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Mordiceius posted:Sanderson has been asked about "finishing ASOIAF" multiple times and his response is always the same: Heck no. He also just doesn't care for the books, not his cup of tea. He recognizes and acknowledges GRRMs talent and that they are groundbreaking books, but they're not for him. Joe Abercrombie is the name that pops up as GRRM's Sanderson and I think it makes a lot of sense, Abercrombie's stuff is way closer to Martin in terms of tone, but Martin has also said if he dies then gently caress you nobody is allowed to finish the books so the chances of ever getting anything other than the HBO ending are pretty small
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Feb 2, 2024 20:34
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Jose Valasquez posted:Joe Abercrombie is the name that pops up as GRRM's Sanderson and I think it makes a lot of sense, Abercrombie's stuff is way closer to Martin in terms of tone, but Martin has also said if he dies then gently caress you nobody is allowed to finish the books so the chances of ever getting anything other than the HBO ending are pretty small Also Sanderson and Abercrombie are big fans of each others' works and it's a joy watching them interact. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRD-mtBq0pM
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Feb 2, 2024 20:36
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Jose Valasquez posted:He also just doesn't care for the books, not his cup of tea. He recognizes and acknowledges GRRMs talent and that they are groundbreaking books, but they're not for him.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:51
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Louisgod posted:Also Sanderson and Abercrombie are big fans of each others' works and it's a joy watching them interact. Watching this, about 12 minutes in, and I've realized that the host hasn't talked in ages and it's just Joe and Brandon talking.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:52
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Mordiceius posted:Patrick Rothfuss seems like he's in the same boat. GRRM was actually a good and respectable writer at one point. Rothfuss is a genuinely bad writer with ~good prose~ (not really) who basically hit the literary jackpot like Stephanie Meyers and then fumbled it through his own hubris, ineptitude, and charity scams so instead of becoming a worldwide cultural phenomenon he ended up with a cult of fellow Whedonites and incels as his fans. You can find stuff on Kindle Unlimited and Royal Road that's more coherent and better written than the Kingkiller books.
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Feb 2, 2024 22:44
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Evil Fluffy posted:Rothfuss is a genuinely bad writer with ~good prose~ (not really) who basically hit the literary jackpot like Stephanie Meyers and then fumbled it through his own hubris, ineptitude, and charity scams so instead of becoming a worldwide cultural phenomenon he ended up with a cult of fellow Whedonites and incels as his fans. You can find stuff on Kindle Unlimited and Royal Road that's more coherent and better written than the Kingkiller books. I've never read his books but I know some people that hold his two Kingkiller books as the loving pinnacle of fiction and I find that loving baffling. Booktok seems especially loving enamored with him and I just don't get it. Fun fact - The Wise Man's Fear came out March 1st 2011, almost 13 years past its release. Maybe I'm being super critical, but there's no excuse for that. You can't even pretend that third book is coming at this point. For comparison's sake - the biggest gap in releases of the Wheel of Time was 4 years, but that was in between the last Jordon book and the first Sanderson book. Before that, there was never more than 3 years separating releases. Mostly 1-2 years. For ASOIAF, it will have been 13 years since the last book as of this July. Prior to that, the biggest gap was 6 years between Feast of Crows and Dance of Dragons. Call me entitled or whatever, but I feel like if you claim to be writing and epic series and then don't release a novel in that series for over a decade, you're not only a bad author but you're an rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 2, 2024 22:58
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I read ASOIAF in 2014. I liked it a lot. I had every faith GRRM would complete the series even as the people I was talking to at the time told me no way it was gonna happen. Here we are, a decade later, and I've long conceded they were right, and I was wrong. I have other criticisms of ASOIAF too, looking back at it. I've talked about it multiple times in this thread but Brandon gives me everything I got from GRRM and so much more. For all his claims of realism and poo poo, GRRM utterly neglected how pivotal religion is in a medieval setting. I mean, it's pivotal even now, but it was s so much moreso in ye olden times. Brandon never shies away from exploring theological questions, the role o freligion in politics, and finally the personal importance of religious belief. I've recently been reading a thesis on using Harry Potter as an education tool for young people to instill values. I know HP's overwhelming popularity and JKR being awful makes it not very cool to praise the seris now, but it has been one of the most influential pieces of media for a solid quarter-of-a-century. There's no use denying that. But anyway, I bring it up because the first chapter of the thesis is all about the importance of using stories to teach values, how they are superior tools to simply giving commands. I've never read His Dark Materials but after reading this from its author, I'm considering it: “We don’t need lists of rights and wrongs, tables of do’s and don’ts: we need books, time and silence. Thou shalt not is soon forgotten, but Once upon a time lasts forever” (Pullman, 1996, ¶ 8) I bring all this up because I feel another reason Sanderson appeals to me more than Martin is the cohesive moral vision in his stories. The other day I was praising Jaime's character, the struggle of incompatible loyalties and obligations. Martin executes that wonderfully, but I feel he almost gets lost in the moral ambiguity. It's not that some people aren't clearly right and other people aren't clearly wrong (the Boltons are obviously villains. In fact, ASOIAF has many cartoonish villains, such as the Bloody Mummers as well), but giving me a clear idea of why someone is right or wrong is not Martin's strength, at least in my memory. The ethical struggles of Sanderson's books, especially Stormlight, are much more detailed. I feel I have come away with a clear idea of what it means to be a good and virtuous person. That is something the best stories do, at least for me. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 23:08
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I have a lot more resentment towards Rothfuss than GRRM even though they're essentially in the same boat as non-productive authors. I guess the main differences for me are that GRRM was a good author, and he's going to die. Rothfuss has neither of those, he's just a shitlord creep. And yeah Sanderson is not finishing ASoIAF under any circumstance, he explicitly said he won't but also because it's not his style of writing at all and he knows he'd disappoint the fans.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:11
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Imagining Sanderson finish ASoIAF is pretty funny considering his trepidation toward anything sexual.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:15
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Louisgod posted:Imagining Sanderson finish ASoIAF is pretty funny considering his trepidation toward anything sexual. I was at a panel once where he mentioned he wrote a GRRM style GRIMDARK book early in his career and it was godawful and he hid it away never to be seen.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:49
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Louisgod posted:Imagining Sanderson finish ASoIAF Turns out the Seven were all (Cosmere spoilers, new reader don't click) Autonomy avatars the whole time.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:50
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NikkolasKing posted:In fact, ASOIAF has many cartoonish villains, such as the Bloody Mummers as well), but giving me a clear idea of why someone is right or wrong is not Martin's strength, at least in my memory. Also, I think that GRRM has been stuck and is never moving forward again because his story is fundamentally broken. We know that HBO got Dany destroying King's Landing and the series ending with Bran as King direct from GRRM, and those were stupid and bad. But whereas D&D were checklist-tickers who just went "plot summary says it's happening, loving write it", GRRM is famously a "gardener" who lets his stories walk towards their goal and is frequently surprised by how much they change along the way. But now he's too close to the end and with every step closer, his characters fight him harder, because that destination is not where they would go in any sane universe. And rather than, y'know, abandon the stupid ideas, he's either stopped writing entirely or is stuck there, writing increasingly meandering bullshit because he can't get the plot to move forward any more.
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Feb 3, 2024 00:11
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On one of his podcasts, Sanderson said he wants the Cosmere to be complete by the time he's GRRM's age (aka around 70). So this means we have about another 20-25 years of Cosmere books.
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Feb 3, 2024 00:17
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What is the feeling on where Stormlight 6-10 will be going? Is the "climax" of the Cosmere going to be Stormlight 10, the end of Mistborn Era 4, or something else? Spoilers for everything up to Sunlit Man: We know there's some interplanetary arms race going on by the time of Sunlit Man. But from the reaction of the Scadrians to Sigzil being Rosharan, I couldn't really tell if the conflict was Roshar v. Scadrial, or more of an everybody versus everybody deal. Are we anticipating a huge time leap between Stormlight 5 and 6? It seems like Lost Metal and Rhythm of War are happening close in time to each other, if so Roshar and everywhere else have some catching up to do if the interplanetary space conflict is going to ramp up. Even more so for Threnody, Nalthis, and the Elantris planet, which Sunlit Man and Tress tell us are all in play. Then there's Yolen still out there, which Hoid tells us in Lost Metal is at that point still ahead technologically, but Scadrial is catching up quickly. I'm excited to see how it all comes together and where it's all gonna go. And unlike ASOIAF, I have full faith that Sanderson will pull it off.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:15
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Tokelau All Star posted:What is the feeling on where Stormlight 6-10 will be going? Is the "climax" of the Cosmere going to be Stormlight 10, the end of Mistborn Era 4, or something else? iirc he has always talked about his big indulgent megacrossover finale being separate from Stormlight.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:19
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CapnAndy posted:Yeah, but he'll be dead and I'm sure whoever inherits his estate likes money. depends on how much other authors like GRRM. Zelazny told one of friends once he didn't want him writing amber sequels (since he wanted amber to be his own possession), and in response everyone who was his friends in SFF circles (people like brust, neil gaiman, grrm, etc) refused to work on it, and told other people not to do it either. The estate eventually found someone who was willing to bend the rules enough to do a series of prequels but it was some no-name and they kinda sucked.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:32
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CapnAndy posted:Jaime's character arc is a masterwork, but I still think it's Cersei that's GRRM's greatest triumph. With Jaime he gives us a completely irredeemable villain and then puts us inside his head and shows us why he's that way and why he genuinely thinks everything he does is for the best, and we come out the other side with Jaime being a fan favorite hero. And then, to top it, he gives us another completely irredeemable villain and puts us inside her head and shows us why she's that way and why she genuinely thinks everything she does is for the best, and we come out the other side going "holy poo poo, you're exactly as evil as we thought and also stupid too, we hate you even worse now". Just wanted to say I agree with this analysis wholeheartedly. Cersei is amazing because she's constantly underestimated for being a woman, still more than competent enough to get what she wants despite that, but too up her own rear end to realize what she wants is sabotaging her best interests. She's a tragic character in the Shakespearean sense that you love to see fail because of it and love to hate when she succeeds. Your analysis of GRRM and Benioff and Weiss also explains why the series ended on such a wet fart. There's a way to get to the ending shown in the finale in a logical and competent way, but it requires a completely different kind of writer than GRRM or D&D.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:37
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DarkHorse posted:There's a way to get to the ending shown in the finale in a logical and competent way, but it requires a completely different kind of writer than GRRM or D&D. I’m all ears. I’ve no interest in watching the show anyway, so might as well learn how it could have ended competently in a different world.
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Feb 3, 2024 02:38
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DarkHorse posted:There's a way to get to the ending shown in the finale in a logical and competent way, but it requires a completely different kind of writer than GRRM or D&D.
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Feb 3, 2024 02:47
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CapnAndy posted:I strongly disagree. There's absolutely no logical or competent way to get to King Bran, and Dany turning heel is completely unworkable because she's been an unabashed savior whose greatest flaw so far is that she's so desperate to give her people a good life that she accepts a series of obviously bad deals and treats an insurgency with kid gloves. (And don't give me "oh she killed a bunch of people" because those were loving slavers, and yes actually, it is completely morally justified to massacre slavers wherever you find them.) My memory of the end of Book 5 is that Dany was heading, if not for a heel turn, a nevertheless more ruthless turn. She has a thoroughly broken Tyrion with her now, suggesting she start poisoning wells. She had some sort of vision quest (sorry, it's been ten years) where her realization at the end was the Targ motto - Fire & Blood. Mad Queen Dany is not what I ever anticipated, and I also never watched the TV show, but my impression is Daenerys had matured into a more hardcore conqueror and would descend upon Westeros in a fury. I was looking forward to it.... gently caress you, George.
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Feb 3, 2024 03:02
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Man I remember people calling her heel turn in the book thread as far back as season one. It made sense, and it was suitably subversive, but the way it was executed in the show was rear endTokelau All Star posted:What is the feeling on where Stormlight 6-10 will be going? Is the "climax" of the Cosmere going to be Stormlight 10, the end of Mistborn Era 4, or something else? I actually just finished the Sunlit Man and was amazed at just how much he gave away about the future of the cosmere while remaining completely spoiler free. What an incredible gift to cosmere fans, as dedicated.
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Feb 3, 2024 03:18
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CapnAndy posted:I strongly disagree. There's absolutely no logical or competent way to get to King Bran, and Dany turning heel is completely unworkable because she's been an unabashed savior whose greatest flaw so far is that she's so desperate to give her people a good life that she accepts a series of obviously bad deals and treats an insurgency with kid gloves. (And don't give me "oh she killed a bunch of people" because those were loving slavers, and yes actually, it is completely morally justified to massacre slavers wherever you find them.) In the show absoltuely. In the books she has internal monologues where she all but states she'll burn the city to the ground the moment she gets a chance
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Feb 3, 2024 03:33
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Tunicate posted:In the show absoltuely. In the books she has internal monologues where she all but states she'll burn the city to the ground the moment she gets a chance Yeah there's not enough time to get there in the show the way they decided to do things, but with the books if you can go from an incestuous child murderer to admirable heroic figure you can go from admirable heroic figure to murderous genocidal tyrant. You don't even have to rely on Targaryen madness - though that could certainly help things along - plenty of roads to hell have been paved with good intentions, and Dany had both good intentions and plenty of trauma to warp her
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Feb 3, 2024 03:54
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MB era 4 will be the cosmere's conclusion more or less, as it should follow all the other current series and drayonsteel.
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Feb 3, 2024 05:47
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They had all of season 7 and season 8 to slowly bring Dany to Cersei's level of competent and malicious But they did not, even if they had the writing talent to pull it off, because I'm sure the production committee was enamored with everyone naming their kids after her and all the merchandizing dollars such a fan favorite brings in to poison that well. big mean giraffe posted:MB era 4 will be the cosmere's conclusion more or less, as it should follow all the other current series and drayonsteel. I figure there will be a Dragonsteel 2 & 3 or something that cover the real finale.
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Feb 3, 2024 05:49
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Drayonsteel will be a trilogy and its essential the cosmere origins
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Feb 3, 2024 05:53
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Yeah who could have guessed that one of the Targaryens would make a heel turn and kill a bunch of innocent people the second she got to the city
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Feb 3, 2024 14:46
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Tokelau All Star posted:What is the feeling on where Stormlight 6-10 will be going? Is the "climax" of the Cosmere going to be Stormlight 10, the end of Mistborn Era 4, or something else? I feel like we have good info by Word of Brandon to answer this partly. Stormlight 6-10 will have books with Renarin, Jasnah and Lift as focus characters, just like WoK/RoW/Oathbringer were for Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar. That puts a rather clear upper limit on the length of the time skip. It will be like 10-20 years at most, imho. So the second half of Stormlight Archive will not be the big spacefaring Cosmere saga.
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Feb 3, 2024 15:15
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Please quarantine the GURM chat to his own thread, tysm
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Feb 3, 2024 19:36
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TWoK - Part 5 Got all the way to the beginning of Part 6 in TWoK. I love how it went from Shallan wants to be the pupil to Jasnah to Jasnah is actually kinda of a bitch and acts like she’s on this super huge high horse to “I’m gonna steal this girl’s Soulcaster.” Also, looking at all the maps of Karbranth, I wish there was a way to visit that city. It looks awesome.
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Feb 4, 2024 02:03
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A Sneaker Broker posted:TWoK - Part 5 There are some cool cities that can only exist in fantasy in Stormlight Archive. Karbaranth is for sure one of those. I was looking up when the first chapter for Rhythm of War was released on tor.com. It was on July 23rd, and Rhythm of War came out on November 17th. So roughly a four months gap between the first teaser chapter, and the book coming out. If it works the same for Winds and Truth, we can expect the first excerpt from that book around August. I'm very excited for this.
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Feb 4, 2024 11:19
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Torrannor posted:
I love the "book club" discussion this forces. Otherwise the thread becomes a no go zone for those of us who can't read the whole book overnight.
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Feb 4, 2024 14:41
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enigma105 posted:I love the "book club" discussion this forces. Otherwise the thread becomes a no go zone for those of us who can't read the whole book overnight. Unfortunately, the thread becomes a no-go zone for those who don't want to read any spoilers about the upcoming book before it's release, so somebody always "suffers" here. But you're spot on, the "book club" discussion when the chapters are released are always a joy.
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Feb 4, 2024 14:59
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CapnAndy posted:Jaime's character arc is a masterwork, but I still think it's Cersei that's GRRM's greatest triumph. With Jaime he gives us a completely irredeemable villain and then puts us inside his head and shows us why he's that way and why he genuinely thinks everything he does is for the best, and we come out the other side with Jaime being a fan favorite hero. And then, to top it, he gives us another completely irredeemable villain and puts us inside her head and shows us why she's that way and why she genuinely thinks everything she does is for the best, and we come out the other side going "holy poo poo, you're exactly as evil as we thought and also stupid too, we hate you even worse now". Jaime's backstory making him a villain is also dumb as poo poo and yet another Stark Male gently caress up because "this guy broke his oath and killed the insane genocidal king he swore to protect instead of letting them commit genocide" is the kind of thing only honor-blinded dipshits like Ned and co would care about. That Jaime reveals the mad king was giving an order that would kill every single person in the city just further cements that yes, everyone hung up about him breaking his oath is at best ignorant of what happened, a stubborn idiot like Ned, or an rear end in a top hat noble who really doesn't want Westeros to lionize someone who killed a member of the ruling class due to self-preservation.
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Feb 4, 2024 19:30
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TWoK - Part 7 If Sanderson is making me believe that Jasnah is a bitch, he’s done a great job. Also, good luck to whichever director has to figure out the scale of the veil and all those alcoves and darkness.
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Feb 4, 2024 20:14
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81sidewinder posted:Please quarantine the GURM chat to his own thread, tysm
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Feb 4, 2024 20:15
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A Sneaker Broker posted:TWoK - Part 7 I can just imagine some deranged fans going over the video materials and searching for extras who don't have their safehand hidden. Or have hidden their right hand instead of their left hand.
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Feb 4, 2024 21:49
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Finished The Way of Kings earlier this week. Hoo baby this rules. Coming off of Wheel of Time I wanted something similar, but more organized, haha. Feels like I hit the jackpot here. I also think this book had way less of my biggest criticism of Sanderson than his Wheel books or Mistborn era 1 - that the magic systems explanations can feel like a D and D manual. The powers are explained pretty thoroughly, but seemed to fit the narrative much more seamlessly. Kaladin is one of my favorite characters, ever the way we had his current story interwoven into the flashbacks and then they both simultaneously get a payoff, just so satisfying. He's obviously our main character, and I'm sure things will continue to get worse, then better, then worse for him I wish Shallan and Jasnah were woven into the main story a little better in this book. I'm sure it's coming, but the way their story played out almost felt like a different book. Excited to see how their arrival stirs things up Dalinar, Adolin and Navani their portions of the book were kind of tedious early on, but really ramped up into an excellent payoff. From when he gets betrayed until the end of the story is so much fun. Predictions - 1. Dalinar's visions are obviously the 'big bad' of the story, and are probably the underlying threat going on while the people jockey for position in the worlds of men. Bringing back the Knights Radiant is a books-long story and it's probably going to pay off in book 5. 2. Shallan and Kaladin have a romance that is complicated by their roles in the conflict. When they ultimately get together, it will be a great moment. 3. Szeth is the Han Solo/Lan Mandragoron of the story. He continues to be a tortured badass and ultimately joins the heroes. 4. The truth about Dalinar's wife rocks the heroes in a big way - his relationship with either Adolin or Navani is dramatically altered when we learn the truth 5. Elhokar is likely to die pretty quickly to create a power vacuum
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Feb 4, 2024 22:41
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Torrannor posted:I can just imagine some deranged fans going over the video materials and searching for extras who don't have their safehand hidden. Or have hidden their right hand instead of their left hand. Related, is it explicitly stated that the safehand is always the right? I assumed it was just the non-dominant hand since I don't remember it being explicitly mentioned
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Feb 4, 2024 22:44
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I love prediction posts! I won't spoil anything, except to say that some were close to the mark and some are far off. Keep posting through your journey! 
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