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Because you're too free. You guys just seem to hate the 'gubmint poking their nose in and taking away peoples freedom to 12 o'clock a brand new Hayabusa into a minivan full of kids. If you had the (entirely sensible) license tiers enjoyed in sane countries there would be a reason to import fun, fast, small displacement bikes and you would have a more diverse bike market. Though many Americans don't seem a fan of diversity, either.
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Mar 4, 2014 10:34
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If this wasn't so true I would find it offensive.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:31
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There's a difference between having the option of a CBR400 whatever and being forced into it because everything bigger is prohibitively expensive.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:36
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More power is always better.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:39
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Snowdens Secret posted:There's a difference between having the option of a CBR400 whatever and being forced into it because everything bigger is prohibitively expensive. Except it isn't, not here at least. A tidy VFR/CBR/ZXR400 costs around 3500-4000. A tidy SV is about the same. Indeed, the faster, bigger bikes that aren't supersports are cheaper than the small sporty bikes because people are more keen to ride sharp tiny missiles than large musclebikes. There's a certain intimidation factor to larger bikes that puts people off, they feel safer on slower bikes despite most of them being old and hosed. You can get a 919 or an SV1000 for 4500; a mint 400 sportsbike or 250 two stroke can cost just as much despite being much older and slower and shittier in basically every way.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:16
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Slavvy, you've repeatedly described how nuts your bike market is. Remember RC51 talk? Let's not forget the (much higher, in your neck of the woods) cost of consumables and insurance. You're also talking used bikes which, frankly, have zero to do with what new bikes get sold. We get the Ninja 300 and a few new 250s. Honda is dipping their toes in the water with a few 500s. I think we're getting the Duke 390. If those do well, maybe we'll get others. But if the market for small, nimble bikes in the US was bigger, I'd expect more SM sales. The envelopes in which a smaller, more nimble bike outperforms a bigger, torquier one are far, far from how the normal American rides (see the prevalence of archaic cruisers) and arguably far outside the legal road limits. That unsuitability means a legal push to force riders into what generally for them would be a lower performing bike would only have a negative effect on overall sales.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:29
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Oh we're talking about new bikes? Cause RBL mentioned importing I thought we were talking about used bikes. As far as new bikes go, a sporty small bike costs less than 10k brand new; a gixxer1000 costs around 18-20k here brand new. I don't know how that compares to the US.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:56
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Not to rehash this for the millionth time, but the MSRP ratio is similar (if you're taking the 250/300's as 'sporty small bikes.) We don't really have grey market imports in the US so for your used market to have stock, the new market would have to sell them.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:50
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In that case I don't see the point bitching about it anyway because small sportybikes don't really exist anywhere anymore AFAIK. What's the sportiest small bike you can buy anywhere in the world? A duke 390? Ninja 300? Both of which are pretty lame compared to the 90's 400's and 2t 250's. FWIW I know a guy who races in sub-500cc racing using an R6 that has one piston taken out and replaced with a counterweight to make it a 450 triple and the thing screams. It's much, much faster than an SV650 or pretty much anything under 600cc, and that isn't even factoring in the chassis benefits. And this is something a guy made in a shed. So I don't buy the argument that small sportsbikes would be prohibitively expensive to develop for the manufacturer. But because the US market is so massive and dictates the trends that wash over onto the rest of the planet, it would make everyone's lives better if the US had a tiered licensing system. Small fast bikes would be back in vogue and would therefore become a cost-effective proposition for selling in the rest of the world, too.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:17
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There's just no money in making up-market 400s. They're honestly kinda poo poo, but I'm probably going to chop the gently caress out of that CB-1 to try and get it as light as possible for track use, with a little street use thrown in. Should be a fun little project. Will need to figure out wtf to do with the tank though, cause it is ruuuusteeehhh. If I can get ~50hp, 370 pounds or so, that'll be a lot of fun, although literally every bike in the garage will blow the poo poo out of it on the track, RS125 will win on weight and is nearly as powerful, the RVF should be 20hp more powerful and lighter, the SMC is about the same HP and lighter... But it'll be fun!
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Mar 4, 2014 22:23
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I think the only reason you think they're poo poo is because they're from the 90's. If you compare them to other bikes from the 90's, you'll find that they're really pretty good. A modern multi-cylinder 400 with efi and a decent frame+suspenders would work really well I think, and if people didn't think bigger=better they would sell like hotcakes, too. FWIW the RVF and CB1 are both down on power a fair bit compared to the really quick 400's like the NC30, NC29 and Kawi ZXR. All three of those bikes are just as quick, if not quicker than, an SV650 in a straight line. Despite being two decades old and having the technology to match.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:27
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That's a silly argument. An R6 with a counterweight instead of a 4th piston (or the actual manufacturable equivalent bike) would cost roughly the same to develop and build, and therefore sell, as an R6 with 4 working cylinders. If you recast just the engine, heads etc you're incurring extra development cost to get trivial weight savings (see the difference between a GSXR-600 and -750.) There would be absolutely no reason to buy it. Since 600cc and 1000cc class bikes must exist to line up with racing classes, the smaller bike would be dead weight. If you absolutely must have a detuned bike for beginners, you can just put take the fancy engine management new bikes are getting and throw a 'learner's map' on it. The restrictive licensing stuff just results in fewer people getting into biking in the first place (which is exactly the intent) and fewer total bikes sold. Realistically if you want sub-600cc sportybikes to take off, you need a bigtime sub-600cc WSBK racing series, and I don't think the popularity is there. You could try reducing the displacement limits on WSS but I think you'd get a lot of pushback.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:30
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Slavvy posted:I think the only reason you think they're poo poo is because they're from the 90's. If you compare them to other bikes from the 90's, you'll find that they're really pretty good. A modern multi-cylinder 400 with efi and a decent frame+suspenders would work really well I think, and if people didn't think bigger=better they would sell like hotcakes, too. Nah, even the NC30 isn't going to keep up - it only makes a bit over 50hp stock and is as heavy as an SV650. It might be a touch faster w/r/t top speed but that's only because the aero is better. The bikes could be decent, but frankly, you only lose so much weight without a totally fresh redesign, and that's expensive and all for something that's doesn't really have a place. Which is why it's great to end up with an essentially free honda CB1 to gently caress with and do something dumb with. I wish the guy hadn't sold the flatslides he had for it... Oh yeah - in racing, it takes a hell of a lot of building to get any of the old 4 cylinder 400s in line with the SV650s in the race classes out here - it's not easy but doable to get an SV to 90HP, but it's drat near impossible to get one of the 400s there. Z3n fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 22:39
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I know a guy with a ZXR400 punched out to 450 that made 75-odd horsepower at the wheel. My NC30 managed 55hp at the wheel FWIW. And reiterating this: these bikes are from the 90's and have technology from the 80's. Comparing them to even a budget modern bike isn't really fair. Also you're all equating small bikes with bikes for beginners and I don't see why those two should be the same thing. An RS250 aprilia or RGV250 are certainly small bikes but they're extremely not-for-beginners. I like the idea of having something fast but tiny for really twisty roads; on many NZ backroads my ZX10 feels far too big and has power too difficult to deploy; I almost never get out of second gear. I want something to ride on those roads that isn't a supermoto-style whatever or just plain slow and budget. I'll stop derailing your thread now 
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Mar 4, 2014 23:36
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Nah, no worries, it's fun to chat about these things. Anyways, in future bad ideas, anyone have a cheap F2 rear wheel floating around? http://classic-web.archive.org/web/20040426153244/http://www.hondacb1.com/experimental/09.htm Easy enough to make a spacer and mill the appropriate bits off the sprocket carrier. Then apparently a CBR929/600 front end drops in, so if I strip all that poo poo down, slap some fairings on the bike, cut the exhaust down to nothing, put pod filters on, I should be able to have a hilarious little track bike to gently caress with. I should probably get the bike running first but WHATEVER. All this poo poo together would give me a small displacement 4 cylinder that took a 120/160 tire combo, plus I could run hilarious fairings on it (i have an extra couple of upper tyga RVF RC211V replica fairings, after all...), might make a bitchin' little trackbike that I could throw to friends if they wanted to play...if I sell all the extra poo poo I have for the bikes, then I could even maybe come out of the entire thing up a bit of cash. Ideas, ideas...
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Mar 5, 2014 00:08
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Snowdens Secret posted:The restrictive licensing stuff just results in fewer people getting into biking in the first place (which is exactly the intent) and fewer total bikes sold. That's like saying the intent of having driving licenses in the first place is to have less people driving cars. Z3n posted:It's a CB-1! What ever gave Honda the idea that this would sell in the US in any profitable numbers?
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Mar 5, 2014 02:20
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Nidhg00670000 posted:That's like saying the intent of having driving licenses in the first place is to have less people driving cars. I dunno, but the way this one worked out is I basically got a 2 for one deal, with my buddy buying the nicer one for a beginner bike and me getting the other one for free as a thank you for making sure everything is shipshape, so win for me. There's one more out there too, that I might snag if this project goes well.
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Mar 5, 2014 02:22
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Slavvy posted:Also you're all equating small bikes with bikes for beginners and I don't see why those two should be the same thing. An RS250 aprilia or RGV250 are certainly small bikes but they're extremely not-for-beginners. Those 250 2ts were killed (in the US) by emissions laws, not because people didn't buy them. Of course two-strokes are more power:weight efficient. A 250 four-stroke wouldn't have the power and a 500 four-stroke wouldn't have the low weight. The Duke 390 is the closest we'll come to bikes like the ones you list (assuming we don't get the RC390) and will have a premium price for its premium components; we'll see how it sells. Also RBLs comment was about small bikes for licensing tiers, which ostensibly are about learner bikes for beginners. Nidhg00670000 posted:That's like saying the intent of having driving licenses in the first place is to have less people driving cars. In the US, getting a driving license is basically a rubber stamp that costs like thirty bucks, and people scream bloody murder about how even that is racist and discriminatory. Now look at a tiered motorcycle licensing process that requires extensive time and potentially thousands of dollars of officially approved training.
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Mar 5, 2014 05:40
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Point taken. I will, however, say that having a licensing system that discourages people riding is a good thing. I'd prefer fullsized bike riders to be a small cadre of veterans, hardened by the trials of riding pathetic bikes to a strict standard, than a dudebro with a cap + flip-flops careening his sick gixxer into a tree.
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Mar 5, 2014 08:21
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Slavvy posted:Point taken. I will, however, say that having a licensing system that discourages people riding is a good thing. I'd prefer fullsized bike riders to be a small cadre of veterans, hardened by the trials of riding pathetic bikes to a strict standard, than a dudebro with a cap + flip-flops careening his sick gixxer into a tree. The rest of the world gets the cool bikes, we get cheap replacement motors. Don't take that away from us.
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Mar 5, 2014 08:36
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Slavvy posted:Point taken. I will, however, say that having a licensing system that discourages people riding is a good thing. I'd prefer fullsized bike riders to be a small cadre of veterans, hardened by the trials of riding pathetic bikes to a strict standard, than a dudebro with a cap + flip-flops careening his sick gixxer into a tree. It's an interesting topic. You can be utterly retarded and still get a license, but with some degree of training a retard will be better able to operate his bike. The stats I was able to randomly google says the US had 72.34 bike fatalities pr 100 000 registered bikes, the UK had 36.2 in 2011. I know there is a global (or at least, Euro-US) trend of decreasing deaths now following a peak in the 90s, early 00s. So the difference between UK and US might not be close to 2x by 2011, but you can certainly tell that there is a big difference in accident rates.
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Mar 5, 2014 10:30
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http://www.allballsracing.com/index.php/forkconversion All the information in the world about fork swaps. Also handy: http://www.ohiocaferacers.com/OCRStemSizes.pdf Z3n fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 23:31
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That page is giving me sooo many bad ideas.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:37
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http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/4357087694.html I would pay someone a hundred bucks to go buy that for me just so I didn't have to deal with whatever bullshit it would entail.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:59
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Christ that's some depressing pricing. I'd happily pay you 1500 for that and run away laughing hysterically.
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Mar 6, 2014 01:01
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Slavvy posted:Christ that's some depressing pricing. I'd happily pay you 1500 for that and run away laughing hysterically. Oh don't get me wrong, it's a great deal, it's also just 50/50 that part of it is stolen, and honestly, I just want the front end for the CB1. The rest of it I would sell. But at the moment, there are nearly a dozen bikes in the house so I need to chill the gently caress out for a little bit. Edit, gently caress: 1 BMW, 5 Hondas, 2 Suzukis, 1 KTM, 1 Triumph, 2 Yamahas, 1 Brammo. poo poo.
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Mar 6, 2014 01:07
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Street 1986 Suzuki GS550 ... BMW S1000RR 2013 Triumph Tiger 2012 Suzuki GSXR750 2013 
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Mar 6, 2014 08:59
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I'm not sure how that AllBalls fork swap site works, because it lists practically everything from old Ninja 500s to new GSXR-Thous to big cruisers as compatible with mine. Even ignoring fork length, it includes multiple bikes I know have different fork diameters.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:24
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Snowdens Secret posted:I'm not sure how that AllBalls fork swap site works, because it lists practically everything from old Ninja 500s to new GSXR-Thous to big cruisers as compatible with mine. Even ignoring fork length, it includes multiple bikes I know have different fork diameters. Its not listing fork swap info at all. Its listing triple clamp bearing sizes. It also ignores stem length, which varies greatly among bikes. The vast majority of bikes listed as compatible arent actually compatible at all due to stem length, which is something thats not easy to get around. Then there's the actual fork length, the rake differences introduced by different triples and axle mounting configs. Ex. I looked up a 2012 GSXR600 and it listed a 1988 Kawi ER250 as compatible. I guarantee you cant make that swap with just bearings, and even if you could the length/rake would be way out of line. The site is not really that useful.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:53
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It's listing bikes that have compatible steering bearing id and od. Yes, it's not 100% of the info you need to do a fork swap, but basically the only additional info you need on top is offset, stem length, and fork length to do a swap, which is usually relatively easy to get. Complete front end swaps are significantly easier as you dont have to gently caress with spacers, rotor offsets, etc.
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Mar 6, 2014 16:47
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Alright, need to do some purchases: Purchase 1: Larger toolbox. Purchase 2: Cheap belt sander. HF will take care of these things. Eventual purchase 3/4 Lathe and a compressor. Time to get the garage organized.
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Mar 7, 2014 23:18
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On the note of bearings and stem sizes, here's a nice-sized list of fork tube diameters in case you want it. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588758
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Mar 8, 2014 08:25
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Slim Pickens posted:On the note of bearings and stem sizes, here's a nice-sized list of fork tube diameters in case you want it. Ahh that is cool, thank you.
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Mar 8, 2014 17:10
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No Aprilias, no Ducatis, only RSU forks, by the look of it. USD forks often have different diameters for the upper and lower triple trees.
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Mar 8, 2014 18:54
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quote:Dear Honda, This is the draft of my letter to honda. loving motorcycles. Yesterday I spent a bunch of time digging around on a no spark issue only to discover that I had left the killswitch off, because i don't have handlebars on the bike at the moment and...yeah, I don't want to talk about it. Also discovered a stuck carb float valve, dumped half a gallon of gas on the garage floor. I also cleaned the carbs, which were the worst I've ever seen - the pilot jets were so clogged it took half a dozen run throughs with wire to get the varnish out, and when I'd spray them with carb cleaner, they'd just reclog with more varnish. After a few times, I realized I should just buy an ultrasonic cleaner but in the end I got them clean. Although, on the bright side, I bought a CBR929 minus the motor for 300 bucks in boxes, delivered to my front door. I was planning on stealing the front end (which was actually off a 954) for the CB1 and selling the rest, but in a hilarious turn of events, the guy that I bought it from called me an hour or 2 later and was like "Yo, so that 929 I just sold you. If you just need the front end, how would you feel about selling the rest of it back to me? I have a buddy who's looking to build up a trackbike piece by piece and if you don't need that stuff, he'll give you 300 bucks for it, and I'll come and pick up everything you don't need!". I told him I'd sell him everything back for 200 bucks, cause I don't really feel right just having the dude deliver the parts and stuff only to take some of it and then have him pick it all up. He's going to swing by and grab it sometime soon. Not bad! Also Slavvy, lol, CBR 929 in pieces for 300 bucks. Guy said he had a line on an engine for another 300 bucks. Thus far, I've bought a 954 front end, a factory manual, and a carb rebuild kit for it.
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Mar 13, 2014 19:36
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This should be loud enough.  
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Apr 12, 2014 04:09
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Z3n posted:Also Slavvy, lol, CBR 929 in pieces for 300 bucks. Guy said he had a line on an engine for another 300 bucks. How about you take those parts and use them to build an ingenious contraption with which you can go gently caress yourself  Also there is a Maori word for that exhaust: it's Rangi. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Apr 12, 2014 |
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Apr 12, 2014 06:51
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Slavvy posted:How about you take those parts and use them to build an ingenious contraption with which you can go gently caress yourself If it makes you feel better, one of those forks has no internals and was sealed with some sort of putty. I have no idea but I'm replacing the loving things.
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Apr 12, 2014 06:54
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Slavvy posted:Also there is a Maori word for that exhaust: it's Rangi. I love that there's an endearing term for half-arsing it in Maori. I don't want to live in a part of the world that doesn't glorify making a poo poo effort at something.* On that note: Traffic in the Old Country *Obviously I'm living up to the fine old Australian tradition of claiming everything from NZ as our own.
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Apr 12, 2014 08:26
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Ktm is gone, time to start shopping for a CBX.
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Apr 18, 2014 06:17
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