't penetrate deep enough to locate the stick up my rear end.
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Aug 27, 2020 13:40
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The writing is less forgivable when we've had 7 years of Rick and Morty showing that: 1. Yes your protagonist can be an annoying rear end in a top hat 2. HOWEVER, the more of an rear end in a top hat they are the more of a redeeming feature they need. Rick is literally the smartest being in the universe and it sometimes makes up for him being an rear end in a top hat 3. An rear end in a top hat might be redeemed in the round, but they still need to suffer the immediate and direct consequences of being an rear end in a top hat in their relationships with others. Rick is tolerated, but he's not liked or always forgiven. These rules are not being followed with Mariner. e: also now having watched the episode, this was just awful. Really awful. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 14:03
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So the first 90 seconds were extremely Star Trek, which was great. And then Mariner broke it up by being unfunny as poo poo.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:09
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I kinda liked the first three episodes but this one started on a bad note and never recovered.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:19
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Twice in a row now Mariner has had the line "I am good at this, trust me" The problem is Mariner is not good at this and the show doesn't seem to think that her character arc should be realising that.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:23
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Just finished it. It's frustrating because of all of these good Star Trek stories that they are capable of telling, then they just gently caress it up doing everything else with bad humor.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:31
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Alchenar posted:Twice in a row now Mariner has had the line "I am good at this, trust me" Mariner doesn't have a character, she has an attitude and a skill set. They didn't bother giving her any major drives or goals which would feed into an arc, they didn't give her any actual connections to any of the other three main characters and any interpersonal development she experiences with any of the other characters is immediately reversed at the end of the episode with a badly written throwaway gag. The character concept "What if you lived in a post-scarcity scifi utopia but you found it to be really dull and you thought everyone else was a boring dweeb" could have been really fun stepping off point for her character (especially if they played it off against the other interns' blind love of Star Fleet) but I guess they couldn't have the main character be overtly critical about Star Fleet so they dialled back her cynicism to a point where it was focused vaguely on her mother and a dislike for being promoted Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 14:47
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That was an eh episode with, as usual, one or two really great moments.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:54
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*shrug* I thought it was okay. Mariner is absolutely a Rick Sanchez, in that she’s egotistical and a contrarian, but I think the important distinction is that Rick Sanchez is a genocidal megalomaniac, whereas Mariner is just kind of a dick. She doesn’t require anywhere near as much balancing as Rick does because she’s nowhere near as bad. And there was some character development, in that her mother was able to see her for a competent adult instead of a stubborn child, if only for a moment. Plus I actually kind of appreciated the way they effectively compressed a forty-some odd minute Star Trek episode into maybe seven to ten minutes. It still managed to be interesting and somewhat tense without too much narrative padding.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:57
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Rick also wasn't in a hierarchical military organisation where his naked contempt for the rules and insubordination would have him immediately dishonourably discharged
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Aug 27, 2020 15:02
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Phylodox posted:And there was some character development, in that her mother was able to see her for a competent adult instead of a stubborn child, if only for a moment. multijoe posted:Rick also wasn't in a hierarchical military organisation where his naked contempt for the rules and insubordination would have him immediately dishonourably discharged There's two main ways of resolving episodic character arcs: the traditional 80s sitcom "The dilemma is neatly wrapped up and [X] learns an important lesson, freeze frame as everyone laughs, roll credits [but they conveniently forget the lesson before the next episode]" or the Seinfeld/Rick&Morty/RedDwarf "No one learns a lesson because everyone is a fundamentally broken, irredeemable rear end in a top hat or an unforgivably naive idiot" It feels like they going for the "No one ever learns a lesson" route except the characters are all actually competent at their jobs and no one is genuinely irredeemable and they actually have more good qualities than bad so they never fully commit to the level of cynicism required to pull it off.
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Aug 27, 2020 15:17
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I dunno, to me it just seemed like this was an episode where a bunch of people were all yelling unfunny things expecting people to laugh and that comprised most of the show. Caveat of course that "unfunny" is entirely subjective so I have no problem with anyone who thought this episode was good or even okay, I'm just not among them.
some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 15:20
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:There's two main ways of resolving episodic character arcs: the traditional 80s sitcom "The dilemma is neatly wrapped up and [X] learns an important lesson, freeze frame as everyone laughs, roll credits [but they conveniently forget the lesson before the next episode]" or the Seinfeld/Rick&Morty/RedDwarf "No one learns a lesson because everyone is a fundamentally broken, irredeemable rear end in a top hat or an unforgivably naive idiot" All of those 'no one learns a lesson' shows are also in settings where the protagonists can do pretty much whatever they want and it doesn't matter, the Star Trek setting is actually a weight around the show's neck because it immediately creates a contradiction between what the characters are doing and what would actually happen to them in an actual Star Trek show. Even in Red Dwarf the only time they're part of a functioning ship's crew they're immediately put in prison for being complete fuckups, Star Trek is just not a good format for this type of comedy (even if it was executed well)
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Aug 27, 2020 15:28
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I have no problem with that because I don’t bother trying to make Lower Decks work within the context of the actual Star Trek continuity. Like I said, just imagine that it’s a television show within the context of the Star Trek universe. It works fine that way. Seriously, if Patrick Stewart ever did do a guest spot on this show, do you think he’d be playing a character recognizable as the Jean-Luc Picard from Next Generation? Or would he be a loose caricature thereof? It would be like Obama guest hosting Saturday Night Live or something.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:01
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Also, I notice that, as the creators mentioned before, the Merced was a blue-stripe Science California-Class. (Someone at Starfleet clearly decided to make it easy on themselves in the ship naming stakes for that class, if they're all Californian towns.) Speaking of background ships, I feel like at least they seem to be taking advantage of the cartoon format to make the alien-setting-of-the-week slightly cooler and more alien than the TV shows while not straying too far from the general feel of the established Trek universe. On TNG that generation ship absolutely would've been a generic grey box ship. The crystal aliens last week were nicely unique in their tech designs too, and the ground landscapes have been much better than live action shows have done. The design team of this show is doing great, at least. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 16:13
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I really, really liked the underlying Big Sci Fi Conceit of finding a generation ship that didn't work out. the episode was... alright? IDK they can't hit them out of the park every time I think goons are just understandably keyed to hate modern Trek after all the aggresively bad poo poo.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:17
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I liked this episode? It was basically TNG with a few jokes. Sure the yawn was cringe but she was trying to make it over the top to get to her mom so I can see it. As to why Mariner never has consequences, her mom is the freaking captain, who in this episode shows she cares for her and even does want to work together. Of course she will cover for her daughter.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:19
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Phylodox posted:I have no problem with that because I don’t bother trying to make Lower Decks work within the context of the actual Star Trek continuity. Like I said, just imagine that it’s a television show within the context of the Star Trek universe. It works fine that way. You keep saying it's not part of the continuity except the show runner and writers all explicitly have stated their goal is for it to be part of the continuity. Mariner, the character, really hates Starfleet. She's the tumblr version of Ensign Ro.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:19
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It is absolutely now 100% continuity that the star trek universe is balanced on the back of a giant koala.Super Deuce posted:Mariner, the character, really hates Starfleet. She's the tumblr version of Ensign Ro. I suspect it's more accurate to say that a) she resents starfleet, presumably due to her starfleet brat upbringing, and b) hates the fact that despite part (a) she actually loves being in starfleet, at least the having adventures and doing all the cool poo poo around the galaxy. Hopefully they prize that open a little to make the character less flat. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 16:21
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Best throwback trek reference this week was Ransom doing the Riker leg-up while he hit on an ensign.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:26
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Super Deuce posted:You keep saying it's not part of the continuity except the show runner and writers all explicitly have stated their goal is for it to be part of the continuity. Again, continuity is not tone or genre etc. And even if it were, I don’t care. Why does that matter in the slightest?
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Aug 27, 2020 16:37
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Phylodox posted:Again, continuity is not tone or genre etc. And even if it were, I don’t care. Why does that matter in the slightest? You literally said... Man, it's hopeless. You'll defend the nonsense of this show regardless.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:40
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MikeJF posted:Also, I notice that, as the creators mentioned before, the Merced was a blue-stripe Science California-Class. (Someone at Starfleet clearly decided to make it easy on themselves in the ship naming stakes for that class, if they're all Californian towns.) I will say that the California-class is actually really growing on me. I mean it's just a derpy, modernized Miranda (a lovely Nebula, I guess) but I'm kinda coming around on it. Especially if it's just kinda thought to be a workhorse "jack of most trades, master of none" kinda thing. It still irks me that the nameplate is on the wrong end of the saucer though. I don't really get why they did that.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:42
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I liked that it followed the rule of meetings. There's a natural progression when it comes to working your way up the ranks of an organization, and your attitude about meetings. 1. Wow. All the important people go to meetings 2. I'm finally important enough to get to go to meetings. 3. God, not another meeting! Both the meeting to discuss getting new chairs and the mandatory socializing felt really real to me.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:47
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