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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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Alternately...with anti tank missiles?

Which they'll need to go against Patton and his many different tank variants.

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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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standard.deviant posted:

I'm sure the AC-47 and AC-130 don't count for :reasons: too.

Not to butt in, but think the reason they "don't count" is that they started life as cargo planes before being converted to ground support work.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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grover posted:

No targets near me. So 80s me might actually have survived a nuclear war long enough to die of starvation/disease/whatever. :woop:



The blobs on the east coast I can understand, but what's around the black blobs in North Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming/Nebraska/Colorado?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Naramyth posted:

The North Dakota blob is because of the Minot AFB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minot_Air_Force_Base

Ah, that link gave the answer! Those are where the Air Force units in charge of ICBM units might be hiding. Thanks!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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mlmp08 posted:

What are you referring to?

The Navy's explanation that a "gay" saboteur stuck a detonator in the powder which caused the explosion, I think.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Are those Czech Republic roundels on the aircraft, or am I just being confused by the colors?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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I knew I was having a brainfart there, durrr :suicide:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Just for clarity's sake, what does "Single Battle Concept" entail? From mlmp08's explanation, it sounds like it means "there is no operational distinction between front line, rear, and reserves/reinforcements", but how is that different from something like, say, Airland Battle (which proposes that the front line and the reserves must be attacked/disrupted simultaneously?) or Soviet Deep Battle (which...also seems to attack everything simultaneously, or at least as part of the same plan)?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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ArchangeI posted:

The story goes that she wanted to launch a single, inert Polaris at Buenos Aires with a note saying "Next one is live".

That sounds...dangerous. Like, in the "oh god, UK just fired the first shot of WWIII, commence counterattack operations! Fire back!" sense.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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mlmp08 posted:

It would be a lot more informative if lasers were literally the next step instead of land-based aim-9s, AMRAAMS in some cases, or other systems.

That's the MIM-72 Chaparral, right? Will we be seeing that come back into US service, then? (Honest question.)

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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I miss airplane chat :(

SO! I brought this up in the Aeronautical Insanity thread after they turned again to how much the F-35 program is...not going well: I asked whether, given the apparent success of the F-15 pure air superiority -> F-15E strike fighter and F-16 cheap pure day fighter -> F-16 cheap bomb truck conversions, it would have been better, at least from the US perspective, to focus entirely on the F-22 airframe and retrofit advanced air-to-ground improvements on it later. Would this be a bad idea?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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iyaayas01 posted:

[:what:: "Your jet is overly vulnerable to enemy fire.
:mil101:: "Good thing we just won't get shot! :fsmug:"

That rates right up there with "DAS will render maneuvering irrelevant."

e:


Like I said over there, the F-22 already has most of the air to ground capability that's necessary for its mission as a night 0 door kicker. Retrofitting on bomb truck capability to that platform would be stupid because even with the total planned number of 381 they were going to be precious resources that needed to be husbanded carefully for conventional deterrence and high end use, not have hours flown off of them dropping JDAMs over Bumfuckistan. The solution you're looking for would've been to buy enough F-22s to be our high end "break glass in case of China" force and get new build bomb trucks along the lines of Block 60 F-16s or Super Bugs or something. Maybe buy some F-15SEs to provide a program as an affordable LO-ish option for our allies who want something more than upgraded F-16s.

It kinda also sounds like the "missiles make guns obsolete" thing from sixty years ago or so. I wonder if there's a similar thought process going on for "stealth makes *X* obsolete"?

And, yeah, I guess that would be a better air doctrine. F-15s and F-16s are cool too.

If I might ask, the AI thread mentioned that the F-35 was supposed to be the cheaper, lighter, exportable counterpart to the F-22. Obviously that hasn't been the case, but if we were going for a sort of F-4 / F-5 thing for the new century, how should the F-35 program have been run from day one?

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 24, 2014

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Pffft, you can shoot down a PAK-FA with an F6F if you REALLY feel like it. And that's after you shoot down a trio of Su-47s and weirdo experimental bombers while you're there.

(Does Ace Combat Cross Rumble/Assault Horizon Legacy count?)

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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TheFluff posted:










Double delta is the best delta. :colbert:

Drakens are cool planes, yeah. Does anybody still fly them, as, I dunno, trainers, airshow craft, something?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Psion posted:

If you'll refer to Proposal A12347, mounting anti-UAV weapons on an M113, I believe you'll find the most tactically superior option includes

...resurrecting PIVADS! Combat Reform now! :circlefap:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Well, the Bradley turned out...usable in the end, right? Although I think I've heard it's used more in the "ATGM Carrier" role than the "IFV/Cavalry Scout Vehicle" role?

vvvvvv Wait, what?! That sounds like some kind of conspiracy thriller airplane novel!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Mr. Funny Pants posted:

It was a Stanley Kubrick movie, dude was loving obsessed about the details. Are you implying that Slim's inventory wasn't real?

Why the heck would an airman in the middle of nowhere need prophylactics? :v:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Party Plane Jones posted:

30 years ago the Mig-21 was still a world class plane. Now in an era of BVR missiles and AWACS they're sort of screwed facing anything post F-16. They're maneuverable as all hell but have a tiny gas tank so there is maybe 30 minutes of flight time before they have to pull back. They can't easily stick a giant amount of missiles on them like US fighters can, the radar is hampered by their tiny nosecone space, and the missiles they can carry are about the equivalent of 1980s US inventory. The 21 is good if you're facing the Air Force of Costa Rica or Liberia but not for much else thee days.

Aren't MiG-21 variants (21-93, LanceR, stuff like that) still in use as front line fighters in some countries? Granted, Eastern Europe and India may not be the standard of air forces.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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The F-35 has to be one of the very few aircraft whose success makes me sad. I saw an Australian newspaper article talking about the RAAF's future acquisition of the F-35 with pride, and comparing it to the "it's practically a strategic bomber!" (my thoughts, not theirs) F-111 with a straight face. It's like, come on! Eagles and Falcons are sleeker, Gripens and Hornets are cuter, all of the above are cheaper and probably work better at the moment, get those instead! :smith:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Hey, I remember the ROKAF thing! They had an initial bid submission last year where a bunch of jets showed up, and the officers in charge of the committee picked the F-15SE over the competitors, including the F-35, because it was cheaper and played well with the F-15Ks they already had. Then the government went all

:downs: "The F-15SE is old hat with new makeup, we need a FIFTH-GENERATION FIGHTER for a NEW GENERATION :hurr:!"

and scrubbed the contract entirely. Then they re-released it with a requirements list that I think straight-up had "must be FIFTH-GENERATION" and the F-35 was the only on the block for that.

I think that's when I went from "The F-35 could probably be done better, right?" to "Seriously, what the gently caress, F-35 program?!" It just makes me :qq:. If I ever make a game about air combat in the modern jet age, the F-35 is going to be the equivalent of stuff like the MiG-21 in Ace Combat: used mostly by the enemy and shot down in droves!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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StandardVC10 posted:

It's a pipedream most of the time but ever since it blew my eardrums out while I was visiting the Paris Air Show last year the Rafale is my sentimental favorite for every fighter competition.

But Dassault's representative is so whiny! I'll take the Gripen, the Gripen is cuter and cooler.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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So the Soviets used their top-of-the-line intelligence/spy ship to...bum pay-by-channel satellite TV? Or was that just a test for ACTUAL satcom monitoring capabilities?

EDIT: Oh, drat. Now I get it, it's a joke.

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Apr 1, 2014

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Mortabis posted:

Happy April Fools Day, Davin.

Shut up, it's still March 31st where I live, okay?! :smithcloud:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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priznat posted:

I'm pretty sure that is where they churn the ice cream for the crew.

Crew needs lots of ice cream.

I thought that was submarines?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Blistex posted:

I can't wait until a South Korean F-35 gets shot down by a Nork Mig-21's (1967 vintage) K-13 over international waters and everyone looks towards Lockmart and says, "fith generation?".

It's called Ace Combat, I think.

Although, yeah, if the F-35 gets its tail whacked by fighters that it's supposed to be inferior to, somebody's going to have a lot of explaining to do.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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What's the thread's opinion on the Scorpion? I haven't seen any performance testing, but the last time I remember a company privately funded a fighter jet venture like this was the F-20 Tigershark, and that had a sad ending (for the F-20, anyway).

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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mlmp08 posted:

Generally speaking, there is a list of names for the various types of mission. So maybe there are 25 tanker callsigns, 50 CAP callsigns, 50 CAS callsigns, etc. As missions go out each day, the next callsign in line is used for that flight. A name is not reusable until the previous use of that name has landed and ended mission. In this way you might have a "Knight" flight every day, but have it be a different set of aircraft and pilots each time. Using actual callsigns such that you can identify which pilot it is and what kind of plane that pilot flies is bad OPSEC.

Within flights, the wingmen use the same prefix name, but different numbers. Like Knight 61, Knight 62, Knight 63, Knight 64 for a division of aircraft within Knight flight. All of this information, plus a hell of a lot more, is published in a daily Air Tasking Order (ATO). That way when you see a given IFF response, callsign, whatever, you can use the ATO to find out what the flight's mission is, where they are expected to go, etc. Actual USAF guys feel free to correct me, but I don't think I hosed anything up, because I'm leaving out the finer details.

So Ace Combat lied to me?! :qq:

But if certain callsigns are always associated with, e.g., a strike mission, wouldn't that also compromise OPSEC? Or is the list of the "25 tanker callsigns, 50 CAP callsigns, 50 CAS callsigns, etc." re-randomized every day?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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In the helicopter world, don't they all use S-70 derivatives too (Blackhawk, Seahawk, etc.)?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Godholio posted:

Goddamn, Douhet. "First we'll drop incendiaries to start fires in the cities. Then, as the first responders react, we'll drop high explosives to kill them all and turn all the stone construction that survived the fire into rubble. Then we'll drop gas to kill anyone hiding/surviving in the rubble."

I guess Douhet was stuck on the "literally ANYTHING is better than trench warfare" bit that (by my understanding) informed strategic bombing as a whole?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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LostCosmonaut posted:

If we're talking about overrated German weapon systems, one would be remiss if they did not mention the V2 PzKpfw VI.

Fixed it for you. Stupid Tiger fanboys.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Uh...is there a joke I'm missing or should that be Kanonenjagnpanzer?

EDIT: welp! Nevermind then!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Speaking of the Bradley, what, if anything, did the M2A1 and up versions do to...if not "fix" then cut down on the silliness of the original boondoggle? Or is the whole line compromised and therefore we should move to Strykers as soon as production permits?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Aren't AT4s/M136s a Swedish design? And we use a bunch of FN machine guns too, right?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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So how come no one is calling for expanded PGM stockpiles/"making more of the weapons we've already got" or whatever if all signs point to "what we have reserved right now won't last us a week"?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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bewbies posted:

WE ARE

But seriously though we're in bad shape with this stuff. It just got a whole lot worse now that our entire stockpile of MRLs is useless (this is a good thing, but it still sucks).

Literally every experiment/wargame I've been a part of over the last few years basically turns on munition expenditure, and this goes for both sides. This is leading to all kinds of amusing sub-strategies like "opponent munition depletion" and so on where you do weird things like fly around on the edge of opponent's airspace and try to get them to shoot at you, or present juicy surface targets to try and get them to shoot BMs.

others posted:

It's not politically viable.

Huh. And here I thought "expand PGM manufacturing" would be an easier sell than "make a new fighter/destroyer/whatever that might blow up in your face when deployed." Especially in tricky economic times, and especially when you've seen the results firsthand. You'd think something like (for example) Odyssey Dawn would have told the British military establishment to stop worrying about Astute and whatnot when budget cuts come around not two years later. Talking about "paper tiger risks" and having to go to an ally to bum off their ordnance stocks feels like they should be related somehow.

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Apr 29, 2014

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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While we're on the topic of Canadians, what differences are there between "CF" designs and "F" designs? Like, say, the CF-18 vs. the F/A-18 OG Hornet, or the CF-104 vs. the regular F-104? Is it swapping out the engines and flight computers, just making stuff cold-proof and bilingual, or is there no one schema for differences?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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priznat posted:

Agusta A129:


What are the guys on the landing gear doing here? I'm guessing this isn't a normal mission.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

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Back Hack posted:

You're video lead me to this:

http://youtu.be/ihVszNrz6dQ

It's one of those cheesy CGI proof of concept videos that military defense contractors release to help demonstrate, justify, and/or explain an expansive piece future hardware that usually ends up being too expensive, too complex, or just straight up badly designed. The difference is this one is for an Russian ground attack drone for when they invade the States. :v:

I like the bit at 4:15 or so where the SWORDS drone fires at the Russian drone in the spotlight and the Russian drone pulls a rocket launcher from its rear end and goes "No, gently caress you!"

EDIT: Are all defense tech CGI videos this...toyetic? It feels like it belongs in a bad 1990s commercial. "RC TANK WITH REAL rear end ROCKET ACTION" or something.

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 05:52 on May 5, 2014

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
Do you know who would survive the giant mess after a Cold War style exchange of nukes?

Not goons.

Alternately: "That's not fair. That's not fair at all. There was time now. There was all the time I needed...! That's not fair!"

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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
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He does sound crazy, but I'm still not sure why you would retire an aircraft from active service before its intended replacement is up and running. It seems...weird, from a "I like planes!" perspective anyways.

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