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Anonymous Zebra posted:The theme of faith vs. science was supposed to carry over the entire series with every mystery having an answer that lies on both sides. I know this is going all the way back to the first page of the thread, but give me a loving break. The show was supposed to be what the showrunners wanted it to be. Not what you, me, or anyone else thought it was supposed to be. If you thought it was one thing and it turned out to be another, you're basically saying you're pissed and butthurt because you got fooled. Noxville posted:I did listen to the podcast again a while ago and they were being glib, but maybe no more than usual I guess. They were clearly joking, besides what else are they gonna say besides "none of the above", which would have people shouting the spiders are the island's mysterious third party. People take that list way too seriously.
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Jun 20, 2010 23:39
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LividLiquid posted:Why would Daniel have it in his journal that the dude in the shoes was going to die when he wasn't even living in the country at the time? No, it's a pretty pivotal moment for Desmond, who most likely would have related the story to Faraday at some point. Why is it so hard to believe that a scientist (and one with a bad memory at that) would obsessively take extremely detailed notes? Hell, it's even possible Eloise herself told the story to Daniel, the same way Widmore visited him before he went to the island. Or maybe she wrote it in the journal herself. The point is, there's several ways that information could have found its way into Faraday's journal, and thus into the hands of 1970's Eloise.
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Jun 23, 2010 13:27
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Wyld Cannon posted:I thought you could explain it because it was a "new timeline" and that's why Ben wouldn't remember, but it couldn't have been a new timeline because Faraday's journal references meeting Desmond, right? There are no new timelines, as it turned out.
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Jun 23, 2010 19:48
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euphronius posted:So the notebook is a time travel paradox? No, she bought it new in whatever year, he started putting stuff in it until he went back in time and she took it off his dead body. So she had it for two periods of its lifetime, at the same time. Dig?
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Jun 23, 2010 21:01
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FrensaGeran posted:I think it's funny that the integrity of the timeline required Eloise to shop around at probably over a dozen stores to find the EXACT notebook that she got in '77 Umm, no she didn't. Because no matter what she bought, it would end up being the notebook she picked up off Faraday's corpse. What happened, happened.
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Jun 23, 2010 21:27
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Why hasn't everyone ignored gianthogweed yet? There is only the one timeline. Jesus.
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Jun 24, 2010 10:50
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aniero posted:So, what exactly is the stretch in logic here? Favoring the more complex solution to the simpler one.
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Jun 25, 2010 00:58
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LividLiquid posted:My only problem with the simpler one is Dave suddenly wanting Hurley dead when previously all he wanted him to do was eat. The island Dave didn't want Hurley *dead*, he was just trying to convince him that was the way out of the "dream". Which fits with the delusion answer.
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Jun 25, 2010 01:07
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marktheando posted:So nothing definitive, but enough for me to think that the source has something very important to do with the whole life/death cycle. Also if this is true then our castaways killed a bunch of babies all round the world in the finale by leaving the plug pulled for a while. As much as I'm anticipating the Hurley/Ben short, I'd really like to know how the people who left on the plane explained themselves to the rest of the world.
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Jun 27, 2010 19:36
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Wyld Cannon posted:And Jack never really had time to think of it, but had he been able to he should have realized that Locke couldn't kill himself since he was a candidate. I think people are confused about this, Michael wasn't able to kill himself because the island wasn't done with him, NOT because he was a candidate. Smokey couldn't kill the candidates because he couldn't harm the "protector" and the candidates were possible protectors.
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Jun 28, 2010 22:10
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Wyld Cannon posted:But out of anyone wouldn't Locke be one of the top seeds to be the protector? That's some shoddy rules if Michael can't kill himself because he had to . . . not stop a bomb from going off, Jack can't kill himself because (reason?), but Locke CAN kill himself because (reason?). I don't see any consistency there. Locke didn't kill himself, but besides that his death was an important part of the plan. I don't see any inconsistency at all.
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Jun 28, 2010 23:31
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FrensaGeran posted:EvilTobaccoExec is so paranoid about accepting any part of the narrative to the point where any emotional connection is nullified. He watches the show like a robot. Shush you two or I'm gonna go get aatrek. <  >
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Jun 30, 2010 01:11
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Has anyone considered the possibility that Illana was looking for Richard at the cabin? That is who she asked for at the foot after all, and it would make sense that Richard had been using the cabin to meet with Jacob. That would explain why Ben thought that's where to find Jacob, and the ring of ash (to keep out the MiB when Jacob and Richard met there). Edit: Also, I think Locke loving with the ash is what broke the circle and allowed the MiB to get in.
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Jun 30, 2010 21:02
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Johnny B. Goode posted:the scene in "The Man Behind the Curtain" absolutely suggests that it was Jacob No poo poo, that's called "misdirection". And it worked because at the time we knew nothing about Jacob. Now that we know more, it's certain that wasn't Jacob.
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Jun 30, 2010 23:39
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Johnny B. Goode posted:No. You think it was misdirection. I agree that the second time Locke went into the cabin, it was misdirection. But the ash around the cabin made it pretty blatant that the monster couldn't get in. So Jacob had the power to become invisible? Cuz that's what you're saying.
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Jun 30, 2010 23:48
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Bobx66 posted:At no point did we ever see anyone break the circle We saw Locke "disturb" the ash, which might be enough. In fact, I think that's the most logical place for it to have happened.
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Jul 1, 2010 00:11
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FrensaGeran posted:The next time we see Smokey appear as a consistent form to multiple parties, he's Christian. Christian's body is...well...ok let's pretend it's on the island somewhere. A boar ate it, but the boar is on the island so it still counts. Try this on for size: the airline lost Christian's body in the real world, same as the sideways. That's why the coffin was empty. Anyway, to answer your question that's been answered 50 times already, MiB needed Locke's body on the plane so that when he showed up there on the beach people would think Locke had actually been resurrected. That's important, because without that Richard and Ben would have just went oh hey smoke monster. That was the point of Ilanna and Co.'s towing around Locke's body, to say hey look he's REALLY dead and you know who looks like dead people?
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Jul 1, 2010 13:14
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Johnny B. Goode posted:Haha you took your failed argument personally. Next time read the posts entirely, and respond with logic and you won't have to resort to name calling in desperation. If this ain't the pot callin' the kettle black, I don't know what is.
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Jul 1, 2010 14:46
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Johnny B. Goode posted:I've never actually personally attacked anyone in this thread. Oh? Johnny B. Goode posted:Once again you're a loving imbecile who doesn't read. Johnny B. Goode posted:You're an imbecile. Granted that's only two name calls, but there's more where you imply people just aren't the cream of intelligentsia. Actually, that's pretty much the majority of your posting lately. Seriously, knock this poo poo off.
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Jul 1, 2010 16:05
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marktheando posted:Well I just say purgatory for convenience, I don't believe it is literally the Christian purgatory. If it was the Christian one then Sayid would surely be headed straight to hell for being an unbeliever. Unless it's the islamic purgatory. 
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Jul 1, 2010 17:43
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FrensaGeran posted:she can't know...what ring shop exactly Desmond went to, at what day, on what time. She can't know all that. She doesn't have to. In the case of the ring shop, she wouldn't even have to know the exact day. Hell, all she absolutely has to know is that Desmond is going to buy a ring, but doesn't. WHH takes care of all the rest.
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Jul 1, 2010 22:59
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FrensaGeran posted:But explain to me how he doesn't take the ring, and then TAKES the ring? That's two distinct playing out of events. WHH completely contradicts this. Desmond is special. Besides, how do we know that's not exactly what happened the first time? He buys the ring anyhow, but ends up throwing it into a river when he's had time to think about Eloise and her seeming omniscience? The only difference between the first and time and time he travels back is...his own subjective experience.
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Jul 1, 2010 23:19
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FrensaGeran posted:Eloise is genuinely surprised that he takes the ring, meaning at a different time, he didn't. No, she's surprised because Faraday's journal says he doesn't. Even if he didn't buy the ring then and there, how would Eloise know that? My point is the experience doesn't happen to her twice, like it does to Desmond. There is no "different time" for her.
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Jul 1, 2010 23:28
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FrensaGeran posted:Going into this, remember, Desmond never describes to Faraday about his post-key turning adventure. Do we know that for a fact? I don't think we do.
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Jul 1, 2010 23:49
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FrensaGeran posted:There was no scene of Daniel asking Desmond detailed loving questions about men in red shoes. There doesn't need to be. We've got a proven possible way for that information to make it into Faraday's journal.
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Jul 2, 2010 00:06
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I have a feeling this Desmond traveling to the sideways world in FBYE is something Darlton wishes they'd thought of, but that it's not what happened.
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Jul 9, 2010 22:35
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FrensaGeran posted:And again, time travel doesn't explain Eloise, at all. Real World Eloise does not have absolute omniscience about who lives and dies, when, how, and where. She does not have a pass that allows her to operate ring shops that aren't hers. In 1996 she couldn't possibly know the exact order of events that would eventually lead him to the island. She knew he had to be there in 2004, yes, because of the journal. But Daniel Faraday could not possibly have the knowledge in his journal that Eloise demonstrated. I think you're not giving enough credit to narrative license here. Lost is not a documentary, in order to achieve certain goals the creators have to play a little fast and loose. Her "omniscience" is there to enhance the mystery of her position. The journal is the source of her knowledge. It's information from the future, about the future. That's pretty drat mind blowing if you ask me. As for her being in the ring shop, we know the others have a pretty influential network all over the world. If they can run a butcher shop, it's no stretch to think they could manage a jewelry store too.
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Jul 10, 2010 10:33
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FrensaGeran posted:You're handwaving Eloise knowing when and where and how a man in red shoes died on a specific day. We've been over how there's no way any of that information could ever appear in his journal. No possible way. Remember? You decided Daniel had an astonishingly in depth 6 hour interview when Desmond was getting ready to get on the chopper? It's goddamn artistic license. You really don't think people are constantly talking with no dead air do you? It's too early to come up with more examples, but yes, Mrs Hawking definitely has her fair share. Maybe it is handwaving, but like I said Lost isn't a documentary. Not every single bit of it is going to fit some logical framework if you think hard enough.
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Jul 10, 2010 11:01
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FrensaGeran posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_license That's how. Lost wasn't a documentary. It's not an unassailable monolith of airtight logic and continuity. Some things just aren't going to add up, sorry. I've said I liked the purgatory theory before, but I just don't see that it's what they were trying to convey.
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Jul 10, 2010 21:58
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FrensaGeran posted:I personally feel they had purgatory in mind from season 1 I won't argue with you there, supposedly that scene with Jack and his dad in the funeral home was written alongside the pilot. But advocating FBYE as Desmond going to purgatory is just stretching things really loving thin.
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Jul 10, 2010 22:04
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Szmitten posted:It's less of an afterlife and more of a story/character/audience reunion/last hurrah. More a sort of après vie.
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Jul 11, 2010 20:59
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Akuma posted:Hey LooseChanj, this is off topic, but why did you change your avatar to FuShnick's? It's hella confusing. Just be thankful I didn't use the same quote.
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Jul 11, 2010 22:00
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Something just occurred to me, why would there be an intercom inside a shark tank?
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Jul 15, 2010 08:47
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Johnny B. Goode posted:Misdirection. Oh, NOW you're willing to entertain that notion.
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Jul 15, 2010 20:14
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Bobx66 posted:Sorry I meant right before Ben stole Alex. Same answer I expect. Jacob is so hands-off I even doubt he ordered the Dharma massacre. Remember Ben's defense when he brought Alex back, it sounded a lot like "what would Jesus do". The others seemed to have really vague ideas about who Jacob really was, and it seemed like they just assumed quite a lot.
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Jul 19, 2010 15:05
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Akuma posted:Yes but why would that be in Daniel's journal? That's the problem with that theory. Why wouldn't it be? Seriously people, that's the answer. It's a tv show. Just because it doesn't make 100% deeply documented proof positive iron clad case study does not mean there's some other explanation out there. Eloise gets her knowledge of the future from Faraday's journal.
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Jul 20, 2010 10:18
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Akuma posted:Oh okay even though it makes no sense for Daniel to document this random occurrence that he wasn't connected to and it would be a paradox for Eloise to have written it So explain to me how a journal of facts sent into the past isn't intended to be the vector for information delivery. In a god drat story. Especially when the woman who had all that foreknowledge said "for the first time I don't know what's going to happen next" when that information came up to the present.
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Jul 20, 2010 10:53
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spe posted:Unless we see new stations I can't imagine anything that would need "closing down". That's what I was thinking, the Lamp Post.
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Jul 20, 2010 16:00
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marktheando posted:So we have Hurley shutting down a Dharma station and we get some answers? I think that means he finds the hatch with Joop the ape in it, who then explains all the loose ends. "Yes Hugo, Eloise knew about the man with red shoes because she read it in Faraday's journal." That would be mind-blowingly awesome.
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Jul 21, 2010 00:29
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FrensaGeran posted:That and Desmond didn't tell Charlie or Hurley anything at all. Not during FBYE, but who's to say he didn't talk about it later? In an off-camera moment. Maybe Hurley had to threaten not to hand him any leaves while they were takin' care of business in the jungle and got the whole story.
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Jul 21, 2010 10:16
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