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Baronash posted:This would be comical if it wasn't so sad how much money folks waste on these manipulative "vacations." Boy howdy are you telling me. I just finished a week at Disney World. Facing this thing head on was interesting, but ultimately I got to do pretty much everything I wanted to, though with help outside of the normal systems (Handicapped brother). However the parks did feel so much more packed than I remember even 3 years ago in our last family vacation there. And the numbers in this video seemed to line up with that. Want to hear a really weird story about Disney's "Black Market" park system? So my brother needs a wheelchair, club feet, otherwise fine, can kinda walk enough to transfer to the ride vehicles. Kinda the best case scenario for doing parks. Disney has always been an amazing place for accommodating handicapped people. They used to have a system where people who had a handicap (loosely verified,) could bring their parties to the exit of a ride and get on quicker, bypassing the line (for multiple reasons including potential stamina, stairs in the line path, narrow passages that wheelchairs couldn't get through). It was great for us as kids, but really it helped by little brother stick with us as we did things. That system is long gone. Why? "Rich" people were hiring handicapped people to escort them around the park so they could use the handicap pass to bypass rides. Apparently they were making a decent buck at it too, plus they had free tickets to disney parks (cause the people paying them would need to buy them a ticket). But it ballooned the system from an initially low number of people really needing it, to a situation where the "handicap pass" was starting to clog exists and rides all together. The killed that system (for more than that reason I'm sure) and have since replaced it with a fastpass like system called Disability Access Support (DAS) where the handicapped person goes up to the ride (or now uses the app) to request a return time and they just get a free fastpass ticket. Magic Hate Ball posted:It really is nuts how Disney vacation planning is its own industry. It's really insane. My gf is a "luxury travel specialist" (Travel Agent) and I see her plan these amazing trips for a week or more to actual locations with all inclusive resorts for half of what the disney trip cost my family. Sure there's no rides, but you're also not walking 10 miles a day trying to see everything and standing for 10+ hours a day in lines or just around because there are no where near enough seats. Crain fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 18:11
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Cars used to be incredibly disposable. The Citroën 2CV?
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Dec 16, 2021 18:52
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As a Florida resident, allow me to say "gently caress Disney World".
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Dec 16, 2021 18:59
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Crain posted:"Rich" people were hiring handicapped people to escort them around the park so they could use the handicap pass to bypass rides. Apparently they were making a decent buck at it too, plus they had free tickets to disney parks (cause the people paying them would need to buy them a ticket). But it ballooned the system from an initially low number of people really needing it, to a situation where the "handicap pass" was starting to clog exists and rides all together. This both sounds like a thing that probably happened at least once ever but also a thing that is the rumor that every handicap accommodation in the history of the world gets.
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Dec 16, 2021 19:04
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:This both sounds like a thing that probably happened at least once ever but also a thing that is the rumor that every handicap accommodation in the history of the world gets. Supposedly that was the official reason disney itself gave for ending it. But yeah.
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Dec 16, 2021 19:05
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The way I hear it with old cars is that they're a lot more durable but much less survivable for anyone inside from a crash. Again, survivor bias. Per Wikipedia (easiest cite to pull, I've seen others) cars in the '60s and '70s were expected to have a usable lifetime of 100,000 miles. Now they're expected to last 200,000.
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Dec 16, 2021 19:23
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, it's really unambiguous how much longer cars last now. While I fully agree that cars since the eighties definitely are better at staying on the road*, how much of this is the cars actually lasting longer, and how much of it is the reduced spending power of every proceeding generation? * All bets are off in a road salt state.
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Dec 16, 2021 22:49
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Mister Facetious posted:While I fully agree that cars since the eighties definitely are better at staying on the road*, how much of this is the cars actually lasting longer, and how much of it is the reduced spending power of every proceeding generation? From an automotive perspective it's absolutely the quality of the engines (and some other parts). Engines used to be freaking done at 100k. Loose tolerances, burning copious amounts of oil, etc. That rarely happens now if you bother to change the oil. Along with this is we're out of the malaise era where pollution control devices were so poorly engineered/made that they were an active hinderance and constantly broke. Also, other than a lot of CVT garbage, automatic transmissions have gotten a LOT more reliable. Yes, they're more complicated to work on. Yes there are a lot of questionable materials being used in places they shouldn't be. But on the whole the cheapest of new cars is not only more durable and reliable, but a hell of a lot safer.
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Dec 16, 2021 23:01
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lordofthefishes posted:The Citroën 2CV? The 1956 Citroen DS-19 had radials standard.
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Dec 16, 2021 23:28
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I had no idea Disney World was that miserable. Dealing with an overwrought, complex system with multiple tiers and multiple fees for everything sounds stressful and obnoxious to the point where I don't understand why I'd even go. I'm used to smaller amusement parks where you pay for the day and ride whatever you want. Sometimes the big rides might have somewhat of a queue but it doesn't take all day and doesn't involve a whole system.
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Dec 17, 2021 05:44
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Sounds like Disney have reinvented the E-ticket. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_ticket
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Dec 17, 2021 05:54
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Elukka posted:I had no idea Disney World was that miserable. Dealing with an overwrought, complex system with multiple tiers and multiple fees for everything sounds stressful and obnoxious to the point where I don't understand why I'd even go. It must be nice to be passionate enough about something that you'd wait four loving hours in line to do it for the 10 minutes or whatever a ride takes. Good for them.
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Dec 17, 2021 06:48
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VideoGameVet posted:The 1956 Citroen DS-19 had radials standard. Yeah..... lot of books on old cars around the house. Some say the 2CV was earliest. Lancia Aurelia supposedly had them standard as well. Was mostly just amused at 1970. My interest in old cars is the real tech nightmare here.
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Dec 17, 2021 07:30
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Devor posted:What is the wait time of an empty, unpopular ride? If it was going to have zero riders, and now has 500 riders with zero wait time, I have decreased average wait times. But the only extra rides that were created were on a ride that no one likes. The rides that “no one likes” were going empty because every minute you’re on them or walking to/from is a minute you’re not in line for one of the big rides. The FastPass virtual queue lets people enjoy the “so so” rides without giving up the opportunity to ride a bigger one.
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Dec 17, 2021 07:53
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The video remarks that the original FastPass was a system made by Operations, whereas FP+ and successors were essentially Marketing projects. The former was made to solve a problem. The latter were made to make money. I remember going to Disney when FP was still active and it was legit great. It helped I went during off-season but still.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:36
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I don’t think the contribution computer assisted design and simulation has made toward more reliable, more durable cars can't be understated edit: stupid phones Scratch Monkey fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 13:01
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lordofthefishes posted:Was mostly just amused at 1970. Fair enough. What I should have said, was "as standard in America".
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Dec 17, 2021 13:08
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Scratch Monkey posted:I don’t think the contribution computer assisted design and simulation has made toward more reliable, more durable cars can be understated Also manufacturing. Nobody's milling engine blocks by hand, assembling complex subassemblies by hand, etc. There is a lot CNC machining and robotic welding with tolerances and repeatability that is just mind blowing on even the most econo of econoboxes these days.
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Dec 17, 2021 14:54
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Being able to construct a complex machine consisting of so many moving and interlocking parts, to be fueled by widely available refined hydrocarbons, and have it operate at several thousand RPM, to perform its function for thousands and thousands of hours in varying temperature and humidity conditions, under widely varying load cycles, with just basic fluid changes and replacement of a small number of token wear parts, is an absolute marvel of engineering.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:03
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Elukka posted:I had no idea Disney World was that miserable. Dealing with an overwrought, complex system with multiple tiers and multiple fees for everything sounds stressful and obnoxious to the point where I don't understand why I'd even go. A few months ago I got sucked into one of those Youtube channels recommending what to do/not to do (I was drawn in by the foods) and detailing some of the extreme nickle and diming that has been going on there and getting worse. I came way from those videos feeling that WDW today would be a tolerable experience only if I lived nearby. Otherwise, it seemed like it would be an obscene expense on the order of at least $10k for our family of three to fly or drive there and pay for lodging, even off premises. I can drive 4-6 hours to "lesser" amusement parks, struggle to spend $1000 for a long weekend, and almost certainly have a more relaxing experience.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:05
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https://twitter.com/spencersoper/status/1471821133351579648
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Dec 17, 2021 15:58
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Cheesus posted:It was a big enough deal for my parents to bring us to Disney World a few times in the 80s. As a kid it was fun however even then I had this vague feeling of "Is this really worth it?" This, When I was a child I went a few times with family as part of a larger florida trip, like Disney was two days then we did other things for the rest of the week. Now if my family it would be THE trip, and it would happen once, not multiple times as kind of a summer add on.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:07
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Cheesus posted:I came way from those videos feeling that WDW today would be a tolerable experience only if I lived nearby. I can confirm that this not the case. It loving sucks. Some of the rides are quite fun but the problem your "fun to waiting" ratio is something like 1 to 50. Once you add up how many minutes you actually had "fun" and compare it to how long you've been there (or divide dollars spent by number of minutes on rides), it's horrible. It's usually hot. It's overpriced, the food is mostly terrible, the wait times are obscene, LOT of walking and, as someone who does not like crowds, I find it difficult to even just move around and I get tense. They also use a "watch" sort of thing that automatically bills your credit card, which is a decent idea in theory but was a real hassle when I lost mine in the "Small World" river (ALLL the way back to the park entrance). Also (by design) it has the effect of making you spend more money since it's so much easier, out of sight and also difficult to track how much you've spent. Thing I never understood is why they don't run the movies or some cartoons on TV screens, stick a character near queue or put up some original art or seomthing when you're waiting in line to quell the boredom; or even have a few smaller vendors sprinkled around here and there (in the lines). If you HAVE to go and want to spare yourself SOME hassle: pack as much water and snacks as you can. Another good trick if you drink is to fill up a Zephyr Hills water bottle with clear booze and reseal it. If you have a baby stroller, load that fucker up with any contraband because they don't search it as heavily. But seriously, don't go. You'll have more fun and a better bang for your buck at a county fair.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:40
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BiggerBoat posted:Thing I never understood is why they don't run the movies or some cartoons on TV screens, stick a character near queue or put up some original art or seomthing when you're waiting in line to quell the boredom; or even have a few smaller vendors sprinkled around here and there (in the lines). They don't want you to get any entertainment without either paying for it or waiting for it. And having vendors in the lines would probably mess them up even more. Theme parks in general lose a lot of their luster when you realise how they're trying to funnel you in certain directions all the time, and especially when they aren't necessarily good at it. Especially with Disney being incredibly weird about their Brands and the way they're presented and marketed. They want you to spend money and time in specific ways and at specific places, and to see things through a certain lens. (though am reminded that Rollercoaster Tycoon does encourage you to put costumed Entertainers and TV screens in long queues to prevent people getting angry)
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Dec 17, 2021 16:45
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Also: The shear amount of walking and standing you WILL do, and MUST do in order to see anything or do anything. The week we were there the average was 9-10 miles a day, over around 8-10 hours, with most of the time between walking being standing. Disney purposefully doesn't put enough seating in the parks because of many reasons, but mostly because if you're sitting, you're not spending. Your feet will hurt even if you're in decent shape and have good shoes on.
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Dec 17, 2021 17:21
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Crain posted:Also: The shear amount of walking and standing you WILL do, and MUST do in order to see anything or do anything. I feel like if you are in decent shape you should be able to walk 10 miles in 10 hours.
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Dec 17, 2021 17:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel like if you are in decent shape you should be able to walk 10 miles in 10 hours. See, right there we got a problem. I have arthritis in my lower back/hip. And sure, you CAN do it, but it IS a workout during what is branded as a vacation and presumably relaxing. You're also carrying around all the poo poo you brought in and also the junk you bought. If you have young kids, it's even worse with the stroller, the diaper bags, etc. etc. And have you ever seen an average Disney goer? They look like the motherfuckers from Wall-E. Ghost Leviathan posted:And having vendors in the lines would probably mess them up even more. I guess but a small kiosk that sells sodas, water and maybe french fries or light snacks might ease the mood and discomfort a little. Also, easy way to make money since when you're in line waiting you're not spending. "Hey, line standers, how about 11 bucks for a bag of popcorn and a van of Sprite?" Put some waste bins here and there. There must be a reason Disney doesn't do it since it seems like easy money and maybe the mess is part of that. More likely is they've done studies that show after you wait in line for 3 hours, you're thirsty, tired and hungry and they make more profit funneling people off the rides and directly into strategically placed gift shops and restaurants.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:10
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel like if you are in decent shape you should be able to walk 10 miles in 10 hours. 10mi in 10hr is, yea, more than doable for anyone in remotely decent shape. but have you been in that humidity? it would, by no means, be a pleasant 10hr for anyone of any shape. not to mention anyone of any shape could suffer lightheadness or heat stroke or dehydration or whatever else from that july heat + humidity combination only after a few hours.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel like if you are in decent shape you should be able to walk 10 miles in 10 hours. It's the standing that got me. I tracked it loosely one day we were there at Epcot: Out of the roughly 10 hours we were there I managed to sit in an actual chair or bench for around 1 total hour, and usually our breaks were around 10 minutes. If I had to walk 10 miles in 10 hours but could really sit and rest between those miles? No problem. Do ten miles, a few steps at a time, for 10 hours and you're hating life.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:26
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It's honestly kind of fascinating how they micromanage all of this stuff right down to the minutae in order to extract as much money as possible, and the fact that it goes hand-in-hand with a whole industry of Disney obsessives and vloggers (oh my god the vloggers) is just wild to me. Real ouroboros vibes. Also, I can confirm that ten hours on your feet in humid weather sucks rear end no matter who you are.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:27
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In Florida the summer heat nearly kills me just going out to the mailbox. If you MUST participate in that capitalist hellscape, for the love of god dont go in July
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Dec 17, 2021 18:34
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BRB, watching 8hrs of vlogs so I can minmax my vacation.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:40
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Dubar posted:In Florida the summer heat nearly kills me just going out to the mailbox. If you MUST participate in that capitalist hellscape, for the love of god dont go in July December was better, but only once the sun went down. Though most days it wasn't that humid.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:46
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The Indiana Jones ride at Disneyland has an an elaborate ancient temple setup for its queue, and even includes some minor interactive elements. It really sets the mood, and should be the model for other rides.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:51
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"I can hear the hurricane sirens, can I come inside?" "Mickey Mouse says to shelter in place. If you take your costume head off, you won't have a job tomorrow."
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Dec 17, 2021 18:52
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story time: back when Walt was alive, he did an experiment, hiring dozens of undercover PIs to come to WDL and removing all the trash cans. He had them count how many steps people took before throwing trash on the ground the n brought back trash cans at exactly 1 less step away. Man being a visionary with unlimited money let's you do cool stuff sometimes. meanwhile our current crop of idiots just want to set the Amazon on fire to get a procgen MOnkey jaypeg
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Dec 17, 2021 19:00
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Crain posted:Also: The shear amount of walking and standing you WILL do, and MUST do in order to see anything or do anything. Why does anyone go to this? It sounds worse than going to work. e: Don't get me wrong it's not the walking I am objecting to, but the whole going from A to B to C ordeal while Disney is trying to make you spend. Reminds me a little of Temple Grandin and how she designed slaughter houses so cows would wakl in certain paths to make the calmer before the slaughter. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 19:07
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Much like a slaughterhouse, I imagine most people won't realize how much it sucks until they actually get there.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:16
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ponzicar posted:The Indiana Jones ride at Disneyland has an an elaborate ancient temple setup for its queue, and even includes some minor interactive elements. It really sets the mood, and should be the model for other rides. The newer rides all have really fun queues. Even the older rides have had retrofitted interactive and immersive queues leading up to the main attraction. The two newest rides, Rise of the Resistance and Ratatouille, have amazing queues: ROTR: The "line" ends up being part of the show. Being in a fully formed from the ground up new "land" in the park allows it to really feel super immersed. The line does have screens showing the "events" of the ride, snippets of information, tons to look at and watch for and play with. And that's the "100%" line portion. About halfway through your wait you enter the "interactive line" where you're no longer just stepping forward bit by bit. Instead it goes like this: 1) Enter a holding room, get a debrief from BB-8 and Rey (in movie quality hologram form) 2) You move through a hanger towards a "transport" vessel, cast members are "hurrying" you along because you're under attack. 3) You enter the "transport" is shakes and moves through a scene, but is just moving you to the next area 4) You enter into the prison vessel and now the imperial guards are moving you to prison cells. they break you into smaller groups and interact with you a lot. Kinda like drill instructors sassing guests. It's fun. (My gf called one a "space nazi" accidentally and the dude did NOT know how to respond). 5) You're in a prison cell and there's an interrogation via animatronics and LED screen movies. 6) You're broken out of the cell and finally loaded into the ride vehicles themselves to start the actual "ride" portion. The ride itself can be measured to be almost 20-25 minutes long once you enter the "interactive" portion. Once you hit that first holding room you're always being engaged. It's like a stage show. Watch this video to get a better feel for how they funnel you from place to place and make it seem fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbWghpV0Q8 But it can take about 2 hours some days to get to that point in the line. And the line got so long they were moving people through the back area of the Muppets section next door to it. Ratatouille: There is no standby line at all, there is no "fastpass", at 7am you can log into the app to try and snag a ticket for your group. If you fail you can try again at 1pm if you are inside the park. The line itself is nestled inside of a new, explicitly "retromodern" Paris section of the France pavillion, great setting, great immersion. The line itself wanders you through Parisian apartment hallways, across the rooftops of Paris, where a transparent LED panel of the Gusto character on the sign interacts with the world around the sign and does things, plus some other stuff happening in the windows. Then you go through another apartment and then onto the ride. Generally a 30 minute wait, but if you miss those openings, you don't get to even try to wait to get in. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but it does let them keep the ride of "optimum" through put. It's not as involved as ROTR, but it's still fun. Making the line part of the ride is probably the best bet that Disney has to deal with how bad the lines are, beyond deciding to just make less money by reducing park capacity. Which they'll never do. Are these developments fun? Yes. Is it worth the money and time and wait? Probably not if I'm honest.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:48
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Also, I can confirm that ten hours on your feet in humid weather sucks rear end no matter who you are. All of my family trips to FL were during New England spring break, so between February and March. I don't recall it seeming that bad. In the late 90s, however, my employer had a booth at a trade show in Tampa in August. Every morning I was amazed at how quickly I was drenched in sweat walking barely half a block from the hotel.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:57
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