|
Did the JP treaty ever get signed and I missed it? I remember there being an issue with alien ruins. If it hasnt that poo poo need to be signed already before the UN get to far into this.
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 17:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:16 |
|
|
wjs5 posted:Did the JP treaty ever get signed and I missed it? I remember there being an issue with alien ruins. If it hasnt that poo poo need to be signed already before the UN get to far into this. The last action was the Federation asking for a change in a clause surrounding reclamation of crews that got stranded in enemy space for whatever reason. It's not terribly onerous but I don't think Ceebees has commented on it yet. The ruins treaty is a separate matter and yeah there's some very serious problems with that because the offer on the table is to reinstate the Mars ruins provisions, which would presumably allow engineering brigades access to secured systems. That will need to be hammered out. However that's a separate line item from the JP treaty.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 18:54
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:The ruins treaty is a separate matter and yeah there's some very serious problems with that because the offer on the table is to reinstate the Mars ruins provisions, which would presumably allow engineering brigades access to secured systems. That will need to be hammered out. Perhaps agree that Xenoarchaeology teams transiting to sites in space owned by another nation have to hitch a ride in on that nation's ship? It shouldn't be too big a deal to keep a single team of engineers from getting up to too much trouble if they go from one of our ships, to the ruins, to dormitories we assign them, and then back to the ships for transit home.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 19:47
|
|
|
Well, amusingly, the contentious point on the JP treaty right now is that, the way it WAS written, it was wholly Fred's problem to deliver our crews to friendly sites, and vice-versa. The Federation isn't keen on being obligated to use its resources to deal with our problems, and we're not terribly excited to use ours to deal with theirs. Your suggestion strikes a lot of the same chords, I fear.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 20:00
|
|
|
You know I follow this pretty regularly and never put my name in for something.... hmmm void command or researcher so hard to decide.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 20:43
|
|
|
wjs5 posted:You know I follow this pretty regularly and never put my name in for something.... hmmm void command or researcher so hard to decide. The queue for researchers has a much longer wait time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
My two cents for the treaty is that for sharing, since obviously both sides will want to hold the tech and gear advantages from their ruins, we both agree that military technology and all instillation are the property of the faction that has the ruins. Xenology teams can be sent, since they just investigate cultural stuff, but no no to engineering teams. However, the treat should have a couple of provisos, one, that upon discovering a ruin, the other nation has to reveal its existence, and that any cultural, historical and other scientific knowledge about the aliens is to be released to the other side. This way we can both keep track of what alien stuff we've been poking around in (especially in the event we get hostile automatons like before), and all of humanity reaps knowledge about the aliens, while the main finders still get the benefits of the ruins.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
bgreman posted:The queue for researchers has a much longer wait time. Thank you good sir can you put me in for a void command? Preferably on a warship?
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 22:22
|
|
|
wjs5 posted:Thank you good sir can you put me in for a void command? Preferably on a warship? You'll have to start at the bottom, like other commanders, but I'll note your waiting for a void command. You've been added to the queue (there are currently no available UNIN officers). From: UNSA HQ, Department of Applied Trans-Newtonian Rift Theory, Geneva To: UNEC Re: Jump Point Theory Sirs, the most recent jump point discovery allows us to come closer to answering an important question about the link between survey locations and the jump points they may be associated with. We have established that surveying a location will provide enough data to reveal a jump point if that location is within a truncated arc between that survey location and any closer survey locations. This essentially breaks a star system up into "survey sectors," where surveying the survey location dominating the survey sector will reveal a JP within that sectors. The precise alignment of these sectors was still an open question. There were two options: either the sectors are centered on the survey locations (Fig. 1), or the sector starts at a location and extends until the next location (Fig. 2). The former was the predominant theory, but cross referencing information from Sol's gravitational survey firmly established the first model as the correct one.  Fig. 1: Sectors centered on survey location  Fig. 2: Sectors spanning between survey locations Sol survey location #6 revealed the Sol-K2 JP. The first model predicts that survey location #6 would cover all space between the inner ring of survey locations and the Sun, from bearing 270° - bearing 330°. The second model predicts a coverage of 300° - 360°/0°. The jump point is at 273°, confirming it as correct. Thanks to Innocent_Bystander for the pretty graphics. bgreman fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Nov 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 22:43
|
|
|
 United Nations Executive Whip -------------------------------- Readingaccount posted:Just say 'did you find anything'? If they refuse to answer or say no then reply with a firm 'no'. If pressed on why refer nebulously to some general unhappiness and move back to the 'no' position unless and until they take the hint and proffer up some substantial gift to make up for past slights, and if that doesn't happen just stick to 'no'. It's that easy. bgreman posted:Also, I've moved the "Boat Bay" tech (and subsequent techs down that line) out of "Missiles / Kinetic" and into "Logistics / Ground Combat." I'm listening to requests for other tech movements, but the final decision will be mine. Raw_Beef posted:Last flight of the Shrike  this makes the whole painful ordeal almost worth it.Koesj posted:e: Forgot to add my changed up UNEC letterhead, are these good Kommando? UN Executive Whip is the title. Department: Office of Chief Whip and Parliamentary Secretary to the Executive Council. Pfox posted:TO: Personnel, Dragons Teeth-class missile defense base #003 FEAN is not USSR 2. Stop treating them like some caricature communist boogeyman. Gnooble posted:
UNFRaD CeeBees, do you or Leif want to write a press release about the K2 Aliens? And what do you want to censor from the Belnar Whitepaper? I like how you guys are organising yourselves now. Proposal C as it stands is tied. Are we calling on tiebreaker powers or do you want to discuss this further. I put this out there: UN/FEAN Ruins Treaty 2036. The UN will share half the technology recovered from exploitation of ruins in our systems for half the resources in FEAN systems. I believe we should ask the Federation if they have found any ruins in New China they want to share, otherwise, we will not enter into a treaty that results in a net loss for the UN. For all our PR stunts and goodwill measures, we have yet to see a tangible payoff. Relations with the Federation are as frosty as ever and so we shall be focusing on measurable outcomes for the forseeable future.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:47
|
|
|
Gnooble posted:The current UNIN exploration plan calls for our survey of the system past the gate to be halted once a basic astro survey is done to give us time to weigh the risk of sending Cibola in-system. Otherwise exploration can wait until the next Endymion-class (UNS Hipparchus? It appears we're using mythological/classical astronomers as the name theme here) arrives. As I understand, the operation will unfold like this: TG gets to JP, we transit to the other side, after we get the basic system info the Jump ship and Cibola jump back, the DE then attmpts to communicate through the JP to see if it can be done. After that, we get everyone back to Roanoke to await further orders.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 01:22
|
|
|
Kal-L posted:As I understand, the operation will unfold like this: TG gets to JP, we transit to the other side, after we get the basic system info the Jump ship and Cibola jump back, the DE then attmpts to communicate through the JP to see if it can be done. Shouldn't the jump ship stay in system, to warp out the essential craft if things go FUBAR?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 01:39
|
|
|
El Perkele posted:Shouldn't the jump ship stay in system, to warp out the essential craft if things go FUBAR?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 02:20
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:Can't stabilize the jump point if it's not on the same side.  Actually it can.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 02:54
|
|
|
Kal-L posted:As I understand, the operation will unfold like this: TG gets to JP, we transit to the other side, after we get the basic system info the Jump ship and Cibola jump back, the DE then attmpts to communicate through the JP to see if it can be done. As others have said, the jump ship will actually be remaining in UNTJS0002 for the comm tests and to evacuate with Samar if necessary.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 03:35
|
|
|
Kommando posted:UNFRaD CeeBees, do you or Leif want to write a press release about the K2 Aliens? I don't want us to send out a press release about KILLER ALIENS at all - i do want to quietly inform the federation about them, because we'll need their help if the K2 aliens act against how they have been to this point and transit through JP1 into Sol anytime soon. If they indicate they intend to announce, then we'll have to as well, otherwise, there's not a huge reason to panic all humanity in that fashion. Basically, the truth invites the obvious question of 'why the hell didn't you tell us earlier', so my intended suite of lies is as follows:
This is, of course, subject to feedback. Ceebees fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Nov 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 03:36
|
|
|
Ceebees, I think we are better served by telling the Federation that our "shipping incident" has been investigated and the loss of Klondike and Kagayan is due to hostile ETI. We can then explain that UNIN has been working the numbers and determined that since the aliens appear to have no knowledge of the Sol Jump Point (although we are keeping a careful eye on it) we are developing a comprehensive defense plan at Callisto. (which is relatively nearby) Also please give some thought to addressing the government crisis on Cornucopia, particularly as to how it effects our friends in the Cornucopian sponsor nations. UNS Leyte is nearby to assist them in any way it can.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 04:00
|
|
|
Gnooble posted:As others have said, the jump ship will actually be remaining in UNTJS0002 for the comm tests and to evacuate with Samar if necessary. Sounds logical. Don't know why I thought otherwise, but it's good it's been clarified. As for Cornucopia, please let's not get involved beyond making sure our Endymion ships will be delivered on time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 05:20
|
|
|
UNS Leyte: 5m km from Pallas, 8th August 2035, 14:53 UTC   CMDR Tolan, CO of UNS Leyte, radios 1st Fleet HQ and informs them that he has detected two signatures on his "Jove" active sensor. The first, as expected, is Shrike, still at her last assumed location. The other is a Federation Moskva, within 10,000km of Shrike. Tolan has the Federation vessel hailed. "Attention Federation vessel, this is Commander Tolan aboard UNS Leyte. We are requesting permission to send a team to observe the wreckage and ascertain whether this is the vessel that raided our civilian shipping." A few minutes later, the Federation commander responds, "This is Kommander Mao Mei Hu, CO of Moskva. You may send a single shuttle, unarmed. Be aware that this wreck is under Federation impound while we undertake an investigation of its actions." Elsewhere, UNS Samar and UNS Edwin H. Armstrong are detached from PATHFINDER, which had been holding on the Sol side of the Sol-Roanoke jump point. The new formation, designated PILGRIM, will conduct an exploratory probe of the new jump point discovered in Roanoke. Meanwhile, PATHFINDER's remaining Turing, UNS Galileo Galilei, will merge with the PIONEER escorts, Ilocos and Surigao. In Roanoke, UNS Cibola, the closest ship to the new jump point, is ordered to approach the JP and await PILGRIM's arrival. Cibola will arrive in about eight days, while PILGRIM will require a further 18.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 01:31
|
|
|
 As the only volunteer, sloshmonger is now Deputy UNIN. As I will have only sporadic contact for the next week you might be called on to handle some stuff, although I should still be able to check the thread every couple days and have left a huge list of standing orders. Leyte will send the shuttle to inspect the ship, verify that it is Shrike, and hold position with active on until recalled or given further orders. TG PILGRIM will perform the jump, astro survey, and comm tests as previously ordered, but should wait for further orders before heading in-system and doing any other survey work in UNTJS0002.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 02:12
|
|
|
Aww, did we correct the Leyet's misspelled name?  I thought it was kind of cute. I imagined the name being crudely hand-lettered onto the side of the ship.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 06:53
|
|
|
Hmmm, the Federation's current behavior is making me doubtful as to whether they're being polite and letting the UN save face or just gathering evidence to embarrass the UN with first, they might not even have decided yet. Well, they will get the evidence they need from the ship (I suppose Tilde traded the ship to keep RawBeef), plus there's no way they didn't guess it from day 1 (what would we have thought if there were pirates before we found a jump point right after the Federation starts some island of criminals and lets their rogue officer emigrate (though maybe they didn't know about that at the time)). It depends on how they feel about the UN. So let's not sign the treaty before we have an understanding. Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 12:12
|
|
|
The Federation has known about the shrike from the start. Raw beef admitted at one point he got a visit from a federation spy while we were refitting the drat thing. Plus as everyone seems to have forgotten we didnt give him a functioning missile launcher, that he got from the Feds.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 12:40
|
|
|
Saros posted:The Federation has known about the shrike from the start. Raw beef admitted at one point he got a visit from a federation spy while we were refitting the drat thing. Perhaps if we'd given him a functioning launcher then in exchange he would have attacked a Federation freighter and stolen their stuff for us instead of turning to the highest bidder. It's not a good thing, it's evidence of how badly the Shrike project was handled.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 12:43
|
|
|
Saros posted:The Federation has known about the shrike from the start. Raw beef admitted at one point he got a visit from a federation spy while we were refitting the drat thing. Hah! Gotta love this whole setup from the start. And now the Feds get to use it as diplomatic currency against the UN (I'm sure they've got the launcher thing covered up by now). Let's just make sure we don't hand over our currency so they can ask for something else on top of it instead of what we've got on the table.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 12:47
|
|
|
Readingaccount posted:Hah! Gotta love this whole setup from the start. And now the Feds get to use it as diplomatic currency against the UN (I'm sure they've got the launcher thing covered up by now). Who cares about the launcher, he was using UN missiles. e: we're pretty safe PR wise though. Nobody is going to believe that the UN is so idiotic that it set up a pirate who proceeded to then do nothing but attack UN cargoes. e2: \/\/ no, because if we'd actually made deals with Raw Beef then he wouldn't have needed to turn to the guy making the better offer. That's where the colossal gently caress-up lies - in keeping the 'deniable' asset well at arms-length while simultaneously expecting to be able to treat it as if it's on a tight leash, then acting all surprised when it wanders away. It's the same fundamental problem as the Cornucopia project - literally no thought was given to how the UN actually extracts benefit at the end of the plan. All UN plans follow an outline of: 1. Do thing. 2. Give up all control of thing. 3. ????? 4. Coolguye makes massively revisionist and absurd claims of profit in order to spin away what a fuckup the whole thing has been. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 12:57
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Perhaps if we'd given him a functioning launcher then in exchange he would have attacked a Federation freighter and stolen their stuff for us instead of turning to the highest bidder. It's not a good thing, it's evidence of how badly the Shrike project was handled. For all the errors the Shrike project had, not arming the ship was the best decision, in light of it's actions. The Feds are into this as deep as we are. I'd say we both should agree to just bury the whole thing quietly, and not mention it ever again. EVER. I'd be more interested on getting the ship's logs for the past couple of months. Lots of time for it to go snooping around not only on the Feds, but on us too. Edit: Alchenar posted:Who cares about the launcher, he was using UN missiles. A good chance for our recon team to arm those missiles and then blow the hulk away! HINT HINT! Kal-L fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 12:59
|
|
|
Just make sure to send a video of a moustache being twirled to the Feds as their prize mysteriously blows up just as a UN ship nears it
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:06
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:e2: \/\/ no, because if we'd actually made deals with Raw Beef then he wouldn't have needed to turn to the guy making the better offer. That's where the colossal gently caress-up lies - in keeping the 'deniable' asset well at arms-length while simultaneously expecting to be able to treat it as if it's on a tight leash, then acting all surprised when it wanders away. It's the same fundamental problem as the Cornucopia project - literally no thought was given to how the UN actually extracts benefit at the end of the plan. If I remember correctly the majority of the UN at the time, which was in favor of launching a pirate, felt guilty about the minority screaming bloody murder and decided to go ahead and not equip him properly (I was happy about to be truthful), because an officer who'd emigrated during wartime and taken the offer not to return to his flag was deemed almost universally reliable (me mostly included, though I voiced the principle that no-one not wearing our flag can be trusted 100%). Counterintuitive thinking, but effective, you should obviously be in charge of more sensitive issues than civil administration. Abiding clearly by doctrines is far superior to mixing up strategies unless one can get a high efficiency out of a measured approach, and you seem capable of both. Kal-L: I'm still glad we didn't arm it too, on principle, but I don't think not mentioning this will make it go away. The Federation has prime black mail material on us. Anyway, the Council should totally take up RawBeef's 'advice' and give me a ship. Counter-intuitively I'll actually make for the sort of officer who follows orders as closely as possible, except when it's obviously not intended to be taken literally. Loyalty, discipline and flexibility, in that order. Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:10
|
|
|
Kal-L posted:A good chance for our recon team to arm those missiles and then blow the hulk away! HINT HINT! This was discussed, per BG, we have to be onboard in order to arm the missiles, and the Shrike is crawling with Federation techs and security personnel. V V edit: The current thought for our cover story involves the wreck of UNS Negros near Mars. The BFM has a history of taking old and derelict components for their own use, and given the terms of Odessa, the UN certainly can't ensure that UNS Negros has not been plundered. Gnooble fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:11
|
|
|
Too bad then. How about we start concocting some story about how the Non-Fed components of the Shrike are U.N. tech that we gave Cornucopia for our astronomical research ships, but got into storage due to us doing a better ship design?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:17
|
|
|
The ship is dated a bit early for that compared to the development of Corn's construction capability (I think?), we'll probably just have to make an agreement with them. Though maybe choosing a sacrificial lamb from our own ranks would do it, but I think just being honest is probably best for the UN, we don't have the experience or the talent to engage in subterfuge. We're getting better at it, and some of us if in the right position could possibly run it (like MagicBoots and Alchenar have good strategic coherence in their ideas) but it takes time to build up our capabilities, and it also takes a lot of game time. Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:22
|
|
|
How about we instead stop giving a drat? So the Federation will accuse us of creating the Shrike. Well? They've known it the whole time. We say "gently caress off, it wasn't us" and then proceed to ignore the whole issue. We don't have to explain anything, we don't need to, any the whole sentiment of us needing to come up with explanations just makes us the submissive partner in the whole relationship. We are a world superpower and we should act like one – with confidence and a bit of bravado. I urge the UN to stop being so embarrassingly afraid of the Federation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:23
|
|
|
Hey, I'm confident for inserting marines on Cornucopia with bravado and replacing it with a clean leadership that abides by international law, but great point, we could just ignore the public's reaction on piracy. Might be more costly than a well-tailored response, but that could easily go wrong.
Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:27
|
|
|
Just for the record, the explanation would be for our member nations. Bgreman has hinted that sometimes the big partners like the U.S. don't like when we gently caress up things. Something like "We had a secret accord with Cornucopia to produce ships before the Endymion class, but only got so far as shipping them some components. Then the dread pirate Raw_Beef used them for his ship. Good thing he's dead!" The Feds can't touch us on this. They're the ones who gave the Shrike weapon launching capabilities, and there's no higher power they can appeal to punish us for creating the Shrike. Their only option would be to force a world conflict, but until Mars and New China have the industrial and population strenght to surpass their Earth holdings, they won't risk it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:36
|
|
|
Well the shrike saga is pretty much over, I think we should let the matter rest unless the Feds try make a big deal about it which seems unlikely given their own involvement. Now the real question is what exactly to tell them about the K2 aliens. I think we should just state we spotted the wrecks of our ships when we jumped back in, recovered some limited sensor data indicating far superior tech and are now investigating further. No public release for this info although the new Belnar data should be released with its hints at further ruins behind our JP's to give us leverage in any upcoming ruins negotiation. I guess what im saying is that its time for UNFRAD to get on the horn to the Feds (also mention the possible trade of linelayer/jump tender capabilities.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:51
|
|
|
Saros posted:Well the shrike saga is pretty much over, I think we should let the matter rest unless the Feds try make a big deal about it which seems unlikely given their own involvement. I'm fine with "This system you sold us is full of aliens!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:52
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:I'm fine with "This system you sold us is full of aliens!" For once, we agree. It would be interesting to see the Fed response to this. I'm thinking they had suspicions, for them to be so eager to leave that JP to us. But I recommend we wait until we get some response from our diplomat team/comm beacon. If they keep being hostile, we should get a mutual defense pact with the Federation. If they're friendly to us, we can tell them about how much we need their help to defend freedom and goodness from the Federation of Evil 
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 13:58
|
|
|
markus_cz posted:How about we instead stop giving a drat? So the Federation will accuse us of creating the Shrike. Well? They've known it the whole time. We say "gently caress off, it wasn't us" and then proceed to ignore the whole issue. We don't have to explain anything, we don't need to, any the whole sentiment of us needing to come up with explanations just makes us the submissive partner in the whole relationship. We are a world superpower and we should act like one – with confidence and a bit of bravado. I urge the UN to stop being so embarrassingly afraid of the Federation. Hear hear! ---------  I move a motion to have a moratorium of one year placed upon any ruins treaty planning. We will ratify the JP Treaty and revisit the Ruins treaty next year. Negative Entropy fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 14:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:16 |
|
|
Kommando posted:
 Remain opposed to any ruins treaty, and certainly not before it becomes clear whether the Federation even has access to any ruins.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 14:29
|
|