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ManSedan posted:So that’s it? Some kind of Neon Genesis?  
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Aug 15, 2021 14:02
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Raxivace posted:EDIT: I don't think 3.0+1.0 ever shared the "(Not)" thing in the various English titles either come to think of it. It did not.
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Aug 15, 2021 15:19
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I don't 4.0 swerved away from 3.0 really. 3.0 was the down point that needed to exist before 4.0. To use a cliche it's the Empire Strikes Back. The catharsis in it wouldn't be meaningful if the previous episode had been all about Shinji winning with guts and hope.
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Aug 15, 2021 15:34
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chiasaur11 posted:I mean, 3 swerved away from 2, and 2 swerved from 1. To the extent there was a wider plan for this series (which there actually seems to have been from some of the setups and interviews) it involved a lot of fakeouts. I'm going off the various Wikipedia pages here but apparently by the end there was no plan and part of the reason the final movie took so long and Anno did other projects was because he didn't know what to do and fell into depression again. One of the main people working on the Rebuilds stated that apparently the original plan was to stick to the original story for 90% (or close) of the Rebuilds and only change at the very end. As they progressed through the project however they decided to change things much earlier which culminated in 3.0 being a huge departure which left Anno not knowing how to conclude afterwards (part of this was also the mixed reactions apparently helping to push him back into depression). What I've picked up on when reading about the production history however is that a lot of the cast and crew said that Anno really did change a lot throughout the production of the Rebuilds and during development of Thrice Upon a Time was a very different person. Due to having wrestled with depression once more and struggling with writer's block he was apparently asking everyone what they thought and their ideas for various things. This ranged from Shinji's voice actress (she revealed Anno couldn't relate to Shinji any more and would ask her how she thought it should end as he found himself relating more to Gendo) and even random staff in the building, being very friendly and bouncing ideas off secretaries for example and sincerely caring about their feedback. Apparently this was very new for everyone but a really pleasant experience that they felt was important, and Anno taking time out to work under Miyazaki again (who was apparently his mentor?) and also direct Shin Godzilla changed him for the better. Anno also stated that he didn't want to have complete control over the Rebuilds and instead use the opportunity to pass the torch to a younger generation of creators instead to revitalize the industry. I forget whom exactly but a long-time senior on the crew stepped down to let someone younger take the reigns and Anno did apparently defer a lot of ideas and story to the younger talent in the studio, both partly due to him wrestling with depression once more but also being eager to use the opportunity to push new talent in the industry using the biggest platform that's available. It sounds like a lot of what was happening internally in the studio played a key part in helping Anno to grow as a person and Thrice Upon a Time definitely reflects that, I think. I also read that apparently Anno had trouble keeping Thrice Upon a Time at the length that it was, despite already being so long he had trimmed thirty minutes or so off already it seems. I'm really fond of the film and the ending we got but looking into what was happening behind the scenes only elevates it in my opinion, especially since they once again break the fourth wall so knowing how things played out in reality as this was made makes it more impactful than it already was, in my opinion. Knowing that Anno himself really changed and grew throughout the process himself after slipping into depression again compliments the story a lot. I haven't watched the documentary but am looking forward to doing so when I have the chance. Apparently there was some frustration for Anno and others regarding it as key things were not included and some significant things were presented incorrectly? Having enjoyed the film so much however, reading about the production on various Wikipedia pages has elevated it even further for me. Reading how the process bettered Anno as a person and seeing the positive impact it has had on a lot of people only makes it greater, in my opinion. Huge fan of EoE and also very glad that the Rebuilds exist and were concluded in the way that they were. If Anno ever does decide to return to show the events of the time-gap (or others do) I'll definitely be excited to watch it, but as it is I think everything concluded in the best way possible, both on and off screen.
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Aug 15, 2021 15:42
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Enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I would. 2.0 and 3.0 rubbed me the wrong way for various reasons, but this more or less redeemed the rebuilds for me. Gratuitous fan service, and weightless CG fight scenes aside. That being said nothing will ever come close to the ego death trip that is EoE.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:23
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wedgie deliverer posted:It was good. Yea, it was a rehash in a certain sense, but where EoE was (justifiably) hostile to the audience, this felt like emotional closure from Anno and the sadbrain teenager who fell in love with this series in the first place. 
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Aug 15, 2021 16:41
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There were a bunch of sequences I really didn't like, mainly around how they were rushing through a checklist of esoteric ritual stuff they needed to do to trigger the apocalypse again, but Misato with her old hair smashing through God with Ode to Joy blasting out is a scene I'm gonna remember for a long time.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:46
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Even after watching it I don't really get why it was called 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon A Time. Like it kinda makes sense cus of time loop stuff but also not really.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:50
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CodfishCartographer posted:Even after watching it I don't really get why it was called 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon A Time. 1st time loop: Congratulations. 2nd time loop: End of Evangelion. 3rd time loop: Sorry Shinji if I messed up -- Dad. Also the fact that Shinji, Rei and Asuka are free to live as people free from Nerv and Seele's control. I also loved that in the final scene Rei and Kaworu are at the train station in the background, but more as if they were going on a date, more than there to spook Shinji. e: sorry for the wrong tags guys 
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Aug 15, 2021 16:56
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CodfishCartographer posted:Even after watching it I don't really get why it was called 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon A Time. May be a reference to this old novel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrice_Upon_a_Time though there aren't a lot of shared themes from what I remember of it.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:59
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limaCAT posted:
Once again Evangelion ends with a distant shot of Rei Ayanami, but this time she’s no longer looking at Shinji expectantly.
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Aug 15, 2021 18:09
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Pierson posted:There were a bunch of sequences I really didn't like, mainly around how they were rushing through a checklist of esoteric ritual stuff they needed to do to trigger the apocalypse again, but Misato with her old hair smashing through God with Ode to Joy blasting out is a scene I'm gonna remember for a long time. It helped tremendously that the Ritual Apocalypse Checklist stuff largely ends when Mari yells that Longinus is a metaphor for Despair, Cassius is a metaphor for Hope, but the final magic spear that Misato and Ritsuko are gifting to Shinji, the one that's actually going to allow him to change, is a metaphor for Willpower
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Aug 15, 2021 19:58
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I kind of appreciate Anno's steadfast commitment to NEVER show Unit-04 on screen in any canon capacity. It's pointedly absent from the sequence where Shinji is erasing all the Evangelions and their variants. Like, the arm doohickeys and the walking generators and the rail gun that were like "Mark 4-beta" or whatever were there. But Unit-04 itself? Nope, sorry chief. Sir Never Appearing In This Franchise. I wonder if it's not there because it already took care of permanently erasing itself from reality back in 2.22?
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Aug 15, 2021 20:11
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I can’t believe no one predicted a third spear being named Gaius. I mean of course if there’s a Cassius there’s going to be a Gaius to make a full Gaius Cassius Longinus. I mean it’s the the wrong Longinus but still.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:34
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Midjack posted:May be a reference to this old novel: Just going by the plot summary the novel ends with the protagonists, once again strangers, meeting by chance in a third timeline where the catastrophes of the first two have presumably been averted. It feels appropriate that the movie straight-up references events rather than it being some more obscure thematic parallel. LordMune fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 20:41
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LordMune posted:Just going by the plot summary the novel ends with the protagonists, once again strangers, meeting by chance in a third timeline where the catastrophies of the first two have presumably been averted. It feels appropriate that the movie straight-up references events rather than it being some more obscure thematic parallel. Yeah I could buy that, I forgot the ending of the book.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:27
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AU where Anno never read Carl Jung and everyone lived happily ever after
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Aug 15, 2021 21:41
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Lazy sunday ruminations: Given the assumption that Anno's done, what else could they do? My most horrific idea is a gritty origin story around Yui and young Gendo. There is nothing on the planet that i want to exist less. I guess they could go back to MOTW with new characters but i don't think it'd be doable with the characters we already know
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Aug 15, 2021 21:47
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There's tons of stuff they could do. Fill in between Rebuild 2 and 3, animate the Girlfriend of Steel games or any of the other spin-offs including the mainline manga with Matrix Gendo stopping bullets and Kaworu breaking a kitten's neck, tell the stories of the destructions of Tokyo 1 and 2, etc. I want none of it.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:51
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I think i could tolerate an extremely slice-of-life series where they just showed the boring poo poo about tokyo 3. the misato apartment scenes and laundry day were, for some reason, some of the most charming bits of the series to me. but there are probably 10000 existing series' that could scratch that itch I've slowly been working through one of my premiere projects which is basically a compilation of every scene in the series that has no dialogue and no main characters on screen. all vibes
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Aug 15, 2021 21:55
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the documentary is cool to see not just how they worked on it but also how uncomfortable Anno is being filmed
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Aug 15, 2021 21:59
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I'd like a proper animated manga adaptation as a seasonal anime at some point FMA, Fruits Basket, and Shaman King all got that treatment, after all
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Aug 15, 2021 22:06
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Shave Impact 4Koma
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Aug 15, 2021 22:13
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FilthyImp posted:Shave Impact 4Koma yes
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Aug 15, 2021 22:25
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So I watched through all 4 movies this weekend, and I enjoyed the trip. The one part that I really enjoyed partially because I know it will piss off so many people is that the final 45 minutes to an hour of 3.0+1.01 is basically just the original ending of Evangelion, but with Gendo and Kaworu also getting the "So... wanna talk about what's bugging you?" treatment that Shinji and Asuka went through, and Misato going out like a boss. I can only assume that what happened was Yui and Gendo used the spear to transcend time, went back to the time of the Precursor race before they launched their bioseeds all across the universe, and Yui went full Karen on them, demanding they send Adam somewhere else. I mean, I know that isn't what happened, but it's still a funny mental image. Whether or not she's human or Unit 01 is up to you for which would make the funnier mental image.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:31
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Jonny 290 posted:I think i could tolerate an extremely slice-of-life series where they just showed the boring poo poo about tokyo 3. the misato apartment scenes and laundry day were, for some reason, some of the most charming bits of the series to me. but there are probably 10000 existing series' that could scratch that itch I will say two things. One, because I endlessly like to feel helpful, Evangelion has two slice of life series: Angelic Days and The Shinji Ikari Rising Project. I can't speak for their quality. The later is pure slice of life whereas the former still has Evangelions. There is also the Evangelion Anima series that proposes an alternate future for Evangelion where EoE did not resultin Third Impact. I personally didn't love Anima but its funny to see some of its ideas in 3.0+1.0. Secondly, however, I would suggest letting Evangelion die. Instead, consider focusing your energy on what Evangelion meant to you. While I never finished it, I once did a novella on my reimagining and modernization of a comic that mattered to me as a kid, Ranma 1/2. The story took inspiration but was a complete reimagining with new characters, setting, themes, etc. to explore my trans identity. You clearly have a connection with Evangelion. Instead of focusing on rewatching it or filing in its details, consider why it speaks to you and make a project that expresses what you learned from it, what you felt it could do better, etc and, most importantly, make it your project in your own manner. Even if you never release it, let alone finish it, I think that might be more fulfilling. My unfinished novella allowed me to later create a few other reimaginings of different stories I enjoyed as games that people have actually enjoyed. Covok fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 22:31
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those are really good thoughts and i'm receiving them. It is a good point. Now is probably the best time ever to put it back on the shelf, right? Any time before and the story wasn't finished; keep it on life support for too much longer and I'm either recycling content or being disappointed at lower quality future media. Though i'm still going to package up a Oh, that? That's a cat clip because it's delivered perfectly and will be a good meme response.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:51
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mistermojo posted:the documentary is cool to see not just how they worked on it but also how uncomfortable Anno is being filmed
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Aug 15, 2021 23:14
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Jonny 290 posted:Lazy sunday ruminations: Dinosaur Comics except it's the Toast Rei universe storyboard
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Aug 16, 2021 00:02
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I was extremely satisfied when Gendo and Shinji finally just talk, and it flips the self-realization in instrumentality to Gendo. I also loved the nod to Separation Anxiety at the start of that sequence. Teared up just a bit when Yui appears to Shinji Also, gendo's design is just so cool. Especially when they do side shots to show you he really is hollowed out. Overall, quite liked it. It's no EoE, but it was a satisfying end to the rebuilds.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:06
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I remember watching 3.33 at a film festival years ago and walking out thinking "I didnt hate it but my long term feelings on this will depend on what they do with 4", and in no way did I think it would take 9 years to get my answer to that question, but holy hell did they ever stick the landing on this. I have seen 1.11 so many times that I didnt rewatch it this time, but I did watch 2 and 3 the night before to jog my memory of the minutiae, and honestly I think its helped totally reignite my love for this series, which admittedly had dimmed a bit over the years from lack of interaction. Eva will always be my favourite anime, there is just nothing that comes close to it. 3.33 as a lead up to 3+1 is absolutely incredible. It sets the tone beautifully, and I am so glad that now I have the last film to recontextualize it, i love it so much more than I previously did. 3+1 is just incredible. It was an absolute emotional tour de force and I am so glad they managed to balance itself so well. Shinji needed time to come to terms with what he had done, and it would have been a total slog to watch if it were not for the wonderful glimpse into the daily lives of their friends that overcame the horrors of N3i. Rei re-learning human kindness and empathy was fantastic and I love everything they did with her in this film. After poo poo gets real again, It was a risky gamble to have the film mirror the End of Evangelion so closely, it could have come across very badly, but those events seen anew through the lens of Shinjis new found convictions and maturity worked extremely well to not only be cathartic and fan servicy, but take the films full circle as the "rebuild" of Evangelion. There were so so many times during this film where it looked like it was about to do one thing, and then it just subverted itself and did another. As mentioned by others, stuff like the initial fight scenes between Unit 3 and 13 had me wtfing, until It clicked that it was a film set, and the film was breaking the 4th wall. And it pulled this same trick several times in the film, and each time was great. All that said, there remains 2 things which I feel is a shame. The first is that I never really have ever clicked with Mari as a character, and this film did nothing to help. The only part of the ending which I didnt really love was Shinji and Mari. I dont think that shes had even nearly enough impact on the series for her to end up in that position, but someone earlier in the thread said something like "shes there to show he importance of meeting new people", and I can kind of accept that. I still dont really like it, but I suppose its a minor gripe over all. The other thing I am a bit sad about is that I no longer have anything to anticipate in regards to Eva. I think this film bookended things very neatly and while I will always kind of crave more, I think this is the point where it needs to end. Its just always been something to look forward to for so long that I kind of feel its absence in a strange way.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:07
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after so many long years, the waifu wars have been lost...Jonny 290 posted:Lazy sunday ruminations: I'd like to imagine the eva series will get to rest but lol they have pimped the poo poo out of it by now so there's no way that's happening huh? 
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Aug 16, 2021 00:14
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Mari is the first person Shinji is ever shown to have a successful flirty conversation with in a healthy adult way rather than being some degree of extremely uncomfortably hosed up. That alone basically settled the "oh, okay, I'm okay with how this ends up" thing for me because it's the first time I've seen any relationship in Evangelion look like something that involves two people who like each other instead of horrifying red flags everywhere. Well besides Toji and Hikari who are basically adorable married dorks.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:17
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ImpAtom posted:Mari is the first person Shinji is ever shown to have a successful flirty conversation with in a healthy adult way rather than being some degree of extremely uncomfortably hosed up. That alone basically settled the "oh, okay, I'm okay with how this ends up" thing for me because it's the first time I've seen any relationship in Evangelion look like something that involves two people who like each other instead of horrifying red flags everywhere. Yeah that bit at the end with "Guess who?" / "Uh.. a girl with glasses and big boobs?" was enough to sell me on the idea of Shinji and Mari as a functional adult couple in a healthy relationship--doubly so because everyone else but Kaworu who he's been paired with up to this point was unbelievably toxic for him, and him for them.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:30
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I think 3.33 makes perfect sense in the context of the movie that followed. Communication has always been a theme of the series, so it made some sense to have a film where the entire problem basically only happens due to a communications breakdown. The contrast to 3+1 where people explain what's going on, how they feel and give each other some space is very marked.Jonny 290 posted:Lazy sunday ruminations:
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Aug 16, 2021 00:30
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The most anybody who ships Shinji with Asuka or Rei could reasonably hope for is exactly what they did. Admit that they had mutual feelings for each other, but it's a bad idea anyway
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Aug 16, 2021 00:40
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Roth posted:The most anybody who ships Shinji with Asuka or Rei could reasonably hope for is exactly what they did. Yeah, I really genuinely appreciate the outcome for all of the ships being "You know, this is really incredibly unhealthy." Even Kaworu basically was defined by Shinji and Shinji alone so it's nice to see his outcome being "Oh, uh, maybe I can have a life that isn't entirely focused around Shinji Ikari." If I have one major disappointment it is that I would have loved to see more Kaworu and Kaji interaction because that is certainly a duo who I never goddamn expected but are interesting together.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:42
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah that bit at the end with "Guess who?" / "Uh.. a girl with glasses and big boobs?" was enough to sell me on the idea of Shinji and Mari as a functional adult couple in a healthy relationship--doubly so because everyone else but Kaworu who he's been paired with up to this point was unbelievably toxic for him, and him for them. Honestly I've always thought Shinji's relationship with Kaworu wasn't particularly healthy. He's never really treated Shinji as a person, he just fawned over him with Shinji not having to do anything or grow as a person. He enabled Shinji to be his worst self and just said "I love you anyways!" When you're super deep in depression you want someone like this, and it can be comforting, but it's not a long-term solution. It's not as obviously toxic or abusive as his other relationships, but it's unhealthy overall because it essentially enables Shinji's worst aspects. Toji, Kensuke, and Lookalike all provided much healthier friendships as they were just as supportive, but in a way that encouraged him to grow as a person.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:45
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Jonny 290 posted:Lazy sunday ruminations: I mean, the movie literally ends with them saying 'goodbye, all of Evangelion'. Like, a character actually says that.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:47
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CodfishCartographer posted:Honestly I've always thought Shinji's relationship with Kaworu wasn't particularly healthy. He's never really treated Shinji as a person, he just fawned over him with Shinji not having to do anything or grow as a person. He enabled Shinji to be his worst self and just said "I love you anyways!" When you're super deep in depression you want someone like this, and it can be comforting, but it's not a long-term solution. It's not as obviously toxic or abusive as his other relationships, but it's unhealthy overall because it essentially enables Shinji's worst aspects. And I realized that shortly after I posted that. Kaworu is simply the least overtly harmful of Shinji's various non-Mari suitors and Shinji telling him all of that ^^^^ just phrased differently during Final Impact and going "dude, you have to let me go and live for yourself already" was a nice touch.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:48
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