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Yeah, I really hate it when people have a discussion about things.
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Aug 27, 2015 04:59
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Blackheart posted:It's also interesting that Tony sees them "banishing her from the program" as a bad thing. The "becoming a god" program? If Tony really thought they were a real threat wouldn't it make more sense to take her outta there and, I dunno, send her to a normal school? It could be that "The Program" is the project to separate her from her elemental self, and therefore allow her to have kids without afterwards dying a slow and unavoidable death. I can see why that would be a pretty big deal to him.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:08
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah, I really hate it when people have a discussion about things. It is possible to discuss badly.
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Aug 27, 2015 10:01
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I just wanted to say that hobo Tony looks hilarious
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Aug 27, 2015 18:28
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I wonder if he was dealing with physical needs at this point in time?
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Aug 28, 2015 05:25
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Benagain posted:I wonder if he was dealing with physical needs at this point in time? Are you asking if he pooped in his pants?
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Aug 28, 2015 05:53
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Tony Carver: Best dad or bestest dad?
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Aug 28, 2015 08:02
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Tony's impression of Kat is kind of hazy.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:04
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I knew it, it wasn't because the court "wouldn't allow" him to not be a huge jerk to her. He was just continuing to gently caress up.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:04
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no see tony is the best dad because
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Aug 28, 2015 08:07
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Tony Carver, Bad Dad, Okay Person.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:09
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And Tom delivers an  to the haters in the notes.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:09
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Arthur Crackpot posted:And Tom delivers an We've gone past delusional and into hallucinating.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:09
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Lurdiak posted:I knew it, it wasn't because the court "wouldn't allow" him to not be a huge jerk to her. He was just continuing to gently caress up. He had an extremely british breakdown and asked her daughter to stop wearing her mothers's makeup and to cut her hair short so she looks less like her mother. Or you know he just fucks up 
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Aug 28, 2015 08:10
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ElMaligno posted:He had an extremely british breakdown and asked her daughter to stop wearing her mothers's makeup and to cut her hair short so she looks less like her mother. He didn't tell her to cut her hair.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:11
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Lurdiak posted:I knew it, it wasn't because the court "wouldn't allow" him to not be a huge jerk to her. He was just continuing to gently caress up. Thanks for the update.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:12
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Lurdiak posted:I knew it, it wasn't because the court "wouldn't allow" him to not be a huge jerk to her. He was just continuing to gently caress up. I don't know how your reading comprehension is so bad, but here we are.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:13
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Captain Oblivious posted:Thanks for the update. Sorry for reacting to the update. akulanization posted:I don't know how your reading comprehension is so bad, but here we are. Posters theorized the reason he was so cold to Annie was because he didn't want to arouse the Court's suspicion because they were pulling all the strings. Now we know this is not the case. What exactly am I getting wrong? Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 08:13
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GodFish posted:He didn't tell her to cut her hair. Well poo poo now I remember what happen and I fell dumb as gently caress.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:15
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None of this changes my outlook that Anthony is still a lovely, neglectful father who let his pursuit of his dead wife get in the way of caring for his live daughter. All it confirms is that he wasn't actively malicious. Just passively malicious.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:21
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You're still doing it Tony. You're doing it right now.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:22
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JT Jag posted:None of this changes my outlook that Anthony is still a lovely, neglectful father who let his pursuit of his dead wife get in the way of caring for his live daughter. All it confirms is that he wasn't actively malicious. Just passively malicious. Yeah, that's what I've been saying. Apparently that makes me a "hater" and bad at reading.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:22
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Lurdiak posted:Posters theorized the reason he was so cold to Annie was because he didn't want to arouse the Court's suspicion because they were pulling all the strings. Now we know this is not the case. What exactly am I getting wrong? He was so cold to Annie because he made a deal in what he genuinely believes to be her best interest that required that he do all the things he did to her (except the makeup probably), and he did it without emotion because he was on the verge of a meltdown; a meltdown he is having right now in front of his oldest friend. I don't get how this vindicates your position or invalidates theirs, he acted the way he did because the court threatened her. He had to take away Renard, get her to step down as the forrest medium, and make her repeat the previous grade. That was the deal to keep her safe and he had to hold up his end or she would suffer the consequences for his failure, again. Or at least I'm pretty sure that's how he sees it.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:24
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This arch is about a man who feels he failed as a husband, which fed into him failing as a father. Failure that is found in lack of communication. I feel the pain from both sides, and I am a fan of Tony, but man. He has hosed up, real bad. It reminds me of the day that my father came home from being out of town. My dad went out of town a lot. He is a pharmacist with his doctorates and was hired by multiple pharma groups and hospitals to teach surgeons and hospital staff how to use drugs. It was a Friday and he came home, I can still smell the gumbo that my mom had on the stove, as I played in the back of our home under the orange tree because she left the windows to the kitchen open. He had me and my two younger siblings join him and my mom at the table. Ill never forget the first time I saw a grown man, much less my father, cry. He hosed up, he hosed up big. He cheated on my mom, and the way it worked out, mom would have never known. But we didn't know that in this instance, nor is it redeeming that he told us of his own free will. They are still together today, after years of therapy and some cancer and a few other terrible things. Tony is a god drat idiot, but he is not a maligned evil monster. Nobody wants to be a bad person. Sometimes we just are.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:25
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, that's what I've been saying. Apparently that makes me a "hater" and bad at reading. Many or most posters I am aware of believe that Anthony does harm in spite of his best intentions. What they don't do is pursue proving this to everyone in the thread with a fervor that borders on deeply concerning for pages and pages and pages and pages.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:26
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Captain Oblivious posted:Many or most posters I am aware of believe that Anthony does harm in spite of his best intentions. Are we reading the same thread?
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Aug 28, 2015 08:27
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Never attribute to malice what can be explained by Tony.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:28
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Lurdiak posted:Posters theorized the reason he was so cold to Annie was because he didn't want to arouse the Court's suspicion because they were pulling all the strings. Now we know this is not the case. What exactly am I getting wrong? Well SPECIFICALLY people were theorizing the reason he didn't tell her the court was pulling the strings was because he thought they'd react badly to her knowing they were pulling the strings. Everything else he did was incidental to this PARTICULAR Anthony Carver Debate. And strictly speaking that still isn't out of the picture.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:29
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Gee it's almost people do bad things for good reasons sometimes or even have complex motives, desires and flaws or EVEN - dare we to dream of such - that people who do bad things can still be sympathized with But naw you're right gently caress Tony forever because he made some mistakes like literally every other human being on the planet.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:31
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JT Jag posted:None of this changes my outlook that Anthony is still a lovely, neglectful father who let his pursuit of his dead wife get in the way of caring for his live daughter. All it confirms is that he wasn't actively malicious. Just passively malicious. Basically where I am. He has sympathetic motivations but he still hosed up horribly and hurt his daughter a lot. And he realizes this. Arthur Crackpot posted:Gee it's almost people do bad things for good reasons sometimes You can sympathize with someone and still think they're a fuckup, a bad person, or even an overall negative influence on everyone around them. That Tony is crying over how he humiliated and hurt his daughter doesn't erase the fact that he, you know, humiliated and hurt his daughter, to the point that she had a breakdown or two of her own. Basically, he's a tragic figure and I feel bad for him, but he's still a fuckup and the "Tony did nothing wrong" posts got old more than ten pages ago. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 08:31
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Arthur Crackpot posted:Gee it's almost people do bad things for good reasons sometimes You seem really upset that I have a different opinion than you about a character that has sympathetic and damning traits.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:33
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Secret Spoon posted:This arch is about a man who feels he failed as a husband, which fed into him failing as a father. Failure that is found in lack of communication. I feel the pain from both sides, and I am a fan of Tony, but man. He has hosed up, real bad. I'm pretty sure that he viewed himself as a failure as both a husband and a father when Surma died. Like he straight up says he doesn't understand how Annie would feel anything but hate for him because he seems to believe that he as good as killed her mother himself. Tony's obviously not a good parent, but when people say things like this: JT Jag posted:None of this changes my outlook that Anthony is still a lovely, neglectful father who let his pursuit of his dead wife get in the way of caring for his live daughter. All it confirms is that he wasn't actively malicious. Just passively malicious. Edit: You guys know that malice implies intent to do harm right? It's not a word that applies to Tony and the phrase "passively malicious" makes no sense in this context. akulanization fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 08:33
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akulanization posted:I'm pretty sure that he viewed himself as a failure as both a husband and a father when Surma died. Like he straight up says he doesn't understand how Annie would feel anything but hate for him because he seems to believe that he as good as killed her mother himself. Tony's obviously not a good parent, but when people say things like this: Malicious isn't really the word I'd have chosen, but humiliating his daughter in front of an entire class of her peers is pretty malicious.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:36
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, that's what I've been saying. Apparently that makes me a "hater" and bad at reading. Oh my god shut the gently caress up.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:36
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akulanization posted:I'm pretty sure that he viewed himself as a failure as both a husband and a father when Surma died. Like he straight up says he doesn't understand how Annie would feel anything but hate for him because he seems to believe that he as good as killed her mother himself. Tony's obviously not a good parent, but when people say things like this: You understand full well what people mean and are just being a pedantic jackass now. I mean, really, improper word choice aside it's pretty clear what that post is actually saying, and given your own posts I'm pretty sure you know what it means too.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:37
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akulanization posted:Edit: You guys know that malice implies intent to do harm right? It's not a word that applies to Tony and the phrase "passively malicious" makes no sense in this context. SHISHKABOB posted:Oh my god shut the gently caress up.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:38
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Aug 28, 2015 08:39
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SHISHKABOB posted:Oh my god shut the gently caress up. That's never going to happen.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:40
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akulanization posted:I'm pretty sure that he viewed himself as a failure as both a husband and a father when Surma died. Like he straight up says he doesn't understand how Annie would feel anything but hate for him because he seems to believe that he as good as killed her mother himself. Agreed, in fact, if I posted any more than this we would be shouldering each-other to see who agrees the most.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:41
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Lurdiak posted:That's never going to happen.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:42
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