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blue squares posted:Please stop calling people "friend." It is incredibly obnoxious and condescending. Who you calling friend, pal?
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Aug 9, 2015 19:20
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Nintendo Kid, why are you trying so hard to defend a couple of people who did something stupid? Is it because you honestly don't believe it was stupid, or merely because you think you can score points against Bernie supports by defending it?
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Aug 9, 2015 19:20
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I'm really shocked that this many people think interrupting a politician is a bad thing. I know your team is the best, but come on.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:21
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ComradeCosmobot posted:My thought is that this is a good first step, but I'm not sure it's going to be sufficient. He needs to have a stump speech directly addressing race issues in an appropriate way if he wants them to really take him seriously (i.e. one without his normal twisting of them into economic issues). Until he does that and specifically addresses African Americans on issues that directly affect them on a daily basis, offering concrete solutions instead of rising-tide platitudes, I don't think people will think he'll have done enough. But I think hiring a BLM person onto his team will definitely stand a chance of pushing him that way, so he may still be able to pull it off. He hired her as his National Press Secretary. She's also drafting a criminal reform justice package for him http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/bernie-sanders-campaign-adds-young-black-woman-as-new-public#.fqBZgkwR
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Aug 9, 2015 19:21
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theblackw0lf posted:He hired her as his National Press Secretary. She's also drafting a criminal reform justice package for him And it was only yesterday that his supporters declared it impossible and wrong for Sanders to do those things.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:23
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GlyphGryph posted:Nintendo Kid, why are you trying so hard to defend a couple of people who did something stupid? Is it because you honestly don't believe it was stupid, or merely because you think you can score points against Bernie supports by defending it? They didn't do something stupid, they stood up for their message. Sorry that this upsets you, but frankly Bernie seems to have been way less annoyed then his so called supporters are. He doesn't need you people to white knight him against those mean old interrupters!
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Aug 9, 2015 19:25
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Bernie Sanders has to be bad at everything so that I may feel good about Hillary Clinton winning the primary
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Aug 9, 2015 19:28
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Nintendo Kid posted:They didn't do something stupid, they stood up for their message. Sorry that this upsets you, but frankly Bernie seems to have been way less annoyed then his so called supporters are. He doesn't need you people to white knight him against those mean old interrupters! The GOP candidates literally want to cut all welfare programs so everyone except the rich die in the streets - isn't it more important for BLM to target *them* instead of Bernie Sanders?
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Aug 9, 2015 19:30
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Lessail posted:Bernie Sanders has to be bad at everything so that I may feel good about Hillary Clinton winning the primary These arguments were less lame when he supporters just said he only cared about economics.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:31
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EugeneJ posted:The GOP candidates literally want to cut all welfare programs so everyone except the rich die in the streets - isn't it more important for BLM to target *them* instead of Bernie Sanders? No, because people already expect the Republicans to be poo poo.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:31
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EugeneJ posted:The GOP candidates literally want to cut all welfare programs so everyone except the rich die in the streets - isn't it more important for BLM to target *them* instead of Bernie Sanders? Come on dude, they're Black Lives Matters not Black Lives Marytered.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:32
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Trabisnikof posted:These arguments were less lame when he supporters just said he only cared about economics. Sorry that nothing Bernie does is ever good enough for you 
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Aug 9, 2015 19:36
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Huh? No, I was probably not clear. What I was trying to say is that a purely Marxist/economic analysis of civil rights (like that to which Bernie reportedly subscribes) is very probably a flawed one, given that economics cannot easily explain the persistent racist bias we see in policing, housing, etc. "Inextricably linked" seems to me to mean something different than "Solely caused by and entirely reducible to"
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Aug 9, 2015 19:38
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Nintendo Kid posted:No, because people already expect the Republicans to be poo poo. So then by attacking Bernie and not Hillary, what are they trying to gain? Are they trying to make Bernie look bad? Are they trying to gain influence within his campaign to actually solve the problems of systemic racism? If it's the latter - how about, you know, scheduling a meeting with him?
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Aug 9, 2015 19:46
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EugeneJ posted:So then by attacking Bernie and not Hillary, what are they trying to gain? Are they trying to make Bernie look bad? Are they trying to gain influence within his campaign to actually solve the problems of systemic racism? Where are they going to attack Hillary? Aside from the fact that in the majority, minorities trust Hillary Clinton a whole lot more than any of the white men who oppose her in the primary. Since Bernie is running not to win, but to make sure messages can be pushed in debates, it makes perfect sense to piggyback on him though for that, since he's already supposed to be a message pusher opportunity. Because just scheduling a meeting is dumb.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:50
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EugeneJ posted:So then by attacking Bernie and not Hillary, what are they trying to gain? Are they trying to make Bernie look bad? Are they trying to gain influence within his campaign to actually solve the problems of systemic racism? (They'd never get past Hillary's secret service detail)
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Aug 9, 2015 19:52
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Nintendo Kid posted:Because just scheduling a meeting is dumb. Is it more dumb than do nothing substantive except generate a whole lot of negative press about the movement?
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Aug 9, 2015 19:54
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Meg From Family Guy posted:Is it more dumb than do nothing substantive except generate a whole lot of negative press about the movement? But enough about the Bernie Sanders campaign, I thought you wanted to talk about black lives matter? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 9, 2015 19:57
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EugeneJ posted:So then by attacking Bernie and not Hillary, what are they trying to gain? Mecca-Benghazi posted:Considering he hired Symone Sanders I think there's your answer.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:57
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Meg From Family Guy posted:Is it more dumb than do nothing substantive except generate a whole lot of negative press about the movement? Scheduling a meeting wouldn't really do anything substantive about it, either, because who really gives a poo poo about the exact policy planks that Bernie endorses? They clearly hosed up in terms of the actual publicity results but it makes sense what they were trying to do in terms of trying to push their message, and pull the Democratic Party further in their direction. Which is what they're trying to do.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:57
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I shouldn't be surprised that there are people who think someone is a hero for running a campaign that's all about getting more attention for himself and nothing more.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:58
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Trabisnikof posted:I shouldn't be surprised that there are people who think someone is a hero for running a campaign that's all about getting more attention for himself and nothing more. drat and here I thought you wanted to come off as an above it all poster. Do not besmirch Trump like that!
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Aug 9, 2015 20:01
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Trabisnikof posted:I think there's your answer. He hired her before that protest last night though, unless he made that kind of decision and got all the logistics out of the way in the hour or so between speeches. Personally I think the netroots protest was completely appropriate, but the social security event one wasn't.
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Aug 9, 2015 20:01
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Trabisnikof posted:I think there's your answer. edit: what that guy said
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Aug 9, 2015 20:03
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Anecdote time. And it's the very best kind because it involves Trump, Rand, a young entrepreneur and the Republican id. I was at a hotel in San Marcos, TX during the debate and I went for a walk after the debate. I met this young man, early twenties, who said he had come out for a smoke after the debate. He asked if I watched it and I said yes, because I wanted to see if Trump would implode. He told me he was starting his own business and he had never been very interested in politics but he was now because he had concerns about how it might affect his new business. I avoid conversations on politics with people I don't know but this guy was eager for one so I obliged. He asked what I thought, I took him to mean what I thought about the debate and I said it was interesting. He then asked what I thought about Trump and I said he was a gas bag. He asked what that meant which made me pause because I couldn't figure out if he truly had never heard the term or he was just offended that I used it to describe Trump so I proceeded by saying that Trump was a narcissist and a blow hard which might make him a good business man but he didn't have the skill set to be President. He said that he liked Trump and his second choice was Rand Paul but he liked Trump the most. He said that he didn't know most of the people on the stage and he was unaware of the "kiddie debate" earlier and didn't know any of those people; I got the impression he didn't even know who Rick Perry was. I told him the names of all the people at both debates and gave him their last jobs; Perry, Governor, Christie, Governor, etc. The only ones he actually knew were Trump, Rand, Bush and that black doctor. I asked him why he liked Trump. He said that his greatest fear was of a rise in interest rates that would lead to a wrecked economy, he said that the U.S. was broken and that Trump was the person who could fix it, he said that Trump was a businessman and since the U.S. Government is the biggest business in the world that Trump was the right guy to run it. That's it, that was his reasoning in a nutshell. Cant' argue with that kind of reasoning, so I didn't. That's all folks. radical meme fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 20:19
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radical meme posted:He said that his greatest fear was of a rise in interest rates that would lead to a wrecked economy Not at all surprised he's a Paulite. Should have tried to sell him a Ron Paul survival kit. 
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Aug 9, 2015 20:43
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Trabisnikof posted:Come on dude, they're Black Lives Matters not Black Lives Marytered. And this is why they'll also never upstage a Hillary rally and risk getting beat up by a SS goon
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Aug 9, 2015 20:54
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Joementum posted:Not at all surprised he's a Paulite. Should have tried to sell him a Ron Paul survival kit. "When the New Money is Imposed..."
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Aug 9, 2015 20:55
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radical meme posted:Trump was the person who could fix it, he said that Trump was a businessman and since the U.S. Government is the biggest business in the world that Trump was the right guy to run it. That's it, that was his reasoning in a nutshell. Cant' argue with that kind of reasoning, so I didn't. That's all folks. Is it true that you can't argue with that reasoning though necessarily? I mean, that is a very common talking point, and I do understand why people buy into it, but a brief examination of "the country should be run like a business" should show that its logic is near non-existent. For example, if you were to truly run a nation like a business, why would basic rights of citizens like voting or freedom of expression continue to exist? It's frustrating that people don't take the time to think out what that phrase truly implies.
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Aug 9, 2015 21:33
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Nichael posted:For example, if you were to truly run a nation like a business, why would basic rights of citizens like voting or freedom of expression continue to exist? A while back I had someone on another forum say 'as a small business owner, it's in my interest to vote for McCain because I don't believe Obama's policies will help me'. So basically a lot of people in that position are committed to performing their own colonoscopies.
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Aug 9, 2015 22:02
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Bernie Sanders is probably the biggest Ally of the BLM movement so it seems pretty counter productive to attack him. Wasn't he one of only two senators to attend MLK's march on Washington?
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Aug 9, 2015 22:12
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FilthyImp posted:A while back I had someone on another forum say 'as a small business owner, it's in my interest to vote for McCain because I don't believe Obama's policies will help me'. So basically a lot of people in that position are committed to performing their own colonoscopies. If they were in the highest tax bracket they were likely correct tbh
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Aug 9, 2015 22:14
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Nichael posted:Is it true that you can't argue with that reasoning though necessarily? I mean, that is a very common talking point, and I do understand why people buy into it, but a brief examination of "the country should be run like a business" should show that its logic is near non-existent. For example, if you were to truly run a nation like a business, why would basic rights of citizens like voting or freedom of expression continue to exist? It's frustrating that people don't take the time to think out what that phrase truly implies. You can't argue with it because it is literally so stupid that a person who believes it is probably not someone who is going to understand/listen to your reasoned arguments.
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Aug 9, 2015 22:19
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Knifegrab posted:Bernie Sanders is probably the biggest Ally of the BLM movement so it seems pretty counter productive to attack him. Wasn't he one of only two senators to attend MLK's march on Washington? Was he there? I hadn't heard that!
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Aug 9, 2015 22:23
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Pramila Jayapal on the Seattle disruption:quote:Many people have been emailing and asking me for how I am thinking about what happened yesterday at the event on social security and medicare, when some protestors identifying as Black Lives Matter got up on stage to challenge Bernie Sanders on race and racism, and ended up shutting down the event so Bernie could not speak. I'm struggling but in the spirit of community, here's what comes to mind. First, i want to give a huge shout out to the amazing leaders who worked for months and months to organize the event: Robby Stern and PSARA, Social Security Works Washington, Washington CAN, Burke Stansbury, and so many more. This was a huge event to put together, and their determination is what ultimately got Senator Bernie Sanders to Seattle in the first place. The rally was also packed--maybe around 5,000 people--and people stood in the hot sun for a couple of hours, engaging actively and cheering on the incredibly wide range of speakers the coalition had put together. I was proud to be the speaker just before Bernie was supposed to speak. Watching what unfolded made me heartbroken. I have so many somewhat jumbled thoughts--here are just a few.
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Aug 9, 2015 22:26
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Stultus Maximus posted:Was he there? I hadn't heard that!
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Aug 9, 2015 22:40
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D_I posted:That was the reddest of red meat bait, and you took it. i don't think that post was in earnest
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Aug 9, 2015 22:43
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Nichael posted:Is it true that you can't argue with that reasoning though necessarily? I mean, that is a very common talking point, and I do understand why people buy into it, but a brief examination of "the country should be run like a business" should show that its logic is near non-existent. For example, if you were to truly run a nation like a business, why would basic rights of citizens like voting or freedom of expression continue to exist? It's frustrating that people don't take the time to think out what that phrase truly implies. The real irony is that the magic of "the market" and whatever pragmatism and meritocracy etc. it is supposed to bring doesn't actually apply to the internal structure of firms, large ones of which inevitably have a complex system of bureaucracy just like....the government! Even businesses aren't run like businesses in the libertarian sense.
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Aug 9, 2015 22:44
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eSports Chaebol posted:The real irony is that the magic of "the market" and whatever pragmatism and meritocracy etc. it is supposed to bring doesn't actually apply to the internal structure of firms, large ones of which inevitably have a complex system of bureaucracy just like....the government! Even businesses aren't run like businesses in the libertarian sense. Businesses could be far more internally competitive if the evil government gave up their monopoly on the violence market!
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Aug 9, 2015 22:47
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Ted Cruz's big new idea: The Articles of Confederation.quote:PELHAM, Ala. — Sen. Ted Cruz said Sunday that doing everything possible to thwart the Iran deal should include states exploring imposing their own sanctions. He does helpfully point out that this could be difficult, since it's been illegal since 1788.
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Aug 9, 2015 22:48
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