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Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund
:siren::siren::siren: If you're a VTMB vet and are wondering what all the hub-bub is about, go to the second post for awesome Mod info! :siren::siren::siren:



What is Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines, and why does it have such a longass title?

Wikipedia posted:

Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines, abbreviated as Bloodlines or VTMB, is a computer role-playing game for Windows developed by Troika Games in 2004. Like Activision's Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption, Bloodlines is set in White Wolf, Inc.'s Vampire: The Masquerade universe also known as the World of Darkness (WoD), but it is not a sequel to the earlier game. The game allows the player to choose one of several different vampire clans and progress through the game according to the different strengths and weaknesses of the player's character, as in its paper and pencil role playing origins.

Although Bloodlines divided critics at the time of release, it retains a popular cult following. It is also notable for being the first game along with Half-Life 2 to use Valve's Source engine, which allows the game to be played from either the first-person or third-person shooter perspective. It is also Troika Games' third title and the last to be made before Troika closed down in February 2005.
Welcome to the popular cult following. All of the above is true, so the question is really, "why is there still a thread for this game, and a new one at that, over 5 years later?" Because it is awesome, that is why. "But if it was awesome, why did Troika go out of business, and why did it mostly flop?" you may be asking. Well the answer to those questions is threefold:

1- Activision sucks.
2- Valve screwed Troika over with a lame-o build of Source, and then refused to let them update it because they wanted HL2 to show off the Engine at full capacity.
3- Activision sucks.

So why is there yet another new thread, when the old one wasn't even that long? Well it was decided to make a new one in light of all the new mods available for the game, and get a real OP going. If you're looking for Mod info, skip straight down to the second post.


So where can I get this game?
Well it's available on Steam or Direct2Drive for the low price $20 USD, though it often goes on sale. If you're old fashioned or don't trust the Man with his digital distribution nonsense, you can find an original disc copy on Amazon for a retarded sum of money, or try to find it second-hand at Gamestop somewhere, but good luck with that. D2D is probably the best bet for someone trying to get in on it now, simply because they have it on sale regularly.

Bear in mind that if you get the disc version, it does not have the Official 1.2 patch built into it, so you have to download it separately and install it (link below) before you do anything else with the game. The Steam version has the patch built into it.

Since the game came out before Widescreen monitors were in fashion, it doesn't natively support widescreen resolutions. There is a fix, however, and it can be found below. If you don't like stretchy people, you have to activate the console and do this stuff:

Dominic White posted:

Create a shortcut to the game and add the command line tag '-console'
i.e. "C:\Vampire - Bloodlines" -console

Then, once you're in-game, bring up console in the menu buy hitting "~" and type:
r_anamorphic 1 - voila! True widescreen. Sadly, the HUD is slightly squashed (circles become ovals), but its a fair tradeoff.
This may be fixed in one of the later fanpatches, I'm not sure.
(It's not)


The Patch(es) Drama:
What are these patches we keep talking about? Well there is a whole long, dorky, and slightly hilarious story of the fan-patching for this game involving two rival groups, lots of angry name calling, a bunch of whining and huffy threats, and some other stupidity. You don't have to care about any of that crap. What you do have to care about is that the main fanpatch (the one that "won") is made by a slightly deranged and obsessive-compulsive weirdo named Wesp5. That is not to say it is a bad patch; it is, in fact, excellent. It just means that every 6 months or so, he will make some big announcement and roll out a new version of the patch which will move a candlestick in one area 10 inches to the left, or change which way an NPC is facing by 20 degrees. This is hyperbole, of course, but seriously, the guy is crazy about releasing updates, and often each one will have only minimal actual improvement changes, and the rest will just be poo poo he thought should be changed this time around. As such, some people have taken to playing different flavors of the fanpatch, and all of them are still available on his site, so at least he's not a fascist on top of everything else. No one compares notes on which patch they are using, or documents all the changed locations, because frankly that's stupid and a waste of time, so don't bother asking about that. Rest assured that you can enjoy the game fully with any version of the patch you're running, and Wesp has actually changed the patches to adapt to the fact that some people may not like all his weird little fiddling about.

When you DL the patch, there are 2 versions: Base and Plus. The Base version is ONLY bug fixes. Nothing is moved, no dialogues are tweaked, etc. If you want to play the game as Troika intended, this is the patch for you, and it's probably a good idea to play your first time with this patch. For the rest of us, there's the Plus patch, which has all of Wesp's little tweaks thrown in. None of them are gratuitous or nonsensical, and in fact many of them are pretty logical. It's purely up to you which you prefer. The link to Wesp's page is at the bottom of this post.

:siren:IF YOU PLAN TO PLAY WITH THE CLAN QUEST MOD:siren: - Do not install the fanpatch, it is already built into the mod. Don't install anything other than the official 1.2 patch and then go to the second post.

:siren:IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME PLAYING, JUST PLAY WITH THE WESP PATCH AND NOTHING ELSE.:siren:


Oh God I Bought The Game, What Should I Do With My Character?
The game actually has a pretty excellent tutorial mode, and it's highly recommended you build your first character yourself, not answer the questionnaire, though it may be a good idea to run through the questions first just to see what they give you, and then start over with a custom character and follow their theme. You put your points into the dots in the middle-left of the screen, and they affect your ratings in certain skills, which are listed on the right side. Each skill is a combination of an attribute and an Ability, so you will have to mouse over them and read the descriptions/see the highlighting to figure out what things raise what. While you may be familiar with the PnP source material and wish to play a beautiful and unique flower, you should definitely put some points into combat, because you will be fighting some stuff.
That doesn't mean you have to be a combat powerhouse. Far from it, actually, and depending on your clan, you may not need to put that much into combat skills at all, really (aka if you have Obfuscate). You can get by without any social skills, of course, but you will miss a lot of the nuance to the game, so you should probably pick ONE of the social skills and work on that one - each of the three have different applications and uses in the game. As a note, if you are playing the base game without mods, Seduction takes a ridiculous number of points to becomes useful, and even then it's only used in a handful of situations and sometimes depends on your gender, so you may want to skip it, which I am sure is crushing all your Anne Rice vampire sex dreams.

The Clans:
Clans are sort of like your character classes. Each clan has a different vibe and feel to it. Keep in mind that if you're using the optional Histories mods, each clan has clan-specific histories that actually can change based on gender, as well, so you should play around with those to see what your options are... most of them have pretty hilarious descriptions, as well.
  • Brujah: Angry fight the powah dudes, RAWR! They're the melee powerhouses. Great fun if you want to take baseball bats/swords/bush hooks/your fists to peoples' faces. They have a slightly higher chance to Frenzy because they've got so much angst. One of the easiest clans to play as your first time through. Disciplines are Celerity, Potence, and Presence.
  • Gangrel: Brawl combat, for people who might like to rip apart folks with their bare hands. They get the special Discipline of Protean. Disciplines are Animalism, Fortitude, and Protean.
  • Nosferatu: You look like Rosie O'Donnell's hemorrhoids, so prancing around the city in public is a great way to get Masquerade violations. When you first talk to people, they'll usually comment on your uggo face. Don't write them off because of this, the style of the whole game changes pretty drastically playing as one of these guys, probably should be saved for a more advanced playthrough. Has a special clan Haven. Disciplines are Animalism, Obfuscate, and Potence.
  • Toreador: You're a pretty princess! These are the guys you want to play as if you wanna play out that Matrix lobby scene. Disciplines are Auspex, Celerity, and Presence.
  • Malkavian: Hands down the best part of the game, and highly recommended to :siren:NOT:siren: to be played the first time through if you really want to appreciate them. 90% of all dialog in the game is changed as a loony Malkavian, and the vast majority of it is hilarious. They also have the special clan Discipline of Dementation, which can be used in conversations to hilarious effect. Definitely the best clan to play on your second playthrough of the game. Disciplines are Auspex, Dementation, and Obfuscate.
  • Tremere: I fire Magic Missile! These are the "mage" clan, though if you're expecting a robe and wizard hat, you're mistaken. The only clan that has access to Thaumaturgy, they also get their own special clan Haven (see below). The other easy clan to play as your first time through. Disciplines are Auspex, Dominate, and Thaumaturgy.
  • Ventrue: The only clan in the basic game that can Dominate people in conversation, which makes for some interesting solutions to many areas. You also can't feed on rats, because you're a snobby bastard. Disciplines are Dominate, Fortitude, and Presence.

What are these 'Disciplines' you keep going on about, because it sounds like this game is about Vampires and bondage?
Disciplines are the different powers that vampires have in the World of Darkness. In the PnP RPG the game is based off of, there are tons of them, and in fact there's another 6 clans, but only a few of those showup in this game, and only as NPCs and enemies. In this game, some of them have discreet powers at every level, while some just get better as you put more points into them. All of them cost blood to use in the basic game, and some skills will break the Masquerade, so keep in mind there's a keybind for canceling all your active Disciplines which you should use before you go wandering around o the street. Of the Disciplines you can use in this game, here's a quick rundown:
  • Animalism: Supposedly it's all about talking to animals, but in game terms you can stun enemies and summon animals to kill things for you. Often underestimated, if you're playing base it's actually one of the most powerful Disciplines in the game.
  • Auspex: Supernatural awareness and sight. No discreet powers, just scales with level. Mechanically, it raises your Mental stats which has a side effect of raising your firearms skill through the roof, so guns become extremely powerful while this is on.
  • Celerity: Probably the most over-powered Discipline in the game, it gives you super-speed. It doesn't seem like you're going much faster with each dot of it, but that's because the entire world goes into a crazy bullet-time mode, and you can zip around and do crazy poo poo like Jet Li in The One. Over level 1 it is NOT Masquerade Friendly.
  • Dementation: The power of CRAZY. A lot of the powers are very similar to Dominate, they just have a different style to them.
  • Dominate: Bending people to your will, it's another of the most powerful Disciplines in the game because of its highest level power, which makes entire groups of guys kill themselves. No, I'm not making that up, you can make people kill themselves.
  • Fortitude: Armored skin. No discreet powers. Vampires already do pretty well against bullets... with this power, they literally will bounce off you.
  • Obfuscate: Invisibility. No discreet powers, it just gets better and better. If you have it, you can basically ignore most of the combat skills after a certain point, because you can just walk around stealth-killing pretty much everything.
  • Potence: Super-Strength. No discreet powers. You can already smack guys across rooms, this just makes it even more hilariously ridiculous. It also scales in a ridiculous fashion so you can kill people in one hit.
  • Presence: Force of personality. No discreet powers. Basically it works as an Aura that debuffs all the enemies around you, making them easier to kill and in some cases, causing them to run away in fear.
  • Protean: Changing forms! You can get glowy red eyes, grow claws, and eventually turn into what amounts to a wolfman. Completely Masquerade unfriendly.
  • Thaumaturgy: Blood magic. Has a mix of ranged attacks as well as a really powerful Armor spell. It also has one of the more powerful disciplines in the game, but it only works on a single target, unlike Dominate or Animalism. It's a good jack-of-all-trades sort of power. Mostly Masquerade unfriendly.

Oh God I am Tremere But I Don't Have a Fancy New Haven/Pad Halfway Through The Game, What Gives!
The Tremere haven is comically easy to get screwed out of, which of course fucks you from being able to a) enjoy the best haven in the game, and b) get a rad +150% blood magic trinket. To get the Tremere haven you have to:
  • Be Tremere. Duh.
  • Be nice to Strauss. He is the guy in the Tremere Chantry in downtown LA. Don't piss him off, even though there are a ton of funny dialog responses to him ("Okay DAD, FINE WHATEVER YOU SAY!")
  • You need to NOT tell him that you are working for the Anarchs about the LA mission with the plaguebearers. Both Strauss and the Anarchs want you to investigate the plaguebearers, so pick up the quest from Strauss before the Anarchs, just to be safe.
  • You need to do the Gargoyle quest in Hollywood, but DO NOT tell Issac, the Toreador anarch Hollywood baron, that Stauss made the Gargolye. You also need to destroy said Gargoyle, not become its buddy. Talk to Strauss before you go to smash it.
Any other clan gets their new haven after the Elizabeth Danes ship mission, as long as you don't piss off the Prince too much before hand. Nosferatu get their rats nest in the sewer (which is actually nice since you don't have to load a separate level to get to it and everyone else gets theirs on the 4th floor of Skyline Apartments.

Why does everyone sound like they're alternatively underwater or talking into a large cast iron pot?
Turn off Environmental Audio.


Stores for each Hub:
Santa Monica - Trip's Pawn shop, Vandal's Blood Bank, and Mercutio later in the game
Downtown - Fat Larry's van (if you use Camarilla Mod, its location is moved to a more logical spot)
Hollywood - Red Spot Quik-E-Mart
Chinatown - TSENG!'s Place

Each store other than the Santa Monica ones has an armor upgrade, as well as new weapons.


Handy Links:
Official 1.2 Patch
Widescreen Resolution patcher Read the readme! It goes in your \Vampire\bin directory to work.
Wesp's Fanpatch Main page (Ignore the Voerman patches, and it also has a few mods here)
Main ModDB page for VTMB which has basically everything you could ever need, and is probably your best source of all other info.



Also, ducks are anaethema.

Fuzz fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jan 2, 2015

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Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund
So you wanna Mod Bloodlines, huh?

Well you, sir, are in luck! The modding scene for Bloodlines is an odd one in that it sort of didn't do anything for several years, and then all of a sudden it exploded. There are many mods out there now for the game, but here at SA we are really only focusing on one, because it's the only one worth half a poo poo:

THE CLAN QUEST MOD

What is the Clan Quest Mod, (CQM) you might ask? Well, to put it simply, it's a mod that actually adds in completely new quests, complete with voice acting for all 7 clans, as well as 2 extra quests for the more rear end in a top hat-ish Vampire players out there. They occur during gameplay and are interwoven into what's already there, in some cases actually tying into stuff you were already doing anyway. Thus far, all of us are impressed by it.

But to say the CQM is just a bunch of quests is incorrect, because it also includes several other mods under its hood, all of which are optional installations to merge into it. Below we will talk about how to install the mod, and give you a brief overview of all its parts, and where you can find more info about them.


INSTALLATION -

1- Grab the latest Install file from HERE on ModDB. As of this writing, the latest version is 3.1
2- Make sure to have a clean install of VTMB. Remember what directory you installed it to. If you got it off Steam, skip the next step.
2A- Install the Official 1.2 patch, found in the first post.
3- Run the Clan Quest Mod installer, and MAKE SURE you direct it to your \Vampire subdirectory of the directory you installed it in. If you installed it with Steam, it'll be in your SteamApps like any other game. The directory structure is important, otherwise it won't install properly.
4- Choose which version of Wesp's fanpatch you want, basic of Plus. We recommend Plus.
5- Choose which accessory mods you want to use.
6- Install and play the poo poo out of it. You will know you installed it correctly if you see "Clan Quest Mod" and 7 icons for each clan underneath the main title on the title screen. If they're not there, you did something wrong, so go back and figure it out.


Accessory mods? What are those?

CQM has several accessory mods. Many of them are just different character skins, however some of them actually completely change the gameplay and add their own things. We will discuss them all in detail, in the order you see them in the installer.

Gameplay Mods

There are 2 main gameplay mods. One is the Camarilla Edition and the other is the Companion Mod.

- The Camarilla Mod -
As of this writing, it's at v1.4. What does it add? Where to begin... the website will be better able to give specifics, but a quick listing:
  • Addition of continuous blood drain, so you have to feed regularly. You can adjust how fast it drains in a cfg file.
  • Adjustment of all the Disciplines to make them a little more varied, as well as balance them more for combat.
  • Adjusted weapon combat on top of what the fanmod does, to keep things interesting.
  • Added Blood dolls all over the place with new uses for Seduction, as well as adjusting the locations of many NPCs to make them a little more logical. (Fat Larry is a big one for this)
  • Tweaked player models to fix some clipping issues, as well as making the female Brujah and Gangrel skins actually look different. (new Female Brujah skin rules)
  • Adjusted armaments for a lot of the enemies to make the game more interesting.
  • Adjusted enemy spawns later in the game, to spruce up certain areas.
  • DJs in all the main clubs in he game, who let you change the music track for a dollar. There are also new music tracks.
You may say to yourself, "these changes sound like crap," and honestly at first glance, that's what many of us all thought as well. However, many of us have played with this and the Arsenal mod installed, and the difference in the game is night and day, and it just feels a LOT better all around. Enemies scale up not in hitpoints but in what kind of weaponry they pull out, so later areas are more dangerous but at the same time you're better equipped for them. In general, you have to use your disciplines more, which coupled with the blood loss makes hunting and feeding a regular past-time, but not an annoying one. You also HAVE to use your Disciplines regularly in combat just to survive, which is a nice change from basically walking through enemies by the second half of the game.

- Histories Mod -
This mod is actually available separately as an easy patch for the basic game HERE. What it does is add optional character histories at Character Creation, not unlike other old school RPGs like Arcanum. Depending on the History, they might change the order of priority for your Abilities/Attributes and thus let you change where your starter points are, add weird new rules on hos much exp it takes to raise stuff, or just straight up drop certain things to make others better. They're mostly for flavor, and I feel that even if you don't use any other mod, this one is a required mod, because it was originally meant to be in the game as Troika intended, it was just edited out at the last minute with a cfg file, I believe because there were still some bugs that needed to be ironed out. (they have since been fixed in this download, or using the Wesp patch)


UI/Music Mods

There are several of these and whether or not they're good is really hit or miss depending on your tastes. Some people have been upset by missing songs, others welcome the change. When combined with the Camarilla mod, you can intentionally change the music in clubs anyway, so I really didn't mind it. The Music Mod by martdms is a great addition, I thought, because it adds new ambient tracks to a lot of areas of the game, as well as changing a few mission areas that recycled the same track too often. Certain hubs like Santa Monica and particularly Hollywood have REALLY nice new original ambient tracks to them, so I think it's worth it.


Weapon Mods

You have two options here, and they are mutually exclusive again:

- Arsenal Mod -
This mod actually replaces many of the weapons in the game, along with adding a very large number of new guns to the game... so many that it's impossible to carry all of them at once, in fact. The weapons all have nice models from what I've seen, and some of them are actually a LOT of fun, like the grenade launcher and the electric baton. Keep in mind that if you use this mod, it will change enemy weapons too, which is surprisingly hilarious later on in the game when you run into a room full of guys that used to be pushovers and suddenly they've got grenade launchers and white phosphorus shotguns... it makes the game harder in a good way, most people feel. You will notice that the guy's site has loving terrible Engrish... what would possess someone to release a mod in English when they can barely speak it? I don't know. Rest assured that the version of the mod in the CQM has fixed weapon descriptions so they're not chock full of garbled Engrish, although a few weapons here and there fell through the cracks, like the Bloody Mace. The only real downside to this pack.

- Weapon Sounds Mod -
This mod I haven't tried out, but if you search it on YouTube you can see many videos by the author demoing the new sounds. In some cases they're nice, like making the pistols sound like they have more of a punch, but in other cases he used the wrong sound effect, most notably for the rifle, which has an M1 Garand firing sound, complete with the "ting!" afterward of the clip popping out. It's purely cosmetic and doesn't change anything else.


Custom Skins
There are a shitload of custom skins in this mod, too many to count. Depends on your tastes whether or not you will like them, and there are far too many to list. You can go HERE to see images of a lot of them, and really it's up to you if you ant to use them. These are the only part of the mod you can change after installation without loving up the game, so don't stress too much if you added some model in and it's total poo poo... just find it in the Vampire\materials\ subdirectory somewhere, and delete it. My personal list of recommended skins are:
  • Bradstreet Jeannette
  • Nines Un-Pimped
  • Raptor's War Form for Gangrel
Some people also like the Sexy Heather (which is a reskinned VV with new outfits) and the Nossie skins, but hey, up to you.

Want pics of the skins? Most of them can be found here, along with some extra info.





GRAPHICS/LIGHTING Mods

Really there's only one thus far, other than the widescreen patch:
http://eolmagazine.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/breathe-life-into-the-undead-vampire-bloodlines-transformation-guide/

Just found this while looking at Skyrim/DX3 mods. Your call on whether it really looks better, but I know I, for one, will probably try it out next time I run through this game, which probably won't be for another 6 months or so, or whenever the CQM dude puts out another edition with new maps in it and poo poo.

I have no idea where to get this "Ultimate Edition" the guide speaks of, and I wonder if the Steam version will suffice. I'm assuming it's just the version of the game with 1.2 pre-installed, but I feel like the rest of the guide is tech-savvy enough to know that, so hell if I know.


Sie posted:

Same. Far too many of the ENB/ReShade/SweetFX presets enable needlessly flashy options that do more to harm image quality than enhance it. That "Director's Cut" one is hideous and makes roadtextures look like they have veins.

So like yourself, I took to making my own to get rid of the game's washed out look and make it all look a bit colder. I uploaded it at the SweetFX DB should anyone want to try it.




HOLY poo poo, A MAP EDITOR!

Upmarket Mango posted:

So check this:

Those wily Russians have been working their voodoo magic and have thrown together an SKD. That's right, the holy grail of VtM:B modding. I haven't given it a go yet (apparently it doesn't work with the Steam version of the game at the moment) but you can create new maps, link them to existing levels, add objects, NPC's, etc. Although it is still very basic, it's still under development.

:siren:DOWNLOAD:siren:


Original thread:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/vampire-tm-bloodlines-47/vampiresdk-118307.html

Thread by Wesp on it. Contains some useful information on using the SDK.
http://66.172.38.175/forum/index.php?topic=5797.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePoB3d2NU_o

Fuzz fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Aug 2, 2016

OSheaman
May 27, 2004

Heavy Fucking Metal
Fun Shoe
Seriously if you're reading this thread and haven't played this game yet then do yourself a favor and do it. The game has aged surprisingly well and is, in my opinion, one of the best western-style RPGs ever made, complete with great writing, top-notch voice acting, a fun story, exquisitely well-crafted dungeons (including one early on considered by many people to be one of the "scariest" dungeons ever made in a game), and tons of sex and violence to satisfy your addled gamer mind.

Manos del Sino
Apr 12, 2004

Original Pony
Soiled Meat
This is still one of the best RPGs ever made. I just wish combat wasn't so clunky.

A tip for people who want to play the game as a shooter:

Your accuracy and handling of firearms is governed by two stats (it's been a few years but I think they are Firearms and Perception,) which combine to give you a score out of 10 to determine how well they respond in-game. What this means is that if you want to play the game like a shooter, you need to maximize those two stats right away (you can even cheat yourself the experience to do it.) At 10/10, the game behaves like any other FPS and you can rely on ranged weapons to hit where you're aiming them, where otherwise they are very, very bad.

TehGherkin
May 24, 2008
I've been playing through the game with the Clan Quest mod, nearly finished it and I'm raring to start a Tremere playthrough when I'm done, but I also want to use the arsenal mod that adds a ton of weapons.

Do you think it'd be okay to just install the mod again over the mod except tick the Arsenal box this time, or should I do like a fresh install? (I hope not)

OSheaman
May 27, 2004

Heavy Fucking Metal
Fun Shoe
Give it a try. If it works, great! If not, well you were going to have to do a fresh install anyway.

Hostile Rabbi
Jun 25, 2005

by Ralp

TehGherkin posted:

I've been playing through the game with the Clan Quest mod, nearly finished it and I'm raring to start a Tremere playthrough when I'm done, but I also want to use the arsenal mod that adds a ton of weapons.

Do you think it'd be okay to just install the mod again over the mod except tick the Arsenal box this time, or should I do like a fresh install? (I hope not)

It would probably be safer to do a fresh install. I know the CQ mod installer won't let you install mods that conflict with each other (the weapon sound mod and Arsenal do I think), and it won't let you modify a previous install. You might be ok if you didn't install the weapon sound sound mod.

But yeah, this is probably one of the best RPGs ever. The ending sequences are pretty disappointing, but almost everything else before that is pure gold.

Gladi
Oct 23, 2008
Bright day
So where is that awesome mod info?

Hostile Rabbi posted:

But yeah, this is probably one of the best RPGs ever. The ending sequences are pretty disappointing, but almost everything else before that is pure gold.

Yeah they suck pretty badly. At least outro is good enough to cheer a person up afterwards. (unless you are an idiot)

Pope Guilty
Nov 6, 2006

The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.
You know, the thing that always gets me about Bloodlines that sets it apart is the acting. When you talk to somebody in Deus Ex, Oblivion, Fallout, or whatever, they stand there and stare at you. The Bloodlines characters actually act. Prince LaCroix makes grandiose gestures with his hands and looks down his nose at you, Damsel bares her teeth and assumes an aggressive stance when she's angry, Velvet lowers her head and looks up through her eyelashes at you, Beckett smirks (except in one case, where he's visibly shaken), hell, Chunk sits and stands like a fat guy. This attention to body language makes the characters actually seem like animated characters and not just a clunky interface for a dialogue system.

The other thing is the setting and mood. The Old World of Darkness is one of the most thoroughly fleshed-out fictional settings ever created, with several hundred books released over the span of thirteen years. Troika has clearly familiarized themselves with the setting, because top to bottom, the world of Bloodlines feels like the OWoD. From the more-crass-than-usual pop culture to the pervasive crime and homelessness and the fact that there's always a bunch of people out on the streets, it just plain feels like walking around in that setting.

OSheaman
May 27, 2004

Heavy Fucking Metal
Fun Shoe
Chunk rules.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!

Pope Guilty posted:

You know, the thing that always gets me about Bloodlines that sets it apart is the acting. When you talk to somebody in Deus Ex, Oblivion, Fallout, or whatever, they stand there and stare at you. The Bloodlines characters actually act.

Not only that, they actually show their mood on their face depending on how you talk to them. If you say mostly friendly or neutral things they'll look nice and approachable, but if you mouth off to them their face starts to reflect how irritated they are... and then there's Damsel who's pissed off no matter what you say.

I think the Source engine is partly to thank for the believable facial expressions, although I think Troika used the engine quite a bit better than Valve.

On an unrelated note, I can't believe how high the price is for a disc copy of VtM: Bloodlines. If it's out of print I could see it going for $30 or something but not $50+, and sure as poo poo not $250 as a "collector's item". Who would actually buy a physical copy anyways, when you can download it online for cheaper and not have to swap three discs? I still have my original boxed copy and I'm not going to be one of those idiots.

Heavy neutrino
Sep 16, 2007

You made a fine post for yourself. ...For a casualry, I suppose.

OSheaman posted:

exquisitely well-crafted dungeons (including one early on considered by many people to be one of the "scariest" dungeons ever made in a game)

I agree with the text in parentheses but otherwise the dungeons in this game are atrociously long and, with the exception of the first one, overstay their welcome halfway through their length, if not earlier (gently caress you, sewer level).

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!
Maybe it's just me, but I actually thought the Tzimisce mansion from later in the game is a lot scarier than that other dungeon. I mean, in one you've only got a haunted hotel but in the other you've got a mansion whose interior is made entirely out of flesh and body parts. I guess you could argue that the earlier dungeon has more "atmosphere" but the implied brutality surrounding the later dungeon makes it more horrifying. Plus there's an actual, physical threat and not just a bunch of spooky stuff going on.

I mean, you're a vampire... what could you possibly fear from the ghost of a serial killer? Tzimisce are terrifying, and pose a pretty drat big threat even to other vampires.

King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 5, 2011

Rap Game Goku
Apr 2, 2008

Word to your moms, I came to drop spirit bombs


Tewratomeh posted:

Maybe it's just me, but I actually thought the Tzimiszce mansion from later in the game is a lot scarier than that other dungeon. I mean, in one you've only got a haunted hotel but in the other you've got a mansion whose interior is made entirely out of flesh and body parts. I guess you could argue that the earlier dungeon has more "atmosphere" but the implied brutality surrounding the later dungeon makes it more horrifying. Plus there's an actual, physical threat and not just a bunch of spooky stuff going on.

I think the physical threat in the latter mansion is why people rank it lower. The horror is all in your head and you build it up to be so much worse, jumping at shadows and whatnot.

\/\/ ok, you might too then ;)

Rap Game Goku fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Mar 5, 2011

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


^^^
yep

Athenry posted:



I agree with you, but you might want to spoiler that last part.

Shalebridge Cradle fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Mar 5, 2011

Blarticus
Dec 7, 2004

And maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or for anyone else... I don't know.
But I do know that, as long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves.
hmmmmmmmmmm was promised awesome info and it just says "Reserved for Mod info." way to make my weener droop games forum

Habits
Feb 25, 2008


Assume an accursed shape
cleanse through purity within

Blarticus posted:

hmmmmmmmmmm was promised awesome info and it just says "Reserved for Mod info." way to make my weener droop games forum

Maybe we lack high enough levels of Auspex to see the Obfuscated post.

ZackHoagie
Dec 25, 2007

now eat him.
Does this have ME1/Fallout/Alpha Protocal style "Dicerolling behind the FPS" stuff going on? This might make or break me finally playing this.

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


ZackHoagie posted:

Does this have ME1/Fallout/Alpha Protocal style "Dicerolling behind the FPS" stuff going on? This might make or break me finally playing this.

Yes, damage numbers pop up and everything. Its not like alpha protocol, the shooting handles like an FPS you're just less effective at lowers skills. Same with sneaking, its useless at low skills and drat near game breaking maxed out.

ZackHoagie
Dec 25, 2007

now eat him.
I'm talking more "what the gently caress do you mean I didn't hit him I shot him in the loving chest" things, unless we're on the same page here.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!

ZackHoagie posted:

I'm talking more "what the gently caress do you mean I didn't hit him I shot him in the loving chest" things, unless we're on the same page here.

Yes, for guns you can miss sometimes even at point-blank unless your firearms skill is up high enough. With melee weapons or bare fists your hits will register every time, and any projectile spells are a guaranteed hit as well.

It's not a FPS, if that's what you're asking. It's an RPG that just happens to have the ability to shoot in first-person if that's your thing. You're not guaranteed to hit anything unless you have maxed-out ranged weapon skills... although I think distance is a factor as well.

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


Tewratomeh posted:

Yes, for guns you can miss sometimes even at point-blank unless your firearms skill is up high enough. With melee weapons or bare fists your hits will register every time, and any projectile spells are a guaranteed hit as well.

It's not a FPS, if that's what you're asking. It's an RPG that just happens to have the ability to shoot in first-person if that's your thing. You're not guaranteed to hit anything unless you have maxed-out ranged weapon skills... although I think distance is a factor as well.

I haven't really had guns miss point blank, they just start off super inaccurate. The crosshairs show your accuracy, but without any skill points you'll have trouble hitting any thing thats not standing next to you.

jaffyjaffy
Sep 27, 2010
I promised myself that I'd actually play this game over spring break, However, I am unsure as to what should I build for Tremere. I've heard that Blood Salvo and Blood Boil really aren't that amazing, and I originally went for the perk that gave you the +1 in Thaumaturgy, however I'd bet there is a better choice for that.

Any help would be amazing, really.

Heavy neutrino
Sep 16, 2007

You made a fine post for yourself. ...For a casualry, I suppose.

jaffyjaffy posted:

I promised myself that I'd actually play this game over spring break, However, I am unsure as to what should I build for Tremere. I've heard that Blood Salvo and Blood Boil really aren't that amazing, and I originally went for the perk that gave you the +1 in Thaumaturgy, however I'd bet there is a better choice for that.

Any help would be amazing, really.

From memory, all you really need is the armor skill and the skill that stuns everything in an AoE forever (it's completely overpowered because it will also stun bosses, unlike most specials).

OSheaman
May 27, 2004

Heavy Fucking Metal
Fun Shoe

Heavy neutrino posted:

I agree with the text in parentheses but otherwise the dungeons in this game are atrociously long and, with the exception of the first one, overstay their welcome halfway through their length, if not earlier (gently caress you, sewer level).

Sewer level is very bad and the (endgame spoiler) Kue-Jin level is a bit simplistic, although short but I think those two are really the exception. Grout's mansion, the whole Hollywood Tzimisce storyline, all of Chinatown, the stealth missions, even the warehouse is pretty fun.

jaffyjaffy posted:

I promised myself that I'd actually play this game over spring break, However, I am unsure as to what should I build for Tremere. I've heard that Blood Salvo and Blood Boil really aren't that amazing, and I originally went for the perk that gave you the +1 in Thaumaturgy, however I'd bet there is a better choice for that.

Any help would be amazing, really.

Your physical stats being capped at 4 means you're never going to be the world's greatest melee fighter. Blood magic is tactical and not really great for fast and easy killing, the main exception being blood purge, which will save your rear end if enemies get too close. I would get good at guns to supplement my raw killing power. You probably aren't going to be super-social for a long time but fortunately you can dominate sometimes in conversation so don't worry too much about persuasion/seduction/intimidate.

Chinaman7000
Nov 28, 2003

Heavy neutrino posted:

From memory, all you really need is the armor skill and the skill that stuns everything in an AoE forever (it's completely overpowered because it will also stun bosses, unlike most specials).

I was wondering if I chose the OP class or not, and now I am happy that I did.

jaffyjaffy
Sep 27, 2010
Is there any time when picking a history actually works out in your favor, or is it just based on your personal play-style?

Pope Guilty
Nov 6, 2006

The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.
The Eldritch Prodigy history for Tremere is ridiculous.

Vakal
May 11, 2008
I never played the PnP vampire games, but after loving Bloodlines I picked up the clan novels a few years back.

The storyline is a little disjointed since the 4 book set is actually like 12 separate books that were cut up and then placed in chronological order.

Still a fun read though.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.
I just finished playing this game for the first time ever earlier this week. Went through it as Tremere, and yeah, the whole blood purge thing is rather absurd.

Debating whether I should mess about with clan quest/camarilla edition type stuff before I do the mandatory (or so I'm told) Malkavian playthrough.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

CaptainPsyko posted:

I just finished playing this game for the first time ever earlier this week. Went through it as Tremere, and yeah, the whole blood purge thing is rather absurd.

Debating whether I should mess about with clan quest/camarilla edition type stuff before I do the mandatory (or so I'm told) Malkavian playthrough.

You should.


Sorry for the delay on the second post, should go up shortly. Had an RL emergency I had to take care of.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

CaptainPsyko posted:

I just finished playing this game for the first time ever earlier this week. Went through it as Tremere, and yeah, the whole blood purge thing is rather absurd.

Debating whether I should mess about with clan quest/camarilla edition type stuff before I do the mandatory (or so I'm told) Malkavian playthrough.

Definitely. The rest of the game feels kind of bland after playing a Malk. Especially if Malk is your first playthrough (like me)!

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf
Glad people are still talking about this game. As far as I'm concerned everyone needs to play this game and there should continue to be a thread about it forever for that purpose.

Last time I was impressed by the overall feel of game so much was a long time ago. The voice acting, the style of poo poo, the overall atmosphere was loving fantastic. Which is good because I felt that most of the combat was pretty bad. Overall I played it the same way I did Planescape Torment, using cheats every now and then. Also much like Planescape the ending was one of the most satisfying payoffs I've felt in a game.

The game rules and I almost didn't try it out because of vampires :rolleyes:

edit: drat those mods about chaning combat and new guns sounds pretty cool

Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Mar 5, 2011

King Trite
Aug 16, 2007
A phrase that loses power due to repetition or overuse
I guess it's time to re-install this game again. I've never modded the game beyond the unofficial patches so this should be a fun little adventure. Big thanks to Fuzz for the excellent write up.

Seriously, if you haven't played this game yet, play it. It's easily worth $20 on Steam, even today.

NeurosisHead
Jul 22, 2007

NONONONONONONONONO

Captain Beans posted:

Glad people are still talking about this game. As far as I'm concerned everyone needs to play this game and there should continue to be a thread about it forever for that purpose.

Honestly, as good as this game was, and as super spergy as all of us OWoD fans are, this thread will exist forever.

Adraeus
Jan 25, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

quote:

Valve screwed Troika over with a lame-o build of Source, and then refused to let them update it because they wanted HL2 to show off the Engine at full capacity.
That's really not how that went down. Valve actually did nothing wrong.

Tiramisu
Dec 25, 2006

Hey, where did you go!? Do you really dislike seeing my face that much!?
Yeah, I love Troika's games, but they really were all buggy messes with great ideas. The character interactions in Bloodlines were fantastic, though. It's both impressive and sad to go from the talking heads of Bethesda games and the stiff marionettes in Bioware games to characters with distinctive full body animations in Bloodlines.

Also, you might want to take out that note about the game being on sale frequently. As far as I know, it's been on sale once since it's been on steam. Instead of waiting for a sale that'll never come, people should really just pick up the game at $20.

NeurosisHead
Jul 22, 2007

NONONONONONONONONO
It's the best $20 I have ever spent on entertainment.

Gladi
Oct 23, 2008

Chinaman7000 posted:

I was wondering if I chose the OP class or not, and now I am happy that I did.

In Vampire: Bloodlines all clans are overpowered, some are jsut tad more overpowered than others. Not that it rally matters in a single player game.

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Happy Bear Suit
Jul 21, 2004

For anyone who enjoyed Deus Ex, I highly recommend VtMB. It's like DX but instead of super-powerful AI constructs its about super-powerful ancient vampires.

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