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crestfallen posted:Thing is, Lufia is an easy enough game even on regular difficulty. At most, you only need a few extra weapons, rings, and jewels. Maaaaaaybe a couple extra armor-type pieces with exceptionally good abilities, but even then, meh. The only time you really need to think about your equipment is in one later optional fight, and the first fight with Gades.
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May 11, 2015 11:30
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I also like this dungeon for the same reason people have said: Maxim and Selan work out the issue without having to use the magic mirror and it still gets used anyway. Also to veterans of the first game that reveal is even less of a 'reveal' than the intro of the game would have you believe. Then again that's pretty true for most things in this game, what's interesting is not how things end but how things actually played out.
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May 11, 2015 13:31
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What was Iris trying to find out with that mirror, anyway? I can't figure it out.
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May 11, 2015 17:14
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Glazius posted:What was Iris trying to find out with that mirror, anyway? I can't figure it out. Iris's whole shtick is that she knows the future and is trying to guide things along the right path. Maxim was fated to die previously (against Gades, wasn't it?). Since he didn't, Iris has been flying blind, so she's trying to figure out how Maxim and Selan "fit together" so to speak, to get some idea of how things are going to go. At least, that's my reading of it.
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May 11, 2015 17:19
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Iris's whole shtick is that she knows the future and is trying to guide things along the right path. Maxim was fated to die previously (against Gades, wasn't it?). Since he didn't, Iris has been flying blind, so she's trying to figure out how Maxim and Selan "fit together" so to speak, to get some idea of how things are going to go. The weird thing with this is that Iris was the one who saved Maxim from dying in the tower in the first place.
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May 11, 2015 19:31
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At this point, I don't think even Iris knows what the gently caress she's doing. She saved the guy she's been guiding to his apparent prophesied death, and now everything is going tits up and she's making it all up as she goes. The GM's Pet NPC theory really works super well here.
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May 11, 2015 21:54
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I've actually got a pet theory about Iris but it involves spoilers from other games in the series, including the DS version. Mind if I post it Blastinus?
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May 11, 2015 22:16
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I've actually got a pet theory about Iris but it involves spoilers from other games in the series, including the DS version. Mind if I post it Blastinus? Spoiler tags only, but sure.
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May 12, 2015 02:06
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I always assumed that Iris was romantically inclined towards Maxim - hence why she saved him from death and why she wanted to see how close Selan and Maxim really were: trying to see if there was any doubt in their minds about each other. I assumed it's why she seemed quiet when looking at the mirror - she realised that the both of them were a perfect fit, that they worked together in tandem and trusted each other completely. She realised that she didn't stand a chance and, well, that's when the big reveal occurs - because there's no more reason for her to keep being Iris -the potential love interest who always shows up to save the day - to the player. She is now Erim in our minds and one of the enemies, not a sympathetic character any more. Her chances for romance with Maxim are gone. I could go into it further but some stuff needs to happen. Those of you who've played know what I'm aiming at, though, I'm sure. Oh, keep in mind that I formed that theory when I first played the game and it was the first Lufia I'd played, so... silversatyr fucked around with this message at 04:05 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 02:33
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Blastinus posted:Spoiler tags only, but sure. Actually I think I'll wait until you get towards the end. Even though I'm sure everyone knows what the game is building towards, I don't wanna ruin that part. But it's tucked away safely in a file for that day.
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May 12, 2015 02:52
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How far into the game are we?
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May 12, 2015 03:23
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ultrafilter posted:How far into the game are we? If memory serves, there's a decent bit left, but pretty far! I'd say... 4/5, maybe?
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May 12, 2015 03:38
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Limit Break is doing a speedrun of Lufia 2 right now, if anyone was interested in seeing it in action (and speedran).  Spoiler warnings should be obvious. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 15:34 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 15:32
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KataraniSword posted:Limit Break is doing a speedrun of Lufia 2 right now, if anyone was interested in seeing it in action (and speedran).
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May 15, 2015 16:07
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Zereth posted:That cannot be worth it for a speedrun. How in the hell could the time lost to the many tries it'd take to get it be less than the time saved from having it around? Because all that matters is the ONE GOOD RUN.
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May 15, 2015 16:12
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:Because all that matters is the ONE GOOD RUN.
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May 15, 2015 16:20
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Zereth posted:That cannot be worth it for a speedrun. How in the hell could the time lost to the many tries it'd take to get it be less than the time saved from having it around? In fairness, it was only 10 minutes lost, but yeah, he started from the beginning for that for some reason?  Probably some cryptic RNG manipulation thing.
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May 15, 2015 16:38
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:Because all that matters is the ONE GOOD RUN. I try very hard to be "live and let live" about that kind of thing, but I just cannot fathom how people think that this sort of thing is worth it. And that's coming from a guy who frequents a forum built around watching other people play video games.
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May 15, 2015 16:50
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Sorry for the wait on the update. I'm currently struggling with the World's Most Difficult Trick. Getting this stupid floor to drop.
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May 15, 2015 17:42
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Blastinus posted:Sorry for the wait on the update. I'm currently struggling with the World's Most Difficult Trick. The bird is flying, not standing. Its weight shouldn't count. That's bullshit.
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May 15, 2015 17:46
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Raitzeno posted:The bird is flying, not standing. Its weight shouldn't count. That's bullshit. Actually, as it turns out, I'm just an idiot and that section of floor requires you to drop a monster in a different room down a hole. Puzzles!
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May 15, 2015 18:03
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Raitzeno posted:The bird is flying, not standing. Its weight shouldn't count. That's bullshit. The Mythbusters did a bit on this, didn't they? The downforce from the bird flapping (assuming it's hovering) should be roughly similar to its weight, albeit more broadly-distributed.
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May 15, 2015 18:04
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Blastinus posted:Actually, as it turns out, I'm just an idiot and that section of floor requires you to drop a monster in a different room down a hole. Are you me? I did the same loving thing playing this a few years ago 
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May 16, 2015 01:14
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Blastinus posted:Actually, as it turns out, I'm just an idiot and that section of floor requires you to drop a monster in a different room down a hole. I was gonna say "I don't remember having to do that and I've played this game well over 10 times by now. Did I miss another secret treasure?!" XD Good to see my memory wasn't playing hardball with me.
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May 16, 2015 02:24
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Well, that one took a while. That has to be some sort of record. Chapter 32: The World's Most Difficult Trick  So Iris is Erim from the intro. Kinda weird, huh?  Everything will become a lot clearer once we find the plot again.  Nice roadblock.  Too bad we're smarter than that. Onward to Chaed!    The elder of this village has gone to the local volcano in order to appeal to the Fire Dragon at its peak. This, naturally, demands our attention.  You know how this works by now, I'm sure.  The Rune Rapier is worth mentioning because it's one of the most powerful light-elemental swords in the game. We can take this to the end of the game and it'll still be useful, especially since every single Sinistral is weak to light.  Keep that archetype of yours going, Arty. That's it for Chaed. There'll be more to it later, but for now, it's just a vehicle to get us to the next dungeon. Perhaps the same could be said for all towns and villages.  Has anyone else ever wondered where giant floating eyeballs come from? Is there a race of very large people that had their eyes suddenly develop sentience on them? I hope not. That's friggin' morbid.  Their primary trick is attacking twice and using Hold Gaze. This inflicts paralysis. I don't like them.  In order to combat the threat of independent body parts, it's time for our current friend's ultimate form, which requires us to turn him back to Tier 3 for some reason. It's...  ...A fish again, but with a butt. And legs, but mostly a butt. Check out that GUT score though. It'll take a very specific amount of coaxing to get this guy to flee.  New CM in hand, it's dungeon time! And what a dungeon it is.   Because you see, the guardian of the mountain has weaponized one of the most terrifying creatures known to mankind.  I don't know if it's the serial killer eyes or the fact that my high school would regularly be visited by territorial and downright psychotic geese, but these "Crows" unnerve me more than any monster in the game.  Fortunately, Lies! has a new attack in his ultimate form that divebombs every enemy on the field. It's very powerful and quite handy.  Our first puzzle of this dungeon teaches us a new trick concerning bombs.  Bombs normally work on a turn timer. We've established that already. BUT, if a bomb explodes next to another bomb, it'll set it off in sequence, going down the entire line. You can detonate up to five bombs at once using this method, and that's just what we need to do to get the door open, since all this regrowing grass has to be gone at the same time.  Not simultaneously, mind you. There just has to be a single turn where all the grass is gone.   Gotta go fast! Except the Rocket Ring is much better for that. Pass!  Since I passed by these guys, let's just briefly go over what they are.  Venus Fly (traps) are just one of many plant type enemies. You burn them, they die. Simple as that.  Dragons are a bit more interesting. There are actually three different flavors of dragon on this mountain: green, red, and black, belonging to the water, fire, and shadow elements respectively. Green and Red drop Life and Power potions respectively, but the Black dragons drop Dark Fruit 12.5% of the time, which can be used to promote Legna to 5th tier. Unlike the giant unstoppable creatures you'd expect them to be, these dragons are...pretty easy. Not only are they weak to their counter elements, but they're all weak to flying and dragon damage. Don't worry though, there are MUCH more powerful dragons, especially the kinds that lurk in the Ancient Cave.  So let's talk about this puzzle. Or rather, how it's not actually a puzzle at all.  There's this funny section of floor and three monsters of different sizes that move around randomly. The 1-ton clue might suggest that you have to get a certain configuration of monsters to stand here. But you want to know the actual solution?  Go up one floor and get this completely unrelated monster to stand on this weak section.  To put it another way, stop overthinking things, you nerd! If a solution seems grindy and dumb, that's because it's probably not the solution.   Past the room full of palette swaps, we come to the area with this dungeon's key.  After going down two flights of stairs first, of course. This dungeon's full of up and down.  Let's just bypass the cracked floor cult, shall we?  Although it is worth noting that the upgraded T-Rexes, known as Brokions, have a 3% chance of dropping Miracles, which would be amazing if I was using the ones I already have. Anyway, you don't want to jump down that hole just yet, because...  It would be a considerable shame to have to go all the way back for this.   Just like the previous dungeon, the key door is accessible via a straight shot, more or less.  Not gonna lie, this is easily my favorite puzzle in the dungeon.   The room's gimmick involves combining the Hook and Hammer to get pillars in the right spots to cross. It might just be because I love the Hammer so much, but I had a lot of fun solving this one.  Presumably, they intended for you to get to the secret treasures on the upper left using a complicated series of pillar movements, but there's a considerably easier way to get to them.  Just go up and down stairs to reset the pillars and they're in the absolute perfect configuration.    No, not Semi-Pro. The game's just handing out 'super' versions of rings we've seen before. Higher level spells, better stats, that kind of thing. Not really showing off.  The Magic Scale, on the other hand...  Now then, we've beaten a puzzle with bombs, we've seen the hammer and hookshot, and now it's time to play with Fire Arrows.  It's an endurance test where you have to cut down growing plants before they reach their full growth.  If even one vine of Fantasy Kudzu fully buds, the game will cast Reset and force us to do it again.   Naturally, they're going to be springing up everywhere and they grow too fast for us to cut each one, so Fire Arrows to the rescue.  The vines start coming up closer to one another as the puzzle gets nearer to the end, but it's still very manageable.  I remember having a lot of trouble with this puzzle when I was younger, because I forgot about using the R button to swivel in place. Every step counts.  This bombable wall is actually pretty unique, because it's multi-layered and keeps growing back.  We'll come back to it shortly, because one of the most significant events of the game is hiding behind it.    Jeez, they never stop with the treasures.  Yeah, no.  The IP's kind of uninspiring, but the stats are okay.  If we were so inclined, we could get to the end of this dungeon by laying down a line of ice blocks in the lava, but we've got other business first.   And by that, I mean more rings. Holy crap! You guys do realize there's only four of us, right?  I'm sure you guys would be surprised to know that we're only about three or four dungeons away from the end of the game. It really doesn't feel like the game's leading up to anything right now.  Anyway, getting back to this wall, the trick to beating its regeneration is to do a variant on the simultaneous bomb detonation from earlier. You have to lay down a bomb in front of the wall, lay another one down and to the right, and then right after the top one explodes, lay a line like this.  This will weaken the wall enough so that a well-placed Hammer will finish the job. And what's behind this wall, you may ask?   I'll believe it when I see it.  Those of you with a fierce hatred of slide puzzles, avert your eyes right now.  Because the World's Most Difficult Trick is a bit more involved than your typical Professor Layton stuff. Edit from the future: Actually, that's a terrible lie. Not only does it appear in Professor Layton, albeit sideways, but it's actually a well-known puzzle called a Klotski. Why I've never heard of this before being corrected in the thread, I have no idea.  Regardless, play this for the next half hour, and you'll have a good idea of what solving this puzzle is like.  The basic gist of it is that you want to get the 2x2 treasure square in front of Maxim, and the only way you're going to accomplish that is if you can somehow get this horizontal segment past the square.  It's worth noting that even when following a guide on how to solve this thing, you're probably going to take at least 50 moves. Knowing how to manage the tiny pieces is key, since moving them around is basically the only way to make any headway in this cramped mess.  If you don't mind somewhat spotty video quality, there's a video of someone solving the World's Most Difficult Trick here. That's with following every step correctly. Odds are that you'll be lucky to stumble onto the solution in twenty minutes, let alone three.  Of note, the first track is the one that plays when you get three 7's on the Flower Slots, while the second is the music that plays during bonus time on the slots. It's a nice little tune, and one of the few reasons why the Flower Slots are worth playing, if you ask me.  Those poor 90's kids who didn't have Gamefaqs.   If you're willing to stick it out, the World's Most Difficult Trick has some really amazing rewards.   And when I say amazing, I mean just that.  Everything. EVERYTHING gets bounced! For a few turns, whoever wears this helmet is effectively invincible.  Consider that even Selan has 400+ health at this point and that healing IP's can also target CM's.  Dragons are now even less of a problem in this dungeon.  Considering the Legend Helm's effect, this seems kind of redundant, but it's no less awesome. Personally, there's no shame in consulting a guide for puzzles like this, especially when the rewards are so great. I gave it a try, believe you me, but eventually, the desire to actually have an update won out.  Going down the stairs from the puzzle brings us to this walkway where-  Yeah, that probably wasn't supposed to happen.  This either!  Long story short, the exit to the World's Most Difficult Trick leads us to where we'd be if we'd taken the ice block route.   : That's what I should say to you! It's dangerous for an old man to hang around here. : Don't think of me as an ordinary person.  : So this is the dragon!?: Go quickly! Go!: Don't worry, old man! We are not ordinary people either, right Maxim!?: Yeah!  The Fire Dragon is a decent threat, but a total chump with fire-resistant gear. He has 7,500 HP like the last boss and, like many dragons, is weak to flying as well. He's also weak to Ice, not Water, so Lies! is a bit out of his league here.  Good time for the Lizard Blow, eh?  Despite the name, Selan's Dragon Spear is actually water-elemental, so I probably should have moved Maxim to the front row.   Here's Boomerang in action. It's not very effective to reflect attacks back at the boss, but it sure is amusing.   His other main attack, while a bit hard on poor Lies! here, is easily managed.  Few more hits from the Lizard Blow, and he goes down quickly. Easy peasy.  : You can sense energy waves?: I told you I'm not an ordinary person. I see you are the warriors fighting the Sinistrals.: Yes.: I thought so...Then you should go to Preamarl...Well, it's not possible for humans to...: What's wrong?: Well, alright. If you happen to come to Chaed, would you come by my place?: Yes, we could do that.: I may be able to help you. Let's talk about it more at my place.: Alright.: I'll go back to Chaed. Actually, I hate heat. I just can't stand this heat!Hey, consider yourself lucky that convection rules aren't applying, then you'd really be feeling it.  On the way back to Chaed, Lies! learns his ultimate attack, which does exactly what it sounds like, sealing all magic on the enemy side. Fat chance getting it to work on bosses though.  : So what was it you wanted to talk about?: Yes...uh...it's about Dual Blade.: Do you know something about it?: It's only a legend passed on in my family. So I do not know if it's true, but...: That's ok. I want to know everything, anything at all about Dual Blade.: Alright. I hear the queen of Preamarl knows where Dual Blade lies.: Premearl...? How can we get there?: North by northeast is a crescent shaped island. The entrance to Preamarl should be under the island in the sea. Preamarl is a land of mermaids, you see.: A land of mermaids?Metal Gear? : Yes. Inside Preamarl is a submerged shrine. I hear there is one sword in the shrine.: You're saying that is Dual Blade?: That's right.: I just can't believe what you said about the land of mermaids...: Well, most folks feel that way. But I have proof that Preamarl exists. This jade is proof. This jade will be your key to Preamarl.: This jade? The key to the land of mermaids?Nanomachines? : Take it with you.: What? Are you sure? This must be very valuable to you...: If the legend is true, I want you to have it. You can really use it. It's no use to me anymore.: Ok. I understand, and I thank you. Crescent-shaped island, eh? I think I know something that meets that description. Next Time: We finally find Dual Blade. Actually acquiring it is another matter altogether. Blastinus fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jun 2, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 15:46
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I was never able to beat the grass puzzle until I looked it up years later. I don't even remember the Fire Dragon as the boss, just that impenetrable barrier that is those stupid plants. 
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May 19, 2015 16:40
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We are nearing the endgame, which will become obvious in the next update. That pant puzzle was horrible as a kid, and I didn't even know about the most difficult trick until I replayed it a few years later.
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May 19, 2015 18:22
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Blastinus posted:
Oh really? 
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May 19, 2015 18:50
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Ahahahahahaha, seriously, what. That's amazing that Layton has the exact same puzzle.
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May 19, 2015 19:13
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Spikey posted:Oh really?  Well, never mind then. I really need to do more research before I say stuff.
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May 19, 2015 19:30
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The plant puzzle was my bane when I played this game. Most Difficult Trick on the other hand was no sweat, sliding puzzles were my thing when I was younger 
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May 19, 2015 19:31
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Blastinus posted:
It's a puzzle that shows up in a fair number of places.
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May 19, 2015 19:52
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In fairness, if I recall correctly the worlds most difficult trick isn't a story puzzle in Layton, but one of the extra difficult bonus puzzles that unlock after you beat the game.Torrannor posted:That pant puzzle was horrible as a kid. Must have been a pretty heavy kid.
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May 19, 2015 20:00
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I was going to say, I think a lot of people who used Windows 3.1 at some point or another will have been faced with  I've been looking at the relevant parts of the Lufia 2 TAS alongside reading the LP updates -- don't judge me -- and apparently there's even more loot available if you go right instead of left over the collapsing bridge once you solve the world's most difficult trick. I don't really remember how far I got in the game when I was 14 but I apparently missed a whole heap of crap, someone must have seriously loved hiding chests in weird places.
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May 19, 2015 22:06
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Blastinus posted:
I haven't played this game in over a decade but it only took, literally, the first half second of that track to bring back memories of being stuck in that puzzle for far too long.
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May 19, 2015 22:42
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I solved the plant puzzle and the world's most difficult puzzle on my own because I didn't even know about gamefaqs back then. I did have Games Domain, but I don't recall that site being very helpful in this case. Or in general, really. This may have contributed to its eventual demise. I'm certain my solution to the plant puzzle involved dropping a bomb near the end to take out a plant I couldn't shoot in time otherwise. I consider my solution to be superior because it involved explosives.
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May 19, 2015 22:59
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Xerophyte posted:I was going to say, I think a lot of people who used Windows 3.1 at some point or another will have been faced with Well, you learn something new every day. I'd never heard of Klotskis before. Anyway, now that Lies! has run his course, I think that I might just skip the vote and go back to using old guys that I haven't seen in a while. ROBIN especially has made me wonder whether YBURN was all that bad after all.
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May 19, 2015 23:19
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Anyone who didn't do the World's Most Difficult Trick without a guide is weak.
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May 20, 2015 00:37
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I never actually do it, because I'm petrified that if I do the Dragon Egg quest some of the eggs will go in the Difficult Trick chests and like hell am I doing it twice
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May 20, 2015 01:48
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Blastinus posted:Well, you learn something new every day. I'd never heard of Klotskis before. YBURN really isn't that bad. Sure, he runs away easily, but his damage is high and there are a lot of enemies weak to fire. I remember getting good mileage out of him so long as I switched him out before bosses, but it has been a long time so I could be wrong. ROBIN is just plain worthless, though.
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May 20, 2015 01:49
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