|
Ken Doll blew up his game by talking to the Dark Forces when Will gave him important intel. Sad really, he ultimately is just a muscled moron wrapped with pretty paper. Has there ever been a season with this many miscalculated idol plays? Adam and David's idols have both been flushed for gently caress-all of reasons and never needed to be. That could become a back breaker. Maybe bad idol play is contagious and Jay will play his idol on the scene transition fruit bat? All bets are off at this point, we've seen it all really.
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 07:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 02:06 |
|
|
Spatula City posted:also I don't know who's winning, other than that Ken's chances are well and truly dead. I guess it could be Adam? Or David? Or, gosh, Hannah. This is a messy season, and nobody will ever hold it up as a model of great play, but the last three episodes have been pretty neat. Good. We don't always need a winner that's edited to have done no wrong. Though I think Jay has better chances than Hannah. If Adam doesn't get to the finals, I think they set the groundwork for showing why he would vote for Jay.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 07:55
|
|
|
Robnoxious posted:Ken Doll blew up his game by talking to the Dark Forces when Will gave him important intel. Sad really, he ultimately is just a muscled moron wrapped with pretty paper. Adam's idol play was the correct move based on the information he had at the time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 12:15
|
|
|
Brock Samson posted:Wow it's been a few fun tribal's huh. Adam is kind of a stand-up guy even if he's not the best with the idol luck. I like Adam. His sin is overplaying which is a huge percentage of players now anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 13:10
|
|
|
Yeah, it was good for Adam to play that because they had very little reason to believe that Will was going to flip at that point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 14:10
|
|
|
If I was in Adam's position this tribal I'd have done the exact same thing. If I was in Adam's position last tribal I'd have shut the gently caress up. In summary, I see Adam as that kid who was always just kind of around you and your friends in elementary school. You don't really want him there, but you'd miss him if he was gone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 14:10
|
|
|
The best part of that is that since Will waffled so much and scared Adam into using his idol that now he won't get credit for his big move because people will just remember Adam's idol play as "saving" Hannah. Adam's game continues to be a really weird keystone cops thing while Will continues to have nothing to show for his indecisiveness. I like Adam fine. Guy's playing hard and seems like a nice enough fella. That "friend you don't choose to hang with but you'd miss him if he was gone" thing works. He's just always playing like 1 level harder than he has to be at any given moment. The fact that playing the idol made sense but was unnecessary fits that really well. I'm amused by the fate of Adam's game. Its a shame Zeke couldn't hold back a little. To his credit he seemed to recognize he got too overzealous there (and I'd argue high on his power/the game). If he had been able to slow play things a bit he probably could have a had a real shot at winning this game. He was dead after last week. If it hadn't been Will this week it would have been someone next week or the week after. The thing that still makes me sad about this season is that Brett and Sunday seem like mortal locks for F4.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 15:37
|
|
|
TBH they hosed up and should have just targeted David at that point, if they really thought an idol would be played on Ken.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
And yeah, Brett and Sunday are going to make their way in. Will is going to burn out fast if he tries to take control too forcefully, and with David and Jay sticking around as obvious targets.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
I think Jay is probably going to slip through too. I don't like him so I don't love that but at least he's playing hard. I don't know. Jay could get targeted for being an idol threat but the winners have seemed pretty widespread and Jay doesn't seem like he has a ton of friends. But someone could say he has Will, Michelle, Taylor, and Sunday so he's too big a threat to let go. David may have bungled his game enough that he can slip through. The need to get him out seemed driven by Chris/Zeke. He's not ACTUALLY that big a threat. Ken seems like a much bigger threat to win unless a lot of players are secretly harboring hate for him like Will apparently was (but that mostly came off to me as every teenager ever rebelling against a grown up). Despite his dumb play this week I assume everyone who liked him still likes him. I don't know. Its still murky enough that I don't know how things will play and who will be seen as threats. But its probably going to be a competition to see who beats Brett and Sunday at Final Tribal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 15:54
|
|
|
I can see Jay going after final 5 when Idols don't help anymore. The moment he is vulnerable, he's out of there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 16:17
|
|
|
Oh, Ken... 3rd great episode in a row with people making hilariously bad moves. Adam's move was correct though. People too often collate the quality of a move with the outcome; there's so much chance involved, and strategies are best evaluated by how they like up with all the possible outcomes someone should be inferring given the information they have.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
At the end of the day, he does get points for using the idol on the actual vote target. Even if they all realize it didn't matter, he still made a good call and didn't fail the way David did the week before. Edit: Aw, I just read about Adam's mom. 
Max fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Dec 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 16:33
|
|
|
I love that we're getting more long endurance challenges this season.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 16:44
|
|
|
Max posted:At the end of the day, he does get points for using the idol on the actual vote target. Even if they all realize it didn't matter, he still made a good call and didn't fail the way David did the week before. People on reddit are saying that his mom died before he could get back to see her, but I haven't seen any actual sources so it could be wrong
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 16:49
|
|
|
blue squares posted:People on reddit are saying that his mom died before he could get back to see her, but I haven't seen any actual sources so it could be wrong He's a fairly active user on the Survivor sub. I didn't catch that detail, but if it wasn't true he'd be debunking it. He hasn't exactly been quiet about the choice to play in spite of her illness. For what it's worth, he must have known of the possibility going in, so I'd expect they took as much time together to make peace and say goodbye before he left as they could. It may even have been better that way, if so; she wouldn't have been in the final spiral downward (so, strong enough to be lucid and encouraging), and it would have been private moments just for the two of them that all the people surrounding her at the final hours wouldn't have had. Also, I have no idea how Ken could possibly win after that little display.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
I'm sure it's probably true. Everything Adam's brother told him last night is basically what they do for people when the writing is on the wall.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 17:20
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Also, I have no idea how Ken could possibly win after that little display. I think anyone has a good chance of winning if they get to the end with Sunday and Bret.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 17:22
|
|
|
I spent like ten minutes after the show just trying to figure out what possible logic Ken could've been following for his "test" and I'm still completely baffled.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
That episode made me cry.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:I think anyone has a good chance of winning if they get to the end with Sunday and Bret. I disagree. Bret wins that one. Poque posted:That episode made me cry. Me too. It might have just been from watching it in bed completely exhausted, but that was an exceptional family episode.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
Adam's mom died on May 15th. I think the last day of filming was May 13th.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
Oh god. He would have just missed her 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
Generic American posted:I spent like ten minutes after the show just trying to figure out what possible logic Ken could've been following for his "test" and I'm still completely baffled. Imagine that you don't really understand the game of Survivor at all. Now imagine that someone on the opposing team wants to switch to your team. How do you know if he is serious? Well, you could just be bold and go over to the opposing team and ask them!
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 18:18
|
|
|
MrBuddyLee posted:Adam's mom died on May 15th. I think the last day of filming was May 13th. Propaganda Machine posted:Oh god. He would have just missed her Well, poo poo. Day ruined.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 18:50
|
|
|
Sith Happens posted:Well, poo poo. Day ruined. Honestly, they would have had the best possible send off. Watching someone you love die especially right at the end, where they become incomprehensible, is unbelievably awful. They would have said goodbye when she was lucid, knowing that he was going off to fulfill a dream of his.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 19:05
|
|
|
Generic American posted:I spent like ten minutes after the show just trying to figure out what possible logic Ken could've been following for his "test" and I'm still completely baffled. Interestingly, the move makes some sense if you assume rational actors (not that you can in Survivor.) It essentially forces Will to commit to the flip because his trust with Zeke's group is shot regardless, so he may as well make the move that advantages him the most. Not that I believe Ken considered this. I think he couldn't understand why Zeke's group would target him and so thought Will was lying to build trust (I'm saving you by switching). Ken doesn't believe Will, tattles, and either learns Will is trustworthy or hurts Will's game in revenge if it was a lie. Also, as long as Will switches Ken's mouth doesn't effect Will's game at all. After the vote his previous alliance will know he betrayed any way. The disadvantages to knowing a move are 1) scrambling, and since Will was the swing and the two sides were so entrenched that wasn't a worry and 2) idols, and I think Will was reasonably confident Zeke neither has an idol nor will Jay play one on him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
Brock Samson posted:Wow it's been a few fun tribal's huh. Adam is kind of a stand-up guy even if he's not the best with the idol luck. He's as self-interested as anyone out there but in denial about it and a tryhard about being a good guy Also he was pathetic in the reward challenge and it was hilarious
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
blue squares posted:Another thing: for all the talk of how Zeke was playing such a great game, I sure don't see it. Nobody who is playing a great game has two people flip on you in back to back episodes. The way Zeke spoke to Chris, talking about "I have my people," showed how arrogant he was and it's clear that other people noticed it and didn't like it. He's like Russel Hantz: good in a lot of ways, but terrible at managing the social game that makes people like you and want to work with you. Your Russell comparison makes no sense because he had fiercely loyal allies all 3 times he played, also Zeke was plenty well liked and therefore seen as a huge threat to win which is why he was heavily targeted
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
Parity warning posted:Your Russell comparison makes no sense because he had fiercely loyal allies all 3 times he played, also Zeke was plenty well liked and therefore seen as a huge threat to win which is why he was heavily targeted You're right. I wrote that poorly. I meant that his social game is poor because he makes people feel like they are subordinate to him rather than partners, which makes them flip because he is seen as too much of a threat. So not like Russell other than that it is a type of social game failing, albeit a very different one
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:44
|
|
|
Wait hold up, was Will  drinking underage on the reward?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
garthoneeye posted:Interestingly, the move makes some sense if you assume rational actors (not that you can in Survivor.) It essentially forces Will to commit to the flip because his trust with Zeke's group is shot regardless, so he may as well make the move that advantages him the most. You're right that the end effect of Ken's weird little play is that Will is basically screwed if he doesn't flip. If anything, Will mostly had to worry about being Christie'd out by being such an obvious swing vote that everyone converges to knock him out before he can screw them over. There just has to be some other way of forcing Will's hand without going to him and doing a weird, public loyalty test. He drew the attention squarely towards himself and gave the kingmaker a really obvious target to shoot for, and 3 people (David, Bret, Sunday) more than willing to let Will get distracted by him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:51
|
|
|
Parity warning posted:He's as self-interested as anyone out there but in denial about it and a tryhard about being a good guy He has ideas about how to endear others to him, but no idea how to execute them. It's like he heard someone on Rob Has a Podcast say "use an in-game advantage to gain trust" and used it on the one guy that hates him most. Then later he gave the advantage away for no reason!
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:53
|
|
|
I think it says something that even Hannah visibly feels like Adam is constantly being overly neurotic. vv Swear to god Michaela had better be back or I will be super upset. Celery Jello fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Dec 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
blue squares posted:You're right. I wrote that poorly. I meant that his social game is poor because he makes people feel like they are subordinate to him rather than partners, which makes them flip because he is seen as too much of a threat. So not like Russell other than that it is a type of social game failing, albeit a very different one Ah yea tru dat. Also why Michaela bit it basically, people give Jay poo poo for that but he obviously didn't like the idea of someone else being in control of his game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 21:57
|
|
|
Dugong posted:Wait hold up, was Will  Will's mom and Jay have soft drink bottles. Will does not.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
I hope this leads to a new precedent that underage contestants can drink if a parent or legal guardian is present to allow it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 22:26
|
|
|
Hah, I just realized that Ken did the exact thing to Will that he got mad at Jessica for doing to him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
If Will knocked back a few, maybe his doofy confessionals were drunk. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 02:06 |
|
|
Parity warning posted:Ah yea tru dat. Also why Michaela bit it basically, people give Jay poo poo for that but he obviously didn't like the idea of someone else being in control of his game. I think Jay was hosed either way with Michaela. Even though I agreed with her about Figgy and Taylor and I'm glad I got to see her hilariously express her feelings about the two of them, she was just way too open and public with her dislike and derision of them. the millenials really had no chance at being a cohesive tribe at all after merge Murmur Twin posted:Hah, I just realized that Ken did the exact thing to Will that he got mad at Jessica for doing to him. I thought it was weird how vehemently he wanted to be picked as one of Jay's extras on the family reward. Like I understand that everybody is desperately missing their loved ones back home and is starved for news and affection, but I figured Adam's whole situation would somewhat temper other players' jockeying for the spots.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2016 22:53
|
|
