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TheLoneStar posted:I mean if his Platinum Chip arrived a day earlier he'd literally have saved the entire region from any nuclear bombs through devices he apparently made by himself. If that's not enough to be smart, I wonder what would be. the vibe i got was that he didn't make anything himself, he just did the rockefeller/edison thing and had more competent/science-y people do things that he directed? but i misremembered the entire subplot re: his family so hell if i know also that the whole platinum chip thing was the irony of him being stupid lucky except when it mattered the most Gaius Marius posted:True intelligence is realizing three dog fights the good fight with his words over the radio.  edit: top of page, enjoy cowboy reloading again Fereydun posted:hello friends Fereydun fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 01:42
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steinrokkan posted:Suppressing the three families identities seems like a good thing, since they never were anything more than common gangsters - or worse. I don't think smoothing over tribal identities worked that well if the the white gloves are on the verge of returning to cannibalism.
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Oct 30, 2020 01:57
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I was pretty sure that the New Canaanites were direct descendants of pre-war Mormons and passed on those traditions directly, even if the culture went tribal after the war due to lack of resources. But it's been awhile since I've played, so I could be wrong!
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Oct 30, 2020 02:03
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Fereydun posted:the vibe i got was that he didn't make anything himself, he just did the rockefeller/edison thing and had more competent/science-y people do things that he directed? but i misremembered the entire subplot re: his family so hell if i know Robert House is a MIT/CIT graduate who grew up as the son of a successful entrepreneur, which led to him having great skills for both technology and business. That meant he didn't fall into the classic tech nerd entrepreneur pitfall of "letting some guy in a suit take care of the day-to-day, only for him to seize control of the whole company." Of course that's not entirely correct, because that's what almost happened with Benny, and what can potentially happen once the Courier arrives on the scene.
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Oct 30, 2020 03:01
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Very technically brilliant but is just a loving rear end in a top hat and sees people as an engineering problem. And does that thing where you don't account for friction or other variables.
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Oct 30, 2020 03:17
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I think House's specialty was robots, so I think there was a bit where he was paying Repconn to develop space travel for him instead of developing it himself. And they did do that. That's another reason to let House last long enough to get the Mojave running as its own state, he knows where all the good stuff is buried. Although I don't really know what House was keeping himself busy with while he let Benny keep New Vegas in order. Or what House is even like when he makes public appearances to do things himself. whydirt posted:I was pretty sure that the New Canaanites were direct descendants of pre-war Mormons and passed on those traditions directly, even if the culture went tribal after the war due to lack of resources. But it's been awhile since I've played, so I could be wrong! I never really got New Vegas's idea of "tribal". Like I understand that one group of grade school children who were isolated when they survived the apocalypse developing its own culture and forgetting all about the pre-war ways they never knew in the first place, but why would the survivors of Vegas become "primitive" tribes? And what exactly counts as a tribe? They call the Kings a tribe, but they seem more like just a gang within a society than a society on its own. There's not a lot of female Kings to build a sustaining population with. And then if it's natural for societies to become tribal, it sure seems like most of the places in the Mojave aren't tribal themselves, like Goodsprings, Novac, or Primm.
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Oct 30, 2020 04:06
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I assume if there's no explicit tribal identification I assume they're of the NCR. Which is technically the same tribe that started Shady Sands!
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Oct 30, 2020 04:09
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In a fairly substantial way the NCR and House solutions are identical. If you talk to Walter Phebus at any length about the brahmin barons or complete the Van Graffs' questline they both amply demonstrate that business interests are in control of the state, and becoming more powerful over time. Choosing between them is more about which kind of manager you would rather have.
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Oct 30, 2020 04:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think House's specialty was robots, so I think there was a bit where he was paying Repconn to develop space travel for him instead of developing it himself. And they did do that. That's another reason to let House last long enough to get the Mojave running as its own state, he knows where all the good stuff is buried. "We wear more clothing than them and understand more about technology, but we're still a tribe, a linked family of families." According to Joshua Graham, it's tribes all the way down.
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Oct 30, 2020 05:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:
tribal is a pretty murky and questionable anthropological term with centuries of baggage that said id argue tribal is really anyone not aligned with any nearby state. in the absence of a polity like the NCR or Legion there's no one to demarcate civilized/uncivilized. everyone could be considered 'tribals' but also no one cause there's no reference point that tells them "you're tribals". i dont think the name even comes up once in fallout 4 because until the arrival of the BoS in act 2 there isnt any singular government around to put the various commonwealth groups into little sociological divisions (the insitute, of course, just thinks everyone topside are lost causes.) im sure the NCR would view everyone around boston as tribals it does come up in fallout 3 but thats also with the brotherhood of steel bringing its west coast outlook with them and having set up shop for 20-30 years by the time you come out of the vault, and its mostly just them/Outcasts calling non-BoS affiliated locals tribals iirc (i recently tried doing another run of fallout 3 to refresh my memory but couldnt get it working with win10 so i might not be iirc) all that aside in 2 its pretty clear tribal means like buckskin wearing spear tossing stilted language shamanistic "uncivilized" groups which is extremely problematic but the series if 4 and 76 is any indication seems to be steering clear away from for all the better. if fallout 5 is set somewhere its appropriate id like to see a native american tribe thats actually just adapted to the wastes in a more realistic manner. i liked in wasteland 3 you had the arapaho tribe that just now runs all the caravans in the region as their little niche and therefore are just the best mechanics from maintaining the wastes' vehicles
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Oct 30, 2020 05:03
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"Tribe" in New Vegas seems to be used pretty interchangeably with "community". Like to Joshua Graham, Goodsprings would presumably be a tribe as well. According to that quote he sure thinks of New Canaan as one
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Oct 30, 2020 05:05
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yeah, id say its pretty clear in NV anyone not aligned with NCR/House/Legion are 'tribes' as far as the powers that be are concerned
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Oct 30, 2020 05:12
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MariusLecter posted:Very technically brilliant but is just a loving rear end in a top hat and sees people as an engineering problem. And does that thing where you don't account for friction or other variables. so basically Elon Musk, if Elon Musk was technically brilliant
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Oct 30, 2020 05:26
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Graham and Daniel refer to themselves and the New Canaanites as a tribe because they're not shitheads and want you to get that they feel their society isn't necessarily special or elevated. New Canaanites came from a Vault. that might be from the Bible, but more likely either rope kid's posts here or blogs since I didn't actually ever read the fallout bible.
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Oct 30, 2020 06:17
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On the contrary, Honest Hearts and Fallout 2 both subscribe to a distinct cultural / aesthetic definition of a tribe. The former is definitely more specific, bc though there are some cultural touchstones / beliefs that distinguish Sulik from Arroyo tribals, he and the Chosen One are viewed the same way, externally. And the differences between tribals and townsfolk are pronounced enough to sort of elide Joshua Graham’s otherwise sensible definition of a Lockean sort of group arrangement. Beyond that, it’s hard to buy that Goodsprings and Novak are seen as “tribes”. They maintain broadly modern, mercantile, non-communal existences, and have no relationship to the land or distinct cultural affinity. Likewise, beyond tensions in Freeside there’s no real bigotry between locals and NCR. Fittingly, it’s the Legion that maintains a xenophobic “citizen / barbarian” dichotomy. Making the families “rehabilitated tribals” (in the narrator’s words) at least plays by the rules laid down by Fallout 2. The village elder is meant to be the Vault Dweller’s daughter, canon has more 13ers following him to join Arroyo, and yet they went full-on subsistence spearhunting and worshipping a mythical “Holy 13” within one generation. Big changes happen quickly in this world. Also the short comic that Dark Horse released as a prelude to New Vegas shows the Chairmen pre-House, and they are Tribal in that distinct, Honest Hearts way. Their thing was a leather biker look and they had an oral historian / poet figure of significance within the tribe who died when they came under House’s sway. It’s coded as a loss of innocence. Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 06:20
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Fwiw Rope Kid has described the handling of the tribes in Honest Hearts as something that should have had a more central focus (would have, but for time and budget constraints) and acknowledges how antiquated they come off.
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Oct 30, 2020 06:28
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rope kid's twitch playthrough inspired me to pick up FNV again. I played it when it came out 10 years ago, but I know I never finished it. I still have all my old saves from then and apparently I only got 20 hours in, whoops! unfortunately I accidentally ran across the most important part of the game pretty early on so I guess I'll wait for the next Fallout!  
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Oct 30, 2020 06:40
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Basic Chunnel posted:Making the families “rehabilitated tribals” (in the narrator’s words) at least plays by the rules laid down by Fallout 2. The village elder is meant to be the Vault Dweller’s daughter, canon has more 13ers following him to join Arroyo, and yet they went full-on subsistence spearhunting and worshipping a mythical “Holy 13” within one generation. Big changes happen quickly in this world. i think this is likely the influence of mad max (Which isnt really a touchstone so much in fallout anymore, 3s probably the last one) on the interplay games but it only kind of works in mad max that within like ten years everyone forgets what a plane is and starts wearing tires and rags and finding new weird religious beliefs, but mad max is almost purely aesthetic. the world building isnt even a consideration or something that needs to make sense besides supporting the themes of each of the movies i dont think it really works as well in fallout though where things are at least an attempt to be more grounded, and your tribe in 2 is probably one of the really more embarrassing parts of the series (to be fair 2 has most of the cringey parts of the series in a lot of ways)
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Oct 30, 2020 07:56
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Chamale posted:None of them will leave if you side with House (or, for that matter, NCR or Yes Man). Veronica will leave if you murder the Brotherhood in her presence, but not if she doesn't witness it. I'm curious about this. Do you need Veronica in your party but not in the bunker when you activate the Brotherhood's self-destruct system, or can you just leave her in the 188 and do it anyway? I'm wondering if she'll somehow magically know that you activated the self-destruct and make a beeline for you, no matter where you are in the map.
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Oct 31, 2020 03:17
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amigolupus posted:I'm curious about this. Do you need Veronica in your party but not in the bunker when you activate the Brotherhood's self-destruct system, or can you just leave her in the 188 and do it anyway? I'm wondering if she'll somehow magically know that you activated the self-destruct and make a beeline for you, no matter where you are in the map. Somebody made a video documenting this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKF-iaxEyA4
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Oct 31, 2020 03:24
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I replicated rope kid's run through Sloan / Scorpion Gulch and thereby ran through Nipton after killing Benny / House and making for the Fort, instead of doing it straight away. Weird to see Vulpes is a bottle blonde, you learn something new every day. When I rolled into Nipton he said "oh it's you, our buddy, the guy who killed House. Pass this message on to the NCR, k?" just before I threw a satchel charge in his face. I did end up breaking a sequence the game couldn't count on, though - the first quest Vulpes has you do from the Fort reveals the mole at McCarran, and Vulpes threatened me with death if anything happened to him... after I'd already blown him up and foiled his plan. Now to play a game where I run "I Put A Spell On You" after having completed that quest. Presumably you're meant to assist the mole at that point.
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Oct 31, 2020 03:33
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NikkolasKing posted:Somebody made a video documenting this Seems like the optimal outcome.
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Oct 31, 2020 03:45
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Berke Negri posted:i think this is likely the influence of mad max (Which isnt really a touchstone so much in fallout anymore, 3s probably the last one) on the interplay games There's some book that the tribal concept is based on, this post is useless since I can't find it but it's a hypothesis from out of Fallout, about how groups of people would adapt after the collapse of civilization.
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Oct 31, 2020 03:55
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That'd definitely be something I'd be curious to take a look at, if you ever stumble across it again in the future.
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Oct 31, 2020 04:29
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NikkolasKing posted:Somebody made a video documenting this "they seemed nice"
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Oct 31, 2020 06:00
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Anybody who likee NV should be playing a game with crippled exp gain. I just did the forlorn hope NCR quest and it was far more interesting at low level. Normally I'd do it pretty late game with 100 in multiple stats this time I had no more than sixty in any stat. Obsidian made options for low medicine characters that really made me appreciate the environmental storytelling. The medical tent is filled with empty ned x needles and bottles of whiskey. It paints a real gruesome picture I probably wouldn't 'ave noticed at 100 medicine in the base game.
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Oct 31, 2020 07:26
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Grand Fromage posted:There's some book that the tribal concept is based on, this post is useless since I can't find it but it's a hypothesis from out of Fallout, about how groups of people would adapt after the collapse of civilization. Canticle for liebowitz?
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Oct 31, 2020 09:17
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Discendo Vox posted:Canticle for liebowitz? No, it's nonfiction.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:00
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So earlier I mentioned Lanius being one of the strongest beings in the game and I just looked up his stats 9 ST, 8 PE, 8 EN, 7 CH, 6 IN, 7 AG, 7 LK Compare with Caesar 6 ST, 5 PE, 6 EN, 4 CH, 4 IN, 5 AG, 5 LK Now, Lanius is smarter than the propaganda about him suggests but I wonder about these numbers. Maybe Caesar has lower numbers because of his age and also a hint about the tumor? I just really doubt Lanius has more INT or CHA than Caesar as per the narrative evidence. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 22:15
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Frank Horrigan has max INT, along with max everything else. Don't read too much into it.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:25
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I believe it's been said by Sawyer (and maybe others) not to read into the SPECIAL stats too much.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:31
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Yeah, like Boone only has 3 INT which I think is what would normally make the Courier have the idiot dialogue.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:34
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2house2fly posted:"Tribe" in New Vegas seems to be used pretty interchangeably with "community". Like to Joshua Graham, Goodsprings would presumably be a tribe as well. According to that quote he sure thinks of New Canaan as one "Tribe" seems to denote an internalized identity that isn't simply a matter of where you reside. If some who lived in Goodsprings went to live somewhere else, they might be "from Goodsprings" but they wouldn't be a "Goodspring(s)er." The Boomers, Khans, Kings, and Strip families are tribes. The Powder Gangers might become a tribe in time. The BoS might be considered one. One of my hobbyhorses about this game is the idea that the primary theme is about symbols and how we use them in the formation of identity, especially group identity.
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Oct 31, 2020 23:00
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S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats in Fallout are like biotruths, phrenology, IQ scores and whatever other pseudoscience rolled in one. You get them at the start of NV from a machine that also can double as a Love Tester or some other cursed carnival machine.  e; Paracelsus posted:One of my hobbyhorses about this game is the idea that the primary theme is about symbols and how we use them in the formation of identity, especially group identity. 
MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 23:03
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Grand Fromage posted:No, it's nonfiction. might be the below report or any of the related books about similar projects: https://www.osti.gov/biblio/6799619 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Interference_Task_Force
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Nov 1, 2020 01:04
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I believe it's been said by Sawyer (and maybe others) not to read into the SPECIAL stats too much. Joshua Graham has 7 EN
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Nov 1, 2020 21:36
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Basic Chunnel posted:Joshua Graham has 7 EN being burned alive and dropped off a canyon cliff will do that to ya more importantly, whats his CHA score
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Nov 1, 2020 22:20
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also 7.
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Nov 1, 2020 22:59
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I always felt like the tribal stuff had a little Earth Abides in it. When did that book come out...
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Nov 1, 2020 23:08
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Fereydun posted:being burned alive and dropped off a canyon cliff will do that to ya CHA: Voiced by Keith Szarabajka/10, the highest amount possible.
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Nov 1, 2020 23:11
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