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Rutibex posted:It's only a matter of time before the government starts considering a "final solution" for sex offenders. I'm only kidding slightly here. America doesn't seem to mind doing absolutely morally repugnant things to people as long as they "deserve it". Remember the time sex offenders were literally forced to live under a bridge because everywhere else fell within a certain distance of pools/schools/whatever they were not allowed to be around? 
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Jul 26, 2010 15:57
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Sylink posted:You could probably get similar results just by comparing prison systems in the United States with Western Europe/Scandinavia and their recidivism rates. Not even  . The stuff you see in US prisons is unambiguously torture and sadism.
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Jul 26, 2010 22:32
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taremva posted:Reading this thread, and the previous ones who have been posted, really makes me wonder why the gently caress Americans aren't rioting all over the place. The entire field of psychology was founded to deal with these phenomena and it's a hellish bouquet of bystander effect, just-world fallacy and the Milgram experiment. Gonna go ahead and throw the rest of the america*.png series in here.   There are exactly two countries who are not signatories to the Convention on the Rights of the Child: United States of America and Somalia. 
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Jul 28, 2010 12:19
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DarkCrawler posted:There are a lot of plain stupid people in the world. People, when measured by any metric of intelligence, will always return horrible results. Some of these people live in United States. Stupidity and ignorance can be a reason, not an explanation.
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Jul 28, 2010 12:58
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taremva posted:I don't mean any offence, but for a country which shouts "FREEDOM" I'm really starting to wonder. The Tea Party apparently believes that Europe is a socialist dystopia. I can't imagine the mindset necessary to think of UHC as a terrifying specter of communism, while fretting about being unable to afford basic health care because of preexisting conditions and/or hundreds of dollars a month insurance fees. v  v
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Jul 28, 2010 17:43
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We have this esoteric thing called psychiatry. It's not perfect, but I hear it can lead to some impressive results if done right! Maybe you guys over in the states could try it out some time? 
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Jul 29, 2010 18:14
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Rutibex posted:The issue people have with Homolka is that she received a very light sentence because of her plea bargain made before the video evidence was uncovered. Many people feel cheated out of revenge. We take terminology seriously 'round these parts. 
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Jul 29, 2010 19:30
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mew force shoelace posted:Can you find other examples? Like I said there has been a kajillion examples of a bunch of bad people all together at various times in history without it becoming rapetoberfest. I think he's agreeing with you? The reason rape is prevalent is not because the people inside are good, bad or clinically insane. It's because the conditions are inhumane. If you put any thousand people in a concrete box, give them no personal space, beat them and randomly shove them in segregation for months at a time, things will get violent very quickly and irreversibly. Now you just need to harshly punish all inmate-on-inmate violence except rape and you have yourself a rape dungeon! 
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Aug 2, 2010 13:55
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nm posted:I know about these organizations (I am a public defender afterall) and they do excellent work, but I'm talking about organizations that pretty much advocate getting rid of prisons, at least as we know them today. Prisons crush communities, create criminals, drain resources by having a higher priority than actually useful things, devalue labor with slavery and line the pockets of Capital. I don't know how any socialist could tolerate the current prison system.
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May 15, 2011 23:03
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nm posted:Depends on your definition of socialism. I'd love to know which definition of socialism considers creating crime, permanent underclasses and depreciating labor value to be positive outcomes.
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May 16, 2011 00:51
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Rutibex posted:The boogy man definition that involves some combination of 1984 and Nazi Germany. Think Glen Beck. So it's the kind of "socialist" that wants to send all the socialists to death camps?  e: Wait, that's what you were saying. I call Poe's, I seriously thought you were making a legit argument. 
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May 16, 2011 02:20
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joat mon posted:Let's not be silly. While you won't find that in either The Wealth of Nations or in the 1844 Manuscripts, both Socialist and Capitalist nations have prisons. I'm not railing against prisons. I'm railing against a very specific capitalist parody of a justice system. A prison system that actually creates crime is a failed prisons system that should be dismantled and rebuilt from ground up regardless of the local political creed of choice.
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May 16, 2011 09:38
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Let's take nessin's assumption that certain people deserve to be treated like animals and ask what would happen if we treated them like human beings and focused on rehabilitation. Would they be just as animal-like as after a stay in a supermax hell? There is no direction you can approach that argument from that doesn't make it fall apart at the slightest touch. This is because there is no argument, just a revenge fantasy.
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May 27, 2011 16:27
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Did all of you completely miss Nessin's point? His claim was that offenders' moral convictions about committing crimes wouldn't be changed by better conditions in prison, not that a stay in prison won't affect their actions or that prisoners deserve to be raped 24 hours a day. His argument wasn't an argument. It was a claim repeated ten times or so, without providing any justification, reasoning or anything of substance at all. Any times he made supporting statements, they were the well-trodden Just World talking points hidden behind more unsubstantiated claims that fly against everything we know about psychology and sociology. That there is a degree of wrongness after which the argument stops being an argument and flies off into the pony wonderland of Prison Sequestria where Fascism is Magic.
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May 28, 2011 11:20
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brakeless posted:If I'm allowed hyperbole for the sake of argument, isn't the end state with stuff like this a society of middle and upper class people, whose lives are supported by an underclass that only works while in prison? A slave state based on supposedly modern law. Well, it is slavery. The only reason it flies is because slavery is explicitly permitted for the purpose of punishment. You're pretty much dead on.
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May 28, 2011 14:57
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josh04 posted:I saw on the news he was 'being prepared for eight days of solitary confinement'. Even you, Norway? Solitary confinement isn't always borderline sensory deprivation a la The Forever.
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Aug 5, 2011 16:53
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