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still my biggest gripes that Doctor Octopus didn't get a Leader designation for Spider-Foes (Sinister Six boss for ages) and The Hood not getting a crime syndicate leadership when he's pretty much the godfather of a huge operation
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Jun 17, 2022 15:09
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Leadership abilities seems to be a bit of a weak spot. A dud leadership skill is a huge hinderance on a faction. And it seems like because they put it on the character card, they expect the leader to pay for the cost of the leadership skill, which makes it undesirable to take them without them being the leader. Which is to say, in 2.0 I hope they take those off the card and put them on the affiliation itself, albeit still tied to a character.
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Jun 17, 2022 15:46
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They tried that already, right? That's what The Bar With No Doors is. I could see that working in several of the other factions. A Heart Shaped Herb card that can be used by X Wakandan characters to take leadership, or The Odinforce for good Asgard and the Casket of Ancient Winters for bad. Honestly that'd be a neat design space anyway, allowing for weird new faction creation off of faction-agnostic leadership cards. All leading a faction as Zemo because he got his hands on the Tactigon, or as Bob, Agent of Hydra armed incongruously with The Ultimate Nullifier.
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Jun 17, 2022 16:53
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Plenty of leaders are perfectly viable outside of their affiliation, and there doesn't seem to be much of a "leader tax" in practice. Sam Wilson is an amazing support piece in a lot of affiliations, Cyclops is a solid 4 threat character even if you ignore his leadership (and you should, it sucks). Cable sees plenty of play outside X-Force and likewise Doctor Strange outside Defenders, and Black Panther is in all sorts of lists. Magneto and She-Hulk less so, because Hulk is generally more splashable at the 6 threat level, but they're perfectly fine 6 threat characters in-affiliation. There are of course some duds, such as the entirety of Black Bolt, or Storm's non-leadership traits, but that pretty comfortably falls within normal design variance of some characters being better than others. And of course, Thanos is a great addition to any tall attrition team, not just Black Order. Quick rundown of the leaders in the game Amazing Spider-Man: Overshadowed by miles in-affiliation, but a very strong 5 threat anyway Black Bolt: Garbage Black Panther: Strong 4 threat that is widely splashed Blade: Really decent, but I haven't seen him much Cable: Strong, possibly even better in Avengers than X-Force Steve Rogers: Strong 4 threat, but people prefer to splash Sam Sam Wilson: Used anywhere heavy-hitting slow movers find their home Cyclops: Garbage leadership, but a very unique and useful 4 threat body Doctor Strange: Not as common as the Sorcerer Supreme variant, but still used outside Defenders (not that anyone uses Defenders) Dormammu: Literally can't be splashed Green Goblin: Pretty middling, haven't ever seen him outside Spider-Foes Hulkbuster: Rarely used for his leadership, strong 6 threat character Kingpin: I've never seen him splashed Magneto: Very strong attrition character, but most people splashing a 6 threat go for Hulk or Hulkbuster Mystique: Unique and useful 3 threat. Not very common outside Brotherhood, but she really should be Nick Fury: Great character with Grunts, not uncommon to see splashed Red Skull: Basically only used for Cabal Leadership Shadowland Daredevil: Splashed slightly less often than Fury, but still a great 4 threat character with grunts so definitely sees splash play She-Hulk: Overshadowed by Hulk in-slot, but not bad Sin: Generally not very good, even in-affiliation Miles: Fantastic character, great leadership, and is splashed anywhere that needs cheap displacement at range Star-Lord: Not splashed, but good in-affiliation Storm: Not splashed, has a weak body Thanos: Splashed to hell and back, one of the best models in the game even outside Black Order Thor: Haven't seen him outside Asgard Of the 25 leaders, at least 10 are excellent off-affiliation picks, and most of the rest are perfectly viable without their leadership
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Jun 17, 2022 16:58
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Glad to be wrong.
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Jun 17, 2022 18:45
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Sorry what does splash mean again?
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Jun 21, 2022 15:54
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Splash means to include something outside of your affiliation. For example, if you are running an xmen list but include Thanos in your roster. You can also have splash affiliations, where you bring enough models in your roster to run an affiliation, but usually play some other affiliation. For example, if a roster was 7 xmen plus thanos, corvus, and proxima. The idea behind splashes is to cover some weakness in your "makn" group
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Jun 21, 2022 16:12
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it's also a headfake to your opponent, since your 10 are known but not the squad you're fielding. If you have 2 leaders in your 10 and could conceivably field either with a legal squad they can't quite know what they're up against. this is why Dormammu is always my 10th figure.
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Jun 21, 2022 16:51
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Thanks much!
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Jun 21, 2022 16:56
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You might also see people refer to that style of list as "dual affiliation", it's fairly common to see.
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Jun 21, 2022 16:56
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Nearly all lists will splash a few out-of-affiliation characters, as most don't even have 10 and even the ones that do can usually benefit from a few imports. Fully dual-affiliation lists are quite a bit less common.
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Jun 21, 2022 18:10
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Hey my Midnight Sons and Convocation list is apparently also a Defenders list. Good times.
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Jun 21, 2022 19:23
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I have been thinking of trying to build a convocation/sons dual list but I'm finding tactics cards really hard. You also end up quite pinched for slots too. Convocation is greedy. On the other hand my friend has been experimenting with spiderfoes/syndicate dual affiliation and I'm really liking what I'm seeing. "New" Goblin looks really fun. I just wish Doc Oc was a touch better. I probably shouldn't compare every 3 threat to Zemo and Taskmaster, love those two.
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Jun 21, 2022 22:18
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Yeah they both really want cards. I had to make some tough calls to get basics in there but still have like Deal with the Devil and Siege of Darkness.
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Jun 21, 2022 22:31
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Hoboskins posted:I have been thinking of trying to build a convocation/sons dual list but I'm finding tactics cards really hard. You also end up quite pinched for slots too. Convocation is greedy. Doc Ock is a tank, wants to grab an objective and sit on a point and durdle around. there aren't a ton of 3 threat characters that have a character throw Zemo on the other hand is an offensive piece with charge and rerolls. with a long move they fill different niches but Zemo is generically more useful
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Jun 21, 2022 23:07
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:Doc Ock is a tank, wants to grab an objective and sit on a point and durdle around. there aren't a ton of 3 threat characters that have a character throw I would compare Ock more directly to Lizard and I think he loses out there, but not by a ton and being a medium-base medium-move is inherently strong. He's not the worst 3 you take just because they're in-affiliation, but it does sting a bit in an affiliation as small as Foes.
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Jun 21, 2022 23:26
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admanb posted:I would compare Ock more directly to Lizard and I think he loses out there, but not by a ton and being a medium-base medium-move is inherently strong. He's not the worst 3 you take just because they're in-affiliation, but it does sting a bit in an affiliation as small as Foes. Who is? Moon Knight? Bullseye?
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Jun 22, 2022 00:24
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admanb posted:I would compare Ock more directly to Lizard and I think he loses out there, but not by a ton and being a medium-base medium-move is inherently strong. He's not the worst 3 you take just because they're in-affiliation, but it does sting a bit in an affiliation as small as Foes. he does get a tactics card that is p-good with goblin so there's that at least also I never realized you're a goon. I've seen you on the tts discord
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Jun 22, 2022 00:43
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theironjef posted:Who is? Moon Knight? Bullseye? Moon Knight's great! And Bullseye is a 2 now. Good question, though. Maybe he is the worst. Well-Laid Plans definitely helps.
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Jun 22, 2022 00:45
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I dunno Viper is pretty down there. mostly pushed out by the other L movers in affiliation
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Jun 22, 2022 00:47
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theironjef posted:Who is? Moon Knight? Bullseye? Viper is widely considered the worst 3 threat. Bullseye was, but he got bumped down to 2 threat. Sin is also considered pretty bad
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Jun 22, 2022 00:54
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:he does get a tactics card that is p-good with goblin so there's that at least haha yeah when I'm fixated on a game I love talking about it so I'm everywhere.
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Jun 22, 2022 00:55
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3 threats in general are in a good spot. Even the worst 3 threats aren't terrible. Theres no 3 threat as bad for its threat as original daredevil is for 4, or black bolt for 5 threat
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Jun 22, 2022 01:03
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I think 4s have the largest quantity of "not quite there" models, but 5s have some absolute trash. In general I think 4s are the hardest to balance because they're not cheap enough that you're gonna run more than 1 or 2 but they're not expensive enough to be the boomstick of your list. Also, you can very often get 5 die attacks out of 3s and you don't usually get 6 dice until 5s, so 4s have to do something special to have the right offensive output for their value.
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Jun 22, 2022 01:15
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admanb posted:I think 4s have the largest quantity of "not quite there" models, but 5s have some absolute trash. Which 5s would you say are trash? Other than black bolt, they're mostly fine. Jean underperforms a bit but isnt terrible
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Jun 22, 2022 02:09
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Kaza42 posted:Which 5s would you say are trash? Other than black bolt, they're mostly fine. Jean underperforms a bit but isnt terrible Jean is one for me. Her damage output doesn't match up to most 5s with a 5-die builder and only a M range throw. She has no mobility or defensive tech to speak of and will explode if a physical attacker looks at her. Shield Mind is solid but it's not powerful enough to make up for the rest. And Nova's the other one -- similar issue with 5-die builder, no extra offense, no defensive tech besides stealth, and no mobility.
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Jun 22, 2022 02:38
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admanb posted:Jean is one for me. Her damage output doesn't match up to most 5s with a 5-die builder and only a M range throw. She has no mobility or defensive tech to speak of and will explode if a physical attacker looks at her. Shield Mind is solid but it's not powerful enough to make up for the rest. And Nova's the other one -- similar issue with 5-die builder, no extra offense, no defensive tech besides stealth, and no mobility. Counterpoint, Jean can move activated models. That plus shield mind makes her great at stand on secures. She's not top tier, but definitely has a role. Nova is a bit rough, but her mind possession attack combos extremely well with her trap power, and she can hand out punishing root conditions like candy. Not great, but not garbage
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Jun 22, 2022 04:07
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Kaza42 posted:Counterpoint, Jean can move activated models. That plus shield mind makes her great at stand on secures. She's not top tier, but definitely has a role. Yeah I don't think we're that far off, I think I just have a larger bucket for "garbage." My issue with Jean's move is that it's just a more limited and more expensive Bow to the Will of MODOK that could be used multiple times, but on a character that doesn't generate that much power.
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Jun 22, 2022 04:51
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The german store leak was real: https://twitter.com/atomicmassgames/status/1540028172745441281
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Jun 23, 2022 18:58
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Those models are cool but I truly do not understand who this is for. I'm not saying everything they release should be MCU-popular, but this seems like layers of niche deep.
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Jun 23, 2022 19:34
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They're for all of us, comrade E: in all seriousness, this will be the first affiliation I go all in on smug jeebus fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jun 23, 2022 |
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Jun 23, 2022 19:37
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That won't be hard since given their announcement/release schedule those will probably be the only four models they get for at least a full year.
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Jun 23, 2022 19:44
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the affiliation also includes omega red and Widow, presumablyadmanb posted:Those models are cool but I truly do not understand who this is for. I'm not saying everything they release should be MCU-popular, but this seems like layers of niche deep. also still waiting on my Gerber pack Man-Thing // Howard the Duck and my Chromium-age nonsense Sleepwalker // Darkhawk
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Jun 23, 2022 19:46
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admanb posted:Those models are cool but I truly do not understand who this is for. I'm not saying everything they release should be MCU-popular, but this seems like layers of niche deep. I think they may approach it from a different design philosophy. think of a play style then find a group that fits it plus I personally love deep cuts. Malekith isn't exactly super popular either but here we are
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Jun 23, 2022 19:55
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I'm down for deep cuts but Malekith is at least an expansion of a faction that hasn't seen a lot of direct love in a while. In a game that's already chock-full of underperforming factions creating another tiny one seems like a recipe for alienating players. but I'm not really upset about it, just kinda "huh?" It is also a fact that tabletop games are a lot more likely to be broken by over-emphasis on depth (lots of new releases for a small # of factions) than breadth, so from that perspective this is both a safe and player-friendly choice.
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Jun 23, 2022 20:07
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I'm going to buy the communists. I don't know anything about them and it doesn't matter
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Jun 23, 2022 20:37
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We're getting a loving WEREBEAR, this is for anyone who knows putting together a team of Spider-Man, Daredevil, Cyclops, and A BEAR is the coolest poo poo imaginable. Realistically the well of "well known" Marvel characters can, and will, begin to run dry so "deep cuts" are going to be more commonplace. I appreciate that AMG stays closer to the comics with picks like this, Cassandra Nova, classic X-men and Spiderman characters, etc etc. I'm sure there are sculptors on their team who are getting to live out their Warhammer fantasies with stuff like Malekith, Heimdall, and a big grizzly bear. I've been looking forward to Crimson Dynamo for a long, long time; he used to be hot poo poo as an Iron Man nemesis ages ago. They did so goddamn good on that sculpt; I have a feeling even non-players of MCP might pick up Dynamo and Ursa Major just because they are so clean.
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Jun 23, 2022 23:53
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I've got a draft going here where the rule is "What will come out before the Fantastic Four?" It requires some agreement to work, but the basic concept is everyone gets five characters worth between 1 and 3 points based on how unlikely everyone agrees they would be, then when the FF is finally announced we tally up between 0 and 15 points. Someone like Nightcrawler is a 1, The Warriors Three on a single base a 2, and Dracula or the Squadron Supreme a 3.
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Jun 24, 2022 00:05
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Squadron Supreme would be a deep cut. there's always the Great Lakes Avengers
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Jun 24, 2022 00:11
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GLA has the problem that the only person in them that matters really is Doreen, who's popular and gameable enough that by herself she's a 1. So you end up with a 1 for SG, but Mister Immortal, Flatman, etc. are definitely all threes.
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Jun 24, 2022 00:13
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