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Help Create the Next Grappling Megathread! Notice this thread is about grappling, not grapplers. If you want to rag on some notable guy being an rear end, go to the Dumb Combat Sports People on Social Media thread.Edit here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LsoUx0i1UnlzgqpNQFV2CehzmR0RlK7IaD_4S58mxY8/edit?usp=sharing Hello, I noticed that, with our new subforum, we could use some threads that cover particular Parts of combat sports. Since I punch like an 8 year old but hugfight like tween, I decided to start a Grappling discussion and appreciation station. I present a basic rundown of grappling styles and a short description of their history. Thanks to dokomoy, whom I shamelessly stole this from, with some small edits and additions. I am typing this during downtime at work, so I apologize for any errors on dates or details since I cannot consult any of my non-internet sources. Grappling 101 quote:KingColliwog posted: Grappling is a group of sports and/or martial arts focused on controlling your opponent using(depending on the rules) a combination of throws, pins, chokes, and joint locks. Grappling has existed probably since Ug figured out he could break Zug's arm to take all his wooly mammoth pelts. The formal history of grappling, like all martial arts, is fairly obscure. The earliest discovered record of a codified, holistic approach to grappling can be found in Indian, with documents from China and Japan closely following. Virtually every culture in the world has some form of wrestling, often passed through oral tradition in societies without written records. Deciphering who taught what to whom and where things were invented is a quagmire and, frankly, I don't think you care if Macedon imported the armbar from The Mughals 3000 years ago. The history of grappling and historic styles are interesting, but readers would probably prefer I stick to modern styles. The Major forms of Modern grappling; Brazilian Jiu Jitsu(sometimes called Gracie Jiu Jitsu) is the art originally developed by the famous Gracie Family based on what they learned from noted Jiujitsu/Judo/ artist Mitsuyo "Count Combat" Maeda. In addition to being one of the primary arts used in MMA, BJJ is also practiced as a sport. BJJ competitions have different rules based on who's holding the tournament but the rules generally are: Matches are timed(time limits vary based on age, rank, and organization)(Time limits are also a somewhat recent phenomenon) Matches can be won either by points or submissions Points are generally awarded for the following(all positions must be held for at least 3 seconds): Takedown, Sweep, Passing the Guard, Knee on Belly, Mount, and Taking the back. BJJ Matches are thought with a gi(No GI matches have slightly different rules, I call them submission grappling but really it's whatever) Some Big name BJJ players who also currently compete in MMA include: Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza, Demian Maia, Ricardo Almeida, BJ Penn, Andre Galvao, Xande Ribeiro, Vitor Ribeiro, Roger Gracie, Jeff Monson, Marcelo Garcie, Marcio "Pe De Pano" Cruz, Fabricio Werdum, Eduardo Telles and Robert Drysdale. Other Popular Jiu Jitsu competitors are: Rubens "Cobrinha" Charles, Marcelo Garcia, Bill Cooper, Jeff Glover, Roberto "Cyborg" Abreu, Lucas Lepri, Saulo & Xande Ribeiro, Roger Gracie, Braulio Estima, as well as many of the guys. Some of the big name former stars of jiu jistu include: Helio, Royler, Royce, Rolls, Renzo and Rickson Gracie, Roberto "Gordo" Correra, Fabio Gurgel, Ricarda De La Riva, Marcio Feitosa, The Machado brothers (Rigan, John Jacque, John, Rodger, Carlos) and others. Submission Grappling is basically the same as BJJ with a few changes: Matches are fought no gi(usually with competitors wearing a rash guard and shorts, sometimes long tight brightly colored pants) Divisions are often broken down by experience instead of belt level Techniques that are generally banned in BJJ are often allowed(heelhooks, twisters, other cranks or cervical locks) Points often are not given for knee on belly Catch Wrestling(Thanks to cort for this) Catch As Catch Can- Basically, wrestling with submission holds. Pro wrestling, but real and with no striking. Catch is mostly prominent in Japan, though believe it or not, at one time people could wrestle in the UK too. Rules allow pins, all submissions and no striking. Catch has as deep a history as Judo or Jiu-Jitsu. Mitsuyo Maeda (Conde Koma) the guy who taught Judo/Jiu-Jitsu to the Gracies was a Pro/Catch wrestler in addition to a Judoka/Jiu-Jitsu player. Modern Pro wrestling developed from Catch Wrestling, often wrestlers would interchange scripted fights with real challenges. Classical Catch Wrestling basically became extinct in the early 20th century. There are a few old masters with legitimate catch pedigrees, and younger guys who trained under them, but most modern catch wrestlers are grapplers from other styles that have incorporated catch moves and choose to fight under the Catch banner. Since Catch wrestling was always kind of a catch all (pun!) for wrestling techniques, lineage and what not is really not a big deal to most Catch wrestlers. (EDIT: Since this is for newbies, I feel bad leaving a subtle joke people might not catch(pun 2x). Catch Wrestlers can be enormously catty and petty about lineage and names.) Notable legends: Farmer Burns, Ad Santel, Billy Riley, Billy Robinson, Frank Gotch, Karl Gotch, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Minoru Suzuki, Kazushi Sakuraba, Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Kiyoshi Tamura. Important historical figures who were no good in real competition- Yoji Anjo, Nobuhiko Takada. Modern well-known representatives: Kazushi Sakuraba, Kiyoshi Tamura, Josh Barnett, Satoru Kitaoka, Megumi Fuji. Judo: from: http://judoinfo.com and the Judo wikipedia article, with my own details added Judo is many things to different people. It is a fun sport, an art, a discipline, a recreational or social activity, a fitness program, a means of self-defense or combat, and a way of life. It is all of these and more. Kodokan Judo comes to us from the fighting system of feudal Japan. Founded in 1882 by Dr. Jigoro Kano, Judo is a refinement of the ancient martial art of Jujutsu. Dr. Kano, President of the University of Education, Tokyo, studied these ancient forms and integrated what he considered to be the best of their techniques into what is now the modern sport of Judo. Basically, Kano's genius was in taking all the various techniques and styles of Jiu-jitsu (the blanket Japanese term for open hand fighting) and creating a codified, scientific style. He junked anything that was too unsafe for daily practice, relied on strength or brutality, or just plain wasn't very good. He also really emphasized practicing his techniques on fully resisting partners, rather than relying only on staid, formal kata. Judo Competitors wear Judogis, thick kimonos intended for grabbing and pulling. The object in a judo match is to throw the opponent to the ground on his shoulder; to pin him to the ground principally on his back; or to force him to submit to a choke, strangle or an armlock. Any of these score ippon, immediately winning the match. Judo has three grades of score: ippon, waza-ari and yuko. An ippon literally means "one point" and wins the match. An ippon is awarded for (a) a throw that lands the opponent largely on their back in a controlled manner with speed and force; (b) for a mat hold of sufficient duration (twenty five seconds); or (c) for opponent submission. A waza-ari is awarded for a throw that does not quite have enough power or control to be considered ippon; or for a hold of twenty seconds. A waza-ari is a half-point, and, if two are scored, they constitute the full point needed for a win. Yuko is a lower grade of score, and only counts as a tie-breaker; it is not cumulative with other yuko scores. Scoring is lexicographic; a waza-ari beats any number of yuko, but a waza-ari and a yuko beat a waza-ari with no yuko. A fifteen-second hold down scores yuko. If the person who secured the hold down already has a waza-ari, they only need to hold the hold down for twenty seconds to score ippon by way of two waza-ari (waza-ari-awasete-ippon). Throws further lacking the requirements of an ippon or a waza-ari might score a yuko. So-called "skillful takedowns" are also permitted (e.g. the flying arm-bar) but do not score. Judo has about one rule for everyt 10th star visibile in the northern hemisphere, so interested parties can do their own research on specifics. List of notable Judoka(Thanks to Death Bucket) Jigoro Kano - founded Kodokan judo and standardized the ruleset Mitsuyo Maeda - brought judo to Brazil and taught the Gracies Masahiko Kimura - went to Brazil and challenged Helio, threw him about a billion times and eventually broke his arm with an armlock, making it even more significant when Sakuraba beat Royler and Renzo with the same armlock Gene LeBell - ragdolled Bruce Lee, literally made Steven Seagal poo poo himself, wears a pink gi and dares you to say anything about it Satoshi Ishii - Gold medalist 2008, the latest Great Japanese Hope, has an enormous head in MMA: Hidehiko Yoshida - uchi-mata'd everyone in the 1992 Olympics, choked Royce unconscious, fought Rulon Gardner in one of the dumbest matches ever Sanae Kikuta - won ADCC, founded the gooniest gym (Grabaka), is probably the most boring Japanese fighter not named Izuru Takeuchi Dong Sik Yoon - not really all that good at MMA, but he can do armbars and he's likable  Pawel Nastula - got thrown to the wolves like pretty much no one else, last seen getting punched in the dick a lot Manny Gamburyan - angry little bastard Roman Mitichyan - not a poosey Makoto Takimoto - gold medalist, got submitted by loving Cyborg Karo Parisyan - used to be fun to watch, now too busy taking painkillers and freaking out to be relevant some greasy human being - used to be relevant, now too busy having flashbacks of Misaki's shin caving in his face to do much meaningful in MMA Yuki Nakai - Seven Universities Kosen Judo champion, Shooto champion, had probably the most badass MMA moment ever when after getting his eye gouged out and fighting for almost an hour, he walked by Rickson Gracie screaming "Rickson, you're next!" SAMBO(Thanks to Mechafunkzilla): SAMBO! Sambo (sometimes spelled 'cambo') is an acronym for “SAMozashchita Bez Oruzhiya” or “self-defense without a weapon” in Russian. It was originally developed for and is still practiced by the Russian military. Its founding is generally attributed to Vasili Oshchepkov and Viktor Spiridinov, as well Spiridinov's student Anatoly Kharlampiev. Spiridinov was a wrestling coach with expertise in Greco-Roman wrestling, Russian folk wrestling, Mongolian folk wrestling and Japanese jiujitsu. Oshchepkov studied Judo under its founder, Kano Jigoro (for which he was later sent by Stalin to die in a gulag). Both men were commissioned by Lenin to develop a style of self-defense for the Red Army, and had teams of students which traveled abroad to study other martial arts. Many of these influences can be seen in aspects of sport and combat sambo: the jacket, called a kurtka (Judo), the shoulder flaps on the kurtka (to simulate the vest worn in Mongolian wrestling), and the competition mat (Western wrestling). "Sambo" competition comes in several flavors: Sport sambo - mostly practiced in Russia and eastern Europe, it is very similar to Judo competition. Chokes are not allowed, and only a short time is allotted for groundwork after a throw. Points are given for throws of varying success, and for pins of varying lengths. Matches can end early through either a submission, a large difference in points, or a "total victory" throw, in which the attacker is able to throw the defender onto his back while remaining on his feet. Combat sambo - sport sambo with striking on the feet and chokes. Sambo competition in the US generally differs from Russian sport sambo in that chokes are allowed, increased ground time, etc. Because there is no single overseeing organization, the rules vary. Sambo players with MMA success include Fedor and Aleks Emelianenko, Andrei Arlovski, Sergei Kharitonov, Oleg Taktarov, Igor Vovchanchyn, and Satoko Shinashi. To find a sambo school in the US, look here. Wrestling(thanks Mardragon): NCAA and the Olympics are different. Yes it is harder to win an Olympic (Greco-Roman or Freestyle) gold obviously, but it's also not the same kind of wrestling (folkstyle or collegiate) done in the NCAA. For years and years people have argued about why the United States hamstrings our Olympic hopefuls in international competition by making them wrestle a style in high school and college that isn't recognized internationally. Typically the collegiate wrestlers who are good try to transition to Freestyle wrestling and that takes a year at least to make the adjustment. Recently a couple of wrestlers have opted to skip wrestling in college and go straight to training for international competition most notably Henry Cejudo who is on the current U.S. Olympic team (Won a gold medal at the 2008 Olympics). Greco-Roman: Mostly upper body on the feet and mat. It is illegal to hold the opponent below the belt, to make trips, and to attack the legs while standing. You see more throws in Greco-Roman because the traditional defenses to most throws are out of play (hooking the legs or grabbing legs etc.) On the mat the man on top still can't attack legs and the man on bottom usually never fights to improve position because doing so may open them up to a potentially match ending throw. The U.S. usually struggles with Greco-Roman and has only won 3 gold medals in the sport (I would say two since Rulon Gardner won his medal on some bullshit rear end new rule but in the books it goes down on as a gold despite the fact that one of the greatest upsets in U.S. Olympic history happened because of a minor technicality which had not existed in international competition prior to those Olympics. If that rule wasn't in place Rulon would have lost the match two seconds after that call would have happened.). Freestyle: Allows the attacks on the legs in all positions. But some of the slick rear end poo poo that U.S. wrestlers pull in folkstyle would result in instant back points in freestyle. You can also lock your hands together from the top position whereas you cannot in folkstyle, please don't ask me to explain this further. Defense from the bottom position consists of laying there and trying to make sure your opponent doesn't flip you over. In international competition the U.S. has much more success in the Olympics (John Smith, Dan Gable, Cael Sanderson, Kurt Angle, etc.) Collegiate (folkstyle) wrestling: Emphasizes all different positions and it is typically more wide open in terms of moves than Greco-Roman or Freestyle. There is almost equal emphasis on standing positions as well as mat wrestling, and the huge difference from Freestyle and Greco-Roman really comes in when people are in the bottom position. In collegiate wrestling the man on bottom is encouraged (required) to try and improve his position either by standing and facing his opponent or reversing him. Also the top position is different from freestyle in that you are slightly restricted from doing certain things. On the feet everything is in play, takedowns, sweeps, throws etc. From a wrestling standpoint collegiate is a more "complete" wrestling style, meaning that there is a wider library of moves available, largely stemming from the bottom position's requirement to try and score rather then sit there and try to not be turned. There are also several moves in collegiate wrestling that are doable because of differences in scoring. Freestyle and Greco-Roman have several throws that are not legal in collegiate (full on suplex for one) and a series of moves from the top that are available due to the ability to lock hands. From a MMA point of view the broad generalizations would be that Greco guys would be good in the clinch (Randy Couture) freestyle guys would be good at take downs (GSP trains with the Canadian freestyle team), and collegiate guys would be like every wrestler you see that wasn't part of the Olympic team (huge list). So, there are the primary grappling styles. I hope we can use this thread to discuss grappling as participants and fans, and in an MMA context. Somebody fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Nov 24, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2011 21:22
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For Grappling novices I provide a crosspost from the MMA Q&A thread, explaining the basics of submission grappling (which is basically MMA grappling as well). Thank you to Grifter for doing most of the work. The first position in BJJ is called the guard.  This is usually referred to as "top guard" or "bottom guard" for the guy on the top and the guy on the bottom respectively. This is considered a neutral position BJJ but isn't neutral in MMA because the guy on top can punch the guy on bottom. However, the bottom fighter is still a danger to the top man and can create his own offense and end up submitting his opponent or escaping to a neutral or even advantageous position. Generally speaking, the fighters want to do a few things here. The guy on bottom either wants to work his way back to his feet, or he wants to do what's called a "sweep". A sweep is when the position is reversed so that the guy on bottom ends up on top. The guy on the bottom can also submit his opponent from this position, but that is usually hard to do in professional MMA and high level grappling tournaments. Closed guard is when the bottom man his his legs closed around his competitor's waste, open guard is when the top man has not passed either of his opponent's legs, but the bottom man has not locked his ankles behind the top man's back. There are numerous positions from open guard: X-guard, De la Riva guard, Spider guard to name only three. You do not see very much open guard in MMA, due to the striking and lack of cloth to anchor positions. However, in straight grappling competition, a fighter may spend the majority of his time defending or attacking the open guard. The guy on top wants to "pass the guard", which means to move to a position that is better for the top guy, which means controlling the bottom person's hips and legs. This brings us to the next position.  This is the half-guard. In the half the top fighter now has a better advantage. He is harder to submit and harder to sweep. He has almost passed the guard by working one leg free. He can also usually do more damage with punches because the guy on bottom has less control. The man on the bottom is not without hope though, there are submissions and sweeps that are possible from the half guard, and he still has a good chance to escape back to full guard or a neutral position. For a long time, half guard was considered a basic and transitory position in grappling competition. In recent years, however, competitors have begun exploring the possibilities and positions possible from both top and bottom half guard. Today, there are a number of succesful games based on the bottom half guard position and it can be used as a very potent offensive weapon.  This is side control. The top fighter has now completely passed the guard. This is bad for the guy on bottom, he really wants to escape or return to guard. The guy on top can do a lot of damage from here, see GSP v. Serra II. The top guy can also hit some submissions from here. There are many ways to hold side control, all major grappling styles have positions that utilize this position. In wrestling, gaining side control and forcing an opponent's shoulder to the mat is a pin and an instant victory. The guy on the bottom also has to be very careful to not let his opponent swing one leg over, which brings us to the next position.  This is mount. The top fighter can now throw down punches with a lot more intensity without worrying about getting caught in a submission or being easily reversed by the bottom man. The fighter on the bottom is in huge trouble, a lot of fights end here. The fighter on top may also have opportunities for submissions.  Finally there is back control. One fighter is on the back of the other. See how the fighter on the back has his legs wrapped around his opponent? This prevents the fighter in front from turning into his opponent. These are called "hooks" and you'll often hear the announcers talking about someone as saying "he's taken the back, one hook is in, he's got the other one in!" That's because having the hooks in makes it much harder to escape back control. From here the fighter in front is very vulnerable to submissions and striking. Those are the most common positions. There are 1,001 shades within these, and there are a couple positions that I'm not covering here (north and south, knee on belly) because those are usually transitory positions. Now let's look at the more common submissions. There are lots more than what I'm covering here. I'll also talk about the positions where these submissions are usually used, but a lot of them can be hit from all sorts of positions, especially if you include a gi. Armbar  This is one of the most common submissions. The arm is extended straight out, and the goal of the submitter is to get his hips as close to his opponent's shoulder as possible. From there he is able to use the leverage of his hips to hyper extend the arm. This can be hit from all kinds of positions but is most commonly done from guard (below) and mount (above). Interesting fact, virtually every style of wrestling ever invented features an armbar that looks pretty much just like the one you see today. From Indians in N. America to Greeks in the Peloponnese, it looks basically the same. If you need to break an elbow, this is how you do it. Triangle  This is one of the most common chokes in MMA. It is usually performed from guard. It works by trapping an arm inside the guard. One leg is forced against the chokee's neck, the other forces the trapped arm to apply pressure to the opposite side of the neck. This, like almost every choke in MMA, is a blood choke. That means the goal is to cut off bloodflow through the neck to the brain. This is much, much faster than a choke on the airway and will put people out in about 15 to 30 seconds most of the time, sometimes faster. Generally people will tap out before they go out. Googling around looking for a picture for this submission lead me to this blog, where you can go to see the triangle in action. Guillotine  This is the one exception to the blood chokes rule. The guillotine can be done as both. This one is pretty simple. The aggressor catches the other person's head by wrapping their arm around their neck from above, then cranks on it. This is usually finished by "pulling guard", which means to jump up and wrap the legs around the person getting choked. This lets the choker get a lot more force on his cranking. This can work because it cuts off bloodflow, or because it cuts off airflow, or simply as a neck crank. This also fails quite often where people slip out. The guillotine is most commonly done from none of the positions above, but instead from when someone tries to take down their opponent and gets their neck grabbed for their trouble. The Guillotine is seeing a bit of a revival in modern grappling. Competitors like Marcelo Garcia are revisiting the submission and experimenting with various positions that make the guillotine a more efficient, technical choke. Rear Naked Choke  Wrap one arm around their neck, with their throat centered on the elbow. Grab your own bicep on the opposite arm with the choking arm. Put the non choking arm on the back of their head. Win. This is done from the back position, and it is how most fights are won from that position. Done correctly, it is very very effective. For an idea of how little power this takes, see this video. Americana (and its cousin, the kimura)  This is generally done from side control, but it can be done from mount and possibly from the guard. Try this. Take your arm and raise it so that your upper arm is parallel to your shoulders. Raise your forearm and hand so that your elbow has a 90 degree turn. Like this __| Where the two lines are your shoulder and upper arm, then the line pointing up is your forearm. Now, keeping the upper arm and shoulder in line with each other, try to move your hand backwards. Notice how fast you run out of range of motion? If you try to move it further, you can feel your shoulder and upper arm lock up. Keep moving and it gets painful. Now imagine there's some giant sweaty dude on top of you. He has locked your arm in place and has his arm under yours to raise it from the mat, while cranking your upper arm in the direction it doesn't want to go. This has a bunch of names depending on which direction the upper arm is pointing and which martial art you come from - keylock, americana, chicken wing, figure four, ude-garami or double wristlock. There's a cool story as to how it came to be called the Kimura in BJJ. Arm Triangle  This submission may pop up any time a fighter is mounted, and the fighter on top manages to isolate the arm of his opponent. I'm not great at explaining this stuff, so here's a diagram.  The fighter on top will then rotate his body away from his opponent, this puts a crazy amount of pressure on the fighter on the bottom. It applies the same principles as the triangle (isolated arm, blood choke) but uses the arms instead. You will sometimes here it called "turning the clock" when the fighter rotates to apply pressure. Leg Locks: kneebars, heel hooks, ankle locks: Leglocks are generally considered the dirtier submissions. While chokes are surprisingly harmless and elbows/shoulders heal, leg locks can easily end careers and can often mean months or a year of surgery and rehab. That said, they are effective submissions and any fighter/grappler worth a drat needs to be aware of them. Knee bar:  Like an armbar, but for the leg. The Knee bar applies hip and body pressure to the knee in a similar manner to what is done to the elbow during an armlock. Heel Hook:  Describing this move is a bitch, so I will use wikipedia's description: A heel hook is a leg lock affecting multiple joints, and is applied by transversely twisting the foot either medially or laterally. The torsional force puts severe torque on the ankle, which in turn transfers torque to the knee. You know those horrible football/soccer plays where the players collide and a guy's foot points one way and his body goes the other? That is what the heel hook does, except intentionally. Ankle Lock:  The picture pretty much explains what is happening here. The ankle is trapped under the arm pit and the person arches their back, using the foot as a lever to put pressure on the achilles tendon which causes pain, and strains the ligaments on the top of the foot which will cause injury if person does not tap out. Omoplata: http://www.gamekapital.org/art_image/1243706230ufc-undisputed-2009-06.jpg (I know it is a video game but this picture had the best angle on what the hell is going on in an omoplata.) Omoplatas are probably the most difficult position to explain in all of grappling. Omoplatas are basically a kimura (which is itself an upside down americana) applied with the legs. By leaning forward, the grappler places great pressure on his opponent's shoulder and torque from the lever of the arm. You rarely see this in MMA, but it is fairly common in grappling, often ending up as a sweep rather than a submission. Because I am sure my explanation is not adequate, here is BJJ and MMA fighter Demian Maia showing the omoplata and explaining the principles behind it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB-NePIiguQ Gi Chokes  The jackets in Judo and Bjj are very thick, allowing people to use them to choke opponents by applying pressure to the neck and squeezing off blood flow. If you ever played that game as a child were someone pressed your neck until you fainted, then you know pretty much how it works. Gi, or jacket chokes can be performed from guard, side control, mount, and the back. There are many variations and small differences but the general idea is still the same. This of course is strictly a Judo BJJ move as MMA fighters are no longer allowed to wear kimonos. Flying Submissions Methodical, grinding pressure is the cornerstone of grappling. However, sometimes people swing for the proverbial fences and try to finish fights without going through every stage. These are the windmill dunks of grappling. Armbar!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih4LJ3e4Y2g Triangle!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM1OL7qQib4 Omoplata!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nilCbhtgBQw Guillotine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmdP1qTjGZY (wait, what were we talking about again) Those are all the common submissions. There are those that are less common but still happen - gogoplatas, compression locks, neck cranks as well as those that are nearly unique, like the Mir lock. or The Mr. Wonderful one arm Kimura. Most subs you see will be one of these, or a variation on one of these. Wrestling Takedowns 101 thanks to awkward_turtle some standard wrestling Moves. There are many more and many variations, but these are the most commonly used techniques. Double Leg Takedown: A shooting take down in which the offensive wrestler bends his lead leg to change levels and penetrates under the opponent, capturing both legs at the knee and placing himself under the hips. To finish he will drive on the back leg and turn the opponent around his neck to take him to the mat. Countered with the sprawl. Sprawl A defensive move used against double and occasionally single leg take downs, sprawling means dropping the hips and shooting the legs back and up. The defending wrestler uses this motion to clear his legs from an opponent's grip, and drive his hips down onto his opponent's head, stopping the forward motion of the shot. High Single: A shooting take down either on it own, or off a failed double. The offensive wrestler takes control of the opponents lead leg above the knee and lifts it from the mat to his own chest. From here there are multiple finishes, with the most common being to “hike” the leg and turn to drop the opponent to the mat. There is also "running the pipe", where the wrestler drops his weight and turns, forcing his opponent to spiral into the mat. High Crotch: A shooting takedown in which the wrestler penetrates under the opponent to gain control of one leg and the hips. Diverse finishes based on opponent reaction, including switching to the Double and taking the back. Notable because sprawling often does not help against a well executed high crotch and often actually adds to the amplitude of the throw. Inside Trip: A clinch takedown in which the wrestler wraps his opponents leg from the inside and drives toward the trapped leg. Headlock: A clinch takedown in which the wrestler encircles the opponents neck and arm with his own arms, performs and cross step, pivots, and throws the opponent with his hips as a fulcrum. Twisting Body Lock: A clinch takedown in which the wrestler achieves superior control over the opponents body, locks his hands, and lifts him from the mat and to the side to take him down. Arm Drag The offensive wrestler grips his opponent's wrist, then reachs with the other arm to control the opponent's upper arm, shoulder region. Then, the offensive wrestler, using his hips "drags" his opponent to him using this arm and wrist control. usually, arm drags are setups that lead to one of the other takedowns listed here. it is also used in bjj to begin numerous sweeps. This one is hard to explain in text, here is a link walking through the move: http://austinjiujitsu.com/tech/tech-detail.asp?id=2&name=Arm+Drag Judo Thoguh posted:Judo: Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Apr 27, 2011 |
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Feb 2, 2011 21:29
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Yes, I planned to increase my post's message count by subtly baiting any catch wrestlers into an argument.
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Feb 2, 2011 22:00
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gi means dress or clothing. The generic term: Keikogi means "practice clothes" or say Judogi for "Judo clothes" but since the word has basically been adopted into english we just say gi and know what it means. No idea why people write "GI", there is no reason to do that. Also while we're on the topic: anytime there is a -ka after a japanese martial art, it means XXX practioner or XXX player. Karateka Judoka Aikidoka. People use those terms since its quicker and more elegant than guy that does MA or whatever phrase you might use. Its like wrestling:wrestler::judo:judoka. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Feb 2, 2011 |
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Feb 2, 2011 22:27
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fatherdog posted:The only BJJ people that really get persnickety over lineage are Rorian and his boys, and that's because Rorian is a money-grubbing businessman who literally sued the rest of his family to prevent them from using "Gracie Jiujitsu" to describe their schools. Also people like the Machados who are not Gracies are seperate from that lineage and wouldn't use Gracie Jiu-jitsu, even if they were legally permitted. There is also an entire Bjj lineage that is independent from the Gracies: http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/oswaldo-fadda-facts-and-bio
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Feb 2, 2011 22:33
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I meant that they do not use the Gracie name, and would not even if Rorion didn't copyright it. It is called "Machado Jiu-jitsu" or "RCJ BJJ" when someone is trying to refer to that branch. I train under a Machado
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Feb 2, 2011 22:49
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Dante posted:The kimura in the picture should actually be a kimura and not an americana, there's no leglocks or compression submissions in the OP either. Got them reversed and had Kimura first, fixed. I was hoping someone else would jump in with a leglock section but I will do that and gi chokes and edit it in. Compression locks falls under the omoplata, N/S choke for things an average fan will not see very often. Unless someone wants to do an omoplata/compression lock whatever section, then I'll stick it in there. VVV alright, I'll put them in. Should be ready soon. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 02:03
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Editted the OP with new sub stuff and took out the incorrect Chinese. Is there a form of grappling that is not gay? Even the descendants of Ghengis Khan manage to twink it up.
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Feb 3, 2011 02:50
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Fixed the ankle lock section. I don't play with leglocks very often so my knowledge is only very general. Also, most important grappling videos. Only watch these if you want to take your game up 2 and a half levels almost instantly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS9vdoX3Ju0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esanf07wmaw Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 02:54
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I added a section mentioning the growth of the half guard game. When I wrote it I figured most people would be more interested in grappling from an MMA context. I will rework it to better include both. first person that asks me to add anything about 50/50 guard...dies. I debated using that picture, knowing the knee bar is not 100% correct. I decided to run with it because it's funny and gives the basic idea on what is happening. Anyone trying to learn how to actually do anything is not going to get it from pictures on the internet, no matter how correct they may be. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 03:00
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I was making a joke based on 50/50 being the new fad but I think specific positions should be left to discussion. I tried to keep the OP Grappling 101 to keep from overwhelming people. If Rickson and Roger don't do it, it is heresy. ligaments definitely tear in achilles locks. I know a BB who just recently got out of his ankle brace after being straight ankle locked in a tournament.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:15
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At one time Sumo was actually very much like wrestling/judo, they used similar throws and takedowns. I believe you could also win through pin and submission. I think really primitive Sumo might have even allowed some forms of striking but I'm not sure. I lost a lot of my old martial arts books so this is just based on memory Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 03:58
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Grifter posted:The original version I wrote was 100% oriented towards MMA, I'm glad to see that people have expanded on it now that it's being used in the grappling thread too. Yes, thanks again for your great starting point. It was much easier to just expand what you had than create a post whole clothe. I would rather not say which Machado I train under, in case I someday piss off an internet detective and they decide to hunt me for vengeance using my post history.
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Feb 3, 2011 17:10
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Actually when I was in college, the BJJ academy offered an intro class through the University which was insanely popular. Basically, almost every college guy in town knew how to do a guillotine and sit up sweep. We all laughed that soon, every bar fight would just be complete silence as everyone clinches up and tries to pull guard on each other, then people would tap, everyone would shake hands, and go home without a punch thrown or glass broken.
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Feb 3, 2011 17:56
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Bohemian Nights posted:Hooray! A new grappling thread. Yes. Stop. Leglocks are very dangerous and you should not push the limits with them. Particularly you should not be twisting or moving very violently. I once had a guy that was so frantic to escape he would have torn his own knee apart if I hadn't released his foot. It spun around in my armpit like a sprinkler head. A lot of the time a leglock will not actually hurt until something is torn or broken. Heel hooks are especially bad about going from no obvious discomfort to 6 months of rehab and surgery. You do not want this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce0m8Buc86o The popping sounds were his knee.
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Feb 4, 2011 19:14
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My friend moved to OKC and now trains at Lovato's. He said there was a big push for guys to go to Houston and compete. Lovato is also apparently all about competition and runs highly structured classes based around drilling and tournament ready fitness.
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Feb 14, 2011 04:43
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kimbo305 posted:I don't hear any, besides Silva's tapping on Imanari's leg? crank your audio or use headphones its hard to hear. As they roll it sounds like a bowl of rice crispy treats.
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Feb 14, 2011 17:06
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Just please do not use submissions 101. They are popular but riddled with errors or techniques done at a blue belt level. Funny story, my old instructor started training back in the mid 90's. He won most technical submission at a tournament. The submission: triangle choke. He told us that the blue belts in his academy now were basically on par with brown belts back then. His first trip to brazil, he said he couldn't hook flip old man white belts. This sport has really exploded. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Feb 15, 2011 |
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Feb 15, 2011 19:02
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Pooned posted:I would have loved to see him do that takedown on someone weighing 300 pounds. hell someone half that size with any kind of footwork would laugh at that. Quick, someone post that Hendo/Bisping take down .gif
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Feb 15, 2011 22:26
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I will: get fingers stuck in my butthole, stick fingers into other's buttholes, rub myself on dudes who have not showered in weeks, submit to what is basically torture to make weight, and wear a singlet, but I will never touch a woman I am not married to in the eyes of god.
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Feb 17, 2011 19:34
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Iowa is also a tough rear end wrestling state, so they didn't just show up and take a gimme.
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Feb 17, 2011 20:46
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http://www.bjjheroes.com/ This site has a pretty complete library of great bjj guys, past and present, with decent write-ups for them. A few people are missing but you will find 99% of what you want. PS Pablo Popovitch's family home was hit by that land slide near Rio a few weeks ago. His mom died and his dad was seriously injured. My instructor was actually friends with his older sister, it's a very sad thing they are dealing with. If you feel charitable, you can donate to his medical fund here: http://www.teampopovitchlive.com/?p=163
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Feb 18, 2011 16:48
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TwistedNails posted:I bought a new judogi and it arrived in the mail today its an Atama double weave, the jacket is too baggy (read they all are) and the sleeves are about an inch too long to compete in. Think i could shrink this down to a perfect fit? any tips? The pants fit amazing, great length and quality. if it's not preshrunk, it will probably shrink down to just about right. Usually, you lose about an inch or so. I do normal cold water wash and then the delicate dry to shrink my gis. No idea if that is the best/worst way.
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Feb 19, 2011 05:46
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I went to a podunk tournament and got to the finals. Foreshadowing their shittyness, One of the judges leaves the judging table to corner my opponent who is from their school. It was the biggest clown show ever. The ref just didn't award me two points for a sweep, and then, when my opponent "won" by 2 the loving judges ran over to congratulate him. When my team started complaining about the conflict of interest and poor judging, they pointed to their ref, who was "a black belt from brazil" as proof of their infallibility, which is a ludicrous argument on many separate levels. We packed up halfway through the day and just left, since there was no point in dealing with any of that. I've also been taken down by a wrestler, he then left my guard and motioned for me to stand up. Rather than him losing two points for disengaging the ref threatened to dock me two points for "stalling" when I didn't want to stand up. It really is not an enjoyable experience and a big reason why I don't really enjoy competition.
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Feb 20, 2011 21:22
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I've always thought giving two points (or some value, hell maybe only a single point) for establishing control on a turtled guy, IE seatbelt hold, referee position, etc. would help with people turtling up constantly.
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Feb 23, 2011 17:23
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HATE MONDAYS posted:People get hurt in wrestling, grappling is mostly about climbing between dudes legs and going to town Petition to change my thread title. Wear a mouthguard though, for real. Chipping teeth and what not are very painful and expensive, you will get used to having it in before a month is done, and it will save you a literal and metaphorical headache.
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Feb 23, 2011 21:03
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shizen posted:ah thanks for clearing some of that up especially the neck thing. We do a lot of those shoulder rolls for warm up and I am not that good at them. Also I get choked a lot and tense up instead of just tapping right away. Depending on your training time and personal ability: you will be "not completely retarded" in 6 months to a year.
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Feb 25, 2011 17:20
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Ryan Hall became a BB in like 4-5 years. It is really not that ridiculous considering the amount of mat time you get training 5-6 days a week, 2x a day. You also have mental factors, they have studied athletes/musicians/whatever and found that time thinking about a skill is almost equal to the time actually practicing it. Bj and Hall talk about being obsessed with jiu-jitsu and thinking about it basically 16 hours a day. It took me 3 1/2 years to get to purple, under a very stingy teacher, because I was in college and had the time/will to train and study bjj a poo poo ton, probably twice as much as I actually did or thought about anything else. I have 2 friends who basically did the same thing, which helped because I had training partners to drill and practice with basically as often as I wanted.
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Feb 25, 2011 18:11
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as an aside I wasn't trying to brag about that or anything, just pointing out that situations and opportunities are a real factor.
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Feb 25, 2011 21:53
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Grifter posted:This is actually possible to do (on someone on your back with hooks in). It almost happened to me when I was just starting out and it is very embarrassing. poo poo dude this did happen to me. You know how embarrassing it is to tap out with one of your hooks, from a guy's back? It comes from people showing white belts a simplified RNC, moving like its the macarena, exaggerating the arm movements. I make sure to show it to every white belt, and teach them how to set up the RNC the correct way: tight. So my shame will never be repeated.
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Feb 26, 2011 21:40
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Chortles posted:Supposedly GSP's claimed that BJ Penn's flexibility actually weakened his "thoracic cage," I guess something about his core, so GSP chose to just get in there and dig in/grind (in the clinch) during their second fight to help wear Penn out faster. GSP always has some insane physiologic theory for fights. I honestly cannot tell how much of it is snake oil and how much is actually true. Either way, I'd love for him and Jackson to put out a "theory of MMA" thesis.
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Feb 28, 2011 23:20
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Bjj also has a ton more people who do it as a hobbie, and therefore aren't early twenties D1 athletes. There are not many wrestling clubs or people who wrestle as a side activity once you get out of school. So, you see a more varied type of body because there are people who train three times a week all the way up to professional athletes. If you take a bjj sample limited to black/brown belts at a major competition, they would probably look fairly similar to wrestlers. Also, guys that aren't black holes of muscle can do fairly well in Bjj, more often than they do in wrestling where the rules favor more compact builds. Often, these guys are actually deceptively strong, they just don't look like body builders. Roger Gracie tore the sleeve off of Robert Drysdale's new gi, which is ridiculous.
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Mar 1, 2011 17:24
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J Wiggle posted:I just started taking BJJ, I go to my 4th class tonight. Some questions: 1) Pay attention in class, and ask this question in a year. This isn't a gently caress off answer, it's just that there is nothing anyone here can tell you that will matter. 2) Yes, for now you should try to escape, but don't be "that guy" and try to slam or toss people around, or do dirty things out of desperation. However, if your gas tank isn't up to par and spending 10 minutes fighting a choke means you have to sit out 2 rounds to recover, you are better off just tapping after a few escape attempts.
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Mar 1, 2011 17:42
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colonel_korn posted:My instructor is always preaching that you should breathe in really sharply once you have it somewhat locked up, so that your chest pushes him into the choke further. It's kind of weird but it's effective. it also reminds you not to hold your breath and gas out like a retard.
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Mar 2, 2011 16:37
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the yellow dart posted:Rolling with 13 year old kids who just got out of the kids class is the worst because you know when they get bigger from puberty and they become more coordinated they are just going to kick your rear end eventually. They are also so fast it is scary lots of the time. that's why you have to mind gently caress them now so they can't beat you later. Classic kung fu trick.
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Mar 2, 2011 22:49
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henkman posted:Yeah I'm not gonna try and pretend that I'm a grappling genius, just giving some advice on what works for me. I hate mount because if someone bucks you off you're almost always on the bottom. Side control might also be easier for me because I'm taller so I'm able to cover more area than other people I don't know maybe I'm just stupid and should try to work from mount more often who knows. Practice your control from mount, especially utilizing your length to hold people. There are a ton of little things that go into this, so ask a black or brown belt for pointers, and check out some of Roger Gracie's stuff online (he is the king of the tall man mount). Also, if you feel you're losing it, practice sliding back to side and then remounting, this is a great way to trap arms and set up chokes. I used to be the same way about mount, preferring, the side but was really encouraged to go back and work on it. I'm still figuring things out but my mount is getting heavier and I can really see the value of it.
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Mar 3, 2011 16:43
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Thermos H Christ posted:Really? People talk a lot of poo poo and resort to personal attacks in arguments, but I don't think that's a sign of actual animosity. I don't think I've ever seen anyone post something like "God cXb sucks" and I've definitely seen posts along the lines of "Why isn't cXb posting here any more?" I think he meant at his gym, which is not so weird because bjj people can be surprisingly catty. Also, I think it's totally different for CXB to do videos of ridiculous poo poo that is obviously ridiculous and for fun, versus a guy showing fundamental technique that is incomplete or wrong.
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Mar 11, 2011 17:17
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Oh, well people on SA are horrible people and that surprises no one. Also, you are bad and should feel bad. There are three submissions, collar chokes, armbars, and triangles.
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Mar 11, 2011 21:06
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doubles cause quite a bit of knee strain, it seems like most knee injuries involve shooting. I don't do standup much, but I don't really like looking for doubles when I do, because I can just feel all that knee pressure. Also, I am tall and long limbed, so shots are not exactly my natural realm.
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Mar 11, 2011 21:36
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Angora posted:Can someone post some good videos on opening a closed guard? That is one of those things where videos will not really help, because it is very nuanced and is really more about practice than knowing different techniques. Just keep trying what you know and you'll get there.
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Mar 12, 2011 02:39
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