|
The general feminism thread is a ridiculously hostile environment, something I specifically addressed in my thread. Oh well.
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 01:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 18, 2024 09:44 |
|
|
Gau posted:The general feminism thread is a ridiculously hostile environment, something I specifically addressed in my thread. That sucks. I liked your thread 
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 01:18
|
|
|
I'm super disappointed. I mean, shutting down the thread just because the shitlords MIGHT infest it in the future shows a... well, to be honest, a pretty realistic lack of faith in humanity. But it seems to me that fighting against that exact resignation in the face of ugliness is the whole point of what that thread is supposed to do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 01:18
|
|
|
It seems like feminism and minority issues within tradgames is its own special problem. I don't think linking a Reaper Sophie miniature is going to have any resonance whatsoever outside of here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 01:25
|
|
|
Tendales posted:I'm super disappointed. I mean, shutting down the thread just because the shitlords MIGHT infest it in the future shows a... well, to be honest, a pretty realistic lack of faith in humanity. Posters manifesting a terminal case of point-missing had appeared by the end of page 2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 01:34
|
|
|
Tendales posted:I'm super disappointed. I mean, shutting down the thread just because the shitlords MIGHT infest it in the future shows a... well, to be honest, a pretty realistic lack of faith in humanity.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 02:18
|
|
|
That's kind of my point, though. I know it's all naive and idealistic and yadda yadda, but letting the creepy people determine what we can't talk about sounds super lovely to me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 02:24
|
|
|
I've been listening to an actual play podcast of 4E from 2009. What's funny is that its from people who have never played an RPG before, let alone Dungeons and Dragons. One of the guys keeps favorably comparing it to WoW which considering the grognard backlash is amusing. He's using it as a good thing though. I think this is good for the hobby, seeing more people get in to it. Dungeons and Dragons, being the most well known RPG is sort of the ambassador for role-playing. It needs to be as accessible as possible for the good of all of the other games, even the groggy sexist retroclones that were made as a response to 4th edition.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 02:26
|
|
|
Tendales posted:That's kind of my point, though. I know it's all naive and idealistic and yadda yadda, but letting the creepy people determine what we can't talk about sounds super lovely to me. I guess if they legitimately don't have a mod who is willing to be responsible for looking after the thread there's not much they can do. It seems mildly crazy that it's impossible to keep that sort of discussion inside the lines but if no-one is willing to take it on that doesn't leave much room to manuver.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 03:27
|
|
|
Do any of the mods even read TG without reports being submitted or what.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 03:31
|
|
|
I like to think that this recent outpouring of misogynist bullshit is the death throws of the old guard. They've realized their hobby's trenches are overrun by new fresh blood, and reverting to their basest xenophobic instincts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 03:33
|
|
|
Drox posted:Do any of the mods even read TG without reports being submitted or what. Zorak's posted in a couple of threads, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 03:35
|
|
|
Drox posted:Do any of the mods even read TG without reports being submitted or what.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 03:42
|
|
|
from both a player and Dm perspective I prefer that the relative strength of a creature or character be something you learn about as you play. I also like it when veteran players pretend not to know the specifics of a monster they may have fought using other characters when they are using a new character or playing one of their hirelings or henchmen. I think there's enough metagaming going on in this hobby as it is I am not going to get on board with an idea that basically tells the players how tough an encounter is. Some of the fun in playing D&D for me and my friends is taking risks and overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds. If you want to play this way then go right ahead but please don't make me and those who like the mystery of a new creature have to play that way too. Use in game techniques to instill fear such as rumors and legends and horror stories. Sometimes a well told lie is easily more effective than a game mechanic to impart the danger or lack there of in your players. Last time I looked D&D was a role playing game. From my perspective that means pretending to be someone who lives in a setting, interacting with the people and places around them. sometime you have to fight things, sometimes you go looking for a fight, but D&D isn't a combat simulator no matter how hard the designers of the last version tried to make it one. Play your ignorant pretend self as if everything in the world can and will kill you and don't worry about whether you should run away or stay and fight. Oh, and don't name your character until 5th level.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 06:33
|
|
|
quote:Mostly I just want 5e to take the best of all prior editions and cobble together a fantastic D&D experience. I want that to the degree that I hope they restrain themselves from introducing too many new rules or elements that don't hearken back to at least one (but ideally more than one) prior edition. What do you wan't next? All creatures walk around with 20 ft wide neon nameplates in case you don't know the name of unknown creature? You have your knowledge checks. If no one in party doesn't have them? Too bad. Run away or charge and see how it goes. You can also roll sense motive/insight if you interact with high level character that is disguised as a beggar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 06:35
|
|
|
By using knowledge checks, they demonstrate that they are pathetic dissociated-mechanic WoW button-pressing babbies who are ruining the hobby. There's no "chance" involved in knowing something, you either know it or you don't, therefore it's dissociated, therefóre it's evil, like the word "story". The true roleplayer would gauge monster strength through long it takes to kill 10 hirelings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 07:29
|
|
|
Gau posted:The general feminism thread is a ridiculously hostile environment, something I specifically addressed in my thread. Three cheers for FYAD, making SA more of a loving shitheap one thread at a time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 07:38
|
|
|
poo poo guys, a bunch of idiots are totally going to come into your thread and spout horrible misogynist garbage. What? Ban them? Ahahaha no.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 08:05
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:Three cheers for FYAD, making SA more retarded one thread at a time. Mornacale posted:poo poo guys, a bunch of idiots are totally going to come into your thread and spout horrible misogynist garbage. C'mon it's Something Awful guys. FYAD posters are the pinnacle of good posting. Rasamune posted:This isn't WoW! Helping your players not die/do dumb things? That's dumb babby game poo poo. D&D Isn't Your Nanny State, OBAMA!
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 08:16
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Helping your players not die/do dumb things? That's dumb babby game poo poo. D&D Isn't Your Nanny State, OBAMA! I don't even remember the name of the drat thing, but it was a worm. It attacked by crawling into your ear. It lived in the locks in doors. Gygax invented a monster and put it in his game purely to gently caress over players who were taking him at his word and carefully listening at every door before opening it. Frankly I'm surprised there aren't stories of players giving Gygax an rear end-kicking now and then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 08:53
|
|
|
isildur posted:I don't even remember the name of the drat thing, but it was a worm. It attacked by crawling into your ear. It lived in the locks in doors. Ear seekers. My impression is that Gary Gygax took a long time to fully understand what he created when he made D&D: at first he didn't really get why people got attached to their characters and identified with them instead of seeing them as expendable game pieces. There are articles from him expressing gentle bewilderment at the idea that people would want to play-act as their characters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 08:58
|
|
|
Thuryl posted:Ear seekers. *Which is why a lot of the old NPCs are just some player's name spelled backwards, or with the letters rearranged.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 09:39
|
|
|
Old Kentucky Shark posted:
Or "Melf". E: A most worthy 3000th post.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 09:50
|
|
|
Thuryl posted:Ear seekers. There's a story about Gygax running a tournament for a bunch of different groups at one of the early Gencons. He would DM an adventure he created, and whichever group made it the farthest won. The whole tournament was supposed to run for 8 hours or so, but he was finished after two. Every group but the last died immediately to the first trap: a "wall" of shadow in a narrow hallway in front of a pit. The last group made it past and Gygax declared them the winners. But Gary was confused as gently caress; his group would have never died to such a simple trap. People were just playing a different game with his rules.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 09:56
|
|
|
Rigby, Digby, Higby, Bigby, and Zigby. The grand original mages. You've heard of the one who lasted the longest before dying and being replaced with Figby.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 09:56
|
|
|
Thuryl posted:Ear seekers. What gets me about the ear-seeker (thanks for that) is that it subverts training that Gygax specifically gave his players. He taught them to listen at doors before breaking them down, and then put a monster in to kill them if they did that. It's like the thing in Tomb of Horrors. (I'm going to spoiler this because if you haven't played Tomb of Horrors, and you can find some sick fucker to run it for you, it's a fantastic lesson in the design goals of 1e.) There are three pit traps in a row. You fall into the first one, maybe the second, but definitely spot the third and avoid it. And walk into an unavoidable death trap, because the real exit was in the third pit. Building content by hiding information from the players, intentionally exploiting their player expectations to kill them off ('it looks like an ogre!'), and training them to act in certain ways so you can ultimately kill them... is so particularly Gygaxian that I wouldn't think even the groggiest of OD&D grogs would be able to get behind it. It isn't D&D. It's weird sadism. (And yet, of course, I'm wrong; I know there's someone out there who thinks the ear seeker is cool, and disguising Orcus as an ogre in your flavor text is hilarious.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 10:12
|
|
|
isildur posted:
The people who thought stuff like the ear seeker was cool were Gygax's players. By all accounts his games were an escalating arms race of what gets called "player skill" nowadays (knowing your GM) and Gygax's hellish deathtraps. Gygax's players would kick the door to a room open and kill all the monsters, taking their treasure. The next time they try it, there's an immensely difficult monster on the other side, and some characters are killed when they try to escape. Next time, they listen at the door, Gygax describes the sound of something huge on the other side, and the players skip it. The NEXT time, someone puts their ear to door, ear seeker kills them, and so on, and so forth, and eventually we get The Temple of Elemental Evil.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 10:20
|
|
|
And yet, we have the story of the cleric class being created because Gygax let someone in his group play a vampire and someone else wanted to kill it. Did the man just have a funhaver phase, or were the death traps the anomaly? Or maybe the vampire thing was his realization of a player's true weakness: the other players.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 11:26
|
|
|
Whenever you hear about someone having fun in those early games, it's either an accident or because of Dave Arneson.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 13:15
|
|
Mornacale posted:poo poo guys, a bunch of idiots are totally going to come into your thread and spout horrible misogynist garbage. I don't actually see FYADs doing this all that often, as opposed to a combination of getting offended by specific positions/propositions, implicitly declaring that pop culture has no and/or a tiny relationship to systematic oppression and thus is inappropriate, insisting that internet activism means slacktivism in total, and mocking perceived badposters and badposts. So they're annoying and I think generally wrong in a lot of their opinions, but they rarely are ironically sexist in feminism threads because they dislike them too intensely to joke around. That said, I can certainly see, as a former Minorities in Video Games poster, why moderators and admins would want to avoid further threads along those lines, since they attract a lot of terrible posters, generally end up getting more and more insular, and basically require intensive moderating to be viable rather than sick jokes. Of course, the gassed thread wasn't doing too bad on those fronts, but still. Nolanar posted:And yet, we have the story of the cleric class being created because Gygax let someone in his group play a vampire and someone else wanted to kill it. Did the man just have a funhaver phase, or were the death traps the anomaly? Or maybe the vampire thing was his realization of a player's true weakness: the other players. The thing is, the whole Soup Nazi style of play we see from so many grogs is a later development. Gygax thought that you should give players what they want if it's reasonable, but they should have to work for their treasure and glory. If you can find it Role-Playing Mastery is a good look into what Gygax thought during the 1980s.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 13:24
|
|
|
poo poo, I was enjoying that feminism thread
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:16
|
|
|
LinkMalaDicta posted:Okay, you know what? gently caress this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:18
|
|
|
filigree posted:While I don't subscribe to the oh-so-fashionable "rape culture" bullshit canon (and the rest) - and yes, it *is* indisputably just theory - I most definitely am on the side of every victim, and every survivor. It's a horrible thing for anyone to go through, male or female, young or old, etc. No you're not.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:19
|
|
|
Nebalebadingdong posted:poo poo, I was enjoying that feminism thread
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:23
|
|
|
Nebalebadingdong posted:poo poo, I was enjoying that feminism thread I'm guessing we're supposed to post about the issue in the general feminism thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:27
|
|
|
That's it. That's my limit. What the gently caress, guys. gently caress this hobby.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:28
|
|
|
JDCorley posted:By using knowledge checks, they demonstrate that they are pathetic dissociated-mechanic WoW button-pressing babbies who are ruining the hobby. There's no "chance" involved in knowing something, you either know it or you don't, therefore it's dissociated, therefóre it's evil, like the word "story". The true roleplayer would gauge monster strength through long it takes to kill 10 hirelings. The TRUE Roleplayer has already read every book in the system and committed it to memory, so they know every stat of the monsters. Sorry you spent your time playing WoW babbies, if you had committed yourself to something important instead you could sit at our table. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:42
|
|
|
GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:The TRUE Roleplayer has already read every book in the system and committed it to memory, so they know every stat of the monsters. Sorry you spent your time playing WoW babbies, if you had committed yourself to something important instead you could sit at our table.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:44
|
|
|
isildur posted:But also, as per the preface to the 1e DMG by the Holy Sage Gygax, any player demonstrating knowledge of anything outside the Player's Handbook should be penalized by taking away their magic items. That is NOT what our Lord and Savior E. Gary Gygax intended by that passage, and no matter what facts you present, (my favorite edition) is the one true version of D&D sanctioned by him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 18, 2024 09:44 |
|
|
mandrake776 posted:Link I'm badly tempted to sign up for that site and put up another petition calling out SJG, Desborough, and the collection of imbeciles that ran the "counter-petition," just so we can keep this dialogue moving without her having to be bombarded with anymore bullshit. Problem is, the fuckheads would probably just rally behind their existing harassment petition and give her even more grief instead of sending anything to me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2012 14:47
|
|
