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I started playing Lichess a couple weeks ago without really knowing anything about competitive chess, and absolutely tanked all the way down to a sub-700 rating in Bullet, I was getting very tilted by that point. Then I switched to Rapid and decided to learn a bit about some of the most common openings. I was losing a lot again for awhile, but something eventually clicked and I gained a lot of rating points, clawing my way to 1100. Can someone explain the Sicilian defense to me? I don't have much of a gameplan as Black besides trying to play efficiently and avoid blunders. Sometimes I get caught off guard by unusual White openings and I end up getting checkmated unexpectedly. My handle is phdhamster on there, I just joined the goon group.
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May 23, 2021 06:37
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 08:12 |
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dhamster posted:I started playing Lichess a couple weeks ago without really knowing anything about competitive chess, and absolutely tanked all the way down to a sub-700 rating in Bullet, I was getting very tilted by that point. Then I switched to Rapid and decided to learn a bit about some of the most common openings. I was losing a lot again for awhile, but something eventually clicked and I gained a lot of rating points, clawing my way to 1100. black plays the sicilian to stop white from playing d4. as in, if white got two moves to start the game most people would play e4 and d4 so the sicilian is an attempt to stop that the sicilian has a lot of well known variations branching out from that basic starting point. it tends to lead to unbalanced positions with a lot of chance for tactics. relatively fewer games end in a draw, so black will often play the sicilian if they’re really trying to win rather than just playing for equality
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May 23, 2021 07:09
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If you're new to chess tanking in bullet is natural, you're basically just clicking random squares and can't reasonably execute checkmate in a lot of situations even from significant material advantage. I'm also a newer player and my 10+0 rating is like 500 higher than my 5+0 rating, let alone bullet.
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May 23, 2021 07:15
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dhamster posted:Can someone explain the Sicilian defense to me? I don't have much of a gameplan as Black besides trying to play efficiently and avoid blunders. Sometimes I get caught off guard by unusual White openings and I end up getting checkmated unexpectedly. My handle is phdhamster on there, I just joined the goon group. Black’s openings usually have three key ideas to them: a way to challenge white’s centre, an avenue for counter play, and some further justification why your position is okay if you don’t overrun white with the first two. (After all, if black could reliably get 1 and 2 then white would simply not play that opening.) Black’s plan to challenge the centre begins with c5, of course, and black takes on d4 in most lines. The second part of challenging the centre usually involves trying to arrange d5. That parts a bit tougher, and you have to make sure it works, but if you get it off you’re usually doing well. What counterplay you’re gonna have is going to depend on the particulars of the position but there are a couple of usual features. The c8 square is great for your rook, and you’re usually going to be attacking on the queenside. This ties in to your further justification, which is that black usually has a much better pawn structure. This means that if you parry white’s initial attack, you’re usually in very good shape. At your level you don’t have to worry too much about concrete plans. Just remember that your most important ideas are keeping your pawns good, trying to keep your pieces coordinated, and (usually) playing for the d5 break.
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May 23, 2021 13:35
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For new players, I think it's really enough to just understand basic opening principles (develop pieces, control the center, etc) and tactics. Then you'll usually get a feel for the game and when you're ready to move on to learning more like openings, etc.
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May 23, 2021 20:52
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don’t forget to learn some endgames. if you don’t know how to force checkmate with king and pieces v king, and you don’t know basic pawn pushing stuff then you’re in for a rough time actually converting anything to a win
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May 24, 2021 01:38
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fart simpson posted:don’t forget to learn some endgames. if you don’t know how to force checkmate with king and pieces v king, and you don’t know basic pawn pushing stuff then you’re in for a rough time actually converting anything to a win Also when you see a middlegame and go, 'i'd win this endgame', and you take all the pieces off the board that feels dope as hell.
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May 24, 2021 11:21
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I flawlessly executed a "Hah, I have this great tactical plan, let me just move my queen over and- oh that square was attacked by a bishop oh." In the final game of my goon tournament. 
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May 26, 2021 17:25
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Just had a weird Queen win. From this position, enemy Bishop took my Bishop. I take back with the h pawn AND OPPONENT IMMEDIATELY SLAMS QUEEN E2 WHY I DON'T UNDERSTAND  I guess if I took back with the f pawn that would be...almost mate? But still not really, can block with Bishop or Queen. And yes, I won that game in the end.
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Jun 3, 2021 10:55
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they were likely just premoved anticipating you taking the bishop with your f pawn and ending up with a queen trade or bishop pin
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Jun 3, 2021 12:41
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I was asked about a position in the discord and I wanna bring it in here because it's instructive. Black agreed to a draw in this position. It's a win, but you need to know a handful of ideas to win it.  The key is that once you get your R to a1 with your pawn to a2, white's king has to stay on h2 and g2. You exploit that to get your king into position, and trade rooks favourably. 1...Ra1 2.Re7 a4 3.Ra7 a3 4.Ra6 a2 This is our basic set up. Now white is locked in place. 5.Ra7 Ra7 is just any passive rook move on the a-file. If white tries to move the king towards the pawn you have 5.Kf2 Rh1 6.Rxa2 Rh2+ 7.Kf3 Rxa2. If white's rook leaves the a-file you have 5.Rb6 Rg1+ 6.Kxg1 a1=Q+. These are your two basic ideas. Your goal now is to use your manoeuvreing advantage to generate a supported passer on the other side of the board. 5...h5 You want to exchange pawns on g4. The reason for this is that white's king, stuck on h2-g2, can defend a pawn on h3 but not on g4. 6.Ra3 or 6.gxh5 Kh6 7.Ra8 Kxh5 8.Ra7 f5 9.Ra8 f4 10.Ra7 f3+ 11.Kf2 Rh1 and we've forced white into one of our two basic ideas from move 5. 6...hxg4 7.hxg4 Kf6 This begins our kings long circuitous walk to g4. We have to exploit another idea to get there. 8.Ra6+ Ke5 9.Ra4 Kd5 10.Ra8 Kc6 11.Ra7 Kb6 Bringing the key to the b-file lets us move the king up the board without white being able to cut us off with the rook. Attempts to check from behind instead just transpose to game line. 12.Ra8 Kb5 13.Ra7 Kb4 14.Ra8 Kb3 15.Rb8+ Kc3 Our king on the 3 opens up a new idea for us. Because black is winning the 2v1 pawn endgame, black can 'defend' the pawn on a2 by threatening a rook trade. This allows black's king to walk along the 3 to white's weak g-pawn. 16.Rc8+ returning behind the a-pawn now fails to the idea we just discussed: 16.Ra8 Rd1 17.Rxa2 Rd2+ 16...Kd3 17.Rd8+ Note that on 17.Ra8 Rc1 18.Ra3+ Rc3 you're also defending against the lateral checks. If white returns to defending passively you walk your king back to supporting the pawn. 19.Ra7 Rc2+ 20.Kf3 Kc3 21.Ke4 Kb2 22.Rb7+ Kc1 23.Ra7 Kb1 24. Rb7+ Rb2 17...Ke3 18.Re8+ again 18.Ra8 Rd1 18...Kf4 19.Ra8 Kxg4 and now black will win after f5-f4-f3. Hand Knit fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 23:02
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Hand Knit posted:I was asked about a position in the discord and I wanna bring it in here because it's instructive. Thanks to you and Yama for taking a look at it. That idea of pushing the pawn into the rook on the back rank is hopefully seared into my head now, because that would have blown the whole thing up. I thought I was fenced-in behind the rook on the e-file and didn't see it at all.
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Jun 6, 2021 03:05
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it was all going over my head, so i keyed it into the lichess analysis board, to have an easier time following along: https://lichess.org/analysis/8/5pk1/7p/p3R1p1/6P1/r6P/6K1/8_b_-_-_0_1  problem with your analysis! stockfish says black is winning until 4...a2, which draws! it says h5 seems to be best for black, and Ra2+ also wins. after that, it's a draw until 14. Ra8, which just loses for white -- it says either Rb7+ or Kh2 still draws!
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Jun 6, 2021 04:20
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Helianthus Annuus posted:stockfish says black is winning until 4...a2, which draws! it says h5 seems to be best for black, and Ra2+ also wins. I checked to see what you are saying but I don't get the same result, Stockfish likes a2. Holy crap does it ever want to play Ra2+ though - even after moving Ra1 it wants you to move back for the check. I don't get it. That might be the kind of weird move that shows why Stockfish isn't the greatest training partner (e.g. neither HIARCS nor Chiron care for that check, they just want to play it like Hand Knit suggested - get the Rook and pawn up in the corner pronto.) Thanks for the lesson HK -> you are right, that was instructive and I really appreciate you taking the time to instruct. The limited options white has for the king while maintaining a defense on that side of the board is something I wouldn't have thought to look at. Ditto the fact that the king moving to the right until the b-file provides for an opportunity for the king to break past the rook to move up the board.
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Jun 6, 2021 05:46
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Which Stockfish are you using? Because the in-built lichess one is all over the place. e: I might've found a way to draw the position. e2: Checking with Dvoretsky like to win this specific position you need to sacrifice the f-pawn to move the rook from in front of the pawn to beside the pawn. e3: Okay, yeah, there does seem to still be a winning line. Hand Knit fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 12:07
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Hand Knit posted:Which Stockfish are you using? Because the in-built lichess one is all over the place. i'm using the built in lichess one, but i dont think there's any problem with it. i'll post a screenshot of the position just before 4...a2 so you can see what it wants to do instead
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Jun 6, 2021 16:37
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and the computer analysis just before 14...Ra8
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Jun 6, 2021 16:39
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Helianthus Annuus posted:and the computer analysis just before 14...Ra8 Hand Knit posted:Which Stockfish are you using? Because the in-built lichess one is all over the place. Yeah, that's this. The point is that white keeps the rook on the 7 so as to be able to play Rxf7 with check. Even though black collects the g-pawn, the 2-0 endgame is still a draw. The Dvoretsky method would involve keeping the pawn on a3.
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Jun 6, 2021 16:52
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Apsyrtes posted:That might be the kind of weird move that shows why Stockfish isn't the greatest training partner (e.g. neither HIARCS nor Chiron care for that check, they just want to play it like Hand Knit suggested - get the Rook and pawn up in the corner pronto.) i dunno... i always prefer using the computer during analysis, because i know i'm not good enough to see everything! but im surprised that your chess engine doesn't like14...Ra7+. what does it think of 14...Ra8? Hand Knit posted:Yeah, that's this. The point is that white keeps the rook on the 7 so as to be able to play Rxf7 with check. Even though black collects the g-pawn, the 2-0 endgame is still a draw. The Dvoretsky method would involve keeping the pawn on a3. are you saying that your plan for black is winning if you delay a2? because that makes sense to me. but i'm just a club player with a chess engine -- for example i dont know what the dvoretsky method is. i would wanna read your corrected analysis, if you think its still instructive. it is so hard to know what to do with a pawn sometimes.
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Jun 6, 2021 20:00
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here's my computer-assisted analysis for how to play a2 and win. i've played the white pieces very passively, because the computer couldn't find any better moves than these. code:
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Jun 6, 2021 20:09
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Helianthus Annuus posted:i dunno... i always prefer using the computer during analysis, because i know i'm not good enough to see everything! Absolutely use an engine, they are helpful and you can learn a lot. Maybe just be more skeptical about the particular engine Stockfish  But I wasn't referring to the 14th move, I was referring to the idea that Ra2+ as a 4th move for black instead of a2 is (according to Stockfish) "the best idea"I just checked and on that 14th move HIARCS likes Rb7+ as a "best move" for white, equal with Kh2. Passive moves with the rook like Ra8 or Ra6 it sees as very much in black's favour. However, that's not important in the context of understanding how to play out such a position.
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Jun 6, 2021 20:32
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Apsyrtes posted:Absolutely use an engine, they are helpful and you can learn a lot. Maybe just be more skeptical about the particular engine Stockfish hm. i thought stockfish beats everything else in tournaments. anyway it thinks move 4 for black should be h5 (-6.7) but Ra2+ (-5.7) is also playable. i like it fine, and besides, this isn't a kings indian or something, it's cranking a win out of a rook and pawn endgame. if you give them enough CPUs, i bet all of them could come up with good enough moves to win with the black pieces! anyway, maybe it underrates the strength of 1...Ra1, but Ra2+ is a pretty good alternative, because it lets you play a2 on move 6!
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Jun 6, 2021 21:29
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A big problem with those sample lines you're giving us is that white doesn't seem to be showing any strategy, and is just randomly moving. So it might tell us that some position is definitive, but it's not going to tell us why. Endgames like this are to be won, lost or drawn (which, coincidentally, means that a difference between the evaluations of -6.7 and -5.7 are entirely fictions of machine evaluation), so what's important is understanding the techniques which work against the strategically best defence. This usually means, fundamentally, how do you win against a passive defence (Kh2-g2), an attempt at trading material, and an attempt at giving endless checks. In the first game you show us, white attempts none of those, instead wandering their king into hopeless danger. The key Dvoretsky idea would be, with R on a1 and pawn on a3, to try and walk the king towards b4. White using the rook to take one of the backwards pawns is met with Rc1, and white returning the rook to the a-file is met with Rc2+ and a2. With the rook now next to the pawn, you should be able to bring your king in to either convert the pawn, support your rook blocking the defending rook, or capture white's kingside pawns.
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Jun 7, 2021 00:02
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Mm true, I was picking the moves for both sides suggested by the computer, and the computer couldn't imagine anything going well for white. it didn't seem fair to pick the more positive moves for white, because they seem to lose faster than doing nothing. so yes, these screenshots don't teach us much. I mainly wanted to prove that stockfish could find checkmate, and was working properly, and not "on the fritz"...
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Jun 7, 2021 01:05
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In endgame evaluation particularly, endgame tablebases make a big difference. If Stockfish is disagreeing with Stockfish, one might be working with a tablebase and one might not.
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Jun 7, 2021 01:23
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 Can somebody help me understand this puzzle? The queen is obviously trapped, so why doesn't white just take one of the rooks with a desperado attack? The engine says -2.40 after 23. Qxf7+ or -1.78 after 23. Qxa8, so why is the computer playing a bishop move that puts things at -3.27? Even giving up the bishop with Qc6 looks better than Bxf5. What am I missing here? Modal Auxiliary fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 00:22
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White isn't playing the mathematically 'best' move here, white's playing the move that makes Black find the only move that wins. I think most of these sorts of puzzles are machine-harvested from games played on the server, so the given line doesn't always make the most practical sense. In this case white plays 1.Bxf5 because Rxb7 is the only winning move: 1.Bxf5 gxf5 2.Qc6 Rc8 3.Qe6 and now white's queen is escaping.
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Jun 8, 2021 00:30
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Okay, thanks. I felt like a crazy person trying to figure it out.
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Jun 8, 2021 14:24
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A HONY story from a chess shop... It'd be cool to visit that place. https://www.facebook.com/humansofnewyork/posts/6052534448153938
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Jun 9, 2021 23:10
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I have no head for endgames. I know it's literally a third of the game but I get so bored without the all laser beams projected by bishops and rooks to watch out for or plan attacks around. I enjoy chess, I love early games where there's a billion and a half threats to watch out for and there's nothing but potential. I'm only 900~ elo (chess.com) so maybe its boring because even odds we draw on things like k+q v k.
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Jun 14, 2021 07:40
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I've had two people on lichess wait for timeout instead of resigning today. One of them left early when I started giving him more time though lol
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Jun 14, 2021 18:10
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BallisticClipboard posted:I have no head for endgames. I know it's literally a third of the game but I get so bored without the all laser beams projected by bishops and rooks to watch out for or plan attacks around. I enjoy chess, I love early games where there's a billion and a half threats to watch out for and there's nothing but potential. I'm only 900~ elo (chess.com) so maybe its boring because even odds we draw on things like k+q v k. Check out Silman's Engame Guide if you haven't, the content is structured by rating so you only have to learn what's relevant for your level. The early chapters are quite digestible and will make endgames more fun for you.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:00
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Lichess also has some helpful tutorials
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Jun 14, 2021 22:07
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BallisticClipboard posted:I have no head for endgames. I know it's literally a third of the game but I get so bored without the all laser beams projected by bishops and rooks to watch out for or plan attacks around. I enjoy chess, I love early games where there's a billion and a half threats to watch out for and there's nothing but potential. I'm only 900~ elo (chess.com) so maybe its boring because even odds we draw on things like k+q v k. it's odd, i find something very appealing about playing the mechanical precision of a king and pawn endgame(even if i'm bad at it), but i absolutely can't stand a rook and pawn endings. watching the games of high level players, i can't even begin to understand half the rook moves that are made
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Jun 15, 2021 18:57
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Is it rude to have takebacks disabled on lichess? I don't ask for them myself, and I feel uncomfortable letting people take back obvious blunders. Some people have complained about this to me, though.
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Jun 16, 2021 17:45
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dhamster posted:Is it rude to have takebacks disabled on lichess? I don't ask for them myself, and I feel uncomfortable letting people take back obvious blunders. Some people have complained about this to me, though. Neither ask for nor grant any takebacks.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:49
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Yeah I never ask for or grant takebacks, whether it's a casual or rated game. Blunders and even mouse slips are part of the game and you need to be incentivized to watch out and prevent them. The only possible exception I might consider is if the opponent moved his king one square where they were almost certainly trying to castle. People are very casual about trying to take back blunders but how are you supposed to determine whether they just blundered and didn't see that they were hanging their queen or piece and just want a do over versus something like a mouse slip? If you take a competitive approach to the game how would you feel if you granted a takeback where the opponent blundered away a serious amount of material and then won the game? If I make a serious blunder like that, if I feel the position afterwards is hopeless, I just resign and grant my opponent the win. Part of being a better player and winning is just making less mistakes, or less serious ones. But yeah, it's common for people to rage if you don't grant a takeback. Too bad, I still don't do it.
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Jun 16, 2021 19:02
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It's good that I can just disable them in the settings, since 'I can't turn them back on' tends to be a pretty good way to handle the situation
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Jun 16, 2021 19:16
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Play in zen mode imo so you don't even see chat
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Jun 16, 2021 19:17
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https://lichess.org/buJgKI5v/black I found myself behind in material early on and I lost the opportunity to castle, so I thought I was screwed at first, but I saw the other guy's king was vulnerable so I just started applying a lot of pressure and it worked out. Still learning the basics, games are a blunder fest at this level e:  Something I see a bit of in the 1200 range is people going for scholar's mate. I read an article or two and learned a bit about the weakness of the f7 square. This time I waited until they brought their queen out to reinforce f7, and I realized they had no backup plan when they threw their queen away on the next move. dhamster fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 20:00
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