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Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Phanatic posted:

Who probably had the best seat in the house to watch the climax of the battle from, floating in the ocean and periodically diving under to hide from being strafed.

John Thach was flying one of the escort fighters, and said:


The thought of Gay floating there and seeing that beautiful silver waterfall of dive-bombers falling on the carriers like wolves on a herd of sheep gives me the loving chills.

Gotta imagine it was a real change in spirits for him too, to go from getting shot down and seeing everyone else in his wing killed and the Japanese fleet looking invulnerable to watching the dive bombers wreck some serious poo poo.

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Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Myoclonic Jerk posted:

In it, the author said that, even if the US had lost Midway, the war was destined to end in Japanese defeat, just not as quickly. The US advantage in production of hulls and planes was so overwhelming, that the Japanese would have succumbed eventually. The author envisions a northern Pacific route through Canada and Alaska (:psyduck:) to support an invasion of Japan from the north, in which atomic bombs were not used, because production was diverted into building an even larger army and navy. IIRC, the invasion of Japan involved Soviet troops, resulting in a divided Japan and Tokyo, a la Germany.

IIRC most of the US Navy shipbuilding, especially of the large displacement hulls, was limited to the Eastern Seaboard and not the West Coast. If the US Pacific Fleet was crippled and Pearl Harbor isolated, then the IJN could have potentially struck the Panama Canal, resulting in the need for all USN ships to go around South America to get to the Pacific.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

The interwar period is such an amazing story of tank development. All of the crazy things that they tried (Multiple turrets, tiny tanks, huge tanks, etc) and the doctrines that emerged from it. For every good idea there were about three others that made you wonder if they were dropping acid at the time. In some ways it was typical 'planning to fight the last war', but others parts were almost crazy sci-fi stuff.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

One of the goals of the Tet Offensive was to bleed to the Viet Cong dry.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

LP97S posted:

Don't worry, I've been thinking the same thing in past. I'm sure they could make boatloads of cash with broadcasting rights and DVD/online sales of selling a hi-def broadcast.

I really want to see a nuke go off in space. See how close they get to a spherical shape.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Insert name here posted:

You can actually seem him get blown out of the turret at around 13 seconds in. :stonk:

At first I thought he was outside before because there's some movement by the back of the tank before it goes up, but yeah, you definitely see him get blown out of it.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

StandardVC10 posted:

I've heard this story about unmanned B-17s landing almost-safely, but I don't think they were of the flying-bomb variety. A better-sourced example of a post-ejection airplane landing itself can be found here.

I remember a B-17 that made a semi-successful crash landing after all the crew bailed out. There's a picture of it in the background while you see a B-17 divot in the ground in the foreground.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Have there been any TV shows or movies outside of documentaries that have depicted the Battle off Samar? I mean hell, you'd think the events are practically made for TV, but I've never even seen it mentioned outside of a few video games.

The closest I can find is this on Wikipedia:

Wikipedia posted:

While the battle is frequently included in historical accounts of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, the duels between the destroyer and destroyer escorts and Yamato and the Japanese force was the subject of a Dogfights television program "Death of the Japanese Navy"[64] That episode, as well as a History Channel documentary was based on The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, written by James D. Hornfischer.

The book is really good if you've never read it (You should).

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

You're thinking of the Saratoga. She got nuked. The Enterprise was just plain scrapped. Which sucks just as much, really.

Honestly I think scrapping is more insulting. At least a nuke test involves a ship dying to another weapon.

Also the Saratoga took two nukes to kill.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

I can only hope they made a special medal for the guy(s) that thought that up and made them wear it through the rest of their career.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Is Twilight the system that had the dispersion overlays for gunfire? I remember one of those games having them in the back of the book where you would lay it over the appropriate outline and roll the percentage dice to see where your shot went.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Warbadger posted:

TUSK was purchased in the hundreds and was a pretty good upgrade, specifically beefing the poo poo out of side hull protection with ERA and adding a bunch of generally nice things for urban combat (remote control loader gun with thermal sight, IED protection, infantry telephone, slat armor for the rear/engine). At this point TUSK II has also started appearing, including new ERA tiles and extending the ERA protection to the side of the turret. Coincidentally ERA on the side of the turret and hull basically shits all over the areas Russian tankers were taught to shoot at on the Abrams.

It never ceases to amaze me how many times we have to learn this lesson.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

Alcoholism.


Assuming you got into a big conventional conflict, could you even make modern planes and armor fast enough to replace losses?

It's a combination of new production and reserves. It's a lot easier to stockpile new tanks than it is to stockpile new crews. Also if a tank is disabled but not killed then it can possibly be brought back to combat effectiveness (Provided it's recovered, of course).

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Newer Leo's also have the latest 120mm L55 from Rheinmetall, specifically the 2A6 I think.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

There's a DU layer in the later models, starting with later A1s, I believe. It protects the front and front-side aspects on the turret and hull with the Chobham. The rear-sides and rear just has RHA.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Air-launched makes it even easier to attack the top of a tank too.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

That also made it a rather miserable experience during winter if I remember right.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

The British show Top Gear had a bit last series with the TerraMax that was pretty neat.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pl_Pont_Zk

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

That picture makes it look like it has motion-capture balls on the underside.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Percentage over budget, of course.

priznat posted:

B-17 software development was way easier.

If only! That thing barely had any processing power.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

There's also the matter of while they may have been able to keep wartime material production up, the quality of that equipment was going down due to both disruptions and losses to Soviet advances. German metallurgy quality was taking a nose-dive by the end of 44.

Add in the amount of weapons/resources/personnel that were kept in Germany for air defense (including fuel!) then it starts to show more strain.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Also the US has a bad tendency to get involved in Spreading Democracy in places where it's a lot easier to get one's hands on a MANPAD.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

The CIA keeps on stealing control of the ones with missiles.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Any sort of damage to the air frame of a high-performance fighter would be very dangerous. Their skin isn't that thick to begin with and if you distort the way that air flows over it enough then it could possibly tear itself apart. Doubly so if you damage a support structure.

Hell, the pilot(s) may not even know they're being attacked by a laser until things start to fail, if even then.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Dead Reckoning posted:

Really terrible stuff.

I would certainly read more about this as well. It's disgusting how much the rot of terrible but trendy business practices has penetrated into the government/military. You hit the nail square on the head when you said it could be sold to the government even after failing in the private sector. After all ideology triumphs over reality there.

When I heard the entire concept of Just In Time being applied to military logistics early last decade I couldn't believe it. But then they took it a step further with contracted (disposable) supply runners. I mean poo poo, how can you think that is a good idea? How can you not see that people will die if it breaks down at any point?

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jun 24, 2013

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Cyrano4747 posted:

It also rather pointedly ignores the existence of an enemy who is dedicating everything he has towards ensuring that it does break down/get delayed/etc.

That's not a bullet-point on the presentation therefore it's not an actual concern.

Not like these systems work properly without people shooting up your supply lines

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

I suspect that the true replacement for the A-10 will be a UAV. That job is now such a high-risk endeavor that drones will be the only way in the future.

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

There was an effort post a while ago about how the A-10 would not do that well against modern AA. It probably wouldn't hurt to replace it with a cost-effective, multi-role plane.

I don't really see the US getting into a shooting war with anything using a modern AA network. The current 'War on Terror' is pretty biased towards those countries that can't field such a thing.

quote:

Laser VTOL stealth fighter would not be my first choice.

Lasers aren't even that great against ground targets.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

The problem is that the first bit of "A capable, flexible plane that doesn't break the bank." tends to lead into the second bit, the boondoggle.

One-size-fits-all is great on paper, but there's no reason why we don't use specialized airframes for what we need.


vvvv Index funds. Anything else is foolish.

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Aug 21, 2013

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

On the subject of procurement, how badly is our ( :911: ) procurement process messed up by people looking to make a buck? Is it a very serious problem, or is it blown out of proportion?

They are the gears upon which the MIC turns its money-printing press, oiled by congresscritters seeking to get votes by bringing those jobs to their districts.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Snowdens Secret posted:

Seeing as this is the Cold War thread and all, it's worth pointing out that we don't get into fights with people who might give us a rough time by ensuring as few countries as possible think they could give us a rough time. History isn't kind to rich and powerful civilizations that let their defense go to poo poo.

Also procurement programs aren't just about the threats of today, they're about the threats 15-30+ years out. If you think you can accurately predict the geopolitical threats of the 2040s then I hope you're playing the stock markets too.

Definitely true, but as I said before the future of this sort of stuff is going to be UCAVs, especially in a high-loss area like CAS. You might still have piloted planes are interceptors and air-superiority, but for bomb trucks and strike platforms there really isn't any advantage anymore to having people in the sky.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Lemmie tell you about Millennium Challenge 2002...

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

To give the DoD a (very) little bit of slack it seems like the only way the F-35 could be more convoluted is if it was required that every part be made by a different company

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

LP97S posted:

License the Eurofighter and rebuild Skyraiders :freep:

Skyraider UAV.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

You're far too young to be posting on SA, priznat.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

iyaayas01 posted:

Wrong.

I hate the F-35 as much as anyone, but we have painted ourselves into a corner where currently, in the year of our lord 2014, it is the only viable option for USAF tacair recapitalization. Canceling the F-35 is not an option, period. Because the alternative is not to recapitalize, and that is a non-starter. It is callous, and I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, but what poses the bigger threat to the United States: the possibility that in the next Operation Useless Dirt we lose a couple more soldiers because our CAS capability is at a 85% solution instead of a 99% solution, or the possibility that the nation's air arm is unprepared to fight and win a major theater war in 2030?

Because that's the choice we have to make right now regarding the A-10 and fleet recapitalization. The budgetary choices the USAF makes today are going to have ramifications decades down the road.

Killing the F-35 project could have only happened before the first big checks were written. No one wants to be the pariah that'll be blamed for that boondoggle if it was killed. People would scream for someone to blame and no one would care that it was actually the right decision.

Well, a right decision would be to flip off the USMC and say no VTOL silliness, and a further right decision would be to not have a plane be designed to operate off of both the land and carriers be the majority of our combat airframes.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

That was the original idea (claim really), but since you've got different versions for each branch, that's going to cause problems. The Navy has different needs than the Air Force, so either you have things that are superficially similar, or you're going to have a compromise. Have enough compromises and you've got something that's not even a jack-of-all-trades airframe.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Isn't it closer to 2 gens though? At least in the navy with the F-14 and superbug? 1.5?

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Blistex posted:

Now you could say, "the allies had orders of magnitude more resources to waste, so this was a valid strategy", but you also have to look at production numbers in Nazi Germany. By 1945, BF-109 monthly production rates were almost 2x what they were in 1943, and only coming up 3,000 of the 14,000+ made in 1944.

Keep in mind though that production numbers in Nazi Germany were also really screwy because of how their factory production worked. Various things would get (unreasonably) high priority so that increase in production may and probably did come at the cost of something else going down.

And of course German production methods were rather obsolete at the time anyways.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Oh god the 262. At least the 163 had the common decency to blow itself up on the ground every now and then.

The 262 is so incredibly overrated.

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Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Oh god do they ever.

Glorious Invincible KruppStahl!

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