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Section Z posted:My first playthrough as an Engineer, I was actually mildly jealous of Tali because her Gameplay was vastly different than her lore. I think Tali as ~*fragile space waifu*~ got overhyped by segments of the fan community. She's a legit badass. But when you rescue her she's in way over her head being hunted by a rogue specter with no allies or safe place to turn to.
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Sep 19, 2021 12:55
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Section Z posted:My first playthrough as an Engineer, I was actually mildly jealous of Tali because her Gameplay was vastly different than her lore. To be fair, Tali has very poor health, and armor for her that could increase her damage protection is very rare. The Shields, awesome as they are, are all she has going for her survivability-wise. And stuff like Rachni completely ignore them.
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Sep 19, 2021 15:17
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Tempest doesn't have a gun, kinda dumb imo
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Sep 19, 2021 17:20
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where we’re going we don’t need guns 
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Sep 19, 2021 17:47
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BlazetheInferno posted:To be fair, Tali has very poor health, and armor for her that could increase her damage protection is very rare. The Shields, awesome as they are, are all she has going for her survivability-wise. And stuff like Rachni completely ignore them. There isn't a whole lot that just ignores shields like that though, and her absurd shield stat coupled with the recharge ability means she can wade through gunfire no problem. Of course, being a ridiculous, unkillable wall in me1 is the rule, not the exception. Specifically that exception is garrus, the only character in game to not have barrier, immunity or tali's comical bonus of over 500 to her shields.
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Sep 19, 2021 18:08
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I think Drack works as a mirror to Wrex. Where Wrex is pretty dour and only opens up after you do a lot of work to help him and his race, but will be pretty open about his personal concerns and observations about the Krogan, Drack is pretty open and friendly from the start, and jokes around with the crew a lot, but only opens up about his personal worries and issues with himself and the Krogan over time. Plus Drack is so old he's essentially a good base of what a Krogan was before the genophage, compared to Wrex and a lot of ME3 stuff where it does only give hints of what they actually were like.
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Sep 19, 2021 20:31
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exquisite tea posted:I think the reason why Tali and Garrus are remembered fondly really isn't for their arcs in ME1, but for the familiarity factor carrying into ME2. Their characterizations in the first game are pretty one-note, which is true for most of the cast. Tali is a Quarian exposition machine and Garrus just keeps asking you whether he should be a good spacecop or a bad spacecop. Without ME2 evolving their characterization in a satisfying way I think they would fall just as flat as the human companions. In ME1 Tali and Garrus first and foremost had to be your introductions and windows into Quarians and Turians respectively; it'd be extremely difficult having them serve as examples of their races while also showcase how they differ from them as well, except in the broadest terms and in ways that can be used to further explore the races as a whole. So, in ME2, with that legwork done, they get to be their own people.
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Sep 19, 2021 23:11
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Big disagree on Garrus at least. His angst in 1 about leaving the force and killing Dr. Heart vs arresting him wasn't incredible or anything but it was a lot better than his drama in 2 about getting his team killed while hunting gang members. Garrus just sucks in 2. If Bioware had unlimited resources there should have been an alternate path depending on how you dealt with him in 1 where he shows up as part of the establishment like Kaiden / Ashley instead of turning into the dollar store Punisher.
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Sep 19, 2021 23:51
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Randallteal posted:Big disagree on Garrus at least. His angst in 1 about leaving the force and killing Dr. Heart vs arresting him wasn't incredible or anything but it was a lot better than his drama in 2 about getting his team killed while hunting gang members. Garrus just sucks in 2. If Bioware had unlimited resources there should have been an alternate path depending on how you dealt with him in 1 where he shows up as part of the establishment like Kaiden / Ashley instead of turning into the dollar store Punisher. Counterpoint his recruitment mission is one of if not the best in the game, so
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Sep 20, 2021 03:27
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Randallteal posted:Big disagree on Garrus at least. His angst in 1 about leaving the force and killing Dr. Heart vs arresting him wasn't incredible or anything but it was a lot better than his drama in 2 about getting his team killed while hunting gang members. Garrus just sucks in 2. If Bioware had unlimited resources there should have been an alternate path depending on how you dealt with him in 1 where he shows ⁹up as part of the establishment like Kaiden / Ashley instead of turning into the dollar store Punisher. Wouldn't even be too hard to keep the same plot. Just change the setup to "well I was on loan with my team as a political favor, one thing lead to another and well..."
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Sep 20, 2021 03:39
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Garrus as the guy who always 100% has Shepard's back but also needs Shepard around to keep them from succumbing to the dark side is an aspect of the character I have come to appreciate.
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Sep 20, 2021 06:53
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Bongo Bill posted:Garrus as the guy who always 100% has Shepard's back but also needs Shepard around to keep them from succumbing to the dark side is an aspect of the character I have come to appreciate. I really wish I could make myself play as evil Shepard just to so the archangel plot makes sense In other news, playing Andromeda and it seems mostly not bad? Like, I'm only to Eos and it looks like there is a sandboxy exploration game on the horizon, so I should be prepared for more planet 7 but with other biomes, so as long as I don't make the mistake of playing this like a bioware plot driven game I should be fine Also, all of the characters have droopy eyes so obviously the whole ark either suffered a stroke or is high as a loving kite the whole time, so I can understand some really dumb choices
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Sep 20, 2021 16:45
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RFC2324 posted:I really wish I could make myself play as evil Shepard just to so the archangel plot makes sense I really enjoyed the kind of sandboxy "dick around, pick up missions, do the ones you felt like, head off to map markers, do sick jumps off obstacles in the Nomad" kinda open parts of Andromeda. The planet where you can't drive the Nomad sucks, because I wanted to jump over that big stupid trench. I ended up leaving most of the main missions as late as I could in each section of the game and then just ran through them in a couple of afternoons to finish things off once I'd done everything else that seemed interesting (although some of the main missions unlock More Stuff To Do or various subquests obviously). For people who want a short, tight and focussed game tho, Andromeda is very much not that I imagine. Edit: I also installed a ton of QoL mods that people upthread somewhere suggested so that probably helped the experience.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:07
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Andromeda works fine as a short, focused game as the broader open world busywork stuff just doesn't matter and isn't very fun or interesting after you do the first handful of quests on the first planet. The big issue is that it's two different games mashed together due to disastrous project planning and management. It pays lip service towards being a first contact, exploration and outpost building experience, and does have a volume of quests and planets to back that up even if they're bland and repetitive, but the narrative is about zooming around to rescue your people and find the magical doodad(s), defeat the big villain to save the day. It's a consistently contradictory experience.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:57
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in ME2, Garrus has one of the best recruitment missions, but Tali's loyalty mission is hands down the best loyalty mission (especially if you do it with Legion). Garrus' Loyalty mission is pretty meh. For me in ME2 Tali and Garrus are helped by me liking less of the ME2 squad mates at a general level. I don't like jack, miranda or Zaeed. Jacob, Kasumi and Samara I'm lukewarm about and Grunt is just kind of annoying (although is dossier is cute). I like mordin, legion, garrus and tali. I think upon replays it's also helpful that Garrus and Tali are the only squadmates you can play through the entire trilogy with. With Garrus specifically I think it's a little interesting as I don't like him in ME1, I find him pretty annoying. In ME2 his whole "good cop who's inhibited by red tap" thing is the same, but the way he is written changes a little and he is much more fun to be around going from a character I don't like to one I really like.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:20
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TheGreySpectre posted:in ME2, Garrus has one of the best recruitment missions, but Tali's loyalty mission is hands down the best loyalty mission (especially if you do it with Legion). Garrus' Loyalty mission is pretty meh. Tali's loyalty is very whatever to me because fighting geth is less interesting to me than most mercenary encounters (especially in something like Garrus recruitment where you fight multiple different permutations of every different gang and enemy type). Also, you have to humor the quarians way too much about their bullshit in ME2, they are an extremely unsympathetic group
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Sep 20, 2021 19:17
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Wolfsheim posted:fighting geth is less interesting to me than most mercenary encounters I find the geth and mercenary fights to be very similar for me. Both of them I feel like I just hide in cover and shoot people in the face for both. The only enemy that I feel mixes things up out of those two is if you let the flamethrower guys get close but they are uncommon and only change things if you don't shoot them first.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:23
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Wolfsheim posted:Tali's loyalty is very whatever to me because fighting geth is less interesting to me than most mercenary encounters (especially in something like Garrus recruitment where you fight multiple different permutations of every different gang and enemy type). I do like how after being told you need to find evidence and can’t just talk your way out of it, the arguably best ending is to say screw the evidence and talk your way out of it.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:36
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bobjr posted:I do like how after being told you need to find evidence and can’t just talk your way out of it, the arguably best ending is to say screw the evidence and talk your way out of it. Isn't presenting the evidence actually one of the worst endings?
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Sep 20, 2021 19:49
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Wolfsheim posted:Tali's loyalty is very whatever to me because fighting geth is less interesting to me than most mercenary encounters (especially in something like Garrus recruitment where you fight multiple different permutations of every different gang and enemy type). I'm perpetually annoyed that there isn't an option to smash Xen and the War Hawk admiral's faceplates together and then space them. They ignore your pleas to not start the war, do it anyways, commit several war crimes in the process, and endanger their civilian population, and the most you can do is punch the guy and tell him to get off your ship.
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Sep 20, 2021 20:05
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one thing that me3 kinda just glosses over is that the war hawks are overtly lovely but admiral whatshername, tali's very friendly mentor was the deciding vote to go to war with the geth
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Sep 20, 2021 20:19
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the quarians are extremely jarring to me, because they are kind of set up to be sympathetic, and clearly the author of that part was "we must be wary of letting our technology get out of our control", but are they revealed to be genocidal monsters who started the whole thing yet there is a strong vein of just expecting us to still side with them. Like... we are just expected to accept that doing the monstrous thing was a necessary evil, and even after the game points out how monstrous it was we are still expected to accept it. it seems like at no point does anyone writing the game think "maybe there is a route they could have taken that WASN'T monstrous?"
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Sep 21, 2021 00:53
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Speaking of the Quarians, seeing as I've only played through ME3 once I haven't been able to try this - what happens if you side with the Geth against their makers, then pick the destroy ending - thus wiping out the Geth? Does it touch on the subject of what happened in that region of space, at all?
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Sep 21, 2021 01:12
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Major Isoor posted:Speaking of the Quarians, seeing as I've only played through ME3 once I haven't been able to try this - what happens if you side with the Geth against their makers, then pick the destroy ending - thus wiping out the Geth? Does it touch on the subject of what happened in that region of space, at all? I don’t think they reference it again. On another note, the first time I played through and was romancing Tali and accidentally supported Legion during Priority Rannoch. What a bummer. ME3 goes after the feels on a lot of your dick moves. Like betraying Wrex actually made me feel like a bad person.
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Sep 21, 2021 01:24
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denimgorilla posted:I don’t think they reference it again. On another note, the first time I played through and was romancing Tali and accidentally supported Legion during Priority Rannoch. What a bummer. ME3 goes after the feels on a lot of your dick moves. Like betraying Wrex actually made me feel like a bad person. Ah, that's a shame. Would've been cool (in a sad way) if they even just briefly showed the Quarian home system desolate, with deactivated geth ships and wrecks of Quarian ships floating around, or something. Also yeah, I can't imagine betraying Wrex and his people.  And I didn't think of romancing Tali and then betraying the Quarians. THAT would create some issues with the relationship, that's for sure!  I assume Tali firmly "nopes" out of working with Shep after that debacle
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Sep 21, 2021 01:34
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Major Isoor posted:THAT would create some issues with the relationship, that's for sure! She nopes out of everything
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Sep 21, 2021 01:41
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Major Isoor posted:Speaking of the Quarians, seeing as I've only played through ME3 once I haven't been able to try this - what happens if you side with the Geth against their makers, then pick the destroy ending - thus wiping out the Geth? Does it touch on the subject of what happened in that region of space, at all? If you have high enough Paragon or Renegade, you can basically end the war by yelling at the Quarians. In my previous playthroughs, I've instructed Legion (never lost a single person on the suicide mission in ME:2 because my FemShep looks after her peeps  ). That prevents the Quarians and the Geth wiping each other out, but Legion sacrifices his own life to complete the Geth upgrade, and the Geth and Quarians reach some level of synthesis (Tali mentions that the Geth are uploading their AI into the Quarian suits to boost their immune systems and making the suits far more efficient, among other things, which is pushing the Quarians towards being able to survive outside of their suits indefinitely decades centuries closer than they'd initially thought).The Destroy ending wipes the Geth out anyway, along with EDI. If you're super attached to the Geth and EDI - who loving rules - then you need to go with the Synthesis or Control endings, regardless of the outcome of the Quarian-Geth war. The Catalyst tells us that choosing to destroy the Reapers will destroy all synthetic life, so we see EDI's name on the memorial wall on the Normandy, and the Geth simply don't appear in the PowerPoint presentation at the end. In the Synthesis ending, EDI narrates it, and we see the Geth and Quarians hanging out together on a highly advanced and developed planet (presumably Rannoch), and in the Control ending, EDI appears at the Memorial Wall scene, and you see the Geth hanging out with the ReapSheps in the slideshow.
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Sep 21, 2021 01:59
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Speaking of control ending. Years ago someone posted a drawing of reaper shep drinking a space margarita while harby rebuilt a mass relay. Any chance someone still has that handy?
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Sep 21, 2021 02:08
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Major Isoor posted:Ah, that's a shame. Would've been cool (in a sad way) if they even just briefly showed the Quarian home system desolate, with deactivated geth ships and wrecks of Quarian ships floating around, or something. Lol. In all seriousness though yeah, she actually jumps off a cliff.
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Sep 21, 2021 02:33
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the mass effect trilogy often feels like the writers had vague ideas of a plot instead of an actual, crafted plan
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Sep 21, 2021 02:41
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Best Friends posted:She nopes out of everything Bismack Billabongo posted:Lol. Oh boy, that was darker than I was expecting! I guess it's kinda understandable though, when it looks like your entire species is about to go down the drain
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Sep 21, 2021 02:44
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TheGreySpectre posted:I find the geth and mercenary fights to be very similar for me. Both of them I feel like I just hide in cover and shoot people in the face for both. The only enemy that I feel mixes things up out of those two is if you let the flamethrower guys get close but they are uncommon and only change things if you don't shoot them first. Do I NEED the option to instantly kill flamethrower users? No. Is it always funny, every single time? yes. RFC2324 posted:the quarians are extremely jarring to me, because they are kind of set up to be sympathetic, and clearly the author of that part was "we must be wary of letting our technology get out of our control", but are they revealed to be genocidal monsters who started the whole thing yet there is a strong vein of just expecting us to still side with them. Like... we are just expected to accept that doing the monstrous thing was a necessary evil, and even after the game points out how monstrous it was we are still expected to accept it. I half expect 90% of the "angry war loving quarians" angle suddenly dumped on you is a desperate attempt to make the asari not look so bad for exiling their species from the Citadel. "As you can see, we were incredibly wise and in the right to exile these assholes. Now excuse me, I need to get back to hiding our prothean super beacon while you fight the reapers until it is too late." After all, they could play up the "Past quarians were assholes because AI just wants to know if it has a soul, right guys?" angle just fine without requiring current Quarians to decide the best time to wage a war with a weaker AI race is... when the super evil mega AI race is waging war. A good chunk of the game is dedicated to Quarians suddenly becoming war mongering assholes that have to be saved from themselves. And then "Whoops well we ran out of Dev time can't blame us for just glossing over the fact Asari were hiding things the fate of the galaxy depend on from you onto the endgame gogogo..." Section Z fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 03:54
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"no one in our entire race has learned a single god damned lesson, and we are are dedicated to rushing headlong into extinction doing it again" was not something I expected to play out in 3. after both of the other 2 I expected some "the quarians have learned their lesson" bit but no. that does not happen til its forced at the last moment because dramatic tension or something dumb they were that stupid long before the last minute "the asari are hoarding loot" twist
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Sep 21, 2021 04:42
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RFC2324 posted:the quarians are extremely jarring to me, because they are kind of set up to be sympathetic, and clearly the author of that part was "we must be wary of letting our technology get out of our control", but are they revealed to be genocidal monsters who started the whole thing yet there is a strong vein of just expecting us to still side with them. Like... we are just expected to accept that doing the monstrous thing was a necessary evil, and even after the game points out how monstrous it was we are still expected to accept it. Same thing with Mages and Templars in Dragon Age: both sides must morally be equal so the choice to chose one is hard, but Bioware over-corrects when one side is initially presented as more sympathetic So you have Dragon Age 2 where all but like 2 Mages you meet are Blood Mages who turn abomination almost immediately, and here in Mass Effect 3 where Han'Gerrel will fire on that Geth Dreadnought with Tali on it, even though in the previous game he was best friends with Tali's father and thinks of her as a niece
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Sep 21, 2021 04:54
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Major Isoor posted:I guess it's kinda understandable though, when it looks like your entire species is about to go down the drain If Tali isn't alive when you side with the Geth in ME3, Aunty Ra'an shoots herself instead.
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Sep 21, 2021 06:52
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Strategic Tea posted:Can we at least agree that the Tempest is an extremely good boy? The Tempest is the H2 Hummer of spaceships. Big & useless. As others have mentioned and as visible in-game the layout & in-universe functionality is terrible. Basically it's just a VIP luxury yacht. By all means like it though, if that's your jam.
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Sep 21, 2021 08:39
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Oh dear me posted:If Tali isn't alive when you side with the Geth in ME3, Aunty Ra'an shoots herself instead. This happened to me. I lost Tali in the Suicide Mission and sided with the geth because the narrative has portrayed the quarians as the aggressors since ME1.
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Sep 21, 2021 08:50
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How do you lose anyone on the Suicide Mission? Saving everyone is child's play.
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Sep 21, 2021 09:48
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edogawa rando posted:How do you lose anyone on the Suicide Mission? Saving everyone is child's play. I've played the game several times, to try out the different classes, paragon vs renegade, romances etc, so naturally I've done a 'kill everyone and see what happens in ME3' option too. From this I learnt that Mordin, Tali, and Legion should be kept alive as a priority, Jack too if I can face her loyalty mission, but there is no need to do Jacob or Grunt's, and Thane and Garrus should definitely die in the suicide mission.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:05
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edogawa rando posted:How do you lose anyone on the Suicide Mission? Saving everyone is child's play. I didn't get her Loyalty because I didn't care or pay attention to the politics of it all. I was like "your dad is torturing geth, Imma tell everybody." I didn't realize this somehow empowered the pro-torture side and the person persecuting her was the good Admrial.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:10
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