|
Just skimming the entry, will view the video later: so Bigby's father is the north wind? I'm assuming that's where the huffing and puffing comes from?
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 05:09 |
|
|
Yes and yes. It's more of a deal in the comics, where The North Wind actually shows up.HeadGrenade posted:By the way, Bacter, those two unnoticed clues: are those still out there? Yup! HeadGrenade posted:But choosing Tweedle means you gave up Woody, who you have worked so hard for, for absolutely nothing. That DOES make more sense. I think Telltale does a really good job with games, but I DO think they sometimes really suffer on subsequent playthroughs. The first time you play a game, it's like "oh man, I'm making all these tough choices and who knows WHAT effects what!" Then you play through again and it's like, oh, I... I guess everything had to happen that way. TWAU is really good for that, though. Like, when I do the Starewolf playthroughs, I'll be making totally opposite choices to the main game, and you'll see that even in this first chapter, there are some major differences. Then there's the new Game of Thrones by Telltale. I'll put my biggest two beefs with it in spoilers. Note that this IS a big spoiler, so don't read if you're planning on playing it. #1, and the worse by far for me (but still totally redeemable in future episodes!), was that there is a whole huge branching decision tree when you're playing as Ethan, the new lord. You choose to go Diplomatic or Military, and you've got two advisers that hate each other, each urging one path. There are multiple sources around you telling you to go one way or the other, and they really captured the pressured, hectic feel of a young lord coming into power, especially since you're in a rough situation - your brother killed some people that belonged to your new leige lord's vassal, the vassal has always hated you and is using this opportunity to push for taking over your land, and the psychopathic leige lord's son is marching your way to sort things out. So you have all this anxiety - do I be super strict and try to protect my people that way? Go gentle and try diplomacy? Food is running low and to survive we need to make sure we keep our strategic resource. Whatever you choose, one of your advisers ends up questioning your abilities, and it's this really thick great tension. Then, no matter what you picked, the psychopath shows up and sticks a knife in your throat. You can be militaristic and he sneers at your army, you can be diplomatic and let him in, and he's got no interest in diplomacy. Hooray. NOW: this is totally fixable! Just have the tone you set determine the future of the house, and hey presto those decisions meant something. But as it stands, it was just 45 minutes of fraught decisions, followed by an OK NOW THE STORY IS THIS. #2 is much smaller, but it really stuck out to me, because the writing and characterization is usually so good. There's a part where your character is the handmaiden of Joffrey's future wife. Cersci has got concerns about your loyalty, because you're from a northern house, so your lady pulls you aside and says, in no uncertain terms, VERY CLEARLY, hey just go in there and tell her whatever she wants to hear. It'll be easier for everybody. She literally says "you may think one thing, but say another". Fine. Good plan. Then Cersci asks you who you'd pick if it came down to her son, the king, and your lady. AND YOUR LADY GETS UNEASY/MAD IF YOU SAY JOFFREY. LADY, THIS IS WHAT YOU TOLD ME TO DO. Bah. [/rant] Bacter fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jan 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 17:02
|
|
|
Oh man. I felt so bad for Bufkin.  edit: Bacter posted:
Most games that try a choice system have this problem. Mass Effect for instance suffers badly on playthroughs after the first because you realize that all you're changing is a few lines of dialogue most of the time. Saved an entire race? That will briefly be mentioned next game. We might even add a few seconds to a cutscene! Harabeck fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jan 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 17:31
|
|
|
Bacter posted:So here's the Jerkrun. As I said, it was tough to record, especially the bit with Toad. I think the pun was my way of getting a little humor out of things. Seriously, you guys, who WANTS to play this way? It's better to mix and match the nice and mean approaches based on the situation. Going all one or the other makes for a boring Bigby.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 22:32
|
|
|
Bacter posted:That DOES make more sense. I think Telltale does a really good job with games, but I DO think they sometimes really suffer on subsequent playthroughs. The first time you play a game, it's like "oh man, I'm making all these tough choices and who knows WHAT effects what!" Then you play through again and it's like, oh, I... I guess everything had to happen that way. It's always been an annoying thing about most adventure games; Telltale is better because their choices do matter, while most games they don't. And compared to some of the earlier games of theirs that I've played, this is miles above those as well, and in general, I think they've done a good job. Proof will be in later episodes, though. Harabeck posted:Most games that try a choice system have this problem. Mass Effect for instance suffers badly on playthroughs after the first because you realize that all you're changing is a few lines of dialogue most of the time. Saved an entire race? That will briefly be mentioned next game. We might even add a few seconds to a cutscene! Yeah, but there's two things that make Mass Effect (2, lets say, since they improved it a lot, and I never played 3) different than TWAU and Telltale games: first, Mass Effect is about more than just choices. There's the combat and the exploration to fall back on, and to also spend time building. TWAU is all story, front to back, cover to cover, and while I'm sure there's some technical aspects that were challenging to make, that store is not a feature. It is the whole game. Second, I always thought Mass Effect did more with the choices than just change the world; it also gave you conversation powers where your reputation would make otherwise unbelievable, more focused on immediate, unrelated circumstances. It's one thing to threaten your own crew, it's another to threaten them after they've seen you shoot an unarmed CEO in the face in a public square because he argued with you. Also also, this is my vote for the thread's best/worst pun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 02:53
|
|
|
Bacter, when you do the silent Bigby run, will you play through the opposite of the choices we make, so we'll see what happens if we go to the Prince's first?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 03:55
|
|
|
Yes. It's done and getting edited together now. The Starewolf run will have every major choice be the opposite of the main run. I'm also happy to report that, contrary to my expectations, it never got less funny for me!
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
Excellent! I am most looking forward to the Starewolf run. Silent Bigby who just conveys his annoyance through brooding stares strikes me as funny.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 05:26
|
|
|
Gonna take a stab at things which might be important in that preview of the next episode. First, Woody enters with new bruises on the cheek and near his temple. Over the course of the day of this episode, those old bruises never changed, and now they're gone. So, we're maybe a few days in the future? The other is the pimp: while he has a lot of tattoos that seem very standard, if you look on the left side of his neck (from our perspective), you'll notice he has a flaming piece of pie, possibly pumpkin. That seems . . . unique. People who know fables better than me, does that give you any ideas?Bacter posted:Yes. It's done and getting edited together now. The Starewolf run will have every major choice be the opposite of the main run. So excited for this. "Look, there isn't any loving --"  "What is it, Bigby?" "Little Timmy fell down the well?"
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 06:08
|
|
|
HeadGrenade posted:you'll notice he has a flaming piece of pie, possibly pumpkin. That seems . . . unique. People who know fables better than me, does that give you any ideas? Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 06:51
|
|
|
HeadGrenade posted:flaming piece of pie Little Jack Horner sat in his corner, eating his Christmas pie. Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie. Georgie Porgie Pudding and Pie kissed the girls and made them cry. Can't think of anything else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 07:07
|
|
|
The Starerun will give a clue.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 07:11
|
|
|
Who's the chump with that old fashioned cap waiting in line with Gren? He and the red haired man are the only ones without a obvious purpose being shown so far.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 09:58
|
|
|
 Ok, a couple notes. I break Starewolf twice during this run. Both for excellent reasons Once in Lawerence's apartment to keep him alive - the preferred method is to half-lie about faith, then leap out before he can do anything foolish with the gun. Once in Toad's place, since I'm not about to fail the detective section and slap Toad around again. I might include the "..." options for the former, the latter definitely not. Also, if there's a section where "..." isn't an option, I always choose the nice option - Starewolf is a nice sort, just kind of quiet. Bacter fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jan 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 11:29
|
|
|
I guess Starewolf shows one thing pretty well, most of the choices do seem to be illusory. That being said, Lawrence being alive in this run definitely comes as a surprise. Also, who the hell is Georgie? Apart from "her pimp", I mean. No fairy tales spring to mind. A lot of these cases "silence" seems to mean "snarl", too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 12:15
|
|
|
What happens if Lawrence takes the shot?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:I guess Starewolf shows one thing pretty well, most of the choices do seem to be illusory. That being said, Lawrence being alive in this run definitely comes as a surprise. Also, who the hell is Georgie? Apart from "her pimp", I mean. No fairy tales spring to mind. Only thing that comes to mind in regards to the name Georgie is the children's rhyme; 'Georgie Porgie, Pudding and pie, Kissed the girls and made them cry. When the boys came out to play Georgie Porgie ran away.' I figure it basically mutated into a rhyme you hear in the playground years back; No idea if there's anything more-expressive than that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 15:41
|
|
|
Sel Nar posted:Only thing that comes to mind in regards to the name Georgie is the children's rhyme; Yep, that's Georgie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 17:35
|
|
|
The thing I notice the third time I watch the chapter the most is the goddamn ribbon. She literally points to it as a response, the thing has to be important. Another bit that strikes me as odd is the piece of denim. I haven't played this but it's like Walking dead, items don't transfer between episodes, right? We didn't get much use out of that one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
Really enjoying this so far, Bacter. I like it when an LP goes back to show other branches that you can't see in a single playthrough. Looking forward to episode 2.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
You can save Lawrence? That's . . . actually way better than helping Toad. And I know saving him will probably turn out to be terrible and cause / not prevent a whole bunch more people from dying/having terrible lives, but it's nice. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2015 22:59
|
|
|
Somewhat corroborating Dee's story, if you straight up say that Faith died, instead of pointing the gun at Dee, he'll point it at his own head and shoot himself. I think if you don't jump out during the gunpoint he dies.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2015 00:54
|
|
|
Interesting. Because I was going to say that he didn't have a gaping head wound this time, so maybe Tweedle shot him; but maybe he just panicked and did it himself. Still doesn't explain the gun. Two new things to think about : Snow mentioned in Starewolf that she knew what it was like to "have a falling out with a prince." Also, Faith saying, "What's the matter, Bigby? Tempted to take a bite?" seems to call back to Bigby's Mercy, which we found out about here. Fake Edit: Okay, wow, or maybe it could have to do with all the stuff in Snow's Book of Fables Entry. Did I miss this coming up, or what?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2015 02:20
|
|
|
I really like the story of Snow White and Rose Red. It is almost certainly an entirely different story though. Also, Rose Red has a song, which also almost certainly isn't related to the story. Except in Fabletown everyone seems to be every version of themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6fpszJ5xB0
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
Sel Nar posted:'Georgie Porgie, Pudding and pie,
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2015 04:24
|
|
|
And the "Kiss the Girls" one too. Didn't know what that was a reference too, but now it makes sense. Is there anything else to Georgie Porgie?Thesaya posted:I really like the story of Snow White and Rose Red. It is almost certainly an entirely different story though. Also, Rose Red has a song, which also almost certainly isn't related to the story. Except in Fabletown everyone seems to be every version of themselves. Interesting; never heard of these either, but Snow's book of fables makes a lot more sense now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2015 04:58
|
|
|
Right, just one more diversion before we move on to act 2! I was doing a side-LP during my last one, of Discworld Noir. It's here, if you're interested Anyway. That side LP fits here too, so I'm bringing it along. See, both Discworld Noir and The Wolf Among Us are pretty excellent Film Noir type stories set in a larger canon. Discworld Noir obviously took place in Terry Pratchett's Discworld, and this is in Fables. They have good plots, good characters, all the twists and turns you've come to love, in a gritty urban setting. I might try to find a future noir game to do next, just to get the past/present/future thing out of my system. Or not. Either way, I also did Nightlong. Nightlong is NOT a good Noir game. It's a very, very bad Noir game. The plot is paper thin, the characters are absurd, it suffers from every single Adventure Game Cliche in the book, and we ran out of terrorist acid in update two. It's a lot of fun to make fun of though, so I do that, along with my friend Mzbundifund. I'm including the whole nightlong library in the next post, and I'll link to it from the front page, but I probably won't post all the big icons in up front, just to avoid clutter. Either way, I'd very much like to invite you along, as we get some answers. (Also, I kept in the first words you'll hear me and Bundifund say just to illustrate how pro-ice I am - the agreed upon word was Sync, and five seconds later I forgot and said "go"). Also, I've included a quit plot summary in the beginning. FRIENDS, 
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2015 05:33
|
|
|
The whole Nightlong library    
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2015 05:34
|
|
|
ACT 2 WOOOO I'm very interested in hearing what your opinion is about this episode.  I'll be honest, there are highs and lows for me in the episode. Overall, I think it starts very very high, I remember being disappointed in the middle the first time I played, and then it's picking back up by the end. I'm talking vaguely, but I'll discuss in more detail later. Let's Discuss!
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 17:20
|
|
|
I TOLD YOU. I loving TOLD YOU ALL. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE A NICE MURDER. Goddamn glamors. Anyway, there's, uh, a lot of info here, I think I need to digest it a bit. Still. Mumblefuckingglamorsmumble. edit: Actually, a question does suggest itself immediately: do we know how long do glamors last? Could give us a time of death if she had to, say, replace it daily. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 17:42
|
|
|
I believe the only information in game we get about the duration of glamours is that they've been getting weaker and weaker. I don't think they've gotten bad enough that they need to be replaced daily, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 17:47
|
|
|
I'm thinking that if someone was just walking around looking like, what, number three in government, it'd probably get noticed if they kept it up for long enough. Anyway, I don't really buy Bluebeard as a suspect. He seems way too obvious and his actions so far could all be explained by just what he sees as efficient - which as we know by now, the fable government isn't. edit: VVV Come to think of it, Snow White does have a certain reputation for faking death. Glass coffins and so. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jan 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 17:49
|
|
|
"She wasn't really dead" is a very tired trope, but I agree that it makes sense and fits the story, especially as things progress in later episodes. And the conversation with Snow does go awkward if you're not being an rear end in a top hat, because it seems like it was written with the expectation that you would be one. "How dare you try to be nice! We're going to have her treat you like you're an rear end in a top hat anyways!" Cartheon fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jan 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 18:04
|
|
|
It's an old trope, but they usually involve people falling into rivers or disappearing, and being assumed they're dead. You don't usually find their decapitated head on the steps in a pool of blood. I admit, I actually liked that turnaround with Snow. Partner's getting killed early on is becoming a common trope too, and to reverse the soon to be standard reversal is oddly fitting. And, you know, glamours, so it can make sense to have a perfect copy of a decapitated head. I just wish they did more with the scene of Snow showing up again. Chapter 5 Video Bacter posted:Snow does show up in the comics.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
Hey, you don't know. She might only show up in flashbacks in the comics.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
I think the twist is really good because you both see the body (well the head but w/e) and Snow shows up almost immediately afterwards so its a big source of confusion as to what the hell is going on and it throws you off. Normally in other games/stories you'd find some blood in Snow's office so you immediately think she's alive and then she'd only show up towards the end of the investigation for the purpose of having a big important rescue.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
Okay, other people have said it already, but I'm not a huge fan of this fake-out. I'm not surprised mind you, but I'm a little annoyed. Still, lots of good stuff in this. Nice characterization for Ichabod (even if he is being a big faker) and Bigby's feelings for Snow (which were pretty obvious last episode). Telltale continues to deliver with background stuff; I especially liked "You could be next" on the bus and "Stalk Thing" on TJ's shirt. I don't know much about this Bluebeard Fable (and I haven't tried to look anything up on him either), but it feels kind of like they took that character and thought "Let's make this guy Kratos in a suit and glasses". I literally could not think of him any other way the entire time he was on screen. Dee's initial comment about Beauty feels like a slip up to me., while the suggestion that they are loving is clearly trying to cover for that. I doubt she's the mastermind behind this (we haven't been given any kind of motivation for it yet, all we know is she was sneaking out), but I have no idea why she'd be associating with the Tweedles. The Tweedles being involved in this makes me wonder if the Queen of Hearts is involved, since she's typically depicted as their Boss. Outside of that, Dee continues to show that he's not completely unrepentant (even if he is an rear end in a top hat), so I feel good about Bigby taking the Good Cop route here. More Tarot cards means I get to break out my little booklet again! Let's see what we've got this time. We'll start with the individual card meanings. The Three of Swords means Removal, Absence, Delay, Division, Rupture, Dispersion, and anything else you naturally would draw from that design, like, well, a broken heart. So it's basically Loss.tarot. If it had been drawn reversed it would mean Mental Alienation, Error, Loss, Distraction, Disorder, and Confusion. The Moon means Hidden Enemies, Danger, Calumny, Darkness, Terror, Deception, and Error. Drawn reversed you get Instability, Inconstancy, Silence, and lesser degrees of Deception and Error. Stop loving up idiot, they are coming to get you? The Hermit signifies Prudence, also and especially (directly quoting here) Treason, Dissimulation, Corruption, and Roguery. In reverse we get Concealment, Disguise, Policy, Fear, and Unreasoned Caution. Jesus Christ, Tarot is apparently 78 cards of "Everything is going to poo poo, run while you can". Okay, maybe not, but these cards certainly are! So if we look at this from a Past/Present/Future POV, we get that we lost something very important to us (everything implied by the Three of Swords), but someone was actually loving with us (Deception). We shouldn't get complacent though, because everything we care about is still in danger because whoever is behind this is still out there actively loving with us. We need to be very careful going forward, and basically trust nothing and no one. Now, I'm still not convinced they aren't also trying to give us something with the Celtic Cross, so let's go back to that, shall we? Where did I leave off... RickVoid posted:If that's a three card spread... yeah, that's gonna suck something awful for our buddy here. If we're getting more cards though, it could be the Celtic Cross, which uses about 11 cards total for a complete reading. Oh yeah. So up next is the third random card which is "What Crowns Him". Which is the Three of Swords. Um. So this is supposed to be the best said person can arrive at or his ideal in the matter or what he wants to make his own but is not yet his. And we're talking about the Loss card. That's just loving super. I guess the best interpretation I could make here is "Everything Bigby touches turns to poo poo" which, let's be honest, is pretty goddamned accurate. Fourth card is "What Is Beneath Him". These are the tools and situations our subject has to work with. The Moon here suggests that he keeps loving up, no one is straight with him, and all of his enemies and allies are in the shadows, hiding things from him. Also his allies are not necessarily his allies. Fantastic. Fifth card is "What Is Behind Him", or how things have been for him in the past. I think the Hermit may have another meaning here, other than that the above, what he has to work with now, is basically how things have always been for him. The Hermit itself could also be referring to the fact that the subject was, well, basically a loner, which also matches our character. Read ahead a bit in the next several cards in the cross. Really looking forward to seeing what cards we get next, because we're starting to get to the really interesting stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 19:12
|
|
|
Anybody who read fairest knows that Snow showing up In the comics don't mean nothin'. Not that I'm a huge fan of fairest. This is the one place in the game (I think) that meta-gaming really works against the plot. They pretty clearly are expecting it go to like this: Bigby is a sheriff trying to do his best, then THINGS GET REAL when Snow dies, he loses it a bit during the interrogation, then Snow shows up to catch him, he realizes in a flash how fake his veneer of civilization can be, self-reflection follows. Weirdly enough, they could have totally fixed that with a single line of dialogue where Snow is grateful you were there in the interrogation and you can commiserate about what a psycho Bluebeard is. That would validate both possible choices. But they didn't, so I assume they were really expecting everybody to get it. AND, while I really like the "YER CHOICES AFFECT THE STORY" hook, that usually makes me go to the extremes - all bad or all good. I'm not really sure what the way around that would be, but I remember the first time I played this I was nice to Dee initially, and the very second I saw "You Got Dee Talking" appear over his head, I knew I was going to be nice forever. It would have been a really bold move, but I think if they wanted the game to go this way, they needed to make the interrogation not work unless you were mean. Bacter fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jan 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 19:15
|
|
|
Here's a bit of a nice detail: TJ's shirt says Stalk Thing, which is a reference to Swamp Thing, a series that was published under the DC Vertigo imprint, same as Fables.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 05:09 |
|
|
Pwnstar posted:I think the twist is really good because you both see the body (well the head but w/e) and Snow shows up almost immediately afterwards so its a big source of confusion as to what the hell is going on and it throws you off. Normally in other games/stories you'd find some blood in Snow's office so you immediately think she's alive and then she'd only show up towards the end of the investigation for the purpose of having a big important rescue. I am glad they didn't do something like that. Going halfway would have ruined the moment; only by going all out "Snow DEAD!" and followed up with the in your face "Snow's ALIVE! And ANNOYED AT YOU!" does it really work. It's a good kind of frustration, one which you can share with Bigby, as he (and you) maybe should have seen that coming. RickVoid posted:Still, lots of good stuff in this. Nice characterization for Ichabod (even if he is being a big faker) and Bigby's feelings for Snow (which were pretty obvious last episode). Telltale continues to deliver with background stuff; I especially liked "You could be next" on the bus and "Stalk Thing" on TJ's shirt. I like that car moment as well, as it really is humanizing Crane, and let's Snow's death feel more poignant. Especially with the meta-narrative put out by that trailer showing you constantly fighting with him. They really put in the effort selling her death, to just turn around and say it was all a trick. I did a little (very careful, non-Fables related) research on Bluebeard. I think some of the story came up in either the Jerk or the Stare video, but . . . there's a good reason he's always been a suspect choice in this game. Bluebeard is not a good guy, in the past. As for his design, eh, you're right, it's not the best. He's kinda forgettable to me. Bacter posted:AND, while I really like the "YER CHOICES AFFECT THE STORY" hook, that usually makes me go to the extremes - all bad or all good. I'm not really sure what the way around that would be, but I remember the first time I played this I was nice to Dee initially, and the very second I saw "You Got Dee Talking" appear over his head, I knew I was going to be nice forever. The problem, also, is that in games where there are "moral" choices, the most interesting and informative endings are always behind the all-good or all-bad options. Binary choices only give you three "paths," A, B, and AB, and it's hard to do a satisfying, morally ambiguous ending. The only games I've seen do choices really well are things like 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors (which are stupidly hard to solve, but involve choosing the right choices to make events happen specifically by metagaming). Now, if they locked you out of solving certain mysteries by making certain choices, and good choices and bad choices were both required to get the best ending of each branch, that would be great. Even knowing everything, the answers you get really depend on what you believe in. I'd love a story like that, where things can't get completely wrapped up. Maybe the player can come to understand, but the people inside the game, like real life, always have one foot still in the unknown. Of course, it would be really hard to make and people would probably complain that there's no good ending, so it'll probably never happen. Edit: Wow, I just realized, I said I like how choices matter in a game where your choices don't matter at all in a moral context. It's just a big puzzle. Let me rephrase that: "Moral choice games suck at making meaningful choices, but it's better than the nothing we used to have; I hope they continue to get better." HeadGrenade fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2015 20:07
|
|