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I think part of GRRM probably thinks that if he dies with the series still unfinished it’ll be mourned over in posterity as a tragic “oh what masterpiece it may have been if he had only been given more time to conclude it drat you uncaring universe” which would retroactively redeem it a bit. Problem is that for the most part (not always but most) that really only applies to artists who die tragically young and not of Old As Hell. To make another comparison to Tolkien I definitely feel it’s disappointing that he was himself never able to reach a point in his writings of what would later become The Silmarillion where he felt satisfied enough to publish a complete and definitive work in his own lifetime. But it’s hardly tragic considering he was in his 80s and how much more time was he gonna need at that point? But the difference is that no one except Tolkien and his family even knew these writings existed and so no one was eagerly awaiting them before he died.
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Aug 7, 2022 17:42
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I genuinely believe George thinks he's going to be still writing at the age of 100 with all of his faculties in check. For how obsessed he is with mortality, I know way too many Boomers who think they're going to live forever. As for Winds, I saw an interview with the American History X director the other day, and he is apparently still incensed that the studio didn't let him completely reshoot the movie after he finished. Apparently, he'd experienced enlightenment and wrote a better script after the original movie had been cut, and he wanted the funding to shoot the movie again. This happens all of the time, especially with musicians who delay their albums for years, rewriting the same songs over and over as sensibilities change from year to year. George outright admits that the blurry trajectory of his story changes with the tides. This happens with so many super secret magnum opus projects. I talked about how I believe art is inherently social and that if we don't share or discuss our creations, then they only exist in our heads, and since I have to believe that George was or is not sharing drafts or discussing his books with anyone, then it's all just some half formed lemon cake in his head that he just mashes up and remolds every time an errant thought about new directions makes him feel tingly.
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Aug 7, 2022 18:04
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At this point Gurm would need the same thing that every writer/musician/artist/whatever who's working on their greatest masterpiece ever, it's gonna be so great, I just need more time, oh how much? well I don't know but I swear it's coming along great needs and that's an editor/manager/spouse/whatever who straight up tells them that if they keep on gardening they're never ever going to be happy with their work, let alone finish it and sets them a loving deadline
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Aug 7, 2022 18:52
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There was a brief opinion piece I read on Forbes today that pretty much sums up how I feel about the situation - it just makes me sincerely and truly sad to see something I really did love, and which was admittedly really great during its time (the first three books) grow stale and become essentially abandoned over the span of two decades. I mean, when I first discovered this series i was approximately the same age that Robb Stark is in the novels - now I’m 37, a year older than Eddard Stark is in the first novel! I mean  The relative age thing was something from the opinion piece above, and it’s a pretty sobering reminder of just what an extreme amount of time really has elapsed.
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Aug 8, 2022 04:23
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I had this lingering thought every time Valve would join in on the "lol Valve can't count to 3" memes or would post cryptic news about HL3, and that thought was "Man, a lot of Half Life fans have died while they dicked around." That feeling is amplified when I think of ASOIAF fans who died. Like, imagine someone's last piece of news from GRRM about Ice and Fire being that lovely loving "I feel sorry for you" post from a few months back. When people say "George doesn't owe you anything" I kind of can't argue. And then I remember the fact that this series could have died with the first book in the '90s. But people bought those books as they came out and spread the word enough that GRRM was brought out of obscurity during the last few decades of his life to being the most well-known author of his kind since Stephen King. I think he genuinely owes something to the readers who uplifted him and I mean that with 100% sincerity.
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Aug 8, 2022 05:06
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Pennsylvanian posted:I genuinely believe George thinks he's going to be still writing at the age of 100 with all of his faculties in check. For how obsessed he is with mortality, I know way too many Boomers who think they're going to live forever. If he hadn’t taken so long to write, it wouldn’t have given people the time to discuss and publicize the flaws in his writing. He’s probably read about the flaws, realized there were better ways that would solve them, and is now caught in the rut of having to write with those flaws as cannon. He can’t go back and fix his mistakes. Really, he needed to make an outline from the start, but he’s made it clear that isn’t how an “artist” like him operates.
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Aug 8, 2022 14:08
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I don’t want him to finish the books. It’s way more entertaining watching him flail around with excuses than whatever boring dreck he’ll write. We already know what his general plans were from the show even if he ends up rewriting it all, he’ll never recapture the magic from the first books.
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Aug 8, 2022 14:31
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The only real mystery from the books I'm curious what he was planning/where he was going with was whatever Bloodraven's actual motivation loving was. And given that the Dunk and Egg books were something he still seemed interesting in writing, I might have gotten an answer someday if he hadn't gotten distracted by this terrible new show lol.
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Aug 8, 2022 14:39
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Pennsylvanian posted:When people say "George doesn't owe you anything" I kind of can't argue. Sure you can. Someone repeatedly lying and saying they're working on X and going to give you X can and should be held to that. If they aren't ever going to work on X or finish it they need to admit it or deal with people calling them out repeatedly.
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Aug 8, 2022 14:40
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:The only real mystery from the books I'm curious what he was planning/where he was going with was whatever Bloodraven's actual motivation loving was. And given that the Dunk and Egg books were something he still seemed interesting in writing, I might have gotten an answer someday if he hadn't gotten distracted by this terrible new show lol. I assume since they change it from hereditary to an elector count kind of system that he’s just find warts and uplift them so he could jump into them and keep power forever or something hosed up like that. Subverting the democracy is better idea. But we’ll never know so lmao it was so he could jerk off again
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Aug 8, 2022 14:47
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If an idea never leaves an artist’s head it is for all intents and purposes immaterial and subject to change whenever the artist’s whims shift which with GRRM has quite obviously happened an incalculable number of times. So it’s quite likely that the ideas he had in his head regarding the longer term plot back when he was writing Storm of Swords are completely alien to what he imagines now.
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Aug 8, 2022 16:21
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I just realized that the show isn't going to be a one off miniseries and instead they're going to drag this poo poo out for years and years because things are never allowed to end. We didn't hire Paddy Considine just to kill him off in three episodes when we can do a flashback motif all across the show's runtime.
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Aug 8, 2022 17:01
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Gotta be popular first. We’ll see if the GoT stink has worn off enough for people to tune in.
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Aug 8, 2022 17:05
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Arc Hammer posted:I just realized that the show isn't going to be a one off miniseries and instead they're going to drag this poo poo out for years and years because things are never allowed to end. We didn't hire Paddy Considine just to kill him off in three episodes when we can do a flashback motif all across the show's runtime. I believe I read they chose the “House of the Dragon” branding to allow the show the anthologies multiple different stories throughout the history of the Targaryen dynasty. So this particular story could be two seasons or something, then House of the Dragon continues on with The Fall of Valyria or whatever.
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Aug 8, 2022 17:08
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Klungar posted:I believe I read they chose the “House of the Dragon” branding to allow the show the anthologies multiple different stories throughout the history of the Targaryen dynasty. So this particular story could be two seasons or something, then House of the Dragon continues on with The Fall of Valyria or whatever. I doubt they'll do it because that might actually be interesting but it would require them to cast a lot more people.
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Aug 8, 2022 17:12
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It'd be pretty funny if the show does so badly they have to can it before actually getting to the end. But I dunno, hard to imagine more than two seasons (one for the pre-war, one for the war itself). Unless they think people are going to be really interested in a full third season of Aegon III moping around.
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Aug 8, 2022 17:36
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GRRM himself has no goddamn idea what happened to Valryia and sure as hell isn’t gonna work with HBO to write it for him. Also that would be going back even further in time.
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Aug 8, 2022 19:20
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Arc Hammer posted:I just realized that the show isn't going to be a one off miniseries and instead they're going to drag this poo poo out for years and years because things are never allowed to end. We didn't hire Paddy Considine just to kill him off in three episodes when we can do a flashback motif all across the show's runtime. Yeah they're going to milk it for everything it's worth, trying to build their mega franchise money printing machine or whatever. Which is a shame because some of the limited run's HBO has produced have been amazing, thinking here of Chernobyl and Watchmen in particular. Also: Invalid Validation posted:I don’t want him to finish the books. It’s way more entertaining watching him flail around with excuses than whatever boring dreck he’ll write.
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Aug 8, 2022 20:02
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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drat I didnt even realize that was Paddy Considine, I love him. that's awesome, way more excited to see him than Matt Smith, prolly the best actor they got on the show
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Aug 8, 2022 20:33
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I would be hella surprised if this show is actually popular and successful thread, I wanna say it won't get renewed for season 2 but it given that Westworld has been going on for 4 seasons and the last time that show was good was in its first season so you can't know with this weird network, they probably invested a lot of money into the sets and costumes for this show so even if nobody cares about it there's a good chance they'll roll a second season but really, can't see this show being a thing people care about, it's got nothing going for it, I've seen zero organic hype about this show in any of my social networks or irl and these are people who were totally onboard the GoT train when it happened, it's really like HBO underestimate what a poor impression that last season left on people and how it retroactively changed their entire perception of the show and the franchise, whenever GoT is still mentioned in popular media it's usually as a joke about hte terrible last season, we had 7 years of the show having such unparalleled pop culture significance and now it's a really just a joke about bad endings, no way a show about fake dragon politics that has inherently lower plot stakes is going to salvage that garbage fire. That's my opinion thread.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:00
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Westworld finally got great again this season, but doesn't have HotD's budget.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:GRRM himself has no goddamn idea what happened to Valryia and sure as hell isn’t gonna work with HBO to write it for him. Also that would be going back even further in time. It's stated very plainly that Doom happened to it 
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Aug 8, 2022 22:10
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Pennsylvanian posted:Westworld finally got great again this season, but doesn't have HotD's budget. As someone who gave up the second to last episode of season 2 because it was objectively nonsensical what’s been happening?
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Aug 8, 2022 23:06
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TK-42-1 posted:I assume since they change it from hereditary to an elector count kind of system that he’s just find warts and uplift them so he could jump into them and keep power forever or something hosed up like that. Subverting the democracy is better idea. But we’ll never know so lmao it was so he could jerk off again I meant more in the first place. Like his stuff with the Others and poo poo seem to imply a 'for Humanity' POV but his hateboner for the Blackfyres seems to suggest more 'for the King.' Like is he playing the Song of Ice and Fire, or is he playing the Game of Thrones? Because everything in ASoIaF suggests the former, but everything in Dunk and Egg suggests the latter. Like if all he wanted to do was be king, then there's definitely easier ways he could have done it, especially considering he was already Shadow King at times and also that it would have probably been trivial at the Redgrass Field for him to have made a move. If all he wanted to do was protect mankind from the Others, then why the gently caress did he waste most of his mortal life dicking around in the Targaryen family drama? If all he wanted to do was protect the rightful Targaryen kings, then why did he use his tree powers to hang out with a Stark instead of doing something about Bobby B?
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Aug 9, 2022 02:26
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maybe he just wants a sweet dragon to warg into and he set everything up so that daenerys would bring him one
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Aug 9, 2022 05:16
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Can’t wait for some Easter egg they throw into the show like Sean Bean or some poo poo. They can wink and smug to the camera while nobody gives a rats rear end about it.
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Aug 9, 2022 05:23
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https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vv93/george-rr-martin-may-never-finish-the-winds-of-winter-but-this-youtuber-might You know, when I first heard some guy was arguing that Dario was Euron this is exactly where I thought it would go. Now for him to begin procrastinating and get crushed under the expectations.
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Aug 9, 2022 07:23
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Edit: never mind.
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Aug 9, 2022 07:35
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Probably the best possible outcome for that Preston Jacobs venture (aside from whatever qualitative value it might have on its own) is that it actually shames and infuriates GRRM into actually doing some work on the loving thing. Maybe it’s got something to do with why he’s resorted to bragging about having written X amount of the book on his blog again? I mean, it has to feel at least a little bit humiliating and embarrassing when a contingent of your most vocal and devoted fans have given up on you to the extent that they’re just saying “gently caress it” and going all-in on writing their own version? There is an implicit subtext to that decision, that subtext being: “This rear end in a top hat obviously feels no creative accountability whatsoever towards his fans, so gently caress him”. If I were GRRM, that would honestly make me feel about 2 inches tall.
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Aug 9, 2022 07:44
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Is george being tongue in cheek when he says there'll be a debate about which ending is better or is he just speaking with the foreknowledge that when it comes to comparing a speculative ending that will never exist and one that exists and is objectively terrible people might debate which alternative is preferable?
emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Aug 9, 2022 |
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Aug 9, 2022 08:04
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the only thing in grrms cheeks is food
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Aug 9, 2022 09:13
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jsoh posted:the only thing in grrms cheeks is food  It is known.
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Aug 9, 2022 13:25
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latinotwink1997 posted:If he hadn’t taken so long to write, it wouldn’t have given people the time to discuss and publicize the flaws in his writing. He’s probably read about the flaws, realized there were better ways that would solve them, and is now caught in the rut of having to write with those flaws as cannon. He can’t go back and fix his mistakes. This is one of the things Terry Pratchett was very smart about. You can't make a big, sweeping epic unless you know where it's going from the start. If you want to write by the seat of your pants, make your books self-contained despite being in the same world and roughly sequential, and you can fix things when they don't work the way you like without anyone really noticing. Pratchett being Pratchett, he then proceeded to call out his changes in-world as a bit of clever callback to the timeline of the world having been broken and put back together on a 'close enough' basis several times.
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Aug 10, 2022 05:29
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I think you can write a big, sweeping epic across an extremely long period of time with excellent world-building an a coherent, overarching mythology. Ursula K Le Guin wrote the Earthsea series (which spanned 5 novels a collection of stories) across a span of 33 years, with the first book being released in 1968 and the last coming in 2001, with a gap of nearly two decades between the third and fourth novels, I don’t think she ever planned on continuing the series beyond a trilogy, and I don’t know how “planned” the initial trilogy was, aside from the first three novels being written rapidly in succession which isn’t really uncommon for a series like that. Anyway, just saying. Just because GRRM is a relatively crappy writer who overestimates his abilities and ideas doesn’t mean other authors with a better understanding of their own organic and intuitive creative process were unable to succeed in the manner that he pretends to use.
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Aug 10, 2022 06:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Lmfao if this true. According to leaks from the HoTD premier they lay out that the reason why the Targaryen’s conquered Westeros was that they knew about the White Walkers and needed to make sure there was a strong united kingdom to fight them. Which is f true is one of the most overplayed tropes in all of fantasy/sci-if and only makes the ending of GoT dumber. I read the ASOIAF pseudo history books (World of ice and fire) and this was never mentioned so it's prob something the showrunners made up hopefully Kylaer posted:And here I, who hasn't read the GRRM Extended Universe nonsense, figured that the Targaryens conquered Westeros because, well, they had dragons and Westeros didn't. Which works so much better than it being a secret generations-long undercover plot. The extended universe basically says exactly that the Targaryens conquered Westeros because they could Bloodraven was one of the worst things grrm introduced because the series was at its best when it was about "what if actual historical medieval European nobles was living in a low-fantasy universe". And it was fun watching fantasy-Edward IV or fantasy-Margaret of Anjou bumbling and suffer realistic consequences. OTOH "This one magic creature who prophesized all of this 1000 years ago is pulling all the strings" 
Typo fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 14:41
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The fake histories have targs doing things because of secret ancient prophecies a whole bunch of times, I don't think it's much of a stretch to connect the various prophecies and ice and fire themed apocalyptic events to one another, I said this itt before but this was really always my expectation, these things are connected, either way Aegon's particular motivation for doing one thing or another is not interesting to me, it's all very much in the style of the star wars cash grabs like I never asked myself why the guy is called Han Solo, I just assumed that's his name you know? there's no element of excitement to me if he's actually Han Smith, who gives a poo poo? AND although I do repeat myself a lot itt I'll say that this is actually WORSE than Star Wars because Star Wars had the benefit of actually having story elements people care about that had well regarded payoff, not the solo thing of course but idk maybe people did care about how Vader became such a bad dude? I mean after all that was the premise of the prequels all along and people did sign up for that but with the wet fart that is GoT who is expected to care about the grandfather of the lady who turned out to be dumb and evil? who cares about the history of the dragons if the dragons didn't matter?
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Aug 11, 2022 15:07
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The way early books handled prophecies was always the best it was always unclear whether prophecies were real actual magical things, self-fulfilling Macbeth type prediction, or just poo poo someone completely made up to gain favor with <noble X> the later books lean way too heavily into them being real actual magical things and it makes them less interesting
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Aug 11, 2022 15:19
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I find it amusing that the doomsday zombies only want to threaten one continent.
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Aug 11, 2022 15:25
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Typo posted:The way early books handled prophecies was always the best Yeah, these were examples of genuinely good writing. Another was how every different group interpreted the red comet at the beginning of aCoK in a different way, usually in their own favor.
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Aug 11, 2022 15:28
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Arc Hammer posted:I find it amusing that the doomsday zombies only want to threaten one continent. Well the nebulously canon/fan fiction lore book heavily insinuates that basically every society in Essos has their own version of the Long Night legend so apparently the Others gently caress with them too but the idea will almost certainly never be developed further.
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Aug 11, 2022 15:29
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