|
It’s pretty good IMO (watch in HDR if you can), but takes significant structural liberties with the plot. Morgan was fine with it, and so am I, but you’ll definitely notice if you have read the book.
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 16:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 18:04 |
|
|
My friend and I both kickstarted the second edition. It’s had a lot of delays and changeover with artists and advertising for new writers on the KS page. Do people have many worries about it coming out, or does it still seem solid?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2018 04:36
|
|
|
Pretty much guaranteed
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2018 05:36
|
|
|
If not and Rob Boyle suffers some catastrophe, keep playing first edition.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2018 05:37
|
|
|
I just got back from watching the film Annihilation and there's a few scenes in it that look like they could be the result of TITAN tech in one way or another.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2018 07:07
|
|
|
fr0id posted:My friend and I both kickstarted the second edition. It’s had a lot of delays and changeover with artists and advertising for new writers on the KS page. Do people have many worries about it coming out, or does it still seem solid? Delays happen all the time in Kickstarters, the authors are alive and active on social media etc., there's absolutely zero chance of EP2e not coming out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2018 10:22
|
|
|
fr0id posted:My friend and I both kickstarted the second edition. It’s had a lot of delays and changeover with artists and advertising for new writers on the KS page. Do people have many worries about it coming out, or does it still seem solid? They've had a bunch of problems doing everything that isn't just putting the rules down on paper. They are reliably late with pretty much everything they do. I don't think they've abandoned anything yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 22:47
|
|
|
wrong way posted:They've had a bunch of problems doing everything that isn't just putting the rules down on paper. They are reliably late with pretty much everything they do. I don't think they've abandoned anything yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2018 16:13
|
|
|
The 2e playtest is available for free on DriveThruRPG if you are interesting in trying to use those systems now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2018 14:53
|
|
|
Reading the 2E QuickStart, and it says that a critical hit will halve the defender’s DR or double the attack’s DV. How do you decide which? Unless I’m missing something, they can give quite different results.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2018 02:31
|
|
|
I believe it's the attacker's choice as to which effect applies.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2018 14:05
|
|
|
OK. I wonder why they added complexity by having both choices. It’s already seeming pretty fiddly!
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2018 14:35
|
|
|
Last time I looked the playtest had like 2 pages of rules on walking and running, I think the game is going to stay pretty fiddly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2018 15:43
|
|
|
Haven’t read the 2e rules , but if weapons are similar to 1e, it’ll change what’s the best choice. You get better results doubling a plasma rifles dv, while reducing armor for your laser pistol is the better choice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2018 16:16
|
|
|
Oh sure, I get that it can make a difference. It just doesn’t seem an important enough difference to slow down combat by making people do the math twice and decide.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2018 16:36
|
|
|
”Using the Mesh” posted:ONLINE RESEARCH Most of that stuff seems pretty simple to be put behind a Research roll. Like, my 10 year old can search for maps, weather, blog posts, directions, and so forth. I don’t see what the real-time translation part is about either: are you researching a piece of tech to do it each time, instead of just using the same one? Is it supposed to be harder to get stuff out of the Mesh than out of Alexa? (Is the last bullet what they mean by “scanning a network”?)
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
Wait, can we not play Jovians in 2e? I was checking the playtest documents and none of the backgrounds work for Jovians. They all assume you're a transhumanist.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 02:21
|
|
|
Well it's still playtest material so there's bound to be gaps and omissions in content. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jovians are marked more as an antagonist faction instead of a playable one though, the writers have never really liked them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 02:33
|
|
|
Due to wanting to disassociate the game with fascists in general, I believe that they went out of their way to not necessarily disallow but rather not have support for playing as Jovians or Ultimates.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 02:33
|
|
|
Mighty Dicktron posted:Due to wanting to disassociate the game with fascists in general, I believe that they went out of their way to not necessarily disallow but rather not have support for playing as Jovians or Ultimates. That's still really dumb.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 02:39
|
|
|
Mighty Dicktron posted:Due to wanting to disassociate the game with fascists in general, I believe that they went out of their way to not necessarily disallow but rather not have support for playing as Jovians or Ultimates. But the jovians are only fascists because the authors can't accept some people might have issues with transhumanism especially after it destroyed the entire planet so they just demonize the gently caress out of them and made them super fascists so that no one would ever like them. It's like they couldn't accept that reasonable counter arguments could exist so they just went and straw man the opposition. Like, transhumanism is kind of a scary concept. You're turning someone's mind into software that can be copied and replicated and exceed human limits. We already saw from the fall what can happen as a result of this. It should be totally fine to you have a faction that sees fault in Blind Faith in that science.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 05:09
|
|
|
One of the flaws of transhumanism fanboys (as opposed to the people really examining the philosophical underpinnings of it) is that they tend to overlook the distinct possibility that there might be something in the meat that, throwing out, ruins everything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 05:59
|
|
|
Covok posted:But the jovians are only fascists because the authors can't accept some people might have issues with transhumanism especially after it destroyed the entire planet so they just demonize the gently caress out of them and made them super fascists so that no one would ever like them. It's like they couldn't accept that reasonable counter arguments could exist so they just went and straw man the opposition. Like, transhumanism is kind of a scary concept. You're turning someone's mind into software that can be copied and replicated and exceed human limits. We already saw from the fall what can happen as a result of this. It should be totally fine to you have a faction that sees fault in Blind Faith in that science. I've always wanted run the Jovians as democracy fanatics, that all this transhuman stuff has the possibility of being abused to where human freedoms and concepts like liberty and egalitarianism are in danger if not regulated. Think the stuff like Cambridge Analytics and Internet Research Agency, but extrapolate that to the point where they can do that influence you, directly, to your mind and body, like some dark episode of Black Mirror. I think the existence of the Freeman morph, a morph designed for obedience and subservience, should tell you that transhuman technology doesn't have the best intentions for everyone in mind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 07:13
|
|
|
Just look to China for what is becoming of the 'Reputation Economy' when put into practice. Your downvotes, socially, impact your credit score and your ability to physically move freely within society itself. (If enough people simply don't like you, you suddenly find youself on a 'no public transit' list and your credit cards eat your lunch.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 08:10
|
|
|
Yeah, I never felt the writers were fair to the Jovians. They are written as self-destructively dumb, which doesn't even make sense if you want to make them one of the major players (much more antagonists) in the setting. They are essentially a Tumblr charicature of North American fundamentalists. For the Jovians in my games I made their ideological core be "It's alright to be human", which is the kind of idea that would hold traction with the people left at the margins of transhumanism. Not everyone can afford all the glitz mods and every technological and social development inevitably leaves people behind. It feels like a logical result of their ideology, but it's a line the writters clearly don't want to cross, because it would mean the bioconservatives are the ones standing up for the little guys. The image of them living in metal boxes around Jupiter where everyone is dying from radiation is just stupid. Again, someone who has the means to colonize moons is not going to disregard gene-therapy that would make their people impervious to radiation. So I'd have their line for biomods be the point where you stop looking human, since it's partly a passion thing, but as long as you are doing it to your own flesh and blood body, it is acceptable, to a certain degree. They still nurture reactionary feelings towards Uplifts as a breach of natural order and are extremely opposed to full AI's, specially because humanity lost Earth because of AI's, so there is a very reasonable concern about not wanting it to happen ever again. And of course, they are 100% against reesleving and forking and all that, if you're not longer in your own meat brain they don't acknowledge you as you. I mean, it's essentially "Guys, planet loving Earth is gone because of this technology, maybe we should be careful or something?". ZearothK fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Mar 25, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 11:28
|
|
|
ZearothK posted:I mean, it's essentially "Guys, planet loving Earth is gone because of this technology, maybe we should be careful or something?". I do like more nuance in my factions, but isn't the intended gamestate supposed to be about 10 years after the fall? For a relatively low tech group to establish multiple colonies around Jupiter in response to the Holy Fuckery of the Fall would require a willingness to employ major fabrication techs, and for a decent population you're talking about ego forking and cloning production. I could see a major sociological withdraw from advanced tech in response, but they kinda had to be in place during all the craziness, right? Wait, Chuck's Eclipse Phase Wiki is still up. So, if I'm reading this right, the Jovian's are the shell shocked refugees from Earth and elsewhere stuffed into bombed outposts intended for smaller populations and lead by the surviving leadership of pre-fall Earth... which were notoriously corrupt. So opportunists leading the population that lived through Seri becoming Shodan. I can't speak to fairness, but it does seem like the Jovian over-focus on security vs the health of its citizens while crowing about patriotism is a reasonable response to the fall. I mean Patriot Act and 911, right? [Editry: URL tags are hard.] Zalabar fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Mar 25, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 13:49
|
|
|
The Jovians could use more nuance, yea, but they're not just a bunch of conscientious objectors to transhumanism. They're an extremist security state that tries to compensate for their lack of civic ability by telling everyone 'actually this is for your own good, citizens'. Also, yea, they're lead almost entirely by fre-fall Earth leadership, which were at best corrupt idiots and at worst actual fascists. I'd like to see an ability to play one, and they need a bit of nuance in that there ARE valid reasons to question transhumanist values post-fall, but Jovians are an explicitly antagonistic faction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 15:01
|
|
|
Yes, that's what the jovians are. But, the fact that the only faction that is anti transhuman and the only faction that actually goes " maybe there should be limits" is played up as cartoon villains, is the problem. If there was another faction with more nuance, then sure you can have the jovians as they are. The fact that the only faction the book, to my memory, that questions transhumanism as practice at all are played up is overly dumb villains is just kind of limiting. For a book that tries to, on the surface, bring up a lot of questions about self and nature and even try to be a bit horrific about it, going that route kind of limits you. It almost feels like the writers heard bio conservative, and only heard conservative. Conservative can mean a lot of things. Being an environmentalist makes you environmentally conservative, even though that's generally considered a liberal position. Being a conservative doesn't mean you have to be an American Fundamentalist or Trumpist or whatever. As a matter of fact, a lot of actual transhumanists in the real world try to make the point that if the technology ever becomes real they actually should respect people who opted out of it because forcing it on them would be cruel and deny them their rights. I don't know. It just feels like it hurts your ability to GM and play out one of the conflicts of the story which is supposed to be the dangers of transhumanism when game is constantly making questioning these things making you like an idiot or a fascist.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 15:42
|
|
|
Yea there should for sure be other factions who are various shades of 'maybe transhumanism was a mistake though'. It is pretty absurd it's either 'whoo put my brain in a robot squid' or 'IF YOU GET A PROSTHETIC I'LL loving SHOOT YOU'
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 15:49
|
|
|
Let's be fair, it's not like people getting tails caused the fall. Plenty of factions are placing restrictions on Titan-scale tech (while researching it in secret, of course). The jovians aren't just reacting to the Fall, they're using it as an excuse to roll back a whole raft of social changes their leadership was opposed to. The core system has plenty of societies trying to pump the brakes and put technology back in the bottle - Jovians are going far further than that. E: and, what counts as transhumanism? Medichines? Cosmetic surgery? Siri? Gender reassignment? Prosthetics curing genetic diseases? There isn't one big core tech that was a mistake. Flavivirus fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Mar 25, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 15:50
|
|
|
Flavivirus posted:Let's be fair, it's not like people getting tails caused the fall. Plenty of factions are placing restrictions on Titan-scale tech (while researching it in secret, of course). The jovians aren't just reacting to the Fall, they're using it as an excuse to roll back a whole raft of social changes their leadership was opposed to. I think that's exactly why we need a more diverse bio-conservative viewpoint though. Like, yea, that should be something the players deal with, what IS the 'line'? I think most groups would agree 'we cured a crippling genetic disease with gene therapy and a prosthetic' is fine but yea maybe there's a valid case for on demand cosmetic surgery and giving your life over to a Siri like AI being remnants of the same culture that led to the fall, and lumping those guys in with 'advanced medicine is the devil' is a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 15:59
|
|
|
There's also the reality that this technology is used for a lot of evil. We're talking about the not in insignificant chance that your Consciousness gets duplicated the next time you go on the internet and sold into slavery. That they make morphs specifically to make humans into slaves. That there is a faction that purposely makes themselves into monsters to hunt other people down for fun. There is a legitimate question of maybe reigning this in. Let me be clear here, I think the confusion and disagreement comes from a difference in Viewpoint. I think the writers view transhumanism as a metaphor for oppress social groups, which is why the jovians are portrayed as American conservatives. But I don't think that metaphor works. Do you know what metaphor think works better? Guns. Transhumanism feels like gun rights. It feels like a dangerous technology that is taken many lives and despite every atrocity it causes we get the same tired old speeches about how restricting it in anyway would infringe on our rights, as we quietly sweep away the corpses to be forgotten. And, of course, the people who are pro-gun view any attempt to restrict them as an all-or-nothing deal and don't see that there could be steps. I also kind of want to make this clear because I don't want anyone to think that I'm pro-fascist. It's just that this metaphor, to me, feels more like a gun rights metaphor and I'm pro-gun-control and you can see where this is going.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 16:06
|
|
|
Yea it's the same reason that as much as I love X-Men I also really hate it as a 'this is JUST like oppressed minorities' thing because, ya know, those guys can blow up reality and kill people by touching them and us LGBT people just want to not get beat to death for coming out. Obviously the writers have their hearts in the right place, and they're hardly the first people to do this, but yea I'm kinda sick of the trope of 'either you're down for EVERYTHING transhuman or you're basically a bible thumping paleo-con'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 16:19
|
|
|
Covok posted:Do you know what metaphor think works better? Guns. Transhumanism feels like gun rights. It feels like a dangerous technology that is taken many lives and despite every atrocity it causes we get the same tired old speeches about how restricting it in anyway would infringe on our rights, as we quietly sweep away the corpses to be forgotten. Actually, that's a good metaphor. You even have the "defending democratic society" angle with it to: there's people who view guns, especially open carry advocates, as a right to intimidate the political system. We can't have people offing voters and elected representatives every time there's a political disagreement for our democracy to work. And if there wasn't restrictions, you'd have guys buying heavy weapons that could actually do some large scale damage. Covok posted:I also kind of want to make this clear because I don't want anyone to think that I'm pro-fascist. It's just that this metaphor, to me, feels more like a gun rights metaphor and I'm pro-gun-control and you can see where this is going. I've been saying for years that the X-Men and the related properties should be viewed not as minority or queer analogues, but as open carry gun right people, so I know where you're coming from. edit: sexpig by night posted:Yea it's the same reason that as much as I love X-Men I also really hate it as a 'this is JUST like oppressed minorities' thing because, ya know, those guys can blow up reality and kill people by touching them and us LGBT people just want to not get beat to death for coming out. Haha, I no longer feel like I'm alone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 16:22
|
|
|
It's like that joke rewriting that scene from the second X-Men movie where Rogue wants to cure her 'can't touch someone ever or they will literally die' mutation and Storm, a literal divine figure in her homeland with the power to call down the weather at her will, says 'no, you're perfect as is'. "Boy I wish I could get rid of these chainsaw hands," said Chainsaw Hands after carving yet another innocent person up. "Nonsense," said Johnny Five Dicks, "We're all equally perfect as is." Like, a lot of EP and other transhumanist media focuses on the cool augmented people sleeving into functional and unique bodies. Which, yea, no poo poo, no one wants to read fifty pages of 'the life of a mining drone', but it does paint a rather rosy picture in a setting where horror and oppression is meant to be a common thread. It's easy for a story about five bio-augmented firewall workers to be pro-transhumanist, but there's also a poo poo load of guys in debt trying to pay off their lovely miner-bots that are making their bosses wealthy enough to afford more vat grown organs to keep them immortal and all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:It's like that joke rewriting that scene from the second X-Men movie where Rogue wants to cure her 'can't touch someone ever or they will literally die' mutation and Storm, a literal divine figure in her homeland with the power to call down the weather at her will, says 'no, you're perfect as is'. Yeah, how about we talk about the literal wage slavery where people are forced to buy off the cost of their own bodies. Like, not eating or sleeping, but robot bodies they're forced to have.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
Covok posted:It almost feels like the writers heard bio conservative, and only heard conservative. It seems like some of the EP writers' best work is accidental, sometimes. For instance, the oligarch sample character they cooked up who has grown so tired and been drawn so thin over their extended life that, in spite of being a bio conservative, is sleeved into a neotenic body because they need ANYTHING to try and keep the world looking fresh to them. Or Momo von Satan being interpreted as someone trying to call out that the Titanian Commonwealth is as full of old world assholes being old world assholes as the Jovan Republic. Covok posted:Yeah, how about we talk about the literal wage slavery where people are forced to buy off the cost of their own bodies. Like, not eating or sleeping, but robot bodies they're forced to have. I love how the story itself just kind of shrugs at this sort of thing as a part of the system. (Wow, gee, that's too bad, but oh well!) But the Jovans are Double Hitler.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 17:49
|
|
|
I mean, also remember, Eclipse Phase is about the remains of humanity. If you were against body swapping and uploading yourself...you probably didn't make it off Earth. The Fall ensures the types of humans left is not a massive list. EDIT: It's also always been pretty upfront about transhumanism being a source of horror. I really don't get the thought of EP being about cool action heroes not worrying about politics. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 25, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I mean, also remember, Eclipse Phase is about the remains of humanity. If you were against body swapping and uploading yourself...you probably didn't make it off Earth. The Fall ensures the types of humans left is not a massive list. So, Eclipse Phase is a world populated by survivalist NRA goons being allowed to define the status quo,in a sense then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 21:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 18:04 |
|
|
I kinda see the jovians as Alpha Complex from Paranoia. And yes. This is a horror game, not a utopian game. There are no good guy factions. The books are clearly written from a pro transhumanist stance and the anti transhumans would therefore be framed as antagonists.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2018 22:25
|
|